Guild Wars 2

I believe the upcoming buff for ranger on September 9th is good and bad in certain ways. First off, yes, I do main a ranger. I am happy that ranger is finally getting a buff. The thing I am NOT happy about is that Longbow and Greatsword are being buffed so greatly that it will force almost every ranger to run power with LB and/or GS in their build, which makes the build diversity greatly drop in rangers. What I believe needs to be done is to add in some more support into the Nature Magic trait line by adding in more buffs to allies or spike healing like when warriors heal on shout.
Nature Magic sounds like Water Magic in the ways of how they should work. They both sound as if they are suppose to help people. Really the only semi-useful trait in Nature Magic for support is “Nature’s Voice” which give regeneration and swiftness when using a shout. With that as nearly the most support you can give to allies, many WvW players and guilds just tend to dislike rangers because they seem to be not useful enough in a large group, whereas every other class has a role in WvW that people can accept easily. The only other boons you can easily share are from spirits which die VERY quickly when the fights turn into zerg or guild fights, making spirits almost useless. So in order to make rangers easily accepted in WvW, they would need to bring something more unique that no other class can, or something useful that another class has.
When people see a ranger is WvW, they almost all instantly go, “Ooh, a free kill!” and go straight for the rangers and focus them first. Even I do the same thing when I’m on my ranger or another class, when I see a ranger, I also think its a free kill. Almost the only time I see rangers stay alive fairly well is when they have to run full Settler’s gear or something else using high defensive stats which seems unfair to ranger because it really is true! Rangers have horrible survivability unless completely built to tank and do no damage! If the “Natural Vigor” trait point 1 in Wilderness Survival were to be bumped back up to 50% like it use to be and swap places in the trait line with the “Peak Strength” trait point 5, that would be adding on almost enough survivability to be equal in survivability to other classes.
I’ll give examples of how other classes stay alive when they are full zerker. A warrior naturally has high vitality and fairly high armor, even when full zerker. A Guardian has very high armor naturally. A thief has stealth to keep itself alive, along with mesmer, with the added on clones to block some attacks and add a bit of confusion to stay alive. Elementalists have a large amount of healing skills they are able to use. Necromancers have naturally high health and almost a whole second extra bar of health when they have life force. Engineers have Healing Turret, which heals very high on a very short cooldown and the possibility to use utilities for added on healing. Now… What do rangers have? A pet? Pets don’t help you stay alive. Natural high armor? Nope. An kitten nal of healing skills? False. Rangers have nearly nothing to help keep them alive other than speccing for full tanking and using their heal skills to stay alive. This calls for a buff in survivability, whether it come from pets somehow, traits, utilities, whatever. I personally believe, as I said, that swapping “Natural Vigor” and “Peak Strength” and then buffing Natural Vigor back to 50% endurance recharge would help tremendously without making it where every ranger has it because you would have to put 5 points into the Wilderness Survival trait line to actually get it.
Now, back to hopefully adding in more team support. I see rangers as more of a class that should be able to do anything with how they are set up. They do give a little support, they do give a little damage, they do have a little survivability. The thing is, for almost EVERYTHING a ranger can do, another class can do better. That is why people normally won’t accept rangers in WvW. If more healing and buffs were added into the Nature Magic trait line or into utilities, it would allow a lot more build diversity in rangers than everyone using Longbow after the buff comes.
I am truly looking forward to seeing something along the lines of all this happen to rangers to help make them more useful in WvW mainly, but just more useful as a whole. People hate rangers right now, and it needs to stop. If some, or all of these things can happen, rangers will no longer be looked upon with shame or laughed at as easily.

LB and GS will still be lackluster and will not force you to play power. Other condition build will still be as good. I dont know why you saying that but it will just makes both weapon more viable. Because in those 2 weapon are considered “troll” weapon in pve as well in WvW and sPvP. Now the low dps that brought theses 2 weapon will may rivalize with other class weapons in term of ranged combat.

Lb and gs still not good

Either troll or you know nothing about Ranger, Jon Snow.

Condition Ranger gets might on AA, PvE sword gets boost, BM line gets one ASTONISHING trait (Intimidation T.) and Power will still suck in competitive play (unless you’re dedicated to play it and can do so).

It’s just serving to make the most viable Ranger spec (condition frostspotter) even more viable. Power specs has some role in WvW, but Rangers running power specs in PvE will not stop being inferior to other classes (except necros, the partner in pain) running the same gear specs. Condition builds in general are still meta for pvp content however. The amount by which the power multiplier was removed from rangers to ‘compensate for the pet dps’ is still too high for GS/LB to hold any ground against any other class in direct setups.

at the very least a LB ranger will be a huge pain in the butt in WvW due to their ability and potential to take out half if not all of somebody’s HP before they even get close. Not that they aren’t already of course.

