Guild Wars 2

The longbow still under performs.

This post is based around the maximum possible dps layout. This is to hold that variable constant. It’s also assumed that the Longbow is a dps weapon. It is not a defensive tool or a support tool.

SO, If geared for maximum possible damage with the longbow, the ranger will still not do as much damage as other classes geared in the same way. The most direct comparison being GS mesmer and Staff Ele who both will do more dps.

Ok, so the LB Rangers do less dps then the above classes. Surely they have something to make up for it. They’re more survivable, right? They have awesome group support? They are more about burst damage of course?

Nope, Nope and Nope.

Assuming again the max dps layout, the Longbow Ranger has absolutely no defense what so ever. Unlike the Mesmer, Thief, and Ele who all have built in defense mechanics independent of traits/stats (stealth/clones, defensive attunements, ect) the Longbow Ranger has nothing.

Again, the Ranger threw out all group support to achieve their max dps potential. And as we all know the longbow has no burst. It’s all about a smooth stream of steady damage.

Whats that you say? Longbow Range? Range alone is not a effective defensive mechanism. A skilled thief can cross a 2000 range gap in less then 3 seconds. Other classes have block and reflect that let them rush the distance unharmed.

What about the pet? What about it? The pet still can’t hit a moving target. It definitely can’t hit a leaping, teleporting, rushing target. What good is pet cc if the pet can’t apply it?

So in group fighting, even if left completely alone the Longbow Ranger will do less damage then other ranged dps classes. If focused, the Longbow Ranger is much more likely to die due to lack of active defenses.

….

So hopefully I have established the the Longbow is still under performing. Now lets look at why…

1. A ranger’s defense mechanics are too heavily tied into traits and gear. On the extreme end, a bunker ranger is nigh unkillable, but such a ranger needs to run all melee (so no longbow), typically a condi bunker (so no power) and has to spend all of his trait options to get his utilities to actually provide some defense (looking at you Signet of the Beastmaster, Empathic Bond, and Survival of the Fittest.) On the other end, the Longbow is a trait heavy weapon (to be effective it needs Steady Focus, Quick draw, Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Hunter’s Tactics and Read the Wind….OOPS, you can’t even slot all of these traits together. Another issue entirely…) So that means you can’t take any kind of defensive trait without further lowering a relatively low dps output. Now you have one of the easiest kills in the game.

2. The Ranger’s Longbow damage coefficients are too low. If they are low because Rangers have a pet then what does that say? That any investment in power a ranger makes will yield less then for another class, because the pet (the ‘reason’ for the lower multiplier) does not scale with stats. Why even give Rangers a power option then? Might as well make Longbow a condition weapon.

3. Pets can’t hit moving targets. This is a huge issue. If pets can’t hit a moving target, that means the pet can never function as a defensive mechanic for the Ranger in a PvP or WvW setting. The only time pets are effective is when you catch a enemy off guard or CC’d. Too bad the Longbow Ranger has no effective CC that hits out to 1200 that might give the pet a chance to deliver it’s own CC/damage.

And that is pretty much it. So what are some solutions…?

The simple brute force remedy is leave everything else as it is and increase Longbow damage to compensate. If Ranger is the squishiest, easiest kill in the max dps configuration…..it should also be the most deadly when left alone, pet or no pet.

The more complicated solution is to overhaul Ranger utilities as well as the Longbow itself to make the ranger more defensible without having to go all or nothing in traits/gear.

What do you guys think are some good solutions to the Longbow Ranger’s woes?

(I am aware of 6/0/2/6/0, I’m also aware that this build has a subpar DPS/survivability ratio like every other Ranger LB power build. It’s just better then anything we’ve had to date. That doesn’t make it ‘good’)

Longbow suffers from the same problem nearly every Ranger weapon suffers from. The #1 skill is the highest DPS attack for the weapon. This means #2 – #5 are all more suited for utility than real DPS. The vast majority of these skills for every weapon are actually a DPS loss over #1. This then leads to very boring gameplay because your most productive means of doing damage is to turn on auto for #1 and strafe in circles all day. For nearly every weapon.

Now as for your actual complaint, Longbow #1 actually does more damage than any other ranged weapon weapon’s #1 skill I believe (been awhile since I ran the numbers). The issue is every other class’s ranged weapon actually gains a DPS increase for using their #2 – #5 skills whereas the Ranger really doesn’t.

