Guild Wars 2

Basically I wanted already to do that in the Ranger CDI, but I waited with it, because I wanted to see first, what ANet’s changes on this class are with the next Balance Patch…
Now I feel its time to come out with my Concept Proposal, because I think this Class needs more change, than never before!

This Thread will be all about things, which I think should be done with the Ranger to turn this class into a well balanced, interesting as like also versatile Class which I think that the Ranger should be, that should have its place in the game in PvE as like also all other Game Modes.

In my Opinion, this class currently is totally overpowered, because of ANet having it overexaggerated it too much with the Buffs due to so many people constantly whining for nearly two years, how much underpowered this class is, when first and foremost the real issues of this class come from its game design and its mechanics, and not really from the power of its weapon skills, which Anet buffed absurdly over the top to the point, that they turned this class into ridiculous walking railguns.
It is absolutely no fun anymore to fight againstt them, because just 2 power build rangers are enough to spike any target with a dual rapid fire to nearly instant death in seconds, unless you can force them to change their weapon to a melee weapon due to you being able to contantly reflect somehow their projectile/ranged attacks!!
—-

So I want to use this thread to talk about, how I’d love to see how the whole Ranger Class should functionate way better, alot more balanced and fun to play in general with more build diversity also too under a complete redesign, which includes also its disastrous Pet System, which Anet still completely left untouched.
More to follow in the next Posting, first the schedule about what i want to talk in a List Form:

1) Weapon Skills:

• Longbow
• Shortbow
• Sword
• Greatsword
• Axes
• Dagger
• Torch
• Warhorn
• Harpoon
• Speargun

2) Healing Skills

3) Utility Skills

4) Elite Skills

5) Pet System & Skills

6) Traits

7) The Ranger under the Concept of possible Sub Classes

So you base your whole “argument” to the fact that 2 glass cannon players can kill someone (who obviously does not evade/uses defensive cd’s) in a matter of seconds.

And you expect people to take you seriously?!

Good luck with that!

This is the kind of unreasonable complaint that just makes you scratch your head. It is perfectly reasonable that you die when you walk, unaware, into the range of 2 zerker ranged builds. The fact that they were rangers is completely irrelevant.

1) Long Distance Shot (Previously Long Range Shot)
Distance 0-750 = 250 (0,55*Power*Weapon Strength/Armor) + 75% Chance to interrupt a foe with 1 Second Daze, if the Skill has a longer Animation than 1 Second.
Distance 751-1200 = 270 (0,75) + 50% Chance to interrupt a foe with 1 Second Daze, if the Skill has a longer Animation than 1 Second.
Distance 1200+ = 310 (0,9) + 33% Chance to Interrupt foes, if the Skill has a longer Animation than 1 Second.
Range without Trait: 1200
Combo Finisher: Projectile (20%)

Sense behind this Change:
The Ranger was in GW1 famours besides of the Mesmer for its heavy interruptive Gameplay. GW2 needs to get this back.

2) Rapid Fire
Damage (10x): 1,320 (3.50)
Vulnerability 10 Stacks/ Duration: 10s
Combo Finisher: Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1,200
Rapid Fire Hits can’t deal Critical Damage anymore.

Sense behind this Change:
Shooting super fast yes, but shooting super fast should come also together with the consequence of having also super reduced accuracy, because you priorize at that moment speed over precision!!
In its current form, Rapid Fire is just OP from all its synergies with the recent Trait Changes.
Basically I’d go so far to say, that the RF can’t deal criticial hits anymore isn’t enough, Anet should in my opinion also increase the Cooldown Time of RF from 10 seconds up to 15 seconds at least.

3) Hunter’s Shot
Damage: 141 (0.4) (should deal double damage to targets, that don’t move)
Lets hit Targets suffer for a short moment on a random high Bleeding, Torment or Confusion, if the target was moving when being hit)
Swiftness: (pet) 10 s
Combo Finisher: Projectile (20%)
Range: 1200

Sense behind this Change:
Together with its previous Stealth Effect, this Skill gets with the railgun RF only abused to deal instant deathly bursts without having a chance to see that attack coming, what is another reason, why RF feels so OP right now. So Stealth has to be remvoed here. The other changes are good enough compensations.
It offers in its currently 0 support in combat and is in general also too weak.
This Skill just needs more impact when using it.

4) Point Blank Shot
Damage: 250 (0.8)
Knockback: 700 (for range less than 300)
Knockback: 600 (for range between 300-600)
Knockback: 500 (for range greater than 600)
Combo Finisher: Projectile (20%)
Range: 900

Sense behind this Change:
This Skill should deal slightly lesser Damage, but therefore knockback foes a bit wider away, so that it becomes better to keep a foe away from you.

5) Barrage
Damage (15x): 1,500 (5)
Crippled: 1¾s
Weakness: 1 ¾s
Number of Targets: 10
Radius: 240
Range: 1,000
Recharge: 30 > 25s

Sense behind this Change:
Where RF is too powerful, Barrage is too weak always, so by nerfing RF, Barrage should get improved. It needs to become better,as it#s totally inferior to the Elementalists Conjure Frost Bow, whose Skill 4 even has a 20s Recharge. So I adjusted Barrage more to that Skill Balance and made it clearly superior as a Weapon Skill over using that Utility Skill.

