Guild Wars 2

Now that Engineers can instantly apply 6 seconds of Revealed and Rangers are becoming more prevalent in PvP, I’d like to talk about the mechanic of Revealed.

No, no, no. Not that talk.

Simply put, I think it would be great if we could get an additional audio or visual cue when Revealed is applied to us. Preferably, this would be in the form of a colored border around the screen, or a voice that says “HEY! I SEE YOU!” It would hopefully be a simple change, and—in my opinion—a great QoL improvement for anyone who uses stealth.

I’m aware that there is already a Revealed icon, but it is small and appears without any special effect, dialogue, or character animation. And I’m aware that the Ranger shout currently has a distinct audio cue, which I unfortunately can’t hear from a 1000+ meters away while they are attacking me on longbow. I would be appreciative if we could get a notification that is a little more…notifying.

I would be okay with this under the condition that everyone gets an audio/visual cue before we take damage from a character in stealth. As of now the icon we get 1s ahead of time allowing us to dodge is too small

What’s that you say? There is no icon to notify use just before we take damage we cannot see coming, from a stealthed thief? Then by Ogden’s hammer, I say no, I am against your suggestion for that reason.

At least for ranger there is an audio cue. The ranger will shout “Sick ’Em!” and the pet will charge you. As for visual, you can see the revealed icon appear where you should be watching for all conditions anyway.

I feel it’s fine the way it is. Sure you might not notice it get applied, but if you don’t you weren’t paying as much attention as you should. As it is now it’s a sneaky way to get the upper hand on a thief who decided to disengage. I’ve seen several bad thieves use Shadow Refuge right after it was applied because they simply weren’t paying attention and got destroyed because of it. If revealed was too obvious when applied I’d miss out on those hilarious moments.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I would be okay with this under the condition that everyone gets an audio/visual cue before we take damage from a character in stealth. As of now the icon we get 1s ahead of time allowing us to dodge is too small

What’s that you say? There is no icon to notify use just before we take damage we cannot see coming, from a stealthed thief? Then by Ogden’s hammer, I say no, I am against your suggestion for that reason.

Notification of an impending attack is in no way equivalent to notification that you are currently debuffed. Every condition/debuff in-game—as far as I can tell—has a distinct cue associated with it, except Vulnerability and Revealed. There are lots of instant or nearly-instant skills. Many of them cause damage.

Ehecatl.9172:

At least for ranger there is an audio cue. The ranger will shout “Sick ’Em!” and the pet will charge you. As for visual, you can see the revealed icon appear where you should be watching for all conditions anyway.

Rusc.4978:

I’m aware that there is already a Revealed icon, but it is small and appears without any special effect, dialogue, or character animation. And I’m aware that the Ranger shout currently has a distinct audio cue, which I unfortunately can’t hear from a 1000+ meters away while they are attacking me on longbow. I would be appreciative if we could get a notification that is a little more…notifying.

You have a right to your opinion that Revealed is fine; I simply wanted to highlight the part of my original post where I addressed the currently existing audio/visual cues.

Rusc.4978:

Notification of an impending attack is in no way equivalent to notification that you are currently debuffed.

Yes. Yes it is. you simply disagree because it doesn’t cater to making your work easier.

Yah im going to disagree on this aswell. Part of the skill is not wasting your abilities on stuff like this.
If i use a strong attack into a target that clearly has Aegis, its my fault and i should get better and not ask for the game to tell me “you are about to use a skill on someone who will block it, are you sure?”.

I don’t really have an issue with this. I feel like several things in the game require more subtle visual representation to limit how much you have to look at the opponents’ health bar. Another big one is Stability. If there was a small circle at their feet with the icon for the boon inside of it, it would be helpful when facing classes like Guards and Eles that can have a whole line of boons. The devs have stated before that they don’t want us staring at the bar too much so making things like reveal and stab more immediately apparent is fine with me.

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

cafard.8953:

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

But these are effects that affect everyone. A que that you have been Revealed is meaningless to most people, and could more so be seen as an irritation. “Stop telling me ive been revealed, i cant even stealth, im a necro!”

And then no doubt people would say “then just give this que to classes who can use stealth”
First off, Engineers can use stealth. Doesnt mean it often does, and its very possible that Stealth is not included. Making the visual or audio warning a bother anyway.
And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

Because ANet said they don’t want us playing by the interface, and the Revealed debuff is exactly that. At least, when it was introduced, it was something self inflicted only and you could track it’s status yourself. But now it’s externally inflected through instant cast/no animation skills.

Ehecatl.9172:

At least for ranger there is an audio cue. The ranger will shout “Sick ’Em!” and the pet will charge you. As for visual, you can see the revealed icon appear where you should be watching for all conditions anyway.

