Guild Wars 2

This is one for all the people that whine that Condition Damage ticking after application is unfair. Also, the anti-spam folks.

As it stands, Retaliation was originally meant to be an anti-spam/anti-burst boon. It used to do that too well though, and was toned down. In most cases it is currently ignored.

Now, Retaliation only procs on the application of a condition (assuming the attack also does some amount of damage). The proposed change: Retaliation now also procs on “damage tick” for conditions.

What does this mean? It means every second you have some combination of Bleed, Poison, Burning, and Torment, you cause an extra tick of Retaliation damage on the person who applied it. This does not scale; you do not get two procs of Retaliation on the same person just because they have Bleeding and Burning on you. Although that can be reconsidered.

This change adds more of a duality with Protection. While Protection prolongs the fight against power damage, Retaliation causes a race to the bottom against condition damage. It also creates a boon that works as a soft counter to condition damage without getting into condition duration wars. Considering Retaliation’s lower damage, it helps the boon keep up with its counterpart condition, Confusion.

And as an aside, I always felt like Retaliation should scale with Vitality in some way. Healing Power directly enhances certain skills, Toughness scales with Protection in the amount of damage reduced, but Retaliation scales with Power when it should be more of a defensive boon. Maybe Vitality scaling should be used for its damage instead of Power, maybe along with Power, or maybe it should scale with some new added functionality someone else can come up with in the future (in the same way life leeching scales with both Power and Healing Power currently, but for different things).

This is a really bad idea.

Condition applying abilities generally have low upfront damage, followed by a damage-over-time component. These abilities would get utterly kittened over by Retalition.
And this by no means limits itself to condition builds. Direct-damage builds also have some conditions in the mix. As a result, retaliation would inflict more damage then the actual condition deals to the person with retaliation.

I’d hit you for a 1400crit with my Rifle and trigger a 3sec Bleed, in a power build thats less then 250dmg. Such traits, often minor, would instantly become a great liability as i take much more damage because Retaliation now trigger 4x instead of 1×.

Your idea is not anti-spam, you want to empower a brainless boon that passively inflicts damage even further. Not to mention buffing the already absurd bunkers with more damage, which is the thing they were suppose to sacrifice for their high survivability.

minimum 200 dps per second against condition builds. along with the damage they are already taking from simply attacking. One attack per second would make that 400dps per second just from retaliation. That’s insane considering that’s how much health healing signet heals per second. That is simply too much damage.

I don’t think it’s a good idea. If you’re on a DPS Direct Damage build and you see someone with retaliation, you have a choice not to attack him. Even if you do, you get 1 return for 1 attack. When a condi player drops 1 condi on purpose/accidentally, he’ll have to take more than a lot of damage returns for every tick.

So, to the above three posters, why not just lower Retaliation damage further? Or you know, since this would be a major gamewide change, also look into all of those extra condition damage applications on power damage skills that also cause problems in PvE?

Proven.2854:

So, to the above three posters, why not just lower Retaliation damage further? Or you know, since this would be a major gamewide change, also look into all of those extra condition damage applications on power damage skills that also cause problems in PvE?

If we lower retaliaton damage more then it will become even more useless in PvE.

Tim.6450:

Proven.2854:

So, to the above three posters, why not just lower Retaliation damage further? Or you know, since this would be a major gamewide change, also look into all of those extra condition damage applications on power damage skills that also cause problems in PvE?

If we lower retaliaton damage more then it will become even more useless in PvE.

The problem is not retaliation, it is the basic mob design. 1 attack pr second, every third attack or so a telegraphed spike attack.

Yes, this promote “active” combat in that a player that can manage his evades well can walk away unharmed. But it also makes 90% or the armor sets pointless, and mess up the functioning of mechanics like retaliation.

This because in a PVP situation the rule is not single massive attacks, unless you come out of stealth or similarly surprise your opponent, but many small and fast attacks.

This sounds like a really bad idea, unless all condition users (that is, everyone) get a way to intentionally cancel their current conditions.

I understand conditions are strong in sPvP. But have you considered the impact this change would have on PvE and WvW, where conditions are already pretty pretty weak?

Apply this to only 1 most damaging condition (so we not obliterating someone with multiple conditions) with damage >200 per tick (so it’s not some random single bleed) and it will be pretty good idea.

That’d be rather weird. Depending on power / malice levels, applying Confusion would give an enemy the ability to kill me, by spamming skills.

It’s also highly illogical because Retaliation is supposed to be an inverse Confusion. Confusion doesn’t trigger whenever a condition deals damage, so why should Retaliation.

No.

1. “Retaliation was originally meant to be an anti-spam/anti-burst boon”
   Where did you get this idea from? Stop inventing intentions.
2. Many power attacks or attack chains apply a bit of bleeding or poison, which tick for low amounts of damage especially on power based builds. Since you suggest to only apply one retaliation tick per target, no matter how many conditions/stacks are applied, you would be punishing power based builds more then condition based builds.
3. Few classes get retaliation, this would make them too strong in comparison.

…..

Because engineer’s don’t get hit hard enough by retal as is?

15x retal damage potential every nade toss not enough?

You do realize that the only conditions that tick higher than retal are Burn and Fear when traited with terror, right?

So an engi who puts 3 stacks of bleed on a guardian with retal would take close to 3x more damage than the guardian.

Are people thinking that you get a retal for each bleed tick? That’s not what I wrote.

I’ll explain again: You get one retal tick, total, maximum, no more than that, for every opponent that has any number damage per second condition. If you place one bleed, you get one retal tick per second. If you place 5 bleeds, you still only get one retal tick per second. If place 10 bleeds, 5 seconds of poison, and 8 seconds of burning, you still only get one retal tick per second maximum.

Retal damage would probably need to be lowered. In the case of PvE you’ll do some damage to mobs that poison or bleed you as long as they don’t have a condition damage stat as ridiculous as most mobs have in power. It’ll still be overall not very useful unless you add extra functionality to it.

Having reatiation tick on condition damage is a bad idea. An opponent can stop attacking you if the retal is hurting him, he cannot, however stop conditions from ticking on you.