Ready Up: Counterplay to New Illusionary Leap
The best way is probably to make a leaping clone animation so that the opponent can react to that.
What’s the “counterplay” to flashing blade, judges intervention, infiltrators strike or steal? Compared to those skills, iLeap is still countered pretty easily. In fact, it’s the only skill mentioned that can be countered at all. The clone still can be killed, and the swap still has delay.
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
The best way is probably to make a leaping clone animation so that the opponent can react to that.
Its to hard.. they cant fix Rush for warrior also (like most terrain skills, they also dont remake it like they do for mesmers now)
It just waaay to hard for them to fix the skill so better give it an instant in your face type of skill so it always works..
Balancing.. Next
I think its fine. And besides I doubt sw/x will oust staff/GS in the meta shatter builds since staff gives so much defenisve positioning that shatter mesmers need.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
counter play to imob is condi cleanse.. its a condition
counter play to imob is condi cleanse.. its a condition
So can warriors have the old “pin down” back?
Remember?
Because well thats an condition also right?…
All they need is to allow counter play is have a simple cool down once you cast illusionary leap, before you can cast swap.
The Problem: A clone appears next to you and you suddenly can’t move.
The Solution: Blocking / Invulnerability / Skill with built-in evade / Cleanse immobilize and dodge / Teleport away
The Problem: A clone appears next to you and you suddenly can’t move.
The Solution: Blocking / Invulnerability / Skill with built-in evade / Cleanse immobilize and dodge / Teleport away
Yeah but that works vs the old pin down also..
So can i have the old pin down back?
NO? why not? whats the difference..
The clone applies cripple, not immob. It’s the swap part that does that. Once you see the clone next to you, dodge away.
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
All they need is to allow counter play is have a simple cool down once you cast illusionary leap, before you can cast swap.
I agree with this, but this will cause most mesmers to opine for the old iLeap that couldn’t just be walked away from.
And to people saying “what about steal, JI, flashing blade, etc.” None of these skills root your opponent for 2s (which prevents dodging). Even traited steal only dazes you (which doesn’t prevent dodging). Stunbreaks are common. Instant condi-clears are harder to come-by, and you WILL need an instant or else the burst will land and you are dead.
The clone applies cripple, not immob. It’s the swap part that does that. Once you see the clone next to you, dodge away.
Previously, you had to dodge the leap of the clone b/c the swap couldn’t happen until after that. Now, there is nothing stopping the mesmer from swapping IMMEDIATELY after summoning, giving you no visual tell to dodge.
Top players have been asking for: more tells on skills and fewer instants leading to more counterplay.
Its disheartening when the opposite is delivered.
What makes this a bit too strong in my opinion, is that swap will also break stun, as well as immobilize.
hmm. its the same skill as before it always broke stun.. this kittening is horrid. the fact that you dont have a human projectile yelling hey im going to leap soon is a reason that it is too strong? how many skills in game were as telegraphed as the old i leap and you never heard mesmers crying about that.. the fact that it is still clone based and spawns something at you still leaves this skill more telegraphed then anything that dosent involve a clone + casting animation.. you are lucky its not just casting animation then you are imob. like any other professions skill would be
like necro dagger imob.. like pindown. like every imob skill that isnt mesmer. they just cast then imob..
@BlackBeard
Except that the first part of the skill has a 3/4s casttime (aftercast). The clone pops up at the beginning of the skill, but the casttime still has to finish. That’s how it is atm.
Even with the change, there’ll be at least a ~3/4s window to react. If there’s any AoE going on in your area, you don’t have to react at all, the clone will die instantly. Maybe enhancing the casttime a bit sounds fair, but I highly disagree on additional CD between the clone and the swap. Cause that will just add up with the casttime, even 1 more second will add up to almost 2 seconds (or more). That’s plenty, if not too much time to dodge or press auto attack and would make it nearly as useless as it is currently.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I wouldn’t be so serious about this skill/fix if it wasn’t the only gap closer for Mesmers – but it is (if you don’t take blink into account).
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
(edited by tetrodoxin.2134)
To use iLeap intentionally as stun break you have to see at least 1.5 seconds into the future.
I would say skilled play.
Kill the clone and no swap will happen. It will actually be easier now that the clone spawn right next to you, just use #1.
hmm. its the same skill as before it always broke stun.. this kittening is horrid. the fact that you dont have a human projectile yelling hey im going to leap soon is a reason that it is too strong? how many skills in game were as telegraphed as the old i leap and you never heard mesmers crying about that..
Every engineer bomb
Kill shot
Every engineer turret (3s delay once placed before they attack)
Earthshaker (Literally a human projectile flying your way)
Every ranger F2 pet skill in the game
Barrage
Ranger traps.
Necro marks
Necro wells
All guardian spirit weapons.