Made long post but didn’t take. OP..other players will be here to explain why you are wrong and its a l2p issue.
Also take it you didn’t play lb before or ranger so you have no idea how weak most power specs were and the only real competitive build was condi.

@ Sigmoid/Yellow/Monkey :

Its easy to come up with superficial comments, like those above which are based from judging someones opinion just only on one single sentence that a person has written with that they don’t personally agree with, when they have no clues about, what the complete situation was from begin to its end.
I ignore this trash talk, because I’m not here to make any game balance discussions 8therefore are the profession specific sub forums there) with people about the pro and contra for why they personally think if I’m reasonable, or not…

I’m just here to post step by step my personal proposal about how I do see for myeself, how the gameplay design of the Ranger should look like (Because I would have done this anyways if I would have had more time for this, when the Ranger CDI was active and posting in a dead thread makes no sense to me, so I made my own one up), based on what the sense behind each single weapon in itself is. So my viewpoint for each weapon might differ from yours.
The Longbow for example is no weapon, that a Ranger should use to deal mainly only DPS.
The Longbow is a Long Distance Support Weapon that is used from safe distance mainly in the backrows far outside of melee combat range.
The Longbow is basically your number one choice a Ranger for example should use under the safety of the crowd from a WvW Zerg to attack from its backrow weakened and heavy damaged targets to support the frontline with attacks, that weaken the foes and control their movement/ or punish them actually for doing something – letting them rather do something, that favors you in combat to get the upperhand.
I also play Ranger in GW2.
Ranger in fact was even in GW1 from begin on my Main Class so I have more experience with playing a ranged class, than you or many others may think I have – which class someone plays here in GW2 is in fact even totally irrelevant, because every class has ranged weapons!
So please step back with your imflammatory biased toxic assumptions, only because there are some “concepts” made, with that you don’t agree with personally.

If you want to contribute in this thread constructively, than please refrain from personal attacks and childishly requestioning my seriousness, but rather instead make suggestions, how you personally think, that my concept might work better, or what changes I did might need perhaps some rethinking and most likely also why, because of having overseen maybe something important, or whatever…

Thank you very much !

Ill point it bluntly already… Longbow while a longrange weapon doesn’t realy need its damage nerfed but its actual speed. Longbow should be slower but infinitely more damaging then right now not to mention the arrow tracking from read the wind should be there by default not as a trait. Longbow a support weapon? I think you got it backward, as far as im concerned that’s a glass cannon assassin long range weapon wich should run on slow yet precise and deadly strikes.

Oh look another one of these threads

Ikr its like they all want longbow to be nerfed back I say for once keep the darn weapon as it is

I will say your thread was well thought out but I will disagree to what you have posted so far. I dont know what else you have in store as for your proposed changes which I would have to take into consideration but I for one, like the buffs as I played ranger before and continue to play now. As a whole, I think the entire ranger class structure is broken. Pets are basically useless and unless you play a condi ranger, a glass build is your best option. The only time I have ever killed another player with rapid fire alone was in wvw on an up 80. In tpvp I use my GS more than LB and can be just as deadly or in turn, just as horrible with either. Granted, Rangers are the flavor of the month for players with a low skill approach….push 2 and run, and I get aggravated when Im in a t match and see a level 3 or 4 ranger and his glass build and then watching him die over and over again because he doesnt understand the class. IMO I dont think LB should be nerfed as it has finally brought the class up somewhat. I think the class could use a few more buffs, mainly to pets. I still think we are weak in melee range though I usually dont have an issue with it unless its a thief or a bunker guardian. For some reason I die to them way to often but I know thats a L2P problem for me. RF is super easy to dodge or counter and it happens often in tpvp. I simply say people who complain about RF being OP boils down to a L2P issue plain and simple. But, I am interested to see what other changes you would make because your ideas so far are well thought out but I just disagree with them

Orpheal.8263:

@ Sigmoid/Yellow/Monkey :

Its easy to come up with superficial comments, like those above which are based from judging someones opinion just only on one single sentence that a person has written with that they don’t personally agree with, when they have no clues about, what the complete situation was from begin to its end.

This is what i read then stopped. You just said that because someone (who obviously was either afk, or didn’t bother using cd’s or evades) could die to 2 glass cannon classes in a matter of seconds.

First of all every glass cannon class can drop you in matter of seconds if you don’t react. So imagine what 2 of them can do.

Also you are not supposed to be able to win 2v1 fights, unless you greatly outplay the other players. (Thing that can be done very easily on some classes even if all 3 players are on the same skill level…)

So no, it’s not that I don’t agree with your points, it’s that you don’t have any real points. You just want rangers to be almost useless once more, because you can’t accept that they are now on-par with other classes.

/thread

^and yes, another one of them

I find it odd that in your OP you identify a problem, namely that the class has been over buffed to compensate for it’s questionable class mechanic, and state that the answer is not to buff weapon skills.

Then you’re solution seems to be changing the weapon skills….

If the problem, as you see it, is that the Pet mechanic is what holds Rangers back (rather than poor weapon skills) then any suggestion surely has to include fixing pets to be truely useful everywhere… no?

