Guild Wars 2

Swagger.1459:

time to start getting some serious work done on professions and combat and stop wasting the great potential this game has.

This game’s drastic lack of potential to generate player-driven, skill-based content is shockingly apparent when viewed merely from a “how do players move” standpoint.

Swagg.9236:

Swagger.1459:

time to start getting some serious work done on professions and combat and stop wasting the great potential this game has.

This game’s drastic lack of potential to generate player-driven, skill-based content is shockingly apparent when viewed merely from a “how do players move” standpoint.

It doesn’t seem like you want to explain what you actually mean, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you are waiting for someone to ask what you mean so you can hang it over their head somehow, but I’ll bite:

What exactly do you even mean by this? I tried to articulate it to my girlfriend, and though I felt I kind of knew where you were coming from, I couldn’t do it. Perhaps you can do a better job, since you posted the sentence.

Swagg.9236:

Swagger.1459:

time to start getting some serious work done on professions and combat and stop wasting the great potential this game has.

This game’s drastic lack of potential to generate player-driven, skill-based content is shockingly apparent when viewed merely from a “how do players move” standpoint.

this is a swagg post

Another useless Ready-Up.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoonfeed me.

Snap player movement/repositioning achieved through physics engine/game-play exploits fosters skill-based combat. GW2 doesn’t have any of that. Therefore, GW2 is crippled on a fundamental level as to how it produces skill-based, player-driven combat. Sticky targeting and excessive stat stacking also kills skill-based combat, but that’s another topic. Just go to the bottom of the first page so I don’t have to copy-paste my words again.

ruincakes.8231:

this is a swagg post

I don’t expect anyone that plays GW2 to understand the qualities that go into making a good game.

Swagg.9236:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoonfeed me.

Snap player movement/repositioning achieved through physics engine/game-play exploits fosters skill-based combat. GW2 doesn’t have any of that. Therefore, GW2 is crippled on a fundamental level as to how it produces skill-based, player-driven combat. Sticky targeting and excessive stat stacking also kills skill-based combat, but that’s another topic. Just go to the bottom of the first page so I don’t have to copy-paste my words again.

ruincakes.8231:

this is a swagg post

I don’t expect anyone that plays GW2 to understand the qualities that go into making a good game.

I think you are the most knowledgeable person on this forum.

Josh Davis.6015:

So, here’s a few notes on warrior:

Warrior:
Of the heavy classes, the Warrior is able to balance sustainability and damage. They bring high sustained damage and opponent control.

• Strengths:
  • Sturdy body
  • Able to apply physical or condition damage
  • Sustained melee AoE DPS
  • Melee crowd control

• Weaknesses:
  • Little ability to deal with enemy boons
  • Reliant on adrenaline to use many abilities
  • Can become overwhelmed by conditions if their defenses expire

I think more than anything else you could possibly do to improve the state of the game would be to write these lists up for all 8 profession and post them in a blog. I’ve been asking “what are professions supposed to be bad at?” for a long time. Nice to finally see an answer.

Now the problem you’re running into with this list is classic Hollywood logic – two characters are scuffling and they keep trying to get to the dropped gun. The gun is not what wins the fight – beating your opponent down wins the fight. Stop scrabbling after the gun and punch the other guys in the kidneys – bam, fight over…
NO ONE CARES that warriors cant’ strip boons because being dead its the ultimate boon remover. You gave them a weakness that is completely covered by their high damage and massive CC potential.

Many other classes look at “reliant on Adrenaline” and think “I’d swap my busted class mechanic for adrenaline dependence in heartbeat.” Oh darn, warriors have to endure a class mechanic that actually works.

And weakness three is the same deal as weakness one – it would matter if they had trouble killing you before those defenses expire… but they don’t have that trouble.

You might need to tone down their strengths just a wee bit to allow the weaknesses to actually reveal themselves…

Nike.2631:

Josh Davis.6015:

So, here’s a few notes on warrior:

Warrior:
Of the heavy classes, the Warrior is able to balance sustainability and damage. They bring high sustained damage and opponent control.

• Strengths:
  • Sturdy body
  • Able to apply physical or condition damage
  • Sustained melee AoE DPS
  • Melee crowd control

• Weaknesses:
  • Little ability to deal with enemy boons
  • Reliant on adrenaline to use many abilities
  • Can become overwhelmed by conditions if their defenses expire

I think more than anything else you could possibly do to improve the state of the game would be to write these lists up for all 8 profession and post them in a blog.

You would be wrong.

Nike.2631:

Many other classes look at “reliant on Adrenaline”

Having two skills that are almost always off cool-down, very easy to build to full power, and possess zero synergy with other weapon-related skills does not describe the phrase “reliant on a mechanic.” Warrior’s mechanic isn’t adrenaline, it’s passive healing and godmode. GW1 had a Warrior that was dependent on a pool of adrenaline.

Swagg.9236:

I don’t expect anyone that plays GW2 to understand the qualities that go into making a good game.

Funny, here I thought I was looking for a good MMO, not a good arena shooter with swords.

Might want to buy the correct game the next time. I’m sorry, but why would you look for components of Shooters and Brawlers in a MMORPG? That’s about the last things I’d want here, considering I got other games to play for that already. Here, I need a game which has a high skill cap but a low skill requirement (for winning), and in PvP makes everyone feel as if they contribute while ideally masking that on a technical level.

As in: I need a game which allows everyone to compete. Because the underlying idea is that I can get friends, loved ones and family to play this. Plenty of these will have completely different levels of gaming skill, and the game needs to bring them all to the same table. While ideally keeping some sensible form of danger around.

Does GW2 deliver on that? Well, no. Or rather it could, by simply taking something away (we overspecialize, right now).

But still, you seem to be looking at this the wrong way: MMORPGs don’t need to provide perfect gameplay, they need to strive for playability. Their underlying idea is mass-multiplayer, the former of these words implies you cannot aim for a specific subset of mechanical perfection.
Which is also the common element in successful MMOs of days past.

Since you guys want a two-way conversation, let’s talk a little bit about the part -
Weakness of warrior =)

Little ability to deal with enemy boons
Yes they cant strip off enemy boons but since their burst is so high, it doesn’t matter does it?

Reliant on adrenaline to use many abilities
Yes that is correct but when adrenaline are in abundance, that isnt really a limitation.

Can become overwhelmed by conditions if their defenses expire
Warrior has many ways to condi clear if traited (very good traits compared to other professions’ traits to do the same job). Some professions dont even have the said defenses against conditions. This weakness is really a mild one.

Swagg.9236:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoonfeed me.