Thief traps
Magnet
Just to name a few. So stop over stating everything in such a dramatic manner.
On your second claim, your a flat out liar, not because you claim mesmers never cry about other professions skills telegraph, but because it literally only took me to get to the second page of your post history to find a post in which you are doing it yourself.
The first part of the skill has a 3/4s casttime (aftercast). The clone pops up at the beginning of the skill, but the casttime still has to finish. That’s how it is atm.
Any good mesmer cancel casts to insta-swap after the clone is out. It’s great that Mesmers are getting more reliable ways to deal damage (this plus greatsword mind stab), but something will be needed because potential instant 2+ second immob is not okay.
It’s hard to tell how the skill will function without playing with it first though.
Dodge roll?
The clone doesn’t imob you. The clone doesn’t really do anything by itself. It’s the swap that will happen a second later which you have to watch out for.
You see the clone appear on you, dodge. It’s pretty quick, but that’s hardly unique to this skill.
how quick is it to avoid steal.. or shadow step. ? is ileap a better skill then steal that it is in some way broken. its a clone based shadow step with 2 second imob. that is it.
About 12 threads down in this sub forum is a list of ways to counter play Illusionary Leap. Just subtract the counter play to do with the clone leap/pathing issues, and you’ve still got a bunch more ways to counter this than you have other teleporting/leap skills.
Everything will be fine. Mesmers will just have a reliable gap closer, which means you just have to dodge it more. If you can dodge Infiltrators Strike, Steal or Flashing Blade, I guarantee that you will be able to dodge Illusionary Leap.
Gandara
About 12 threads down in this sub forum is a list of ways to counter play Illusionary Leap. Just subtract the counter play to do with the clone leap/pathing issues, and you’ve still got a bunch more ways to counter this than you have other teleporting/leap skills.
Everything will be fine. Mesmers will just have a reliable gap closer, which means you just have to dodge it more. If you can dodge Infiltrators Strike, Steal or Flashing Blade, I guarantee that you will be able to dodge Illusionary Leap.
^This.
Daliriant, Dr Octogon [Champion Illusionist]
Mellowpuff [Champion Hunter]
Mellowpuff [Champion Hunter]
So much QQ cuz Mesmers can actually reliably set up a shatter.
If I can out play steal and infiltrator strikes into bigger burst than a Mesmer can possibly pull off, surely you can out play a clone popping into your face version.
But since you scrubs can’t think for yourself or can’t check other topics:
Tons of counter play to I-leap after the change.
Any sort of damage to kill the clone will disallow the swap (so AoE or any type of heavy auto attack cleave)
You can doge as it pops up in your face.
You can condi clense.
you can interupt the mesmer.
you can out play the shatter itself instead of the swap.
you can use any mobility or location changing based skills to clear the distance of the swap.
This is only to name a few via a copy pasta from another thread.
get creative and l2p with all your skills.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
(edited by Daishi.6027)
The best way is probably to make a leaping clone animation so that the opponent can react to that.
Its to hard.. they cant fix Rush for warrior also (like most terrain skills, they also dont remake it like they do for mesmers now)
It just waaay to hard for them to fix the skill so better give it an instant in your face type of skill so it always works..
There’s a substantial difference between leaping a character which can raise above ground and pathing NPCs which are glued to the ground and stall at the slightest bump.
20 level 80s and counting.
I suspect the easiest thing is to block the swap. You won’t get immobilized that way. Or dodge it, ofc.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
So much QQ cuz Mesmers can actually reliably set up a shatter.
If I can out play steal and infiltrator strikes into bigger burst than a Mesmer can possibly pull off, surely you can out play a clone popping into your face version.
Inf. strike is on a weapon set that lacks any burst to follow it up with (and is shorter immob), and traited steal merely dazes (and doesn’t prevent dodging). Any other instant port skill does not inherently cc your opponent. Instead, tell me how well you outplay panic strike (a better analog) without using phase retreat. Also, if you think thief burst is harder than mesmer shatter burst, I question how well you have learned shatter.
Any sort of damage to kill the clone will disallow the swap (so AoE or any type of heavy auto attack cleave)
Instant swap on creation. There is no leap animation anymore and no time to kill it.
You can doge as it pops up in your face.
Poor visual tell. Swap may proc before you even see a clone.
You can condi clense.
Instant condi cleanses have CD much greater than this skill.
you can interupt the mesmer.
Not everyone has shocking aura to interrupt blurred frenzy, which evades everything.
you can out play the shatter itself instead of the swap.
This doesn’t mean anything. If you don’t outplay the swap, you eat the full burst and game over.
you can use any mobility or location changing based skills to clear the distance of the swap.
The swap is instant, you will have to dodge the cast of the skill. Once the clone is next to you, its already too late, and the clone no longer has to actually travel to you.