Threads like these would carry more weight if the Ranger class was dominating even a single aspect of the game.

PvE? Nope.
sPvP? Nope.
tPvP? Nope.
Solo Q? Nope.
WvW? Nope.
GvG? Nope.
Roaming? Nope.
Dueling? Nope.

Judging from all the nopes, it would appear either the Ranger class has a long way to go before they’re brought up to par or other classes completely negate the benefits of the Ranger class. In either case, a nerf would appear to be unwarranted.

Now that all said… your changes are completely nonsensical…

You say RF is overpowered so you remove the burst component from it. You then say another skill is overpowered because of RFs burst so you nerf it too despite the fact that you suggested removing the burst from RF in the first place?

I STRONGLY suggest you log at least an hour or 2 actually playing the class you allege is overpowered before pretending to have an opinion on what the class needs or why it’s overpowered.

Under all the apprehension in some of the posts, they do have a point. If the problem with the class lies with the class mechanic, then the problem doesn’t actually involve weapons in any way, even if some skills are buffed too far. If the problem is with the class mechanic, then pets need a serious rework first, otherwise, things are going to continue to get ‘over-buffed/over-nerfed’ until that core problem is fixed.

Before any suggestions are made changing weapon skills, you should first come up with a working solution to the pet problem because the entire Ranger profession revolves around that.

Of course, even Anet doesn’t even want to touch pets with a 39-1/2 foot pole, and I bet they’d prefer the seasick crocodile, so….good luck with that!

OP needs to l2p.

This thread has one good thing: The formatting!

I want the same thing OP is smoking !

I’m not sure if you understand why you got this reaction OP.

First off, let’s take a look at what you’ve got to offer here. After all the talk of redesigning the class, you jump straight to the longbow and list of a barrage (lol) of nerfs. What in the world made you think that was the place to start?

It begins to question your intentions for the redesign. You can camouflage it with pretty words about wanting to make these points during the CDI (aka before patch), but the substance of what you’ve put out is no more than any other QQ thread on the forums. Not a single point you made would have been relevant in the CDI.

If you had any sort of intentions to make this a real discussion about the core issues of the ranger, you blew the one opportunity you had to start in the right direction. And if the right direction had of been taken, the longbow could have been looked at later.

While we are at it, we should also nerf Backstab and Heartseeker so that those abilities also cannot crit, right?

I mean, that’d be fair, nerfing all burst skills so that they cannot crit.

nerf enginer bomb to so they cant push or knockdown XD

Ok, I’ll end this here.
I see now, and that is the only good thing of this thread so far from my view, that I should have started the whole thing from a completely different direction first.

I should have known that this thread will get flooded quickly by forum trolls which show no interest at all in new concepts and post only, to shred the incomplete concept that they simple can’t grasp/or just dislike out of biased different opinions (because its incomplete!) into thousand pieces, before anything based on the fundamentals gets described.

@ kittens:
Because Weapon Changes do belong to a complete Class Redesign.
You can’t just only change Traits and the Pet Mechanic only, expecting that it works with the Weapons being completely untouched
I started with the Longbow, because its currently the Rangers only weapon which has way too good synergy from traits, especially when used together with a Berserker Build and Quickness for such said insane railgun bursts, which aren’t so simply dodgeable, as like many ranger fanbois want to play down the problem now, because of loving their
I win in 2 seconds-kill skill number 1 now naturally.

Sure as a projectile attack it has its counters, but with a way too fast recharge time of, if traited freaking low 8 seconds, you can’t prevent being bursted down to death in seconds all the time when you need it the most. RF without critical hits would be due to its very low recharge tiem still powerful enough as a burst.
No class should be able to dish out like 12-14000+ damage within 2 seconds.
Thats also the reason why Anet nerfed the Thieves critical ability of Steal + Mug and changed it into a more supportive action, that heals the thief and can’t deal crit damage anymore, because it was able to deal within seconds way too much damage as a burst.
Also don’t forget, that you have as a ranger also too your Pet at your side, which deals also to the burst of RF additional damage over time…
Anet clearly overbuffed the Ranger’s Burst Potential here with all those trait synergies, out of fear, the community might complain about it later after the FP, that they wouldn’t buff them good enough after all the long Ranger CDI and year long complaints about, how weak the class is

Especially when you fight against multiple rangers you have a problem with their spammy RF bursts, which you ovent don’t see coming due to stealth.
The counterplay has way too long recharge times, dodges are very limited, especially when you play not a thief or any kind of perma vigor build class.
Also you can’t dodge something, what you can’t see coming or what doesn’t get telegraphed while the ranger is in stealth, which is why the stealth from hunters shot needs to go and get its effect changed.

When you overlook my changes for the longbow, someone who is truly interested in a constructive conversation , should quickly see, that I made not just only a “barrage” of nerfs, but I put also buffs into the skills as compensation from the made nerfs.

For the nerf of RF for example I clearly buffed Barrage.
I improved the AA by adding to it a percentaged randomous daze effect to give the Ranger its role back that it had from GW1 as one of the main interrupters, what I think is clearly something, that GW2’s overall combat system needs back to have a class, that is able to prevent somehow burst attacks with interrupts or the usage of long enough animated skills where there is a time window open for a successful interrupt.