I don’t see Rangers being strong until Pets cease autoattacking, Ranger’s Power Coefficients restored, and Rangers receiving more control over Pet skills so the choice of Pet becomes a second Utility Bar. Notable amongst the changes is that there is a significant lack of making F2 skills reset the pet’s actions so they can be activated reliably. Rangers have been clamouring for improved Pet AI and action queuing for the longest time and until that changes Ranger will always be second rate due to their class mechanic, having to rely on passives to carry them.

I think there was some Anet response to the Ranger CDI in that the Weapons LB and GS were buffed, but let’s face it. These are easy changes that hardly touch core flaws with the class – reliance upon AI and passives that really mar an otherwise creative class design. But until Pets change, the ranger will stay where it is. It may wield different weapons or slot different utilities, but it won’t be at its full potential.

Hayashi.3416:

It’s just serving to make the most viable Ranger spec (condition frostspotter) even more viable.

wat

@OP

1. the posted changes aren’t set in stone and they are not all the changes ranger is getting. Just the highlighted ones.

2. granted these balance patches take ~6 months to arrive, they will never fully fix anything especially ranger’s position in the game. Pets have been addressed in the past and they still are kitten, but this change was a good step for ranger believe it or not.

So, do they deserve more? Yes, but it won’t come all in one packaged deal. I only hope that 1 of the 2 last sections of the September feature pack have some dedication to fixing all the bugs.

The OP lost me when he said that every ranger will be forced running GS/LB now…

The damage a power ranger is capable of really wasn’t the leading problem with the class or spec. The problem with the Ranger overall is their group utility in WvW/PvP. They have no functional reason to exist. The game has been out for 2 years and WvW commanders still haven’t found a use for them in their groups. GvG teams don’t use them unless trolling. PvP has only ever supported a condi playstyle in a condi meta. Now that we’ve moved a bit away from that, Rangers are no where to be seen again.

The next big issue with the Ranger is their pets. They barely stand up to the AE pressure you would find in PvP with only 2 or 3 opponents. In WvW to call them useless would be an understatement. This goes for spirits as well. Add to this that A LOT of the Ranger’s utility is tied up in a mechanic that has never worked, and that the bulk of the F2 skills for the Ranger can’t hit a mobile target and you’re left with certainly the worst implemented class ability in the game.

The next big ticket item for the failure that is the Ranger class is their trait layout and design. The opportunity cost is simply too high for a lot of traits. Certainly more so than other classes. Mos other classes when chosing between traits make a decision based on play style or offense vs defense. A ranger must choose between numerous offensive options most oriented around a single item or utility.

Once all of the above is fixed, only then can we start to discuss power builds in particular and how ANet designed the entire Ranger class in a way that’s never going to work for a power oriented class in a competitive area.

MonMalthias.4763:

I don’t see Rangers being strong until Pets cease autoattacking, Ranger’s Power Coefficients restored, and Rangers receiving more control over Pet skills so the choice of Pet becomes a second Utility Bar. Notable amongst the changes is that there is a significant lack of making F2 skills reset the pet’s actions so they can be activated reliably. Rangers have been clamouring for improved Pet AI and action queuing for the longest time and until that changes Ranger will always be second rate due to their class mechanic, having to rely on passives to carry them.

I think there was some Anet response to the Ranger CDI in that the Weapons LB and GS were buffed, but let’s face it. These are easy changes that hardly touch core flaws with the class – reliance upon AI and passives that really mar an otherwise creative class design. But until Pets change, the ranger will stay where it is. It may wield different weapons or slot different utilities, but it won’t be at its full potential.

Exactly, as long as part of ranger effectiveness is tied to pets, the profession will be sub-par.

Be careful with what you wish for. After a year of complaining that warrior was the lowest ranked profession in Pvp, A-net in one patch buffed warrior in a way that has seen them dominate ever since. Even with 3 successive patches toning down all their skills, and another patch on the way that will see them toned down, it has become apparent that sweeping dramatic changes are not always for the best. Players are so used to the new warrior now that many will resign on them again after this patch because they will feel puny again. It is best we don’t see the same thing happen to ranger and instead implement solid, but limited changes over time.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Be careful with what you wish for. After a year of complaining that warrior was the lowest ranked profession in Pvp, A-net in one patch buffed warrior in a way that has seen them dominate ever since. Even with 3 successive patches toning down all their skills, and another patch on the way that will see them toned down, it has become apparent that sweeping dramatic changes are not always for the best. Players are so used to the new warrior now that many will resign on them again after this patch because they will feel puny again. It is best we don’t see the same thing happen to ranger and instead implement solid, but limited changes over time.

The issue is that ANet does poor maintenance on their sweeping changes. Massive overhauls are necessary sometimes. Ignoring them on the basis that at release they could be excessive is a terrible idea when approaching a subjective subject as balance, especially when ANet has the potential to change or revert such changes instantly should they feel the need.

ANet just simply doesn’t follow their changes well, and because of it only opts to fix “low-hanging fruit” problems. The sad fact is that in the ranger’s situation, this will never be enough due to fundamental problems with the class which they even admit exist because of hardware and programmatic limitations but outright refuse to do so because their “vision” of the class differs from what the class needs to be, which is only achievable through major, sweeping changes.