For example, for Rapid fire to do the same damage as #1’s max range shot, it would need a coefficient of 4.05. This means it’s a DPS loss at max range to use (but you still want to use it because of the vulnerability) and is ultimately a utility skill for when you’re not at max range and for the vuln.

You then have other issues for the weapon. Barrage is not only a fairly weak AE due to its low damage and rooting requirement to cast, but it’s also counter productive to the #3 skill because its damage will unstealth you and retaliation will often get you killed.

Hunter’s Shot is also a questionable skill. I often wonder if we got it simply because ANet couldn’t come up with a better idea to reset openning strike (as if anyone even uses Remorseless…). But even with Ride the Wind, this skill is still pretty unreliable as far as the stealth goes imo.

The problems are much more complex than just Longbow. I’m concerned ANet doesn’t even have a clue what they want this class to do let alone how they want the weapons to work.

The problem is definitely bigger then just the longbow itself. There are quick fixes to the problem, like getting rid of the range requirement on LB 1. The greater problem I believe lies in Ranger’s class design as a whole. Traits need to be moved around and some need to be compressed.

Read the Wind should be combined with Eagle Eye and remain a grandmaster trait: ala increase range by 300, speed by 100%. Heck even drop the 5% dmg boost and I’d still be happy. Once combined it should be moved to the SKirmishing line. Also move Spotter to the Skirmishing Line. This would make room to allow both Trap traits to be moved to marksmanship.

Also I think Empathic Bond should be in the Beastmaster line. Natural Healing in the Nature Magic line, and Survival of the Fittest in the Survival Line. But that’s just me.

not really. longbow has just enough goodness to be fair. most players just #1 aa on it and out/dps/survive about 2/3 of builds. you give more and it will no skill, no risk wins it all.

not the longbow….., but powerranger at itself needs help (wvw/spvp view)

i 100% agree with this, the hole power ranger builds need much help, not only a bit.

and yes, the longbow and longsword based power ranger builds need even more help.
there is nothing more useless in this game then this two weapons for ranger…

even the most condition based ranger builds become more bad with each new patch, but warrior still <3
when a good bm ranger was able to 2vs1 against some bad players in the past it need a fast nerf.
but a warrior can 3vs1 against bad players 6 month now in easy mode.
keep going anet.

would nice to become sometimes posts from any dev in a ranger based topic, not only in other profession topics all the time

here’s how longbow and longsword could work better when thiefs, eles and each kind of other power professions decide to free kill a power ranger
longbow:

longsword:

Agreed!!! Bearbows need a buff!!

a t s e.9614:

Agreed!!! Bearbows need a buff!!

Not to mention, hyenaduelist!!!

I have not seen someone with so many dogs (hyena1, hyna2, rock dog). :/

As a Ranger since early beta. I can safely say its our worst weapon. Its situational at best, a death sentience at worst. (vs Anything Melee)

As you can see from the two posts above me, its a joke weapon and we are the laughing stock of Gw2. The weapon is inexcusably awful.

To be fair, ANet have worked really hard to make the Shortbow even worse.

Ranger is bad and always will be. Every game need a class like this. You see them and know, you are better.
I already changed and it worth it

I will try something completely crazy: The longbow is not that bad!
To the contrary, it deals good damage.

However your objection is right, the longbow is a bad weapon.
How can that be? Well, there are multiple reasons for this but all have the same impact, the weapon is inconsistent.
If the longbow could always hit for his maximum damage, it would be on par with any other weapon, but it does not for the most part.

1) Our damage gets lowered to justify our pet. At the same time, the pet isn’t able to hit the target as frequently as we are able to. We lose damage.
2) We have to stay at maximum range to deal maximum damage. In any PvP situation, the target will be in front of us in no time. In any structured PvE situation, we wont get the buffs from our teammates. We lose damage.
3) Untraited, our arrows can be easily kited at maximum range. We lose damage.
4) There are far too many traits in one traitline to take all traits who benefit the longbow. Furthermore, there are some forced traits (like Spotter in PvE, RtW in WvW). We lose damage.
5) The weapon skills do not synergise. The #2 is hardly a damage gain, the #3 gets useless as long as #5 is active, #4 bugs and get countered way too easily, #5 can be easliy avoided by the enemy and deals poor damage vs other players. We don’t gain damage.
6) We lack of traits which boost our damage. Since the playstyle of the longbow can be described as “kill or be killed”, we are often left behind if it comes to raw damage. We don’t gain damage.