Snap player movement/repositioning achieved through physics engine/game-play exploits fosters skill-based combat. GW2 doesn’t have any of that. Therefore, GW2 is crippled on a fundamental level as to how it produces skill-based, player-driven combat. Sticky targeting and excessive stat stacking also kills skill-based combat, but that’s another topic. Just go to the bottom of the first page so I don’t have to copy-paste my words again.

Do pot shots in red threads make you feel better? Arguing that a game is fundamentally crippled 2 years after it was released is a waste of your time. The game isn’t going to fundamentally change, so what exactly are you doing here? Go play a fighting game, or Dark Souls PvP, or Forge, or some old Q3A or something. I don’t know that you will ever be happy in an MMO, unless you happened to be one who enjoyed the old “glory” days of early Age of Conan and you’re just waiting for that to happen again.

And I read your Page 1 words. I wasn’t impressed after it seemed like you don’t know much about the game. You should replace “skill-based” with “style-that-I-prefer”, because skill comes in many shapes and sizes. Then you should go find something that truly makes you happy, because I think hanging around here just makes you bitter, regardless of the amusement you tell yourself you get at responses like mine.

Also, “GW2 will never be good” actually reads “GW2 will never be a game that I like”. Until you develop the magical skill-based MMO of your dreams for me to try out, I’ll continue supporting this one.

In the meantime, maybe watching this video will make you feel better/remind you of the types of games you enjoy:

Carighan.6758:

I’m sorry, but why would you look for components of Shooters and Brawlers in a MMORPG?

Because they actually do exist within the code of GW2. Moreover, GW2 was billed as an action MMO with that all-important phrase: “dynamic combat™.” I still believe that there was a point at which Anet actively worked to blend the qualities of 3rd-person shooter, fighter and MMO together (there is evidence of this), but ended up quitting because it was too hard and instead produced the mess that is GW2 today. And if you’re going to ask “But, where’s the evidence??” well good luck getting me to spoonfeed it all to you, kiddo, but you can go find it yourself. You’d be well aware of such things if you actually played GW2 at some point.

I don’t care enough anymore to prove anything to you or to anyone else that clearly doesn’t know why GW2 is so bad on a fundamental level.

Carighan.6758:

Here, I need a game which has a high skill cap but a low skill requirement (for winning), and in PvP makes everyone feel as if they contribute while ideally masking that on a technical level.

There’s nothing technical or skillful about any GW2 game-play. Every skill does exactly what it says it does 100% of the time. There’s no utility or accidental physics exploit to put the game more into the hands of the players. Wavedashing in Super Smash Brothers: Melee is technical; rocket jumping in Quake or TF2 is technical; getting more sanics off of a nitron grenade in Tribes: Ascend is technical.

There is no utility for skills in GW2 outside of their exact descriptions. That kind of environment spells the death of skill-based and creative combat in a game. Trying to develop skill in GW2 is like trying to jump while inside of a washing machine. The game is designed in a way that removes skill from an encounter. In short, GW2 plays itself. Player input is often very minimal when it comes to the calculations that go into delivering a player’s skill effect to an enemy.

Carighan.6758:

As in: I need a game which allows everyone to compete. Because the underlying idea is that I can get friends, loved ones and family to play this.

You can do that too with all of the games that I listed above. You can also understand that there are drastic technical skill differences between players in those games as well. GW2 greatly struggles to produce evidence of the latter.

Carighan.6758:

But still, you seem to be looking at this the wrong way: MMORPGs don’t need to provide perfect gameplay, they need to strive for playability.

You’re willing to stomach Runescape-level game-play for the sake of “playability.” You would be better off just playing a turn-based game. The best part is that you mention “playability” in a game where people still get stuck in the wall after teleporting, are suddenly stuck in a single spot after using a movement skill and still occasionally experience an inability to use any skill at all in overworld PvE. Let’s not even mention all of the shoddy AI (ally and enemy) and the associated PvE encounter bugs that still exist.

Carighan.6758:

Their underlying idea is mass-multiplayer, the former of these words implies you cannot aim for a specific subset of mechanical perfection.
Which is also the common element in successful MMOs of days past.

You’re limiting your imagination. Stop doing that.

Cogbyrn.7283:

You don’t like this game, so don’t post here. Go play something else.

I don’t play GW2 anymore. I just dropped in to tell the devs that their balance philosophy is flawed, their class design is lazy and that GW2 won’t be saved by a bunch of meaningless blog posts. I know that this game is beyond help. It’s honestly just irresponsible to keep supporting a developer that’s done a complete 180 on its original game design philosophies. People here should honestly jump ship on a genre that is honestly dated given that its associated developers no longer really seek to push the envelope for what an “MMO” give to its players in terms of input-driven game-play.

Cogbyrn.7283:

You should replace “skill-based” with “style-that-I-prefer”

Yes, because something with player input on the level of wavedashing, rocket-jumping, mind-gaming someone in a fighting game, tribe skiing or even just aiming is definitely comparable to “press button; hit opponent.”

Pity-posting a video of Diago styling on Justin a decade ago won’t make you any less wrong.

Julie Yann.5379:

I believe this issue with warrior mobility stems from WvW. The problem is not the warriors, it’s the ridiculously OP combo of dogged march, melandru, and -condition food (mainly the food). It’s makes us almost immune to CC which should not be. Combine that with mobility from GS and yes you can escape any situation. If Anet is serious about balancing professions they should start by removing foods and oils/stones from WvW.

BTW the runaway warrior build is built just for that. You can really kill anything but an NPC with that build.

Not being able to kill PCs with Great Sword is a commonly spread misinformation in these forums. Warrior’s GS allows to chase down fleeing opponents in low health / having skills in cooldown. Crazy mobility + ranged cripple (with leg specialist cripple is also 1 s immobilized). Only another warrior or thief built for mobility and having full initiative pool can escape a GS warrior. That is the reason it is by far the most common roaming spec after various thief builds. And it is becoming more popular in zerg fights as well.

In group fights GS can be a monster. I have seen even very experienced player in a tanky build (and experience playing all professions many hundreds hours) repeatedly melt against enemy GS warrior after being CCed. *100 blades will eat you, if you are stunned and immobilized. You can use another weapon to do the CC and in group setting this becomes easier. Warrior has hard CC with under 10 second cooldown e.g. earthshaker and in any zerg fight the amount of CC is ridiculous. At the same time most of the stun breakers of this game are on a long cooldown and many professions have very limited access to stability.

Warrior can invest less points to thoughness and vitality than most professions as it already has high base stats for both. Basically the combination of high armor + health is like having more ability points. Warrior also has access to several immunities e.g. berserker’s stance, endure pain, balanced stance/dolyak signet. Hammer + GS combination is efficient in zerg fights. Basically high base health + heavy armor + very high mobility + several immunities + massive burst and damage + tons of CC in one build.