I feel it’s fine the way it is. Sure you might not notice it get applied, but if you don’t you weren’t paying as much attention as you should. As it is now it’s a sneaky way to get the upper hand on a thief who decided to disengage. I’ve seen several bad thieves use Shadow Refuge right after it was applied because they simply weren’t paying attention and got destroyed because of it. If revealed was too obvious when applied I’d miss out on those hilarious moments.

They could drop SR right after getting revealed just because SR has a casting time. If the thief is low on HP, he often decides to stay in SR for the heals it gives. But ofc calling people bad is easier than knowing how other class works.

as a ranger and a thief, let me explain it this way:

When I am on my ranger, thieves wasting blinding powder and shadow refuge when I hit them with sic ’em is hilarious.

When I am on thief, rangers wasting all of their evades / immunities when I stealth is hilarious. I’m just going to wait it out, and then they are going to be defenseless.

That said, few rangers actually run sic ’em. Fewer rangers still will run it next week when the novelty wears off. And even fewer rangers pose a challenge for a thief.

Protip: Instead of opening with traited steal+daze, save it to interrupt the rapid fire.

I think I should get bigger notice when I’m applied with confusion or torment, the small icons are just not visible enough to make me stop hitting or moving

stof.9341:

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

Because ANet said they don’t want us playing by the interface, and the Revealed debuff is exactly that. At least, when it was introduced, it was something self inflicted only and you could track it’s status yourself. But now it’s externally inflected through instant cast/no animation skills.

Firstly, you shouldnt put to much stock in what arenanet says. They often contradict themselves or spread misinformation.

And lets not forget we ARE playing bars. Cooldown timers get messed up by things like Chill or traited interupts, destroying your feeling of when a skill might be ready. You have to look at the skillbars.

A lot of boons and conditions do not get a proper visual feedback, they are either completely lacking or very hard to see.

They say they dont want us playing the toolbars, and then add all kind of things that force us to closely look at our toolbars, at our boons and conditions, at our opponents boons and conditions.
And for the most part, such vital information is forcing you to look at bars. Revealed does not deserve to be made a specific exception for the chief benefit of two professions. Especially considering Thieves, from their class mechanic Initiative, have far less concern over cooldown fluctuation from interupts and Chill. Instead, they have to deal with this.

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

You aren’t allowed to ask for improvements in this game. If you ask for improvements, it means you are saying the game is bad and there’s too much negativity in the forums already! So extra negativity will not be tolerated.

And the OP case is even worse here since he’s asking for a buff for thieves and we all know the thieves case.

Vikkela.7261:

I think I should get bigger notice when I’m applied with confusion or torment, the small icons are just not visible enough to make me stop hitting or moving

From the wiki pages on Torment and Confusion:

“Characters suffering from torment have black smoke on their legs (if applicable) and large red scratch marks around their lower body.”

“Characters suffering from confusion can be identified by twirling, purple tinted spiral over their heads. Additionally, the same effect will appear alongside damage dealt by confusion when using a skill. "

I would consider a special effect such as either of those to be an adequate visual cue for the purposes of my request. Confusion also gets its own special line of character dialogue.

Terrahero.9358:

cafard.8953:

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

But these are effects that affect everyone. A que that you have been Revealed is meaningless to most people, and could more so be seen as an irritation. “Stop telling me ive been revealed, i cant even stealth, im a necro!”

And then no doubt people would say “then just give this que to classes who can use stealth”
First off, Engineers can use stealth. Doesnt mean it often does, and its very possible that Stealth is not included. Making the visual or audio warning a bother anyway.

I feel like that would be easily fixable with an opt-out box in the game options.

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

If ArenaNet decided to add a debuff that put fear-causing skills on an additional cooldown, or disabled meditations, or decreased adrenaline gain rate, I would fully support the addition of a warning that the debuff in question was applied.

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

No. No he didn’t. He asked for a very very specific change that only benefits him as a thief.

If he cared about actual quality of life, he would have asked this for all buffs/debufs that would effect various profession. It is one thing to bring up a discussion to make a QoL general adjustment to the UI. It is another to ignore everything entirely and single in one a single very specific change that would benefit him on his main specifically. The fact that a posters ask for something so specific, while dismissing everything else, is a clear indicator that it is a very greedy and selfish request. Thus my reply.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

No. No he didn’t. He asked for a very very specific change that only benefits him as a thief.

Revealed can affect the stealth-applying skills of Rangers, Mesmers, and Engineers, as well. It can also affect anyone who tries to combo stealth to benefit a group or a player that cannot access stealth on their own.

dancingmonkey.4902:

If he cared about actual quality of life, he would have asked this for all buffs/debufs that would effect various profession.

Such as?

Such as an animation that shows a stealthed player about to attack you, so you have the option to counter it with a dodge or block. We already discussed this. Did you not read the thread?