So that are all the reasons I can think of why the longbow suffers. Not because it can’t deal good damage, but because it never gets to the point where it can deal its full damage.

Lorelei.3918:

On the other end, the Longbow is a trait heavy weapon (to be effective it needs Steady Focus, Quick draw, Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Hunter’s Tactics and Read the Wind….OOPS, you can’t even slot all of these traits together. Another issue entirely…)

Playing Devil’s Advocate here (since no one else will…..)

For a Ranger to Be Effective at Single Target Damage, they only need Quick Draw, Eagle Eye, and Read the Wind.

For a Ranger to be Effective at Multi Target Damage, they only need Quick Draw, Piercing Arrows, and Read the Wind.

There is no reason to need both Eagle Eye and Piercing Arrows at the same time, unless a 5% damage increase (100 power at 2000 power. 125 power at 2500 power) is really that absolutely, utterly important to you the world will end otherwise. The extra 300 range doesn’t help piercing arrows in any way.

Though, since Damage is pretty much standard across all Longbow attacks anyway, Quick Draw doesn’t actually increase your damage. It does make you stealth more often, but stealth is not a requirement for the Longbow to be effective.

Steady Focus and Hunter’s Tactics are both Conditional Damage Boosts, and are not tied to the Longbow in any way. You can just as easily take Peak Strength or bountiful hunter instead of Hunter’s Tactics, also removing the need for Quick Draw for the reasons I already stated.

So, that’s 2 Required traits for Longbow, depending on whether you want to focus on single target or multi target damage, not 6 (7 if you want to include spotter)

The weapon will also never deal as much damage as weapons from other professions because of the Pet (which is roughly a 30% damage loss. This point is needed for the next paragraph, don’t TL;DR this paragraph!)

I’m not saying its a strong weapon. Its weak in almost all situations if you aren’t using it right. Longbow as a condition weapon is one of those situations, unless you have crazy high crit chance and are trying to bleed out an entire group of enemies. Trying to take both Eagle Eye and Spotter at the same time would be one of those situations as well, and it will always be one of those situations, even if the Longbow did 30% more damage and pets were removed, the bow would still not be optimal if you took both of those traits, solely because the 2 traits are designed for two totally different purposes, and trying to take them both to be effective at everything will infact leave you effective at nothing.

@HHR LostProphet.4801, I agree with #1/2/3/and 5 on the points you listed

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

Longbow tick not small numbers (but not big) but its a very slow weapon and single target! One of the lowest dps weapon

McWolfy.5924:

Longbow tick not small numbers (but not big) but its a very slow weapon and single target! One of the lowest dps weapon

No, the worst dps weapon is the mainhand axe. It’s completely unusable as powerweapon.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

If we stay with the ranger analogy, which I would appreciate, the ranger is not meant to be some sort of mage or fighter. He is, like the norns are, a hunter. The hunters specialty is to hunt down single targets.
Sadly, we pretty much suck vs. any other class and we can only outlast them, not effectively kill them.
I want the longbow to have a skill which lets me get the drop on somebody without him knowing what’s coming. I want the longbow to be either some sort of burstweapon or a longrange kiting weapon.
Because if you can’t burst your target or keep it from getting to you, you have to switch the weapon.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

First thing the Ranger needs is any understanding of the.profession and it’s state currently. Second, any vision what should it be. Third thing – responding to actual Ranger player’s feedback. Fourth – a lot of open beta testing. Fifth, finally – implementation.

LB has no idea in itself. That’s why it’s bad.

Forzani.2584:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

A ranged, single target, sustained damage, auto attack rules all, class does not a sniper make.

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

So did I, running 0/0/0/0/0 on WvW for funsies. Still proves nothing

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

oh really? nice!

can you tell me how you handle

d/d eles,
hambow warriors,
s/d thiefs,
s/p thiefs,
condi engis,
condi necros,
spirit rangers,
and and and

with this builds?
because i like always to improve my gameplay.

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

Pewpewing noobs or newbs from afar proves nothing. A thief, mesmer, warrior, guardian, engineer or elementalist should be able to close the gap in no time. Anyone who lets the ranger utilizing his range does something wrong.
Against a LB ranger, you have to play aggressive. If you do so, the ranger is forced to switch the weapon or die painfully.