However, in a general concensus I agree with you and from seeing those childish unconstructive reactions I’ll reconsider that I will present the concept the next time in a different way.

I see in, that this thread was too hastely posted by me , as I rather like to post bigger concepts in a kind of progressive style that gives me more time to add step by step additional parts.
However there are other ways to present concepts which I will use next time, so there is no need anymore for this thread, so i will inform a Mod to close it.

Orpheal.8263:

Ok, I’ll end this here.
I see now, and that is the only good thing of this thread so far from my view, that I should have started the whole thing from a completely different direction first.

I should have known that this thread will get flooded quickly by forum trolls which show no interest at all in new concepts and post only, to shred the incomplete concept that they simple can’t grasp/or just dislike out of biased different opinions (because its incomplete!) into thousand pieces, before anything based on the fundamentals gets described.

@ kittens:
Because Weapon Changes do belong to a complete Class Redesign.
You can’t just only change Traits and the Pet Mechanic only, expecting that it works with the Weapons being completely untouched
I started with the Longbow, because its currently the Rangers only weapon which has way too good synergy from traits, especially when used together with a Berserker Build and Quickness for such said insane railgun bursts, which aren’t so simply dodgeable, as like many ranger fanbois want to play down the problem now, because of loving their
I win in 2 seconds-kill skill number 1 now naturally.

Sure as a projectile attack it has its counters, but with a way too fast recharge time of, if traited freaking low 8 seconds, you can’t prevent being bursted down to death in seconds all the time when you need it the most. RF without critical hits would be due to its very low recharge tiem still powerful enough as a burst.
No class should be able to dish out like 12-14000+ damage within 2 seconds.
Thats also the reason why Anet nerfed the Thieves critical ability of Steal + Mug and changed it into a more supportive action, that heals the thief and can’t deal crit damage anymore, because it was able to deal within seconds way too much damage as a burst.
Also don’t forget, that you have as a ranger also too your Pet at your side, which deals also to the burst of RF additional damage over time…
Anet clearly overbuffed the Ranger’s Burst Potential here with all those trait synergies, out of fear, the community might complain about it later after the FP, that they wouldn’t buff them good enough after all the long Ranger CDI and year long complaints about, how weak the class is

Especially when you fight against multiple rangers you have a problem with their spammy RF bursts, which you ovent don’t see coming due to stealth.
The counterplay has way too long recharge times, dodges are very limited, especially when you play not a thief or any kind of perma vigor build class.
Also you can’t dodge something, what you can’t see coming or what doesn’t get telegraphed while the ranger is in stealth, which is why the stealth from hunters shot needs to go and get its effect changed.

When you overlook my changes for the longbow, someone who is truly interested in a constructive conversation , should quickly see, that I made not just only a “barrage” of nerfs, but I put also buffs into the skills as compensation from the made nerfs.

For the nerf of RF for example I clearly buffed Barrage.
I improved the AA by adding to it a percentaged randomous daze effect to give the Ranger its role back that it had from GW1 as one of the main interrupters, what I think is clearly something, that GW2’s overall combat system needs back to have a class, that is able to prevent somehow burst attacks with interrupts or the usage of long enough animated skills where there is a time window open for a successful interrupt.

However, in a general concensus I agree with you and from seeing those childish unconstructive reactions I’ll reconsider that I will present the concept the next time in a different way.

I see in, that this thread was too hastely posted by me , as I rather like to post bigger concepts in a kind of progressive style that gives me more time to add step by step additional parts.
However there are other ways to present concepts which I will use next time, so there is no need anymore for this thread, so i will inform a Mod to close it.

Don’t worry, your true intent came through loud and clear with your tired old rapid fire rant.

Better go do somthing maths on a Zerker RF without Crits just remember those that dont’ use Full zerker do 8-10k 12k on a good set up that includes pet damage, without the crits it really would not be a Burst anymore.

and Removing the LBs stealth only form of Defence vs Targets that have Stability is a bad idea.

Orpheal.8263:

No class should be able to dish out like 12-14000+ damage within 2 seconds.

Except Warriors… and Thieves… and Elementalists… and Mesmers….
You get the drift.

Ranger Burst is on par with other burst damage now (some classes still need help with their burst).

Especially when you fight against multiple rangers you have a problem with their spammy RF bursts, which you ovent don’t see coming due to stealth.

How about fighting multiple thieves who you also can’t see coming due to stealth? Or multiple ANYTHING since you are in a 1+nV1 situation?

Also you can’t dodge something, what you can’t see coming or what doesn’t get telegraphed while the ranger is in stealth, which is why the stealth from hunters shot needs to go and get its effect changed.

Sure. Let’s also take away the Thief’s ability to attack from stealth. That’d be perfectly fair.

For the nerf of RF for example I clearly buffed Barrage.

Right, because removing the ability to burst is completely offset with a small buff to a pointless, ground-targeted, weak AoE that never hits anything. That’s like saying cutting the Damage from Heartseeker in half is offset by adding an extra second of stealth to Cloak and Dagger.

