Guild Wars 2

problem 1 heavies:

Really do this….

For any dungeon run it with 5 full zerk of the same profession…

EX 5 eles…
5 rangers
5 necros
5 GUARDIANS
5 WARRIORS etc…

You Always refused to deal with the real problem of heavy armors….but 5 ZERK full offensive eles will probably melt at the first boss because as soon as an ele runs out of evades, it can t even sustain the lightest damage…..it just get usually mitigated by party buffs etc.

Same will happen with most party comps…..except for few profession that can have support, defense and offense all in the same zerk build.

Eles, mesmers etc are good and nice until there are warriors and guardians in party….
Remove them and they suddenly become way less viable.

Problem 2 Ranged fight:
Ranged combat needs to exist….stacking makes everything too easy and the boss design of being easier at melee its even worse.

Problem 3 Aggro:
Add a decent aggro mechanic…..
The pvp balance making ranged to deal less damage paired with PvE “AI” making ranged worthless….

Problem 5 stacking:
Why bosses are easier in melee?
Since melee parties can stack easily boons and ress easier doesn t make much sense….

Stop thinking of “most used stuff need to be nerfed”….
Consider PvE has equioment and since you introduced grindy equipment, a straight nerf in the usual anet style (see signature) can cause more harm than good.

P.S. I know 5 rangers and 5 eles etc are still “viable” but they require skill…and its right that skilled players can kill stuff faster.
The class requirement in PUG LFG clealry shows the issue is with some profession being all around AND too easy….

Not this again…

O.K. Let me explain it in math terms:

The base armor of the light armor classes, at level 80 and in exotics is 1836. The base armor for medium classes is 1980. The base armor for heavy classes is 2127. This means, that, comparing light to medium armor, medium armor only takes away 7.2% of damage. Comparing light to heavy, heavy armor only takes away 13.7% of damage.

This makes armor wholly insignificant when compared to HP tiers. Compare low HP (10,805) to medium (15,082), medium takes 28.4% less damage than light (as a function of damage done / total HP). High HP (18,372) takes only 41.2% less damage than low HP.

Heavy armor doesn’t mean squat. The fact is that guardians have the lowest HP tier, and because of this they have less statistical bulk that mesmers, rangers, engineers, and necromancers despite having more armor.

What makes warriors and guardians so useful are their utilities. Of course, the most elite guilds usually run a party with a makeup like ele, mesmer, guardian, thief, warrior. The whole “heavy” meta is only enforced by people who haven’t bothered to do the math, and haven’t bothered to ask someone who can do the math.

While i agree on the utility part and never said that its about armors..

This part is totally false:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The whole “heavy” meta is only enforced by people who haven’t bothered to do the math, and haven’t bothered to ask someone who can do the math.

Its easy to see why Dps tests are totally misleading, for anyone with some experience with various professions.

Theorycrafting at his best since most zerk builds melts if hit by for example spider queen Attacks….without proper support.

Take 5 eles with something along
30/10/10/10/10

See if you can finish a run of AC2 (not even a difficult dungeon)…..

Having other profession filling the 5th or if you are lucky the 4th slot is not “being viable”.

Warrior was unnecessary. Its just as easy on p2.

0:48…..tells me this video is not meeting requirements.

not that i wrote p2 because its difficult (its maybe the easiest)…..

Hints : conditions….and your bar.

step one to the problem: Don’t use exploits to trick the system, and the bosses which we do this, will certainly show a lot more challenging.
step 2: ?
step3: problem solved, and the game is better than ever right?

warllockmaster.1379:

step one to the problem: Don’t use exploits to trick the system, and the bosses which we do this, will certainly show a lot more challenging.
step 2: ?
step3: problem solved, and the game is better than ever right?

Ah, yea. Exploits called being in melee range.

well fgs is indeed a glitch.
And the bad AI is indeed explooited but that is not even the issue….

So let me give you a short summary. If you are in melee range you exploit because she doesn’t use venom spray and if you are in high range you also exploit because she doesn’t use entangling web. So the only way to not exploit this boss is to have at least 1 melee and 1 range character so that she would use all of her skills.

wouldn t be good to have BOTH ranged and melee combat in the game?