Like many others have commented Cleansing ire is too good as it is. Hammer and longbow burst skills are another problem. Earthshaker is 600 leap (mobility), 240 radius (huge) 2 second AoE stun + blast finisher = way too much in one skill with under 10 s cooldown. There is no AoE stun in this game with so small cool down. Static field is 40 s cool down. That is why this “hammer stun” (= earth shaker) has been dominating the WvWvW zerg meta since Autumn 2012. The skill itself doesn’t do that much damage, but it provides the CC for the ally elementalists land their meteor showers and other area damage, plus the necros also do massive damage with their wells and strip boons e.g. stability. The main reason why many quit WvWvW is that meta has always been the same. Warrior was never weak in WvWvW. It was the top of the meta already in Autumn 2012, together with Guardians. Yet Arenanet kept buffing these two professions to the point that more than half of almost any organized zerg is guardians and warriors. Elementalist is still not overpowered in small scale setting, despite having both the best DPS and burst in this game, but those come at the expense of survivability. Necromancers have a true weakness: lack of mobility and vulnerability against hard CC. Mesmers are needed for their powerful utilities (portal, veil, time stop etc) and have always been one of the best professions in 1 vs 1, but lack AoE damage. Rangers and engineers have never been part of WvWvW meta.

Combustive shot is 1000 s range, direct damage + burn, 4 s fire field and 240 radius.

My suggestion to balance these issues are:
1. Increase the cooldown of some warrior mobility skills (rush, whirlwind attack which is also an evade, and savage leap) or reduce their range by 33%. Or make them always require a target. Warrior should have ability to close in, but not the ability disengage/reset any fight it wants.
2. Decrease the area of combustive shot and earth shaker to 120 radius in pvp/WvWvW.
3. Missing a burst skill should deplete adrenaline
4. Split cleansing ire into two traits: 20 master trait, gaining adrenaline when being hit and 30 GM trait to cleanse 1 condition per bar of adrenaline (currently cleansing ire is better than most GM traits available for other professions)

Alternative way to balance cleansing ire + burst skills: Increase the cooldown of burst skills. Points spent in discipline line would still reduce this cooldown (and with fast hands being so good, most warriors invest at least 15 in this trait line any case).

Drakabane.8631:

Guardian = Strength: Damage Mitigation and Burst heals with virtues. Weakness: condition damage application, poor long-range effectiveness, extreme cooldowns.

Fixed it for you.

Swagg.9236:

Yes, because something with player input on the level of wavedashing, rocket-jumping, mind-gaming someone in a fighting game, tribe skiing or even just aiming is definitely comparable to “press button; hit opponent.”

Mindgames are skill, but everything else you mention could be done by an AI, often even better than a human could do it. Being within the capability of an AI automatically disqualifies a technique as skilful.

Since it didn’t seem engineer was mentioned to be weak to cc which they obviously are (rifle engy’s wreck other engies, warrior hammer cc combo’s wreck engy’s). Does that mean we may get more stunbreak options?

And I just want to put it out there that initiative was cool and junk, but for the game. it is a BAD mechanic. Thieves should not be able to spam skills so many times. Hard to balance.

Decent thieves hard counter just about any remotely glass builds, let other classes run glassy builds without having to just give up against a thief!

Josh Davis.6015:

The point about warrior low/high mobility was actually community feedback that we were relaying, in that you would like to see the warrior have less access to mobility skills – not more. We don’t think warrior should have more mobility.

-Josh

actually Warrior need buffs in “in-battle” mobility.

considering Warrior a melee profession with no or bad ranged attacks also got HUGE telegraphed skills.

The necromancer

-Will never be desired in dungeons, unless they receive a Cleave skill.
-Will never have any use for boon removal in PVE, unless boon removal actually becomes a thing in PVE. Right now it is irrelevant.
-Will never find a good use for conditions in PVE, unless PVE is changed to be not so anti-conditions. The condition cap has to go.
-Will never have a use for control skills in boss battles, unless Defiant/Unshakeable is changed. Right now control skills are rendered useless against bosses.
-Death Shroud will never work well, unless is changed so that it no longer is an obstruction to our class. We should be able to heal in DS (untraited) and we should be able to use our utility skills in DS.

Our class is fundamentally broken in PVE from the ground up. The entire design of PVE contradicts our class’ core features. And yet with any balance podcast, our class is quickly skipped as if it does not matter.

We necromancers feel like a neglected child.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The necromancer

-Will never be desired in dungeons, unless they receive a Cleave skill.
-Will never have any use for boon removal in PVE, unless boon removal actually becomes a thing in PVE. Right now it is irrelevant.
-Will never find a good use for conditions in PVE, unless PVE is changed to be not so anti-conditions. The condition cap has to go.
-Will never have a use for control skills in boss battles, unless Defiant/Unshakeable is changed. Right now control skills are rendered useless against bosses.
-Death Shroud will never work well, unless is changed so that it no longer is an obstruction to our class. We should be able to heal in DS (untraited) and we should be able to use our utility skills in DS.

Our class is fundamentally broken in PVE from the ground up. The entire design of PVE contradicts our class’ core features. And yet with any balance podcast, our class is quickly skipped as if it does not matter.

We necromancers feel like a neglected child.

And you would think with these things they would be much more wanted in PVP, right? Nope!

Nights.7036:

And you would think with these things they would be much more wanted in PVP, right? Nope!

I don’t care for PVP. I care for PVE.
I wish more people did.

Hey Anet,
I didn’t believe I would say something positive about your recent work but here it comes. This last Ready Up was actually best (ever?) for one simple reason. It was informative. If I take a look at each class then it makes sense where they are and where you want them. I am not saying everything is perfect, but it makes more sense than the state before. Just few tips for future:

• Sometimes start from the “end” of the list of professions. In this ready up it was better but usually it feels like you spend a lot of time on first professions (ele, engi) and then you run out of time for the other classes (can be seen on patch notes, etc.)
• These professions characteristic should be sticky post in profession’s and balance subforums so people whine less about something what won’t change. (I am realist here, a lot of people can’t/won’t read, but at least some will.)
• More interaction with players. You should be discussing more the state of things (professions, game modes,…) where you feel the current state is and where you want it to be, how to reach this state, etc.
• Do not only discuss but also change things. I know you had WvW tournament recently, sPvP tournament ahead, but there should be patch ready to roll out as soon as those things ends. For example I was very disappointed there was no WvW update after season. It feels like “WvW abilities project” is dead, you are still happy with the state where unrewarding jobs in WvW (scouting, defending,…) are not rewarded properly,… Same can be said about sPvP and PvE. Are you happy with current state? If yes tell us if know tell us what (if anything) you are doing to change it. We had many CDI on different topics, but no results can be seen. If you change something based on CDI please tell us so we can see the feedback is not lost.
• Improve patch notes. In past there were some nice examples where you even gave reason why you are changing this or that. There is plenty of hidden stuff changed, but not in patch notes.
• Weekly forum replies. It would be awesome if you had some goal like at least 5 – 10 replies in profession forum, sPvP forum, WvW forum,… So we can see it is read. The reply doesn’t need to be novel. It can be 2-3 sentences if written well. Something like: “I am keeping eye on this thread. Can you give me more feedback on XY?”

