Guild Wars 2

The Ranger’s Hunter’s Shot on the longbow should always stealth. It’s currently one of the most unreliable skills the Ranger has, since it only stealths if it hits an enemy. Which means it won’t stealth if:

• projectile reflected (can stealth the enemy instead)
• projectile block
• aegis
• blind
• block
• evade
• obstructed
• out of range
• miss

So I propose 3 possible solutions:

1. Make Hunter’s Shot stealth the moment the projectile is destroyed. So, both if it hits the enemy and in any of the situations listed above.
2. Remove the damage from Hunter’s Shot and have it stealth-on-use rather than stealth-on-hit. This way the hit won’t break its own stealth. Then, to make sense of the hit, add a short non-damaging condition: blind, weakness, vulnerability, cripple, immobilize, chilled, fear, stun, daze, etc
3. Hunter’s Shot doesn’t have to be a “shot” animation anymore. It doesn’t even do half the damage of Long Range Shot at short range. It also doesn’t cause vulnerability anymore and the swiftness to the pet has never required a hit.

edit: 3rd solution added.

My wishlist is that hunter’s shot only stealths and has a single powerful shot that replaces hunter’s shot when stealthed. This way, when I interrupt someone with point blank shot, I have a powerful skill to make use of moment of clarity with. Currently, the only skill I can effectively follow up an interrupt with is maul on the gs and that is surprisingly hard to land, even after a stun.

I’d much rather just speed up the projectile/make it usable in 270 ° frontal cone, remove useless swiftness and add Haste for the duration of HS’ stealth.

Bam, more rewarding, easier to land in combat, counterable, allowing for true repositioning.

No. If you can’t land it, don’t reward it.

It’s already easy enough to land (I actually have a 100% hit rate with the skill so far in PvP and WvW). No reason to make it braindead.

It’s easy to land with a decent reward if you do. It also gives good counterplay options to your opponent. Leave it as-is.

you can’t freely get a stealth from just pressing a button on a weapon skill.

on a side note, the idea of hunter’s shot having a stealth skill alternative is interesting. the only thing ranger gets from stealth is repositioning and remorseless, and hunter shot is the one stealth skill in the whole profession (camouflage on a GM trait that no one takes doesn’t count).

BrunoBRS.5178:

(camouflage on a GM trait that no one takes doesn’t count).

It’s actually a master trait and a lot of people take that for whatever reason.

Dirame.8521:

BrunoBRS.5178:

(camouflage on a GM trait that no one takes doesn’t count).

It’s actually a master trait and a lot of people take that for whatever reason.

goes to show how much i pay attention to it. still a crappy trait though.

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

Rym.1469:

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

to paraphrase myself on another ranger thread:

people should stop complaining that the uncontested king of mobility in the game can move closer to you faster than you can move away from them.

Can we do this for cnd as well?

BrunoBRS.5178:

Rym.1469:

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

to paraphrase myself on another ranger thread:

people should stop complaining that the uncontested king of mobility in the game can move closer to you faster than you can move away from them.

If the game cannot reward for good usage of your movement, cooldowns and abilities because someone has to have no mobility counter and non-telegraphed gapclosers requiring absolutely no aiming or thinking…..

Why even bother with creating ranged weapons?

Especially when you create one requiring effective kiting and gap making to be used with success.

Again, this is a great spot to add skill to the ranger, make sure they don’t miss your most important skill that is stealth.

Rym.1469:

I’d much rather just speed up the projectile/make it usable in 270 ° frontal cone, remove useless swiftness and add Haste for the duration of HS’ stealth.

Bam, more rewarding, easier to land in combat, counterable, allowing for true repositioning.

This. To be honest my success rate with hunter’s shot is around 70%, but that can go up or down depending on the situation…. 1v1 (though I rarely 1v1 with LB LOL) it’s a lot harder to land than in a group skirmish in WvW. Haste on proc would be great and would provide that element of mobility to the longbow. Fits in well with the lore, too. Devs please take note!

Bryzy.2719:

Haste on proc would be great and would provide that element of mobility to the longbow. Fits in well with the lore, too. Devs please take note!

please tell me how Haste (i guess quickness is actually meant) provides mobility again?
and why exactly does it fit the lore?

edit: ah, well that makes a lot more sense now, thanks!

RashanDale.3609:

Bryzy.2719:

Haste on proc would be great and would provide that element of mobility to the longbow. Fits in well with the lore, too. Devs please take note!

please tell me how Haste (i guess quickness is actually meant) provides mobility again?
and why exactly does it fit the lore?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_with_Air

Haste like this.