However, in a general concensus I agree with you and from seeing those childish unconstructive reactions I’ll reconsider that I will present the concept the next time in a different way.

Rangers still need help with regard to their pets. Talk about that. Our weapons are now FINALLY on par with other classes.

In theory ranger longbow is fine and doesn’t require any tweak the ability around it however are not. People need to stop the ridiculus assumption rapid fire is the issue and start working toward nerfing traits instead of the weapon itself. How about merging eagle eyes and read the wind togueter while removing the hasted bow GM buff?

Orpheal.8263:

I should have known that this thread will get flooded quickly by forum trolls

It is unfortunate that you have this attitude. No one said anything that trolled you. If they did, you should report their post. The fact that you simply name call and fling this insult at everyone for simply disagreeing with you, shows your clear agenda.

Orpheal.8263:

Sure as a projectile attack it has its counters, but with a way too fast recharge time of, if traited freaking low 8 seconds, you can’t prevent being bursted down to death in seconds all the time when you need it the most.

Well actually you can. I do it repeatedly on a daily basis. I can agree that given the changes, a possible cool down adjustment might be reasonable. That was a bit hard to say on this particular thread, as you previously called me a troll simply for disagreeing with you that a redesign is required.

Orpheal.8263:

No class should be able to dish out like 12-14000+ damage within 2 seconds.

When you make statements of this matter, you harm your credibility further in my opinion. Because your not being completely honest. It is a fact that I can burst down another profession just as easily using your profession. It is a fact, that each profession has a spike damage build that when in full zerker gear against another profession in full zerker gear, can burst them down in literally a few seconds. I have plenty of videos in my library of myself and others doing so (I play all 8 professions myself)…………….But since your requesting a mod to close the thread, whats the point.

Orpheal.8263:

Anet clearly overbuffed the Ranger’s Burst Potential here with all those trait synergies, out of fear, the community might complain about it later after the FP, that they wouldn’t buff them good enough after all the long Ranger CDI and year long complaints about, how weak the class is

I do not think they did anything out of fear, they did it out of community feed back. The fact that you see things through this view does not aid in your goals here.

Either way, it by no means justifies an completely unnecessary “redesign”. That is simply a bad idea no matter how you cut it.

Orpheal.8263:

Especially when you fight against multiple rangers

No offense, but you make it clear you have difficulty with one opponent, so why are you justifying "redesigning " a profession over the fact that you lose a battle to multiple opponents?

Orpheal.8263:

When you overlook my changes for the longbow, someone who is truly interested in a constructive conversation

If you were interested in a constructive conversation, you would not name call, you would have participated in the CDI, you would not demand an entire redesign, and you would not have made your own thread for specific attention to your own personal thoughts, and would have participated on one of the ongoing threads already existing on the topic.

Anytime we have multiple threads on a subject, and someone makes a new thread, I always get the impression they feel their opinion is special, and thus deserves its own thread. It is probably a popular opinion.

Fact is everyone has its own belief for ranger. I for myself believe pets should have power scaling that longbow should deal huge but slow damaging attack and that a few traits should be merged together. What of this did I get from the last CDI? Absolutely nothing as pet still deal crap damage (although now axe is a possible build it just doesn’t offer possibility yet to be ran seriously), Longbow became the new shortbow and Rangers still depend on a GM trait for their condi cleanse :P

From a PvE point of view, what creep me the most in your suggestion is your change on AA. Stun/daze on auto attack… The words totally gamebraking and totally dumb are what i’ve got in mind. Why? first of all you want to select the skill you will interrupt and that’s what we were doing in GW1. With this you’ll perma daze/stun or have the boss invul against daze/stun when you really need to interrupt him. This is totally broken. In PvP, it would be even more broken because you’ll perma daze while your pet will wreck the heck out of your enemys.

Rapid fire is fine as it is. It deal far less damage then hundred blade and you only need one dodge to doge the full unload while you needed 2 before. Yes it’s easier to negate a rapide fire now then before. Removing critical strike on rapide fire… /facepalm

Hunter shot… Actually this skill have a good synergy with the marksmanship traitline. The stealth is here for that. I don’t think your change would make the ranger gameplay healthier here.

Point blank shot. You say that you want to change the ranger for the better and you keep the worst thing that the ranger have. Even more then that you want to increase the knockback effect. This skill is THE skill that make the ranger persona non gratta in dungeon. The best thing you could do with this skill would be to swap it with an utility skill. Everyday I see people flaming rangers because of this skill and I can’t complain they are right. It feel like the ranger can’t stand having this skill out of CD. Mob fly everyday to the end of the map with melee class running after and aoe empty of monster because of this skill. So NO!

Barrage : Barrage is fine as it is. Why because it’s a nice source of cripple than have a good synergy with a very interesting trait. Weakness on it would be totally pointless and more then 5 target for a skill would be probematic as well. It can already hit 12 time up to five target which mean 60 impact. Don’t ask for to much please.