There would be much more I would like to see, but I believe at least some of these would make me and some more players more happy.

Swagg.9236:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoonfeed me.

Snap player movement/repositioning achieved through physics engine/game-play exploits fosters skill-based combat. GW2 doesn’t have any of that. Therefore, GW2 is crippled on a fundamental level as to how it produces skill-based, player-driven combat. Sticky targeting and excessive stat stacking also kills skill-based combat, but that’s another topic. Just go to the bottom of the first page so I don’t have to copy-paste my words again.

ruincakes.8231:

this is a swagg post

I don’t expect anyone that plays GW2 to understand the qualities that go into making a good game.

Then why are you posting trying to educate them?
If you don’t expect them to live up to your expectations perhaps it was time you focused your efforts elsewhere.

Deniara Devious.3948:

1. Increase the cooldown of some warrior mobility skills (rush, whirlwind attack which is also an evade, and savage leap) or reduce their range by 33%. Or make them always require a target. Warrior should have ability to close in, but not the ability disengage/reset any fight it wants.
2. Decrease the area of combustive shot and earth shaker to 120 radius in pvp/WvWvW.
3. Missing a burst skill should deplete adrenaline
4. Split cleansing ire into two traits: 20 master trait, gaining adrenaline when being hit and 30 GM trait to cleanse 1 condition per bar of adrenaline (currently cleansing ire is better than most GM traits available for other professions)

Alternative way to balance cleansing ire + burst skills: Increase the cooldown of burst skills. Points spent in discipline line would still reduce this cooldown (and with fast hands being so good, most warriors invest at least 15 in this trait line any case).

1)Whirlwind isn’t even a targeted skill. The evade component is clearly there so it can be used as a means of active defense and positioning. Making it require a target completely negates the intended use of the skill.

2)Make said skills useless.

3)Synergy with CI would be over the top – how did you come up with this one?

4)Just no.

I find the video/ready up to be very telling about Arenanets design philosophy when it comes to professions, and by extension the rest of the game.
And that is one where DPS is central, and everything else is secondary.

I said so in the comments, but I will reiterate here to make myself perfectly clear.
Re-watch the video and pay attention to how often they talk about DPS, and everything in relation to DPS vs other roles or forms of play. It’s no contest, the entire discussion revolved only around DPS with fleeting mentions to support and control elements as an aside. That’s how irreverent they are.

And this perspective has evidently shaped their game design, as if you are not a DPS, you might as well not even exist for the fat lot of good you can do. Support is a joke, and Control is arguably worse, because they are not roles in and of themselves, but rather they exist only in relation to DPS.

-
And because DPS is an inherently solo experience, multiple suffers as a result.
Until Arenanet perspective changes, so that support, control, tanking, healing, whatever role are considered EQUAL to DPS, rather then just a side element of it, the multiplayer experience isn’t going to get any better then it current it…… which is very weak imho. As is almost non-existent.

So if your like me, who prefers helping people rather then beating their face in, or anything other then DPS, your completely out of luck.

I don’t know why all these new players are bashing on CI and BS. When warriors didn’t have these cleanses, it was literally impossible to go into melee without losing more than half of your health in sPvP/WvW. However, I will agree that CI needs a ICD just to keep it in check, and Absolute Resolution should be on par with CI.

I hate saying it because it feels like I’m beating a dead horse, but I honestly think the devs should put less time on their philosophies and look at underused traits/utilities. In 2 years of gw2, I’ve never seen a full signet guardian or necro, a trap theif or a physical only warrior. Now I’m not saying all signets, traps, physical etc. are bad. It’s just that certain utilities/traits are really weak compared to other utilities/traits. I’m also not saying they don’t balance at all. Thank Melandru they removed the useless bone minion trait and they changed the 9000% damage thief signet.

On completely unrelated note, I think the devs should change the GWEN meta in WvW (and buffing TREM, buff ranged damage to counter GWEN (?), a new WvW mode, clones, pets etc.). Right now WvWs stale as skritt and it needs love because fat girls need love too.

Last thing, you guys should add more weapons and replace the gain x when rezzing traits that only a few thieves and fewer mesmers use with the new weapon traits. If you can’t take out traits, you could always fuse certain traits or add removed traits to less used utilities. And add new elites which the engineer desperately needs.

TLDR: More customization choices and WvW love.

Yoh.8469:

I find the video/ready up to be very telling about Arenanets design philosophy when it comes to professions, and by extension the rest of the game.
And that is one where DPS is central, and everything else is secondary.

I said so in the comments, but I will reiterate here to make myself perfectly clear.
Re-watch the video and pay attention to how often they talk about DPS, and everything in relation to DPS vs other roles or forms of play. It’s no contest, the entire discussion revolved only around DPS with fleeting mentions to support and control elements as an aside. That’s how irreverent they are.

And this perspective has evidently shaped their game design, as if you are not a DPS, you might as well not even exist for the fat lot of good you can do. Support is a joke, and Control is arguably worse, because they are not roles in and of themselves, but rather they exist only in relation to DPS.

-
And because DPS is an inherently solo experience, multiple suffers as a result.
Until Arenanet perspective changes, so that support, control, tanking, healing, whatever role are considered EQUAL to DPS, rather then just a side element of it, the multiplayer experience isn’t going to get any better then it current it…… which is very weak imho. As is almost non-existent.

So if your like me, who prefers helping people rather then beating their face in, or anything other then DPS, your completely out of luck.

While I do not agree with you that the game suffers because of " dps focus " and that this subtracts from the MMO experience for the sake of argument I’ll add something in.

You might consider the fact that MMOs have a range of your character’s dependency on other characters. This range extends from no dependency to completely dependent.

If this is the case than GW2 is more oriented towards the less dependent than your average MMO, but what a lot of people are missing is that there are numerous MMOs out there that already have an ironclad dependency between chars.
WoW and its trinity is a good example – you need all 3 – tank, healer and dps, to succeed.

Now this model is fine and works for WoW but consider the players that came to GW2. They came here to get away from the standard model that WoW has.
They came here to enjoy more freedom and we have that in the game right now.

In a dungeon, at the final boss if 4/5 of the party go down the last player can finish the fight provided he is skilled enough. That can’t happen in WoW or other games where character interdependence is too high.