Forzani.2584:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

Snipers in other games, the real world, and any story you ever read aren’t exactly known for being able to survive a one on one encounter at close range. So why should GW2 be any different if a Ranger decides to build for damage at long ranges?

Atherakhia.4086:

Forzani.2584:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

A ranged, single target, sustained damage, auto attack rules all, class does not a sniper make.

Not sure what your point is

Chrispy.5641:

Forzani.2584:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

Snipers in other games, the real world, and any story you ever read aren’t exactly known for being able to survive a one on one encounter at close range. So why should GW2 be any different if a Ranger decides to build for damage at long ranges?

I think we agree? Not exactly sure of your point either.

Chrispy.5641:

Forzani.2584:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

When you play as a pure sniper.

Snipers in other games, the real world, and any story you ever read aren’t exactly known for being able to survive a one on one encounter at close range. So why should GW2 be any different if a Ranger decides to build for damage at long ranges?

Snipers in real life as u say dont have projectiles traveling at the speed of a dead snail & MOST importantly are known to kill their targets with 1 shot, thats what they r used for….

Oidmetala.8426:

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

oh really? nice!

can you tell me how you handle

d/d eles,
hambow warriors,
s/d thiefs,
s/p thiefs,
condi engis,
condi necros,
spirit rangers,
and and and

with this builds?
because i like always to improve my gameplay.

There is Hunter shot, Point blank shot, Barrage, Lightning Reflex, Muddy terrain, Entangle. If you use GS: You have Counterblock and Swoop. If you use Sword/Dagger, You have Hornet sting, Serpent strike, and Stalker strike. You have the wolf’s fear, Krytan drakehound immobilize. You use these skills to escape and then your party members will grab the train’s attention and then you position yourself in a better position. The best spots are where you have a huge line of sight, that is difficult to traverse, and there is a escape path. My favorite spot is in Temple of the silent storm above the stairs. 1500 range can snipe enemies on the Gate objective. There you can see incoming enemies and you can prep for incoming ambushers. In my favorite spot, there are two escape paths. One that crosses through the wooden bar and the second goes to the stillness buff.

This is not a 1v1 build. This is not a bunker build. This is not a dueling build. It is a sniping build. You don’t put snipers in the front line to get shot at. You put them in the backline to support the frontline.

If you still want actual 1v1, You got to abuse the terrain harder than before. That is how I win my 1v1.

This build is not hard to play if you use it correctly, as in use the build on what it is suppose to do aka. sniping . You just need terrain knowledge and the ability to decide who to snipe off aka. zerkers.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

Pewpewing noobs or newbs from afar proves nothing. A thief, mesmer, warrior, guardian, engineer or elementalist should be able to close the gap in no time. Anyone who lets the ranger utilizing his range does something wrong.
Against a LB ranger, you have to play aggressive. If you do so, the ranger is forced to switch the weapon or die painfully.

If any of those classes can close the gap and gank the ranger before he could see it coming, then that ranger is terrible. That ranger isn’t abusing the 1500 range and the terrain; he deserves to die.

runeblade.7514:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

Pewpewing noobs or newbs from afar proves nothing. A thief, mesmer, warrior, guardian, engineer or elementalist should be able to close the gap in no time. Anyone who lets the ranger utilizing his range does something wrong.
Against a LB ranger, you have to play aggressive. If you do so, the ranger is forced to switch the weapon or die painfully.

If any of those classes can close the gap and gank the ranger before he could see it coming, then that ranger is terrible. That ranger isn’t abusing the 1500 range and the terrain; he deserves to die.

You are so wrong on so many levels, in other mmos (more successful ones) the ranger/hunter/archer profession has many reliable kiting mechanisms unlike here in gw2. rangers have huge cooldowns & unreliable spells that very often even go on cd without doing anything.

Also if u r with a ranged – longbow build & some one like warrior or thief gets to you (which is very very very easy especially for thieves) you cannot escape they have superior mobility .

if you switch weapons .. well good luck with your ranged build holding a gs or sw/smth against a thief / warrior in close combat

its a loss-loss situation

Oh and almost forgot, even with the range you have you still dont have a huge burst like thives or warriors do (no matter even if you are “THE SNIPER CLASS”)

so as a conclusion – no burst, no kiting ability,no escapeability*, no good melee option if you have a ranged build – if you are the poor kitten to try play a bow ranger basically you a the free loot bad end of story & if you wanna tell me that this is a balanced game well i don’t think so a balance —->

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_

I don’t think thats the case with gw2 pvp or at least the ranger position in all this crap.