Orpheal.8263:

In my Opinion, this class currently is totally overpowered, because of ANet having it overexaggerated it too much with the Buffs

stopped reading here.

sigh

it has become a press #2 and win

there is 0 risk siting that far back doing that much damage that quick with one button.

and the ability to to track stealth targets

i like the barrage changes but your proposed rapid fire returns it to what it was before, a lower dps skill than auto attk.

and your notion that hunter’s shot stealth makes u cant see rapid fire coming is completely flawed and total bs.

caveman.5840:

it has become a press #3 and win

there is 0 risk siting that far back doing that much damage that quick with one button.

and the ability to to track stealth targets

Yes… Hunter’s shot can be pretty devastating. Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention.

hmmm yeah thats balanced eh?

Grebcol.5984:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eep0pd97ox4

hmmm yeah thats balanced eh?

15K damage on a 60 second CD? Yeah, that’s nicely balanced.

Or were you trying to say that it wasn’t balanced but don’t know anything about rangers and thus came off looking silly by posting this?

i main self a ranger since beta so pls dont come with that 0815 answer.

also nice vid

Jim Hunter.6821:

caveman.5840:

it has become a press #3 and win

there is 0 risk siting that far back doing that much damage that quick with one button.

and the ability to to track stealth targets

Yes… Hunter’s shot can be pretty devastating. Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention.

hey ty for point out my typo #2

I kinda wanted to see the rest of the redesign. I don’t think RF is op but I do think Ranger needs to be, if not redesigned, then at least highly modified. (If you were serious OP you shouldn’t have stated the desire to nerf something)

SB needs help. Why is crip shot on the SB? Shouldn’t it be on the LB so you could cripple the person trying to run away from you at long range?

And add an AoE explosive shot to LB too.

And the pet, good grief, they need some serious help.

Part 1:
@ coglin:

I tried being nice first, but people rather prefer to ignore that and have no intention to partake in a constructive discusion, but rather are further disrespectful either towards me by posting offtopic junk or instead direct attacks against me with the only intention to discredit and to gag me, just because they simply don’t share with my opinion, whats the childish thign about all this.

Theres a difference between simply just agreeing with somebody on something in a mature way, by just saying that you disagree with somethign and especially WHY, so that the other side can UNDERSTAND your reasoning and maybe can come up then with improvements to a concept.

And this:

So you base your whole “argument” to the fact that 2 glass cannon players can kill someone (who obviously does not evade/uses defensive cd’s) in a matter of seconds.
And you expect people to take you seriously?!
Good luck with that!

Sole purpose of this post was just only to attack me, instead of staying on topic and saying something constructively about the concept

this

This is the kind of unreasonable complaint that just makes you scratch your head. It is perfectly reasonable that you die when you walk, unaware, into the range of 2 zerker ranged builds. The fact that they were rangers is completely irrelevant.

Again, just a indirect attack agaisnt me, based on my described situation, trying to discredit only my opinion, instead of staying on topic and saying something about pros and cons maybe of the made suggestions, what he/she might thing would be good, what not and might might maybe become better, of i ‘d make some changes on the concept..you know, thats constructive criticism… somethign what many people here seem to have completely forgotten, what that is or completely mistake it for destructive criticism and personal attacks… be they of direct or indirect kind of way is irrelevant just to gag that person’s opinion out of fear, Anet might maybe like some of those ideas and actually make some changes based of them.

this

Also take it you didn’t play lb before or ranger so you have no idea how weak most power specs were and the only real competitive build was condi.

Another cheap disrespectful try just to gag and discredit me with an indirect attack towards me and my play experience by making wild childish assumptions one would not play a ranged class…

then this

Oh look another one of these threads

this

OP needs to l2p.

and that

I want the same thing OP is smoking !

not to mention this, where it completel went out of control and got totally derailed beign absolutely offtopic and disrespectful by the end.

nerf enginer bomb to so they cant push or knockdown XD

Part 2:

And you really wonder yourself, why I’m not surprised that this thread got flooded by toxic forum trolls??. You have problems with my attitude? Then go open your eyes first in what a toxic and disrespectful community we are here in the forums first that isn’t competent enough to stay for 2 pennies on a freaking topic without becoming hostile towards the OP within the first 2 postings instantly, which is the reason, why I want this thread to get closed, or better even, completely put into the trash bin and erased, as it has no usage for me anymore, other than it showed me, that I should have begun my concept from a complete different direction and as a complete concept presentated, because otherwise people tend to just shred you into 1000 pieces. if they can’t understand your concept directly completely from begin on when they can see first only a small part of the whole puzzle.

They are like dogs, which get offered something and bite instantly after the whole arm and get agressive, if they don’t get what they want.

I don’t call people trolls if they just only disagree with me, thats nonsense.
I call people rightfully trolls, if they post just simply nothing constructive that is topic related, but rather post only so that they can attack me disrespectful or to try to discredit and gag my opinions because they personally just don’t like them. ANd thats what happened here, or do you seriously want to tell me, that all these things I quoted here are topic related respectful non hostile answers????

And as you can see, I’m not alone with the opinion that RF in its current form is too strong and too much of a I win-Button when beign played as berserker build together with the right too much synergizing traits.
I just decided here for my concept to take the widn out of the sails from this overpowered weapon build by changing the weapon skills, rather than the traits, because I find personally the traits are ok to have synergizing effects.
But its not ok with weapon skills with very short cooldowns as Burst Skills. No other class can burst so fast, like the ranger currently.
All other Classes require certain conditions first to be able to burst at all and not just pressign 1 button.
Thieves need to be in stealth and to be in the back of an enemy to burst with BS. that are 2 conditions that have to be met first ,before they can burst and their button press burst they had once, got significantly nerfed due to all the QQ of players, don’t forget how Steal + Mug was, at times where the Mug Damage was able to deal crit damage!!