So while I agree with you that GW2 has less elements forcing you to rely on others I’m trying to point out that this is not a bad thing.
There are numerous MMOs that force this dependency between players out there and very few that give you more freedom as an individual to do good on your own. I feel that GW2 blends the two aspects nicely and I’d hate to see it shift towards a direction where I’m punished if others perform poorly.

GW2 is a game that caters to a different demographic of gamers than your traditional “trinity-role based MMO” – these players came to GW2 for the features that GW2 offers and have stayed with the game for almost 2 years because of it.

Harper.4173:

3)Synergy with CI would be over the top – how did you come up with this one?

You can’t miss Combustive Shot anyway.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The necromancer

-Will never be desired in dungeons, unless they receive a Cleave skill.
-Will never have any use for boon removal in PVE, unless boon removal actually becomes a thing in PVE. Right now it is irrelevant.
-Will never find a good use for conditions in PVE, unless PVE is changed to be not so anti-conditions. The condition cap has to go.
-Will never have a use for control skills in boss battles, unless Defiant/Unshakeable is changed. Right now control skills are rendered useless against bosses.
-Death Shroud will never work well, unless is changed so that it no longer is an obstruction to our class. We should be able to heal in DS (untraited) and we should be able to use our utility skills in DS.

Our class is fundamentally broken in PVE from the ground up. The entire design of PVE contradicts our class’ core features. And yet with any balance podcast, our class is quickly skipped as if it does not matter.

We necromancers feel like a neglected child.

Yep, seems like devs really only care for PvP balance, not a single coment on for making the necro wanted in PvE, and devs saying the necro fills the attrition role and have good sustain just killed my hopes for any improvements to power builds

I’m extremely concerned about how you guys balance the game, even more so after seeing this ready-up. I’m not claiming I know how to balance a game but there’s just things I can’t add up in my head.

You insist on doing baby-step balancing but our balance patches come 2-4 months phases. From what I understand from other games, baby-step balancing only works if you patch frequently.

You mention things like being able to move out of battle should something go wrong, and things like classes being balanced around having other forms of utility. For PvE, this to me suggests that you value things like condition removal and boonstripping in PvE, yet this does not hold true for most of the content, and even after 2 years, we still barely see any content which values things like boons stripping. If balance takes account of things like boons stripping or condition removal, they need to be vital parts of the game. If all the content are just DPS-fests, balance should just revolve around that.

Harper.4173:

While I do not agree with you that the game suffers because of " dps focus " and that this subtracts from the MMO experience for the sake of argument I’ll add something in.

You might consider the fact that MMOs have a range of your character’s dependency on other characters. This range extends from no dependency to completely dependent.

If this is the case than GW2 is more oriented towards the less dependent than your average MMO, but what a lot of people are missing is that there are numerous MMOs out there that already have an ironclad dependency between chars.
WoW and its trinity is a good example – you need all 3 – tank, healer and dps, to succeed.

Now this model is fine and works for WoW but consider the players that came to GW2. They came here to get away from the standard model that WoW has.
They came here to enjoy more freedom and we have that in the game right now.

In a dungeon, at the final boss if 4/5 of the party go down the last player can finish the fight provided he is skilled enough. That can’t happen in WoW or other games where character interdependence is too high.

So while I agree with you that GW2 has less elements forcing you to rely on others I’m trying to point out that this is not a bad thing.
There are numerous MMOs that force this dependency between players out there and very few that give you more freedom as an individual to do good on your own. I feel that GW2 blends the two aspects nicely and I’d hate to see it shift towards a direction where I’m punished if others perform poorly.

GW2 is a game that caters to a different demographic of gamers than your traditional “trinity-role based MMO” – these players came to GW2 for the features that GW2 offers and have stayed with the game for almost 2 years because of it.

Yeah, you have the ‘freedom’ to be a DPS…. some freedom you have there.
Having different roles, and strictly enforcing them in every area of the game are two very different things. And many MMO are too strict when it comes to enforcing these roles, esp since often times there is not much diversity with said roles in order to keep things interesting over a long period of time.

But that’s just the thing, diversity. And that’s precisely what you don’t have really in GW2, everything more or less ends up the same, throw out damage, try not to die.

I would argue that GW1 had vastly more depth and diversity the GW2 ever had, as not only did you have professions with clearly different roles, and could support and supplement each others weaknesses, but at the same time it wasn’t so strict as to enforce it in every instance. You could run with a party full of Assassins if you wanted and knew what you were doing. It was tough, but it was doable.
Now it was more strict in the sense in which you needed a party for everything, but the roles were up to you for the most part.

Games like FF14: ARR honestly make better usage of GW2 event system and dungeons better then it does because roles exist. I find that when running solo you can mostly sustain yourself and get through the content just fine, but as soon things get challenging, such as a FATE event pops up, or you go into a dungeon, you find that you only have enough time to either one thing or another, not both.
Such as being a healer, yeah I can attack and do a bit of damage, or I can heal and do very well at that, but I don’t have enough time or resources to do both, and so I slide into my role naturally without really ever feel like I was forced to do so.

And as soon as your done you go back to being a jack of all trades.

But GW2 doesn’t trust you to make decisions for yourself, so it makes it for you, it expects you to be a DPS, you don’t get the option to be anything else, not if you actually want to be remotely effective or useful.

I just want the roles to exist, and let us figure out how to go about best utilizing them.

• Not having the option to be relied upon. (current)
• Enforcing that you must be relied upon. (most other MMO’s)
• Allowing people to be relied upon but not enforcing it. (what I would like)

Hello, devs
you said warrior should be sustained dps, which hambow PTV does it really well

but warrior has a lot of weapon sets, which means they can’t all have the same play style.
like you said, warrior can’t really move around, and dodge stuff, i think that GS is the perfect weapon for that, you should try to improve GS builds so it can dodge stuff more reliable in a fight, since you nerfed building momentum

Harper.4173:

While I do not agree with you that the game suffers because of " dps focus " and that this subtracts from the MMO experience for the sake of argument I’ll add something in.

You might consider the fact that MMOs have a range of your character’s dependency on other characters. This range extends from no dependency to completely dependent.

If this is the case than GW2 is more oriented towards the less dependent than your average MMO, but what a lot of people are missing is that there are numerous MMOs out there that already have an ironclad dependency between chars.
WoW and its trinity is a good example – you need all 3 – tank, healer and dps, to succeed.

Now this model is fine and works for WoW but consider the players that came to GW2. They came here to get away from the standard model that WoW has.
They came here to enjoy more freedom and we have that in the game right now.

In a dungeon, at the final boss if 4/5 of the party go down the last player can finish the fight provided he is skilled enough. That can’t happen in WoW or other games where character interdependence is too high.