I agree with the OP. As a reactionairy skill that you use once the target has already attacked you and put any movement impairing skills on you, the stealth is meaningless.

Even if you use it proactively before you’re snared, it’s of limited real value because the class has no mobility skills to use that compliment the stealth. The only real option is to swap weapons and use their movement skills to flee. But if you do that you’re left in a very poor weapon option for 10 seconds that likely has 0 traits supporting it.

I’d agree with the counterplay argument if the skill wasn’t instant cast and the projectile was easy to see. But there is no counter play to this other than random dodge rolls in hopes you get lucky. Truthfully the only counterplay you ever see against a Ranger is running through them to avoid as much LOS as possible because every weapon is built the same way with instant cast abilities and no telegraphs.

And lets also be honest here… the Ranger should be the fastest class in the game. Thieves should still have their incombat mobility which they have. But straight up movement? That’s the Ranger’s expertise. Or at least it should be. Certainly not a Warrior. One of eleventy billion things ANet has gotten wrong with this class.

Rym.1469:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Rym.1469:

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

to paraphrase myself on another ranger thread:

people should stop complaining that the uncontested king of mobility in the game can move closer to you faster than you can move away from them.

If the game cannot reward for good usage of your movement, cooldowns and abilities because someone has to have no mobility counter and non-telegraphed gapclosers requiring absolutely no aiming or thinking…..

Why even bother with creating ranged weapons?

Especially when you create one requiring effective kiting and gap making to be used with success.

again, that’s only a problem if you’re already engaging the guy at close quarters, AND you’re engaging the guy that is designed around being the most mobile class in the game. of course you’ll have a hard time kiting a thief, the thief by design is hard to kite.

Rym.1469:

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

Not if you’re running GS or Sword.

Dirame.8521:

Rym.1469:

Hunter’s Shot doesn’t allow for repositioning in the current form. The distance you can make by staying in LB and just running for whole duration can be easily gapclosed with thief spamming one button direct teleports or one of Warrior’s leaps.

Not if you’re running GS or Sword.

The problem with swapping weapons is if you’re using LB, chances are you went 30 marks. After you invest enough points to get enough condi cleanse to stand a chance, you’re out of points meaning your off-hand weapon has limited/no support from traits. So you’re in LB, swap to GS to get away/reposition, and then… sit there for the remaining 10 seconds because you can’t swap back.

A Fast Hands trait really would have solved the overwhelming majority of issues for power Rangers

I haven’t used hunters shot in a while ( traded bow for mh axe) but I found quite often while zerging even if it worked it would often be instantly removed…. I assume either from some lag in server client damage tracking or a proc or a pet attack.

In my experience Hunters is very unreliable and had no problem letting it go.

Kilger.5490:

I haven’t used hunters shot in a while ( traded bow for mh axe) but I found quite often while zerging even if it worked it would often be instantly removed…. I assume either from some lag in server client damage tracking or a proc or a pet attack.

In my experience Hunters is very unreliable and had no problem letting it go.

piercing arrows? :P

or barrage/a trap is still ticking.

Also consider that Hunter’s Shot has a grandmaster trait dedicated to it: Remorseless
Hunter’s Shot is the only skill that can trigger Remorseless. I believe that is already reason enough to make it 100% reliable.

It would be great to be able to use Hunter’s Shot on the run, so with your back is towards the enemy, or when the target went into stealth.

The Thief, Mesmer and Engineer all have access to on-demand 100% reliable stealth, but not the Ranger. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for it to be reliable.

As for the skill itself, I don’t care about the hit at all. It doesn’t even do half the damage of Long Range Shot at short range (even pre-buff). The shot also provides swiftness to the pet, but that always works with 100% reliability because it doesn’t require a hit. I wouldn’t mind it if the animation changed and it was no longer a “shot”, because it really doesn’t have to be anymore. It used to give 10 stacks of vulnerability to the target, but that was moved to Rapid Fire when the stealth was introduced.

So let me summarize:

• a grandmaster trait (Remorseless) depends on its stealth to work
• of all classes with stealth, only the Ranger can’t stealth reliably on-demand
• the whole skill is basically useless for anything but providing stealth.

No. It allows for some counter-play (which is always a good thing,) and it’s really not that hard to hit. Landing a Point Blank Shot pretty much guarantees a Hunter’s Shot if you can confirm that your PBS hit. And this is assuming this is a 1v1 where each player is focusing on the other. In a group fight or against anything with a minion, it’s guaranteed.

The pet swiftness is incredible for those who choose not to use Signet of the Hunt or Agility Training. It’s basically permanent pet swiftness while using LB.