(Edited for a typo)

There are different factors that come into play that determine your success …or lack of success. I think the analogy of a pocket QB vs a scrambling QB fits nicely.

You have your quick twitch players who are excellent at reading the enemies combos and avoiding the damage. They are great at skill combinations to do maximum damage in 1v1 (scrambling QB)

Then you have the guys are are good at positioning. Using terrain to your advantage. Recognizing when it’s time to move and reposition.

Two completely different styles. I think that’s what causes some of the disagreements here when people try and explain why a style works for them.

Forzani.2584:

There are different factors that come into play that determine your success …or lack of success. I think the analogy of a pocket QB vs a scrambling QB fits nicely.

You have your quick twitch players who are excellent at reading the enemies combos and avoiding the damage. They are great at skill combinations to do maximum damage in 1v1 (scrambling QB)

Then you have the guys are are good at positioning. Using terrain to your advantage. Recognizing when it’s time to move and reposition.

Two completely different styles. I think that’s what causes some of the disagreements here when people try and explain why a style works for them.

NO ! the easymode stealth of thieves & the underdeveloped traits, weps & utilities of rangers cause all this, in general the poor job of the developers & their lack of interest (or may be qualification) in fixing their own product.

for example if i play on my ranger & a thief kills me in 3 hits then its a l2p issie – what they say

After that i log on my mesmer & wipe the floor with those same thieves & then they are like – oh mesmer OP

i call for a fair balance !!

Snipers aren’t just characters that have ranged single-target attacks, in TBS games Sniping is a bonafide Role.

>Snipers exist to take down priority targets and objects. In GW2 there’s no real sense of prioritization because there isn’t much differing strategic value between targets. Sure, you can set priorities yourself, but on a gameplay level it’s worlds apart from having mechanics dedicated to it.

Aside from lacking the purpose, the longbow concept itself is also has a hard time pulling off similar-feeling gameplay.

>A sniper’s gameplay involves skillful delivery of damage to the target. Of which the longbow neither has a gameplay focus on delivering damage, nor a focus on using skillful execution to deliver that damage. Most of the damage is delivered through autoattack, so the rest of the weapon is centered on maintaining distance. It ends up feeling like a control weapon or a utility weapon, because that’s where all the gameplay actually is.

On top of lacking the purpose and the concept itself not really achieving a similar feeling, how it plays out in practice is also not doing so well.

>When you play a Sniper you’ve got a lone wolf theme. Yes, you’re executing a role for the team, but you’re often away from the objective and your healing/support allies in order to do so. Snipers are self-sufficient creatures, who produce selfless results. The Longbow feels the exact opposite, I feel as though I need somebody around playing distraction, because my weapon lacks the fundamental combat reset to counteract closers. And when that combines with lacking the purpose; I end up feeling like a creature that needs help, to produce a selfish result.

> Making the ‘fight or flight’ choice once somebody’s found your perch is a good part of Sniping. But, all this weapon’s gameplay does is take fighting off the table, instead of pressuring you into making a choice.

The things they could do to help fix that;

• They could add strategic targets to help give single target attacks more meaning
  • Greater mob teamplay that encourages prioritizing
  • A mechanic for spotting an enemy Commander

• They could refocus longbow on a gameplay level;
  • Gameplay about delivering damage to the target should exist somewhere. This delivery should involve some kind of skillful execution, such as aiming.
  • Longbow could use a more powerful combat reset, that can’t also double as a combat aid. If Longbow was more clearly the ‘flight choice’, and melee weapons were more clearly the ‘fight choice’, they could use the weapon swap cooldown to force you to decide between one or the other. Right now in CQC situations our melee weapons do both Flight and Fight well, and Longbow doesn’t offer either of them.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Just how often is ‘being effective at single target damage’ an actual desirable thing in this game? I am all for AOE vs. single target being a efficacy tradeoff, but not when focus firing is so rarely applied and you’re one of the few weapons in town that has to play by the rules.

Forzani.2584:

When you play as a pure sniper.

Forzani.2584:

Chrispy.5641:

Snipers in other games, the real world, and any story you ever read aren’t exactly known for being able to survive a one on one encounter at close range. So why should GW2 be any different if a Ranger decides to build for damage at long ranges?

I think we agree? Not exactly sure of your point either.