So while I agree with you that GW2 has less elements forcing you to rely on others I’m trying to point out that this is not a bad thing.
There are numerous MMOs that force this dependency between players out there and very few that give you more freedom as an individual to do good on your own. I feel that GW2 blends the two aspects nicely and I’d hate to see it shift towards a direction where I’m punished if others perform poorly.

GW2 is a game that caters to a different demographic of gamers than your traditional “trinity-role based MMO” – these players came to GW2 for the features that GW2 offers and have stayed with the game for almost 2 years because of it.

Yet this creates another even more serious problem. Its fine to cut dependence on other people, its fine to not require a certain class or a certain set-up to do a certain content, but what’s not fine is a shift down to the lowest denominator.

Content in this game doesn’t need condition removal, it doesn’t need boon stripping, it doesn’t need anything. So of course optimised parties just strengthen what they need, the lowest denominator of all content, DPS. Thus classes with higher DPS or group DPS potential are taken, and all other classes are considered sub-optimal, and not wanted.

You shift the need for another class down to exclusion of the class. A complete, unwanted, 180 degree turn.

Considering organised parties are probably like 1% of all dungeons run, why do you even care what we would want? You can form a party of whatever you want, to hell with min-maxing. We don’t even min-max our compositions half the time.

Josh Davis.6015:

…

First of all, thank you guys for this Ready Up. I really enjoyed the stream and getting some insights on how you as developers perceive the classes.

Josh Davis.6015:

…We don’t think warrior should have more mobility…

I got to agree with some others that I coincided with most of the stream until you came to talk about the Warrior. I felt quite a significant disconnect with your general class philosophy and want to give a feedback.

Mobility

While the mobility part might have been community feedback I’m a bit baffled that you guys didn’t mention a disconnect with your philosophy of leaving holes. Based on your description the Thief is the one to jump in and out of fights. For example, Guardians or Necromancers should not be able to do this because of their overall resilience. How does this not apply to Warriors? The suggestion Carighan made – or something like you did to RTL – feels reasonable. Warriors would still be able to engage. But they will have to stay there untill their foe tries to leave. Skills like Rush are quite obviously supposed to close a gap and not to create one.

Josh Davis.6015:

…Warrior Weaknesses…

Boon removal

While most of the strengths are in line with what I personally felt should be a Warriors role I’m having some trouble with the weaknesses. Warriors indeed lack the ability to strip or remove boons. I just wonder if this is a significant enough weakness when considering their strengths which include a sturdy body and a lot of damage which at least soft counter boons of any kind.

Resource management as a weakness

Being reliant on Adrenaline is hardly a serious weakness. It could be a weakness if gaining it would actually pose a problem. From AAing and CI alone your Adrenaline usually fills up fast enough to use your burst skills on cooldown. While CI undoubtly is the main contender Warriors got plenty of trait alternatives to get Adrenaline elsewhere. Adrenaline as resource is also very forgiving since you won’t lose it if you just missfire a skill. Additionally, Adrenaline can’t be negatively affected by your foes.

If we are talking about resource management as a weakness, look at Necros (LF), Mesmers (Illusions) and partly Rangers (Pet). Necros have to build for a sufficient LF gain and just picking up one trait usually isn’t enough (weakness = resource generation). LF can also be drained actively when hit in DS (weakness = resource sustainment). Furthermore, condition Necros have trouble gaining LF in general. Most Mesmers are forced to pick DE to have enough Illusions at their hands (weakness = resource generation) and messing up a shatter is a lot less forgiving than failing a burst skill (weakness = resource application). Even with DE and weapon traits they are unviable in large scale fights because of area effects (weakness = resource sustainment). While pets aren’t a resource per se they provide a not neglectable part of a Ranger’s damage and utility. The Ranger has to work and trait for keeping it alive since it can be killed (weakness = resource sustainment). Pets are also victim of wonky AI issues (weakness = resource application). Adrenaline just keeps flowing.

For me personally, there is a huge disconnect between the intention of having Adrenaline as a weakness and the implementation thereof.

Expiring defenses

The last bullet point is probably the most interesting one to me from a (PvP/WvW) balance perspective. I think it holds true for utility skills. For example, Berserker Stance and Signet of Stamina directly counter conditions and then leave a hole – the weakness to conditions – when they go on cooldown. This also is the case for Defiant Stance and Shield Stance which indirectly counter conditions by preventing their application.

It does not in any way apply to CI. There is no reasonable way for any class to overcome it especially since gaining Adrenaline is that easy (see above). It also outperforms all accessible alternatives. This is one of the main reasons why 20 in Defense is so mandatory for Warriors. CI basically covers something you guys as developers deem to be one of their main weaknesses.

Based on your class philosophy CI should have to be changed so it can actually expire. For example, a cooldown could work well and also has the potential to shake up meta builds with 20 Defense and 30 Discipline. Improve active skills instead if Warriors turn out to be too weak without CI. It might be no fun for Warriors to be in close combat and having trouble with conditions. But is no fun fighting a class which circumvents its supposed weakness that easily either.

I liked the stream. Y, was some missunderstandings in classes abilities, but there are alot of time till balance patch and alot of mature people living good and full descriptions of their classes place in game.

But. They said that WvW, PvP and PvE need balance apart from each other! At last i heard that WvW is one of the game modes that is not PvE and not same as #esports node capping.

Balance the game more for WvW (ofc without harm to other game modes) and you will have alot people coming back to game.

#gvg

I enjoyed the ready up yesterday, I like hearing about design philosophy. It helps broadens the perspective of each class and their role. I’m mainly a guardian player, so my question is about the class.

• Guardian’s strong sustain is via traits i.e AH, Monk’s Focus, Selfless Daring etc

• Radiance trait line has zero sustain, Zeal trait line has very little sustain

• Is it possible for the devs to consider adding more sustain in those lines? Buffing zealous blade to scale with power in zeal for example. Perhaps adding the regen boon to signets upon use for radiance.

For a long time people have been providing feedback on balancing Warriors. This has led a small nerf to Healing Signet and some other small changes. Unfortunately things haven’t changed very much. Hambow warriors still exist and dungeon runs still consists out of warriors (plus FGS elementalists). Warriors seem to be quite dominant throughout the game for a very long time.

It now becomes clear that the developers have a very different view on how to balance Warriors and I feel like this is something that needs to be looked at.

The Ranger pet is nothing but a complete handicap.

• Ranger has less damage
• 24 traits dedicated to the pet
• several utility skills dedicated to the pet (shouts & signets)
• pet keeps Ranger in combat

• worthless in WvW outside of capturing supply camps
• worthless in PvE against champion-level mobs

Get rid of the Ranger pet, it’s a worthless mechanic. I’d take any other class mechanic over it.