As most people believe the Longbow to be an underperforming weapon, I wouldn’t mind seeing some kind of change, I just don’t think guaranteed stealth is the answer. Maybe one of these:

- Rip one boon on successful hit.
- Improved damage.
- 3s of cripple on successful hit.

Or if they really want to spice it up add an alternate skill while stealthed. Maybe an execute style move.

If Cloak and Dagger, a highly-telegraphed melee skill that takes half of a Thief’s standard resource pool, only grants Stealth on a successful hit, why on earth do you think it’s appropriate for a 1200-range weapon to always grant Stealth on skill use no matter what?

It’s not like it’s even hard to hit to begin with…

Pet swiftness should’ve been moved to Point Blank Shot long time ago, since it makes 1000% more sense there. HS is defensive ability now, not offensive like at release.

Auesis.7301:

If Cloak and Dagger, a highly-telegraphed melee skill that takes half of a Thief’s standard resource pool, only grants Stealth on a successful hit, why on earth do you think it’s appropriate for a 1200-range weapon to always grant Stealth on skill use no matter what?

It’s not like it’s even hard to hit to begin with…

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t crit for upwards of 6k?

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t facilitate a backstab?

Because the Ranger doesn’t have evade spam on every weapon set?

Because the Ranger can’t re-enter stealth again in 3 seconds?

Should I continue? Or is it safe to say that the Ranger isn’t a Thief?

Since it’s been brought up several times now. I’d also like to hear how the skill needing to hit provides counter play? When you see the Ranger shoot Hunter’s Shot how do you counter it? It’s instant cast with no telegraph.

Holland.9351:

The Ranger’s Hunter’s Shot on the longbow should always stealth.

No it shouldn’t. No more then cleansing ire should always clear conditions just because a warrior hits F1.

Cecilia.5179:

My wishlist is that hunter’s shot only stealths and has a single powerful shot that replaces hunter’s shot when stealthed..

This is already in game. It is called a thief.

Atherakhia.4086:

Because the Ranger doesn’t have evade spam on every weapon set?

This is the best answer. It’s the only evasive type skill on bow, so it would be nice if it weren’t countered by just about anything. It’s a very powerful ability mind you, so maybe this is the intent but it’s foiled so often (yes traps may be one issue but I’m sure procs such as flame burst are also culprits in removing it immediately), I stopped even using it for the most part, when I used longbow.

Atherakhia.4086:

Auesis.7301:

If Cloak and Dagger, a highly-telegraphed melee skill that takes half of a Thief’s standard resource pool, only grants Stealth on a successful hit, why on earth do you think it’s appropriate for a 1200-range weapon to always grant Stealth on skill use no matter what?

It’s not like it’s even hard to hit to begin with…

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t crit for upwards of 6k?

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t facilitate a backstab?

Because the Ranger doesn’t have evade spam on every weapon set?

What a load of rubbish. 6k if you’re naked and have 25 Vulnerability and an Ele has given me 25 Might, perhaps.

Why would you need a follow-up attack like Backstab when you can go invisible from up to 1500 range, change position and, with the newly buffed Rapid Fire, shred the opponent to pieces for even more damage than Backstab without even getting close? Even better, why not use PBS after HS and immediately begin Rapid Fire so all of it is a guaranteed hit?

Evade on every weapon set? Of course, forgive me for using all those evades on P/D, it’s not like my entire lifeline for sustained combat is getting in to melee range and landing Cloak and Dagger which is easily dodged by any competent player.

The fact of the matter is, guaranteed Stealth from a single WEAPON skill is unacceptable. More than that, it’s a projectile skill, and you don’t deserve immunities from what projectiles are.

Dirame.8521:

No. If you can’t land it, don’t reward it.

At least some people get it. It’s unbelievable what people suggest on this forum.

Auesis.7301:

Atherakhia.4086:

Auesis.7301:

If Cloak and Dagger, a highly-telegraphed melee skill that takes half of a Thief’s standard resource pool, only grants Stealth on a successful hit, why on earth do you think it’s appropriate for a 1200-range weapon to always grant Stealth on skill use no matter what?

It’s not like it’s even hard to hit to begin with…

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t crit for upwards of 6k?

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t facilitate a backstab?

Because the Ranger doesn’t have evade spam on every weapon set?

What a load of rubbish. 6k if you’re naked and have 25 Vulnerability and an Ele has given me 25 Might, perhaps.

Why would you need a follow-up attack like Backstab when you can go invisible from up to 1500 range, change position and, with the newly buffed Rapid Fire, shred the opponent to pieces for even more damage than Backstab without even getting close? Even better, why not use PBS after HS and immediately begin Rapid Fire so all of it is a guaranteed hit?