The point was just to see if someone would start talking about the finer points of whether the Ranger qualifies as a Sniper or not, and Vox just made a nice long post about it.

runeblade.7514:

Oidmetala.8426:

runeblade.7514:

If Longbow is so bad, then I must be a pro esport player.

I sniped and killed so many players using the 6/0/2/6/0 build.

oh really? nice!

can you tell me how you handle

d/d eles,
hambow warriors,
s/d thiefs,
s/p thiefs,
condi engis,
condi necros,
spirit rangers,
and and and

with this builds?
because i like always to improve my gameplay.

There is Hunter shot, Point blank shot, Barrage, Lightning Reflex, Muddy terrain, Entangle. If you use GS: You have Counterblock and Swoop. If you use Sword/Dagger, You have Hornet sting, Serpent strike, and Stalker strike. You have the wolf’s fear, Krytan drakehound immobilize. You use these skills to escape and then your party members will grab the train’s attention and then you position yourself in a better position. The best spots are where you have a huge line of sight, that is difficult to traverse, and there is a escape path. My favorite spot is in Temple of the silent storm above the stairs. 1500 range can snipe enemies on the Gate objective. There you can see incoming enemies and you can prep for incoming ambushers. In my favorite spot, there are two escape paths. One that crosses through the wooden bar and the second goes to the stillness buff.

This is not a 1v1 build. This is not a bunker build. This is not a dueling build. It is a sniping build. You don’t put snipers in the front line to get shot at. You put them in the backline to support the frontline.

If you still want actual 1v1, You got to abuse the terrain harder than before. That is how I win my 1v1.

This build is not hard to play if you use it correctly, as in use the build on what it is suppose to do aka. sniping . You just need terrain knowledge and the ability to decide who to snipe off aka. zerkers.

ok now seriously…

you have exatly 2 options as a longbow ranger in tpvp.
and trust me i play it long enough now.

• option 1: you have more survive, but no damage (also not aoe)
  so you can jump around like a clown and be completely useless

• option 2: you have more damage (not much), but no survive.
  and every other player will love to put a target on you.
  if you go high ground like this, nobody in your team will rez you after thief, ele or even condi professions killed you in 10 seconds.
  if a s/p thief decide to troll you, he can even farm you on spawn with a build like this.

at least you will never come to try this two options, because every serious tpvp team dont take you into a team with a build like this.

so please just stop complaining longbow ranger is viable.
i have no idea how you can think that…

everything can do much better
high range is worth nothing in gw2
there is enough mobility, ports, jumps to get fast into a close combat

actually i find LB to not be too bad… it’s boring, but it’s not terrible, it just lacks character & there are too many traits for it.

If I were suggesting changes for it, i’d make it 1500 range by default (for differentiation and to eliminate a trait in the power line), and improve barrage to be instant cast and with a shorter CD and shorter channel.

So this a complaint that Ranger as a profession can’t do the same damage at range as other professions that have no pets. Essentially you want ranger to do the greatest damage as anyone else, and do it at maximum range whilst a pet holds melee range..yup, sounds totally balanced. This is one of the many reasons warrior longbow and thief shortbow received consecutive nerfs. The idea of doing max dmg at maximum range is unbalanced.

As for it lacking character? so does mace for both heavies. So does staff on necro..lots of weapon lack flavour and punch power. Ranger has one of the highest weapon selections and pet arrangements to choose from. They are not lacking in weapon diversity.

Lorelei.3918:

The simple brute force remedy is leave everything else as it is and increase Longbow damage to compensate. If Ranger is the squishiest, easiest kill in the max dps configuration…..it should also be the most deadly when left alone, pet or no pet.

This really stood out for me. It makes sense too, honestly. Power Rangers are the squishiest class in the game, requiring 6 points in respective lines to get mediocre condi-cleansing, damage immunity, or just general potency of utility/weapon skills. Given the extreme opportunity cost, it really does make sense that Rangers should hit like a truck with their Longbow. It kinda’ makes me regret not taking advantage of that perma-fury bug back when Two-Handed Training’s buff affected Eagle Eye… the damage was so great, and felt like the longbow was actually USABLE. Maybe that bug really wasn’t as crazy as people made it out to be?

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Lorelei.3918:

The simple brute force remedy is leave everything else as it is and increase Longbow damage to compensate. If Ranger is the squishiest, easiest kill in the max dps configuration…..it should also be the most deadly when left alone, pet or no pet.