While taking a break from the game, I’ve been setting my interest on my alt characters, particularly on my Mesmer, and there are some things that annoy me on it, about its strengths and weaknesses, that has prevented me from playing it more often. Although it’s not my main class, I feel that is actually a good reason for why I might provide some valuable feedback, as I probably am not the only one feeling this way.

Crowd Control
I love crowd control, and I loved to spread Panic, Cry of Pain/ Frustration, Mistrust, Clumsiness and the like over the mobs in GW1. While I agree that Mesmer shouldn’t be getting sustained aoe damage, I think their sustained aoe control is a bit… lacking as well, when it shouldn’t. This is specially a PvE (and perhaps WvW) issue, where there’s a lot of mobs/ zergs to deal with. Currently, most of mesmer’s key utilities are on the support side of the spectrum.

Movement Speed
There are weaknesses that make the class funnier to play, there are others that are more annoying however. Although I agree that in-battle swiftness shouldn’t be their strength, out-of-battle movement speed seems more like a QoL change than a balance change, at least for wvw/ pve. Also, Portal brings great mobility in PvP, where you are constantly going back and forth, than in PvE, where there’s little reason to come back to previous places outside of jumping puzzles.

Clones as resources
This is an interesting one. I love the idea of this weakness, but I feel it’s a bit clumsy. First, AoE countering discriminates mesmers in game modes where aoe is more dominant. Second, an opponent purposefully single-targetting an illusion should both punish and reward them (punish them by giving us valuable time, rewarding them for punishing our resources), but mesmers can spam clones so easily, it stops being a problem. However, they must spam clones easily, or else they’re unplayable anywhere where aoe damage exists. I feel that they’re way too weak at aoe, and not weak enough at single target focus. I think it would make this profession more fluid, across all game modes, if this issue was normalized: give clones less health, create incentives for players to not always pick clone-generating skills/ traits, but add some aoe resistance. Overall, they should still be weak to aoe (although a bit less so), but certainly targeting illusions one by one should be a more rewarding effort (for the opponent), instead of being a waste of time.

Too much emphasis on Mesmer’s duelist playstyle
Although I love using sword and greatsword with Mesmer, Anet seems to forgot that there are players who also enjoy pure spellcasting mesmers too. I say this not because scepter is weak at the moment, but because it plays weird. Its third skill is brilliant, and brings the best out of GW1 and GW2 (telegraphed, slow and channeled; purity of purpose and elegance; crowd control, punishment), but then it’s wasted on a weapon with a direct damage AA and a block. Playing with scepter feels like playing with a melee weapon sometimes. But this is more of an unfocused design issue than a balance issue. This weapon should feel more like pure magical, even in its active defenses, than a hybrid melee/ magical-ish weapon. Especially when players are begging for mesmers to be given a MH pistol and the like someday. Scepter is Anet’s best opportunity to make them a bit closer to their GW1 counterpart, but the block and the AA seem out of flavor with the confusion and the torment.

Conclusion
Mesmer generally feels more clumsy/ restricting outside of PvP. I think Anet balanced and designed this profession too much around a PvP environment, and have not given enough QoL changes to make it more fluid in PvE/ WvW. I think Anet should think deeply about how the Mesmer is played in a more crowded environment (outside of giving them “more aoe damage!”), by rethinking how their strenghts and weaknesses work (or should work) outside of pvp.

DiogoSilva.7089:

While taking a break from the game, I’ve been setting my interest on my alt characters, particularly on my Mesmer, and there are some things that annoy me on it, about its strengths and weaknesses, that has prevented me from playing it more often. Although it’s not my main class, I feel that is actually a good reason for why I might provide some valuable feedback, as I probably am not the only one feeling this way.

Crowd Control
I love crowd control, and I loved to spread Panic, Cry of Pain/ Frustration, Mistrust, Clumsiness and the like over the mobs in GW1. While I agree that Mesmer shouldn’t be getting sustained aoe damage, I think their sustained aoe control is a bit… lacking as well, when it shouldn’t. This is specially a PvE (and perhaps WvW) issue, where there’s a lot of mobs/ zergs to deal with. Currently, most of mesmer’s key utilities are on the support side of the spectrum.

CC in GW2 do not control anything. They are fighting game combo breakers (interrupts) with a bit of CC flavoring so that people may still think they are playing a MMORPG.

Holland.9351:

The Ranger pet is nothing but a complete handicap.

• Ranger has less damage
• 24 traits dedicated to the pet
• several utility skills dedicated to the pet (shouts & signets)
• pet keeps Ranger in combat

• worthless in WvW outside of capturing supply camps
• worthless in PvE against champion-level mobs

Get rid of the Ranger pet, it’s a worthless mechanic. I’d take any other class mechanic over it.

Hey, at least we don’t have adrenaline! According to Anet that’s a big Achilles heel to Warrior!! Just think of the nightmare of a warrior that DOESNT use adrenaline for all their skills!

Some core problems I had with the discussion:

• The balance philosophy was too much focused on per profession, and not per spec.
  F.e. Warrior sustain vs burst: depending on the spec.

• Hard counter: Single utility to counter a specific action is NOT what hard counter are about. The thing was about whole specs being able to dominate other specs like S/D Thiefs over mesmer or necros over other condition classes.

• “should a certain profession be stronger, since it is harder to play?” – yes and no.
  In the comparison profession A vs profession B: no
  Just because the skill floor of the ele is higher than other, does not mean, he should dominate every 1on1.
  In the comparison spec A vs spec B from the same profession: yes
  A warrior using stances should be rewarded vs a warrior only using signets.

Swagg.9236:

Having two skills that are almost always off cool-down, very easy to build to full power, and possess zero synergy with other weapon-related skills does not describe the phrase “reliant on a mechanic.” Warrior’s mechanic isn’t adrenaline, it’s passive healing and godmode. GW1 had a Warrior that was dependent on a pool of adrenaline.

Maybe some of their skills (signets, shouts) need to depend on their level of adrenaline for scaled output, so that if they try to burst and fail, they are somewhat kitten. This would put their sustain at a more tolerable level, and create opportunities for reactive play, at least to a point.

Durzlla.6295:

Hey, at least we don’t have adrenaline! According to Anet that’s a big Achilles heel to Warrior!! Just think of the nightmare of a warrior that DOESNT use adrenaline for all their skills!

Haha, so true. Really made me chuckle.

Yoh.8469:

Yeah, you have the ‘freedom’ to be a DPS…. some freedom you have there.
Having different roles, and strictly enforcing them in every area of the game are two very different things. And many MMO are too strict when it comes to enforcing these roles, esp since often times there is not much diversity with said roles in order to keep things interesting over a long period of time.

But that’s just the thing, diversity. And that’s precisely what you don’t have really in GW2, everything more or less ends up the same, throw out damage, try not to die.