Evade on every weapon set? Of course, forgive me for using all those evades on P/D, it’s not like my entire lifeline for sustained combat is getting in to melee range and landing Cloak and Dagger which is easily dodged by any competent player.

The fact of the matter is, guaranteed Stealth from a single WEAPON skill is unacceptable. More than that, it’s a projectile skill, and you don’t deserve immunities from what projectiles are.

Mesmers gain stealth from a single weapon skill… If you’re concerned, we can remove the projectile portion of the skill.

And P/D has the #3 skill which is your evade back with a near instant cast and your #2 which is an immobilize. And CnD is easily avoided, but you have solutions to that. Steal and IS for example.

Atherakhia.4086:

And CnD is easily avoided, but you have solutions to that. Steal and IS for example.

Uh, no. People learned to see pre-cast animations for CnD and dodge a following teleport a long time ago.

evilapprentice covered everything else I would want to say. Besides, Rangers should be honored that Hunter’s Shot works as well as it does already. It does NOT need to be faceroll-levels of easy to use, more than it already is. If you misuse HS, you should uninstall.

Atherakhia.4086:

Auesis.7301:

Atherakhia.4086:

Auesis.7301:

If Cloak and Dagger, a highly-telegraphed melee skill that takes half of a Thief’s standard resource pool, only grants Stealth on a successful hit, why on earth do you think it’s appropriate for a 1200-range weapon to always grant Stealth on skill use no matter what?

It’s not like it’s even hard to hit to begin with…

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t crit for upwards of 6k?

Because the Ranger’s skill doesn’t facilitate a backstab?

Because the Ranger doesn’t have evade spam on every weapon set?

What a load of rubbish. 6k if you’re naked and have 25 Vulnerability and an Ele has given me 25 Might, perhaps.

Why would you need a follow-up attack like Backstab when you can go invisible from up to 1500 range, change position and, with the newly buffed Rapid Fire, shred the opponent to pieces for even more damage than Backstab without even getting close? Even better, why not use PBS after HS and immediately begin Rapid Fire so all of it is a guaranteed hit?

Evade on every weapon set? Of course, forgive me for using all those evades on P/D, it’s not like my entire lifeline for sustained combat is getting in to melee range and landing Cloak and Dagger which is easily dodged by any competent player.

The fact of the matter is, guaranteed Stealth from a single WEAPON skill is unacceptable. More than that, it’s a projectile skill, and you don’t deserve immunities from what projectiles are.

And P/D has the #3 skill which is your evade back

Please refrain from posting about skills you clearly do not have a full understanding of.
There is a disconnect, either between your understanding of the basic mechanics of the game, or specifically how Shadow Stab works.

I am convinced that half the people on these forums are so misinformed because they rely on statements from other misinformed people as a basis for their opinions. You’re actively hurting the game and the less experienced playerbase by posting misinformation such as this.

You melee swing and port back if you hit. It’s not a complicated process…

Atherakhia.4086:

You melee swing and port back if you hit. It’s not a complicated process…

Shadowstep <> Evade. If you’re going to comment on how skills work, you should actually know how they work. If you portray any skill that moves you over 130’ as an “evade”, you’re massively misrepresenting how the game works.

It gives the impression you’re not experienced or qualified enough to make comments/suggestions on how skills should work when you’re not aware of how they currently work.

Atherakhia.4086:

Since it’s been brought up several times now. I’d also like to hear how the skill needing to hit provides counter play? When you see the Ranger shoot Hunter’s Shot how do you counter it? It’s instant cast with no telegraph.

Because it gives people a chance to use their active (and in some cases passive) defenses to negate the effect of the skill? Blinds, blocks, evades, reflects.

The actual animation of the skill is very different from all of the others on LB. At max range it’s possible to clutch evade it if the user doesn’t have Read the Wind.

Someone might think “Oh, I feel like this guys Hunter’s Shot is not on cool down, so I’m going to throw up my defenses because I really can’t let him nail that stealth at this moment.”

Counter-play. Simple concept, good design. Rewarding good defense is just as important as rewarding good offense.

While it certainly shouldn’t stealth on activation (lol) it should be a little more rewarding and gamechanging. Haste would be, honestly, perfect.

I’d just make it a little easier to land in melee range since it easily “breaks”, giving it more wide cone solves the issue.

Disagree. /15 chars

kitten , whats wrong? it needs a bit skill to gain an effort WOOOOOW.
Play thief when u want more stealth. Stop try to overbuff the hell out of Longbow because the most “ranger” cant play their own weapons well.