This really stood out for me. It makes sense too, honestly. Power Rangers are the squishiest class in the game, requiring 6 points in respective lines to get mediocre condi-cleansing, damage immunity, or just general potency of utility/weapon skills. Given the extreme opportunity cost, it really does make sense that Rangers should hit like a truck with their Longbow. It kinda’ makes me regret not taking advantage of that perma-fury bug back when Two-Handed Training’s buff affected Eagle Eye… the damage was so great, and felt like the longbow was actually USABLE. Maybe that bug really wasn’t as crazy as people made it out to be?

Yeah, because before and after that, the Ranger had absolutely no way to give themselves perma fury without that trait. Okay……

As for it lacking character? so does mace for both heavies. So does staff on necro

Ranger LB dps is all in the auto attack, at least you need to o press buttons on other weapons. Necro staff is perhaps the most differentiated weapon in the game, not sure where you’re coming from there.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

So this a complaint that Ranger as a profession can’t do the same damage at range as other professions that have no pets. Essentially you want ranger to do the greatest damage as anyone else, and do it at maximum range whilst a pet holds melee range..yup, sounds totally balanced. This is one of the many reasons warrior longbow and thief shortbow received consecutive nerfs. The idea of doing max dmg at maximum range is unbalanced.

As for it lacking character? so does mace for both heavies. So does staff on necro..lots of weapon lack flavour and punch power. Ranger has one of the highest weapon selections and pet arrangements to choose from. They are not lacking in weapon diversity.

You haven’t been following along.

While most don’t agree with a damage handicap just because it’s ranged because melee have absolutely 0 trouble getting into melee range and staying there, most acknowledge that nothing will ever be done about it.

On top of that damage handicap, Ranger weapons are handicapped due to the pet. As you said, this is due to balance because we can’t have the Ranger doing 100% damage and the pet doing 30%. The issue comes in WvW where the pet remains nearly 100% useless because of random AE. It’s not just in zergs either. Even in groups of about 10 the pet becomes mostly unreliable. So the Ranger is seeing a 30% damage handicap due to having a pet that remaines unable to damage opponents reliably because of the way WvW is designed.

And then on top of this, players complain about the simple fact that nearly every skill for every weapon does the same damage or less as the #1 skill of that respective weapon. This means the Ranger is rewarded not for skillfull play or comboing skills, but for turning auto attack on and strafing in circles until either the Ranger or its target dies of boredom. Burst and AE are the easiest things they could give the class to make the weapons fun and competetive. No one is asking for Thief or Warrior levels or burst or Ele levels of AE… but some burst or AE wouldn’t hurt.

Actually since thieves got stealth for more survivability i dont see why doesnt the ranger have like :

stealth spell with 60 seconds cd !!!!!!!!!!!!! that stealths him for 60 seconds & the ranger breaks it hes left with rest of the cooldown to handle with

OR

since long bow power ranger is the squishiest target in the whole game it should deal MASSIVE amount of damage not a lackluster as it is currently

Sasajoe.1509:

Actually since thieves got stealth for more survivability i dont see why doesnt the ranger have like :

stealth spell with 60 seconds cd !!!!!!!!!!!!! that stealths him for 60 seconds & the ranger breaks it hes left with rest of the cooldown to handle with

OR

since long bow power ranger is the squishiest target in the whole game it should deal MASSIVE amount of damage not a lackluster as it is currently

How much Damage would you (and everyone else) consider a proper amount of damage for being so squishy? 3K Damage on an attack, 4K, 5K?

I honestly don’t think we need much. I may be alone, but when I ask for kill shot and/or other forms of burst, I’m not asking for Warrior and Thief levels of craziness. I’d settle for just a 10-20% increase above my auto attack to be honest.

If Rapid Fire did 10% more damage so it did more damage than auto attack at max range and if we had a second skill that just did 15-20% more damage than auto attack (you know my preference of removing barrage, but simply changing Signet of the Hunt to give a unique attack depending on the weapon you have when activating it would be fine too) the longbow would be in a good place.

I don’t think that’s asking for too much honestly.

I don’t think the longbow is a bad weapon, it’s decent, the only change I’d do is removing the need to be static while channeling Barrage, and vastly reducing said channel.
Rangers need so many traits to make a single weapon viable is not even fair if you compare them to other professions. That, and poor condition removal, unreliable damage and dead pets on team fights make this particular build underperform.