I would argue that GW1 had vastly more depth and diversity the GW2 ever had, as not only did you have professions with clearly different roles, and could support and supplement each others weaknesses, but at the same time it wasn’t so strict as to enforce it in every instance. You could run with a party full of Assassins if you wanted and knew what you were doing. It was tough, but it was doable.
Now it was more strict in the sense in which you needed a party for everything, but the roles were up to you for the most part.

Games like FF14: ARR honestly make better usage of GW2 event system and dungeons better then it does because roles exist. I find that when running solo you can mostly sustain yourself and get through the content just fine, but as soon things get challenging, such as a FATE event pops up, or you go into a dungeon, you find that you only have enough time to either one thing or another, not both.
Such as being a healer, yeah I can attack and do a bit of damage, or I can heal and do very well at that, but I don’t have enough time or resources to do both, and so I slide into my role naturally without really ever feel like I was forced to do so.

And as soon as your done you go back to being a jack of all trades.

But GW2 doesn’t trust you to make decisions for yourself, so it makes it for you, it expects you to be a DPS, you don’t get the option to be anything else, not if you actually want to be remotely effective or useful.

I just want the roles to exist, and let us figure out how to go about best utilizing them.

• Not having the option to be relied upon. (current)
• Enforcing that you must be relied upon. (most other MMO’s)
• Allowing people to be relied upon but not enforcing it. (what I would like)

The moment a role is created players will enforce it if it is the optimal way of clearing content.

Guardians now can afford doing a dungeon without doing full support ( in the sense of tanky gear and healing that people seem to view support as) but if the meta changes because a few guardians want that to be their " role " then the majority of guardians will be forced into this role whether they want to or not.
Who’ll force them? The rest of the players who want maximum rewards with the least amount of time spent.

Also – lol at your party full of assassins. This is exactly the kind of issue that keeps people misinformed.
We have the same diversity today – you can run with a party of anything in any gear and still do content fairly easily – easier than your 8x assassins in GW1.

What you forgot to mention is that normally assassins were bad in PVE content. So bad that people shunned them and didn’t take them with the exception of one build – permasin.
The invincible -tank everything and never die permasin was the only “meta” build for assassins in PVE – and if you weren’t doing that you’d be forced into it or not taken along.

That was the diversity of GW1.

Same was with monks – while theoretically you could DPS as monk ( and even do a good job) if you wanted to do that 90% of parties would kick or tell you to get real and do prot/healing.

What you feel is sliding into your role naturally is forced for other players. You feel that’s your “natural” role because that’s what you want to play.
Consider this – the DPS oriented players that play GW2 have “naturally” slid into their roles in GW2 and feel comfortable with it.

What we have now is this : Allowing people to be relied upon but not enforcing it. – You can get through a dungeon without might stacking, reflects, stealth, healing, and mostly zero team play. You can do it with a team faster but it’s not enforced by the game.

You can finish any content faster if you work together with others, but you’re not forced to do it – that’s the current system.

Swagg.9236:

Yes, because something with player input on the level of wavedashing, rocket-jumping, mind-gaming someone in a fighting game, tribe skiing or even just aiming is definitely comparable to “press button; hit opponent.”

Pity-posting a video of Diago styling on Justin a decade ago won’t make you any less wrong.

I posted the video to remind you you’re in the wrong place. Also, you keep saying “press button; hit opponent”, which leads me to believe you truly are ignorant of some of the nuanced mechanics in the game, like projectiles. It would be akin to me talking about Q3A and making it looking “shooting where someone is going to land” is the only application of rockets, while you sit there thinking “This guy doesn’t even know rocket jumping exists”.

In that case, why would you listen to me? In this case, why would I listen to you? I work in an industry where buzzwords flow like wine. They may impress a community of gamers who like hearing hyped up phrases and imagine themselves winning tournaments and becoming e-famous, but spamming them in an argument is no better than your typical MMO pre-release hype-train marketing technique.

But at least I know why you are doing what you are doing now: you had a different idea for GW2 in your head based on the hype, it didn’t live up, and now you’re holding that against it forever. Perhaps someone should tell you that a game isn’t a failure if it doesn’t live up to your personal expectations, though I’m sure you’ll just assume all of the players who DO enjoy it are blind bads.

I used to think purely technical demonstrations were impressive displays of skill, too, until I realized that simply pressing buttons in a certain order is a matter of muscle memory. True skill is in the application, in my opinion, and subtle application is as skillful as flashy application. It just might not make the shoutcasters scream as loudly.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Yet this creates another even more serious problem. Its fine to cut dependence on other people, its fine to not require a certain class or a certain set-up to do a certain content, but what’s not fine is a shift down to the lowest denominator.

Content in this game doesn’t need condition removal, it doesn’t need boon stripping, it doesn’t need anything. So of course optimised parties just strengthen what they need, the lowest denominator of all content, DPS. Thus classes with higher DPS or group DPS potential are taken, and all other classes are considered sub-optimal, and not wanted.

You shift the need for another class down to exclusion of the class. A complete, unwanted, 180 degree turn.

The problem here is that the game is too simple. Simple because the player base it caters too is hypercasual in their majority. That’s why you don’t see more complex mechanics such as boon stripping and other stuff.

You could have dungeon mechanics that promote skillful play without even touching the encounter simply by adding traps and jumping elements that a bad player can’t navigate.

You could improve on the system a lot and make content require more than " just dps" but the " just dps" is derived from the fact that the common denominator in player skill is hit 1, hit stuff, hope not to die.

If the game was made harder it would be the bane of casual players – and casual players are the majority in this game. More so – they are the paying majority.

I believe that making an overall statement of profession can be fun and all, but it won’t be valuable.

The problem are… Statistics and Gear.

In a game like, let’s say, World of Warcraft what you have is a set of stats usable for DPS, Tank or Healer.

Apart from Gear’s there are also “secondary” stats and effects certain items do, but they can be easily switched.

Now, in that case making a “Design Philosophy” makes a lot of sense. Each player with equal quality gear in competitive modes has exact same stats or very close to that.

But in Guild Wars 2 there are multiple statistics. I knew, even before release, that this thing will create a lot of trouble for Developers and players, hardly to overcome. And it did, look at Berserker Gear dominating PvE etc.

It’s easier to balance and say what certain spec can/should do when everyone is equal. Now when you add multiple stat and gear variations at “end-game” stage this task is no longer doable. There’s no “archetype”, no “profession” especially when many effects are not profession specific, but game-wide (Conditions, Boons, CCs etc.).

There are only Builds.

Devs, the way you see the proffesions is not the way they are. I can only speak for warrior and Thief as I play only those proffesions. Warriors can burst IMMENSE damage. Thieves are great at long fights with perma dodge.