What did anet do? They nerfed the crit ability and turned the skill more into a self supportive skill that helps the class tu survive better.
A redesign is not just only a happy buff everything-step, but its normal, that under a redesign wil lget also some things nerfed.

If people simply want to read nothing about nerfs, because of such things turning them into toxic trolls, then I can suggest such peole only to stay out of threads like this.
I have no problems with thigns like changes that no class should deal bursts of 12-14k damage. In fact it would be good for the overall game balance and it would make Berserker less as a meta and the other builds would become more meaningful and on par with Berserker, because Berserker is only attractive so much because of those insane burst damages you can dish out with that build, which can turn any epic fight into a boring 2 second slaughter.

@Johje

You can see the rest of it later, when I’m done with writing down the complete redesign and formatting it into a data file, that is easy to link in this forum as an attachment.

Well, you’ve at least seemed to understand why you’ve got this reaction now OP. But now you’re playing the victim because the reactions you got. Let’s take a closer look at this.

Orpheal.8263:

So you base your whole “argument” to the fact that 2 glass cannon players can kill someone (who obviously does not evade/uses defensive cd’s) in a matter of seconds.
And you expect people to take you seriously?!
Good luck with that!

Sole purpose of this post was just only to attack me, instead of staying on topic and saying something constructively about the concept

You were the one who brought up that 2 rangers can spike a target down in your opening post, therefore this is on topic. This was one of your reasons that it was OP. Now someone disagrees with you, explains why, and all of a sudden it’s out of bounds and a personal attack? You can’t use something as your evidence and have it be off limits, that’s just not how things work.

When two zerker classes burst down a target (especially a zerk), it’s going to go down fast. On my main (medi guardian) I’ve done dual SoW > JI > WW nukes with a friend and dropped 3 people trying to down a teammate. Dual RF only takes down 1 target.

Orpheal.8263:

Also take it you didn’t play lb before or ranger so you have no idea how weak most power specs were and the only real competitive build was condi.

Another cheap disrespectful try just to gag and discredit me with an indirect attack towards me and my play experience by making wild childish assumptions one would not play a ranged class…

No, this is a fair observation. The redesign suggests that you don’t have much experience playing with the LB Ranger. If you had any experience with it, you would know that restricting crits on rapid fire would return it to less DPS than the auto attack. You would know that adding bleeding, torment or confusion to the LB would be useless, as it’s a power based weapon. You would know that increasing the targets on barrage would be suicide while targeting a zerg due to retaliation.

In fact it’s within our rights to question your knowledge of the class when you’re suggesting a complete redesign. For all we know, you could be a main thief who is tired of his free bags actually fighting back. You need credibility when talking about a class, and you come up looking like a fool when you don’t have any.

@Orpheal,

These are Internet forums. Trolls are everywhere and they are always looking to feed. Even the post above mine is quite troll-ish its own way. If its bothering you that much, the best thing you can do is ignore it and post your redesign anyways. Put the personal attacks and negative feedback on the backburner until you finish.

Chrispy.5641:

@Orpheal,

These are Internet forums. Trolls are everywhere and they are always looking to feed. Even the post above mine is quite troll-ish its own way. If its bothering you that much, the best thing you can do is ignore it and post your redesign anyways. Put the personal attacks and negative feedback on the backburner until you finish.

Thats quite what I actually plan to do now and due to using the forum taking too long for this, I’ll use an other method next time.

@Shanks:
Please do show me the rule, where under a redesign must stay a Power Weapon a Power Weapon forever, or better said, where it is prohibited for a Power Weapon not to have also some condition hybrid effects, that would allow for a creative player maybe to turn the Power Weapon into a Condition Weapon???
I’d really like to know that, when you take such things somewhat as untouchable “rules”, that such facts can’t be changed under any circumstances >.>

Orpheal.8263:

Ok, I’ll end this here.
I see now, and that is the only good thing of this thread so far from my view, that I should have started the whole thing from a completely different direction first.

I should have known that this thread will get flooded quickly by forum trolls which show no interest at all in new concepts and post only, to shred the incomplete concept that they simple can’t grasp/or just dislike out of biased different opinions (because its incomplete!) into thousand pieces, before anything based on the fundamentals gets described.

@ kittens:
Because Weapon Changes do belong to a complete Class Redesign.
You can’t just only change Traits and the Pet Mechanic only, expecting that it works with the Weapons being completely untouched
I started with the Longbow, because its currently the Rangers only weapon which has way too good synergy from traits, especially when used together with a Berserker Build and Quickness for such said insane railgun bursts, which aren’t so simply dodgeable, as like many ranger fanbois want to play down the problem now, because of loving their
I win in 2 seconds-kill skill number 1 now naturally.