Again, it’s not the weapon, but mostly the builds associated with it.

Khenzy.9348:

I don’t think the longbow is a bad weapon, it’s decent, the only change I’d do is removing the need to be static while channeling Barrage, and vastly reducing said channel.
Rangers need so many traits to make a single weapon viable is not even fair if you compare them to other professions. That, and poor condition removal, unreliable damage and dead pets on team fights make this particular build underperform.

Again, it’s not the weapon, but mostly the builds associated with it.

Its not the weapon, but the weapon needs 5 traits (with room for 2) before it’s good?

Atherakhia.4086:

Khenzy.9348:

I don’t think the longbow is a bad weapon, it’s decent, the only change I’d do is removing the need to be static while channeling Barrage, and vastly reducing said channel.
Rangers need so many traits to make a single weapon viable is not even fair if you compare them to other professions. That, and poor condition removal, unreliable damage and dead pets on team fights make this particular build underperform.

Again, it’s not the weapon, but mostly the builds associated with it.

Its not the weapon, but the weapon needs 5 traits (with room for 2) before it’s good?

These 5 traits? :::

• Steady Focus
• Eagle Eye
• Quick Draw
• Hunter’s Tactics
• Peak Strength

Or these? ::

• Signet Mastery
• Beastmaster’s Might
• Precise Strike
• Signet of the Beastmaster
• Moment of Clarity

There’s more than one way to skin a cat (not that I want to find out how many ways there actually are) And there is definitely more than one way to make you more viable/deal more damage than just trying to take all traits that say ‘longbow’ on them.

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah, because before and after that, the Ranger had absolutely no way to give themselves perma fury without that trait. Okay……

I’m just going to make a bunch of assumptions and humor you since you’re being slightly antagonistic with your tone.

Red Moa with Call of the Wild and RaO with Furious Grip? Sure, that’s okay Fury overload I suppose. Can’t deny, however, that being pigeonholed into use a Moa just for the sake of a boon is kinda’ pathetic considering you’d be losing general toolbox utilities like KD, Cripple or Fear from wolf, DPS from ravens, or blasts from drakes. Swapping weapons for the sake of earning fury is somewhat unideal – rangers aren’t warriors with Fast Hands who can dip in and our of weaponsets with 0 limitations. Stepping out of the Longbow weaponset just to earn fury via Furous Grip and using Call of the Wild prevents you from effectively taking advantage of the full fury durations once you dip back into longbow 10s later. The point being: having to swap out of the longbow weaponset in order to make the longbow viable is somewhat purpose-defeating.

At least with perma-fury with just wielding the longbow, you were able to sit on that weapon set and actually pose a threat for the long term. Most competitive rangers who take longbow typically take greatsword for blocks, disengage, additional rupt’ for Moment of Clarity, burst with Maul – it proports everything that the longbow lacks. There’s simply no room for the Warhorn in a Longbow build.

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah, because before and after that, the Ranger had absolutely no way to give themselves perma fury without that trait. Okay……

I’m just going to make a bunch of assumptions and humor you since you’re being slightly antagonistic with your tone.

Red Moa with Call of the Wild and RaO with Furious Grip? Sure, that’s okay Fury overload I suppose. Can’t deny, however, that being pigeonholed into use a Moa just for the sake of a boon is kinda’ pathetic considering you’d be losing general toolbox utilities like KD, Cripple or Fear from wolf, DPS from ravens, or blasts from drakes. Swapping weapons for the sake of earning fury is somewhat unideal – rangers aren’t warriors with Fast Hands who can dip in and our of weaponsets with 0 limitations. Stepping out of the Longbow weaponset just to earn fury via Furous Grip and using Call of the Wild prevents you from effectively taking advantage of the full fury durations once you dip back into longbow 10s later. The point being: having to swap out of the longbow weaponset in order to make the longbow viable is somewhat purpose-defeating.

At least with perma-fury with just wielding the longbow, you were able to sit on that weapon set and actually pose a threat for the long term. Most competitive rangers who take longbow typically take greatsword for blocks, disengage, additional rupt’ for Moment of Clarity, burst with Maul – it proports everything that the longbow lacks. There’s simply no room for the Warhorn in a Longbow build.

Why do you need perma fury to make the Longbow Viable?

Because you can actually hit hard? Considering the low rate-of-fire, it’s quite a heavy cost seeing a non-crit.