I’m thinking the buffs will be pretty much unnoticed to the community at large. Its more just a dumbing down to make things easier to use and spec for, and fun to use. But mostly inconsequential.

The main thing that will bring qq are the number of people playing their rangers to check out the changes; there will be arrows flying around quite liberally, which will no doubt result in some deaths.

A few maybe. Bound to be some people afk out there. I kid of course. But not really. Kinda.

i’ll admit, that post was way too long and blocky for me to read. bullet points are your friend! just use * followed by space at the start of each paragraph.

anyway, maybe i’m biased because i already run LB/GS and find it very fun to play, but i loved the ranger changes. it gives GS the oomph it needed alongside some cool tweaks, it improves the state of longbow as a damage dealing skill, and it makes read the wind cool.

but it doesn’t stop there! signets can now be taken without beastmaster signet, allowing signet builds more flexibility, and the new marksmanship GM lines up so well with 1- the power/condi duration line it’s on, and 2- the ranger playstyle, which is just packed with soft CCs.

TLDR

But I will say this: Rangers their current most viable builds hard counter any sort of risk play which is out of meta. The buffs they are getting will not increase power play in PvP but will be more viable than it currently is. Thieves will still dominate the roamer roll, but with S/D nerfs and war adrenaline nerfs the changes are a lot better in context than they seem on paper.

For PvE I do feel players will be more accepting, the changes will not make them warrior level viable however I am sure they wont seem like a wasted slot anymore, and IMO they are one of the best solo classes.

as for WvW I can’t say much because it’s the part of the game I rarely participate however I main Mesmer so unless something is awesome announced in the next 20 min or so no need for tears my friend.

If anet learned anything from warrior and necro, is that they don’t want to over-buff. This patch is a great start, and I believe we will begin to see more improvements from here on out. Ranger is pretty famous for eating nerfs patch after patch, and I believe Anet has finally become aware of that. We will get more, have some faith.

Kilger.5490:

I’m thinking the buffs will be pretty much unnoticed to the community at large. Its more just a dumbing down to make things easier to use and spec for, and fun to use. But mostly inconsequential.

The main thing that will bring qq are the number of people playing their rangers to check out the changes; there will be arrows flying around quite liberally, which will no doubt result in some deaths.

Some good points here, I agree.

I think you hit the nail on the head in that a fair few players will want to dust off their Ranger or level one up to check out the new improvements to DPS, and this could indeed result in QQ as to the sheer number running power or damage-spike builds in WvW and PvP. Hopefully if this does happen it will subside after people go back to their mains.

But by-and-large I think you’re right in that generally the updates will go unnoticed, except perhaps to the odd thief who dies to a QZ-buffed rapid fire. Condition and regen-based builds will likely still dominate the solo roaming meta and certain pvp roles as these updates do not surpass their viability.

Although it’s hard not to love being buffed, I’d say we don’t really need any more after this. What we do need however is a complete overhaul in our pet mechanic (for the love of god please bring in something like aspect of the pet…) or something that results in us having much, much more control over the interactions between our character, the pet and the enemy.

As a ranger you should know that any buff at all is a good thing, specially on weapons we actually use.
I was expecting nerfs and “nothingness” (like an aquaman 2.0 patch) but we got actually nice buffs, I couldn’t be happier.

Belzebu.3912:

As a ranger you should know that any buff at all is a good thing, specially on weapons we actually use.
I was expecting nerfs and “nothingness” (like an aquaman 2.0 patch) but we got actually nice buffs, I couldn’t be happier.

True we are stronger, but this also means that anything related to actual WvW/GvG usefulness, sword root, pet issues, bloated trait lines, Sb/Axe purpose ect will pretty much have to wait another 6 months if not more.

I’m very happy with the changes but my joy is pretty dampened by the fact that so much will go unaddressed for such a long time…

Substance E.4852:

Belzebu.3912:

As a ranger you should know that any buff at all is a good thing, specially on weapons we actually use.
I was expecting nerfs and “nothingness” (like an aquaman 2.0 patch) but we got actually nice buffs, I couldn’t be happier.

True we are stronger, but this also means that anything related to actual WvW/GvG usefulness, sword root, pet issues, bloated trait lines, Sb/Axe purpose ect will pretty much have to wait another 6 months if not more.

I’m very happy with the changes but my joy is pretty dampened by the fact that so much will go unaddressed for such a long time…

Such is the life of the Ranger.

Heh. I remember the hype about stealth getting added to Hunter’s Shot. Was it 1 or 2 days it took for that hype to dissolve completely?

While these updates are probably the best Rangers have seen since the release of GW2, I can’t help but feel they are still a gimmicky way of putting off the serious changes we need, apart from perhaps the signet change – that was pretty sweet.

Pets, pets, pets. I can’t help but feel the devs are burying their heads in the sand because they know the amount of work that would have to go into re-programming the pet mechanic. Ah well let’s have fun with these updates for now and see if they devs will gives us a response about their intentions for the future of GW2 pets…