Sure as a projectile attack it has its counters, but with a way too fast recharge time of, if traited freaking low 8 seconds, you can’t prevent being bursted down to death in seconds all the time when you need it the most. RF without critical hits would be due to its very low recharge tiem still powerful enough as a burst.
No class should be able to dish out like 12-14000+ damage within 2 seconds.
Thats also the reason why Anet nerfed the Thieves critical ability of Steal + Mug and changed it into a more supportive action, that heals the thief and can’t deal crit damage anymore, because it was able to deal within seconds way too much damage as a burst.
Also don’t forget, that you have as a ranger also too your Pet at your side, which deals also to the burst of RF additional damage over time…
Anet clearly overbuffed the Ranger’s Burst Potential here with all those trait synergies, out of fear, the community might complain about it later after the FP, that they wouldn’t buff them good enough after all the long Ranger CDI and year long complaints about, how weak the class is

Especially when you fight against multiple rangers you have a problem with their spammy RF bursts, which you ovent don’t see coming due to stealth.
The counterplay has way too long recharge times, dodges are very limited, especially when you play not a thief or any kind of perma vigor build class.
Also you can’t dodge something, what you can’t see coming or what doesn’t get telegraphed while the ranger is in stealth, which is why the stealth from hunters shot needs to go and get its effect changed.

When you overlook my changes for the longbow, someone who is truly interested in a constructive conversation , should quickly see, that I made not just only a “barrage” of nerfs, but I put also buffs into the skills as compensation from the made nerfs.

For the nerf of RF for example I clearly buffed Barrage.
I improved the AA by adding to it a percentaged randomous daze effect to give the Ranger its role back that it had from GW1 as one of the main interrupters, what I think is clearly something, that GW2’s overall combat system needs back to have a class, that is able to prevent somehow burst attacks with interrupts or the usage of long enough animated skills where there is a time window open for a successful interrupt.

However, in a general concensus I agree with you and from seeing those childish unconstructive reactions I’ll reconsider that I will present the concept the next time in a different way.

I see in, that this thread was too hastely posted by me , as I rather like to post bigger concepts in a kind of progressive style that gives me more time to add step by step additional parts.
However there are other ways to present concepts which I will use next time, so there is no need anymore for this thread, so i will inform a Mod to close it.

This my friends, is the definition of TL;DR

@Orpheal.

Would you please stream some videos on twitch of you in spvp, tpvp and wvw on your ranger and show us exactly how they are overpowered?

Orpheal.8263:

@Shanks:
Please do show me the rule, where under a redesign must stay a Power Weapon a Power Weapon forever, or better said, where it is prohibited for a Power Weapon not to have also some condition hybrid effects, that would allow for a creative player maybe to turn the Power Weapon into a Condition Weapon???
I’d really like to know that, when you take such things somewhat as untouchable “rules”, that such facts can’t be changed under any circumstances >.>

I just wanted to say this one thing. Rangers already have two hybrid weapons. Sword and shortbow. Then we have torch and dagger which are also condition/hybrid focused offhands. Even axe mainhand gets a fair amount of damage from bleeds.

In your redesign keep in mind some people actually like power builds, and we only have two straight up power weapons as of now: Greatsword and longbow. If you change longbow into a condition weapon rangers won’t be able to make a power build ever again.

Orpheal.8263:

@Shanks:
Please do show me the rule, where under a redesign must stay a Power Weapon a Power Weapon forever, or better said, where it is prohibited for a Power Weapon not to have also some condition hybrid effects, that would allow for a creative player maybe to turn the Power Weapon into a Condition Weapon???
I’d really like to know that, when you take such things somewhat as untouchable “rules”, that such facts can’t be changed under any circumstances >.>

Talk about grasping for straws. Couldn’t reply to the meat of the post so you pick that out and write a patronizing follow up paragraph.

Really though. Why would you turn longbow into a hybrid weapon when there’s the shortbow? Are you intentionally trying to destroy the longbow or just don’t understand ranger builds?

I’m sorry but the first rule of MMORPGs is never, I mean never have RNG on interrupts. If you’re playing WoW and your raid wipes cos RNG screwed over your interrupt, how would that feel?

If I’m interrupting something, I’m relying on that interrupt to work to stay alive.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’m sorry but the first rule of MMORPGs is never, I mean never have RNG on interrupts. If you’re playing WoW and your raid wipes cos RNG screwed over your interrupt, how would that feel?

If I’m interrupting something, I’m relying on that interrupt to work to stay alive.

It’s also worth noting that the Ranger above all other classes has the stigma of being a very passive class to play. The last thing it needs is more passive RNG elements to fall back on.

There is nothing OP about the LB currently. It’s still weak compared to other class’s options. If anything, the LB needs at minimum a 50% damage buff.

Played my Ranger for the 1st time last night in quite some time, and while they’re stronger, they are still no where even close to being on par with other classes. If anyone is having trouble beating them, it’s a L2P issue.

^thats a problem with the whole game really. Take Warrior’s bleed 10% damage trait.

10% is a pretty significant damage boost, so on its own, you would think that’s pretty cool as it encourages management of bleed uptime. But no, there’s a trait before that which automatically applies bleeds for you, meaning that 10% basically becomes a free 10% DPS.

It’s stuff like that which really lowers the skill ceiling of the game.