This is only to name a few via a copy pasta from another thread.
get creative and l2p with all your skills.
The point is that proper shatter bursts, currently, require skill to set-up, and have good animations (when it doesn’t bug) to allow excellent counterplay. Reducing the animation and the counterplay just makes shatter even easier and way stronger. Fewer instant skills and more animations are a great thing for the game.
What’s the “counterplay” to flashing blade, judges intervention, infiltrators strike or steal? Compared to those skills, iLeap is still countered pretty easily. In fact, it’s the only skill mentioned that can be countered at all. The clone still can be killed, and the swap still has delay.
Not every skill needs counter play, but critical/important skills are usually better off with some solid counterplay. Steal is a high CD skill. For a Mesmer in the context of using a sword, immobilize is crucial to set up bursts (even phantasm mesmers use it to guarantee landing an iduelist etc… let alone shatter). Making there be almost 0 counter play on such a powerful skill that’s easily repeated, on a class that’s already considered op in things such as 1v1s? That’s maybe not a good idea.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
iLeap needed some love to be honest. Staff/Gs is really powerful for ranged kiting, and requires really good positioning to be effective. Sword is a better choice against thieves, but it’s more risky in team fights.
This change would make Mesmers better at spiking the enemy damage dealers, but in team fights, staff/Gs is still the best choice.
Powerpuff Girls [PPG]
Trixxi Is Cute – Purple Fhaz: your daily roamer
Trixxi Is Cute – Purple Fhaz: your daily roamer
What’s the “counterplay” to flashing blade, judges intervention, infiltrators strike or steal? Compared to those skills, iLeap is still countered pretty easily. In fact, it’s the only skill mentioned that can be countered at all. The clone still can be killed, and the swap still has delay.
exactly this . i main a mesmer , and this is really a good buff that is neccessary.
counter play to imob is condi cleanse.. its a condition
So can warriors have the old “pin down” back?
Remember?
Because well thats an condition also right?…
Sure, as soon as 75% or more of all your weapon’s damage isn’t invested into mindlessly spammed autoattacks.
since when were mesmers good in 1 vs 1 , we get easily wrecked by condi players, thieves and meditation guards for example . judge intervention doesnt even have an animation so how can we avoid that ? u know what ? lets make the leap like judge intervention , then we talk
As well, iLeap doesn’t do any damage to worry about. I honestly do not see much of a problem with it at this point.
All it does is teleport the mesmer. Which should be enough notice to avoid what ever damage attack is actually coming next.
As well, iLeap doesn’t do any damage to worry about. I honestly do not see much of a problem with it at this point.
All it does is teleport the mesmer. Which should be enough notice to avoid what ever damage attack is actually coming next.
Its not the damage that is the problem, its the fact that swap gives a 2s root and is an incredibly easy setup for blurred-frenzy+shatter burst K.O. combo. Taking away the tell of the immobilize removes the counterplay a great deal.
well the clone still has to land the hit before you swap, so it’s the same, really, just more reliable.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
As well, iLeap doesn’t do any damage to worry about. I honestly do not see much of a problem with it at this point.
All it does is teleport the mesmer. Which should be enough notice to avoid what ever damage attack is actually coming next.
Its not the damage that is the problem, its the fact that swap gives a 2s root and is an incredibly easy setup for blurred-frenzy+shatter burst K.O. combo. Taking away the tell of the immobilize removes the counterplay a great deal.
Yeah, I wasn’t thinking about that. I have to agree, the immobilize is a bit over the top in my opinion as well.
counter play to imob is condi cleanse.. its a condition
Yes, except its 2 seconds (base) which covers the entire duration of blurred frenzy which is a very threatening skill.
The fact that the clone just appears now with a split second delay for the swap just means a free pass to blurred frenzy now. Really nothing to counter against this except retaliation or teleports or massive condition removal because I highly doubt immobilze will be the only condition you are suffering from.
Blinding blade/infiltrator’s strike/judges intervention don’t stun break, or fit into a perfect combo like rooting your foe for a heavy cleave. Infi strike → pw immobilize combo doesn’t hit as reliably (immobilize wears off quick unless you invest into it) nor does it guarantee a full hitting channel because the stun is only 33% of the channel vs 100%. Please try again.
(P.S. retaliation effects pistol whip too so quit the Q.Q against “downing yourself”. Quit pretending your the special child that only gets nerfs, its pathetic.)
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
(edited by NinjaEd.3946)
So much QQ cuz Mesmers can actually reliably set up a shatter.
If I can out play steal and infiltrator strikes into bigger burst than a Mesmer can possibly pull off, surely you can out play a clone popping into your face version.
Inf. strike is on a weapon set that lacks any burst to follow it up with (and is shorter immob), and traited steal merely dazes (and doesn’t prevent dodging).
I laughed.