Its boring just because the game makes it boring and pointless.
What about for example giving a permanent null field to bosses with 200 range and deleting the range trigger disabling certain attacks?

Stacking wouldn t give those fancy boons anymore…

LordByron.8369:

wouldn t be good to have BOTH ranged and melee combat in the game?

It would be but they need to increase a punishment for being a ranged. Right now there’s none because bosses often stick to their closest attackers. Unless you prefer a system similar to the one that is present in other mmos, where dps (here ranged players) are being carried by tanks (here melee players) except that tanks have to take care of themselves by themselves instead of relying on healers.

Its boring just because the game makes it boring and pointless.

How does it make a game pointless? If people have fun that it’s not pointless because that’s the ultimate reason for games to exist.

What about for example giving a permanent null field to bosses with 200 range and deleting the range trigger disabling certain attacks? Stacking wouldn t give those fancy boons anymore…

You wouldn’t only get rid of stacking but also melee combat which would only dumb down this game even further (if that’s even possible).

It was bit amusing last night on fotm. First Mossman, I dance at melee (aggro most of the time) while everyone pew pews at range. Then, Uncategorized with Ettin, same stuff (except permanent aggro).

As if that wasn’t enough Guardian almost got me killed on Ettin. I sometimes eat big hits and then use Defiant Stance to heal up on the next one. Well, Guardian decided to “help” me with Aegis which wasted my heal and left me at ~15% health.

Great design, right?

still better than having melee tanking supporting ressing and doing dps….

Doesn t sound a deep gameplay to me…
The most similar thing to that nowaday are guardian and mesmer immob skills to keep a target still .

Haviz you Always say how easy and dumb this game is…yet i Always here you defending current system…..

Melee even without buffs will do more dps than ranged….and again we perfectly know that melee full buffed dps melt most bosses so fast that you can kill them before going on full CD with utilities AND having to deal with boss mechanics.

LordByron.8369:

still better than having melee tanking supporting ressing and doing dps….

Doesn t sound a deep gameplay to me…
The most similar thing to that nowaday are guardian and mesmer immob skills to keep a target still .

So 4 people pewpewing from the distance with 1 person doing all the job is better than all 5 people doing a bit less job? There’s absolutely no teamwork involved in there. I cannot agree with that. Imagine you are the only melee person in the party and you go down. The whole responsibility for the wipe lies on you.

Keeping the target still is trivial, especially now that you can stack immobilize up to 3 times. Let’s not even brought chill and cripple which certain classes are able to permanently provide (yes, that includes our lovely eles).

Ever seen how to kill Shoggroth the least paintful?

Haviz you Always say how easy and dumb this game is…yet i Always here you defending current system…..

Because you propose even worse changes. The game is too easy but often your propositions would make it even more trivial. Changes are needed but different.

Melee even without buffs will do more dps than ranged….and again we perfectly know that melee full buffed dps melt most bosses so fast that you can kill them before going on full CD with utilities AND having to deal with boss mechanics.

But ranged with buffs will do more dps than melee without it. And that’s what you would get, because ranged characters do not have to kite and be separated from each others when someone else is having aggro. So more damage, no risk and for a guy in melee less damage and full risk. Doesn’t make sense.

just to ask…..
could you macro an entire kohler/spiderqueen fight with a warrior if you have a guardian doing his job?

i bet yes.

In most fights warrior has just to rotate his skills t obtain the most dps without even looking at screen…
That is the reason why LFG is full of LFwarriors.

And i also suggested to give ranged Attacks prioritizing ranged targets that can t be easily evaded at melee.

at least you would NEED 1 ranged…

There are several ways to change the meta…i still have to hear a constructuve suggestion from you…..

Most of your objection seems more for the sake of arguing…..yet you complain a lot of the pve state.

What have macros to do anything with this?

I gave a lot of suggestion, not my fault you don’t read everything.

You are here saying any profession is fine, and in the other thread debating heavies are too strong…

Also the most common thing i read in your post is:

I did this, i did that…..to answer any objection.

Too often you say exactly the same things i said just to argue with someone other saying the opposite….and then say the opposite to argue with me.

I never said ele is fine, you must be confusing me for someone else. On top of this, in this thread, I stated nothing about any professions except saying that ele can provide permanent cripple.

heavies not ele……
Why are you arguing on the same thing you wrote on the other topic?

risk/reward balance of heavies

I’m not arguing here about any heavies. You are mistaking ranger vs melee discussion with heavies. That makes completely no sense to me. Every class is ranged as well as melee.

why yyou say anything range is “boring”

It akes no sense…
There are so many ways to make give range a meaning.

Because currently playing ranged together with melee users is equal to attacking a dummy. You enjoy it?

Lupicus ranged is more fun than melee.
You have to react and answer more stuff….positioning and timing are also important.

Meleeing most stuff isn t more difficult or more fun than ranging…its only way faster…reason why nobody ever do it unless with bad pugs.

Watch my solo here:

Take note of the lag and sloppy weapon rotations. When I watch it back I literally find myself cringing at how close some of the dodges are (seriously, screw having to connect to ****ing dallas to play).

Now are you honestly saying camping range and pewpewing is more interesting than living on the edge like that?

post a vid of you ranging lupi then we can talk about it
why so many melee solo and almost any ranged?

Can you "camp and pew pew2 lupi or you never tried it?
because afaik is not easier.

LordByron.8369:

post a vid of you ranging lupi then we can talk about it
why so many melee solo and almost any ranged?

Can you "camp and pew pew2 lupi or you never tried it?
because afaik is not easier.

http://youtu.be/nEC2CmIcBD8

It takes longer and if you the attacks why would you kitten yourself by going ranged. Also obviously you cant afk range solo lupi seeing as he will always try to catch up to you.

what are we exactly arguing about after this vid?
aside proving my points

I cant exactly see how running away from lupi and avoiding most of his attacks in p1 and p2 is more fun than meleeing. Also when it takes that long how can you not die of boredom?

haviz.1340:

LordByron.8369:

wouldn t be good to have BOTH ranged and melee combat in the game?

It would be but they need to increase a punishment for being a ranged. Right now there’s none because bosses often stick to their closest attackers. Unless you prefer a system similar to the one that is present in other mmos, where dps (here ranged players) are being carried by tanks (here melee players) except that tanks have to take care of themselves by themselves instead of relying on healers.

Its boring just because the game makes it boring and pointless.

How does it make a game pointless? If people have fun that it’s not pointless because that’s the ultimate reason for games to exist.

What about for example giving a permanent null field to bosses with 200 range and deleting the range trigger disabling certain attacks? Stacking wouldn t give those fancy boons anymore…

You wouldn’t only get rid of stacking but also melee combat which would only dumb down this game even further (if that’s even possible).

I suggest removing you rethink your position.

In fairness in other games you are correct – Melee has at a higher risk then ranged in terms of dps.

In gw2 – Melee has more utility and survivability in melee range then a ranged player t ranged does.

First off the dodge mechanic pretty much removes 90% of the risk being involved in melee. Second add stability, aegis, regens, retals, reflects and the list goes on and on and it ends up being melee is at less of a risk then ranged. I can melee in this game and pretty much fall asleep it’s so easy.

Ranged combat in this game is a joke and quite frankly needs to be buffed substantially across the board in PvE. The difference in dps output is far to wide a gap and there is evidence it needs to be as great especially with my above comment.

The entire argument about melee being “harder” to play or “at more risk” has been proven in countless other posts to be false.

I disagree. The problem is not about zerkers or support/control being underpowered (which sorta is a problem), but instead the fact that boss encounters don’t require anything more than dps to beat it. There’s no reason to bring a beefy character or a healing support because encounters are designed around burning them down ASAP.

As soon as ANet stops with these boring encounter designs and focuses on making the other two roles important, zerker characters will always reign supreme. Again, zerker’s aren’t the problem. ANet’s current encounter design is.

Lupicus solo videos are probably one of the worst possible examples to discuss about melee vs range.
For the last 2 phases, Lupicus has a fairly spammeable ranged atack that doesn’t work in melee range. It doesn’t hit as hard as melee moves do, but when you are the only possible target, the rate of this attack added to the boss itself moving quite fast towards you (so he will eventually unleash the big attacks anyways), soloing the fight at range is a nonsense, maybe even impossible with a full damage build.

There a lot of bosses that behave on different fashion depending on if the players are at close range or not, but cases like Lupicus, where ranged attacks are faster and/or deadlier, are a really small minority.
For the most part, bosses that try to fight at close range don’t spam ranged attacks (they might have some powerful ranged move, but usually on a moderate to high CD), are kited easily and tend to become a cakewalk for ranged players if a melee one keeps them entertained.

LordByron.8369:

Lupicus ranged is more fun than melee.
You have to react and answer more stuff….positioning and timing are also important.

Meleeing most stuff isn t more difficult or more fun than ranging…its only way faster…reason why nobody ever do it unless with bad pugs.

Imbued shaman is probably also more fun in ranged for you. After all, spamming randomly ‘a’ and ‘d’ which works in both fights is more fun that actually dodging attacks.

Azreell.1568:

I suggest removing you rethink your position.

In fairness in other games you are correct – Melee has at a higher risk then ranged in terms of dps.

In gw2 – Melee has more utility and survivability in melee range then a ranged player t ranged does.

Do bosses have leaps like enemy players in pvp? No.
Do players have disengage abilities tied to ranged weapon? Yes.

First off the dodge mechanic pretty much removes 90% of the risk being involved in melee. Second add stability, aegis, regens, retals, reflects and the list goes on and on and it ends up being melee is at less of a risk then ranged. I can melee in this game and pretty much fall asleep it’s so easy.

How adding defensive boons makes melee less risky than ranged? Have you ever played ranged character when your party is in melee? I don’t think so, otherwise you wouldn’t be stating this.

Secondly, if you think you can melee everything in this game, I’ll gladly take you to scale 49 or 50 cliffside. There we’ll see how melee against final boos without guardians giving you aegis is less risky than me spamming fireballs with glyph of elemental power casted while being in earth attunement. Ok?

Ranged combat in this game is a joke and quite frankly needs to be buffed substantially across the board in PvE. The difference in dps output is far to wide a gap and there is evidence it needs to be as great especially with my above comment.

The entire argument about melee being “harder” to play or “at more risk” has been proven in countless other posts to be false.

Proven by whom and where? Bad players watching speedrun movies where entire run is shown from warrior perspective who has at least 1 guardian giving him constantly aegis because the fight lasts 10-15 seconds?

If you play on european servers, I’ll gladly prove you wrong.

Vargamonth.2047:

Lupicus solo videos are probably one of the worst possible examples to discuss about melee vs range.
For the last 2 phases, Lupicus has a fairly spammeable ranged atack that doesn’t work in melee range. It doesn’t hit as hard as melee moves do, but when you are the only possible target, the rate of this attack added to the boss itself moving quite fast towards you (so he will eventually unleash the big attacks anyways), soloing the fight at range is a nonsense, maybe even impossible with a full damage build.

Except that you can spam ‘a’ and ‘d’ randomly like during final fight in volcanic fractal to avoid his autoattacks without dodging.

haviz.1340:

Vargamonth.2047:

Lupicus solo videos are probably one of the worst possible examples to discuss about melee vs range.
For the last 2 phases, Lupicus has a fairly spammeable ranged atack that doesn’t work in melee range. It doesn’t hit as hard as melee moves do, but when you are the only possible target, the rate of this attack added to the boss itself moving quite fast towards you (so he will eventually unleash the big attacks anyways), soloing the fight at range is a nonsense, maybe even impossible with a full damage build.

Except that you can spam ‘a’ and ‘d’ randomly like during final fight in volcanic fractal to avoid his autoattacks without dodging.

I’ve done it many times in volcanic, but didn’t know it also worked on Lupicus. Good to know (even if I’m not really interested in GW2 dungeons at this point :P).