It is clear by all of your post on thief that you are biased toward them and created this thread for that purpose.

You have 135 post and not once do you post about anything outside of benefiting thieves, bugs, or issues, that related very specifically to you. You never once posted about a thought, idea, or suggestion in any context that suggested it was with the intent to benefit another profession.

So tell me, if you are concerned about the other profession, how long have you had your ranger, mesmer, or engineer at 80? How many hours do you have on each?

I could get behind reveal having a visual cue. Maybe a white aura that encompasses them as a highlight that this target is revealed.

No, just no.

The last thing thieves need in PvP or WvW is UI changes that cater to them.

I mean I am with the idea of giving a visual cue of illuminating a stealthed player for the duration of the cast time of any skill they use from stealth. While we are at it, can we change backstabs cast time from 1/4 to 1/2 for this. Also we need to add a cast time to tactical strike, sneak attack, and steal is too strong traited, it definitely needs a cast visual to allow counter play. All of which illuminate you with a visual cue to your target, while you are in stealth, during the cast time, of each skills can actually be blocked or dodged.

We do that, and then I would be all for your idea.

It is sure says a lot when if your against allowing cue’s so others do not waste dodges, blocks, and what not, trying to guess when they will get hit. Yet you want to be catered to so that you wouldn’t accidentally waste your resources by trying to stealth……………………..

coglin.1867:

No, just no.

The last thing thieves need in PvP or WvW is UI changes that cater to them.

I mean I am with the idea of giving a visual cue of illuminating a stealthed player for the duration of the cast time of any skill they use from stealth. While we are at it, can we change backstabs cast time from 1/4 to 1/2 for this. Also we need to add a cast time to tactical strike, sneak attack, and steal is too strong traited, it definitely needs a cast visual to allow counter play. All of which illuminate you with a visual cue to your target, while you are in stealth, during the cast time, of each skills can actually be blocked or dodged.

We do that, and then I would be all for your idea.

It is sure says a lot when if your against allowing cue’s so others do not waste dodges, blocks, and what not, trying to guess when they will get hit. Yet you want to be catered to so that you wouldn’t accidentally waste your resources by trying to stealth……………………..

I feel as though your irrational hatred for the class has really diminished your ability to make sound, logical suggestions. Perhaps you should take a break from making suggestions concerning mechanics you don’t understand fully until you’ve worked through that.

If it’s ok for the game to have abilities that specifically target stealth, then it’s ok to have cues for when stealth has been specifically targeted.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Such as an animation that shows a stealthed player about to attack you, so you have the option to counter it with a dodge or block. We already discussed this. Did you not read the thread?

Rusc.4978:

dancingmonkey.4902:

If he cared about actual quality of life, he would have asked this for all buffs/debufs that would effect various profession.

Such as?

I have indeed read the thread, and I’m afraid you haven’t answered my question. You specifically referred to buffs/debuffs that affect other professions, and that was what I quoted when I asked for examples.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You have 135 post and not once do you post about anything outside of benefiting thieves, bugs, or issues, that related very specifically to you. You never once posted about a thought, idea, or suggestion in any context that suggested it was with the intent to benefit another profession.

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

They could drop SR right after getting revealed just because SR has a casting time. If the thief is low on HP, he often decides to stay in SR for the heals it gives. But ofc calling people bad is easier than knowing how other class works.

No, I was watching them. I used revealed prior to them beginning their cast.

Then he ran into his Shadow Refuge and stood there, still perfectly visible, before getting torn a part.

Of course insulting me is easier than admitting there are bad thieves in the game, apparently.

evilapprentice.6379:

I feel as though your irrational hatred for the class has really diminished your ability to make sound, logical suggestions. Perhaps you should take a break from making suggestions concerning mechanics you don’t understand fully until you’ve worked through that.

If it’s ok for the game to have abilities that specifically target stealth, then it’s ok to have cues for when stealth has been specifically targeted.

You are projecting your misconceptions into it.

You are being very one sided yourself. You justify everything in pure favor of thieves. By your own justification, if you get a cue that stealth is targeted, why are you against a cue for players targeted for damage from the cover of stealth?

Rusc.4978:

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

Umm, I think he was making fun of your, er, umm……..less then stellar reputation, from your sometimes unrealistic past suggestions in favor of thieves. Particular after you mention several other profession.

I see you dodged the question about your time and experience in each of the professions. How long have you played the professions you mentioned?

The only visual cue that we really need to have is the ability to scale the icons and separate the buff from the debuff by placing them in different rows.

coglin.1867:

Rusc.4978:

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

Umm, I think he was making fun of your, er, umm……..less then stellar reputation, from your sometimes unrealistic past suggestions in favor of thieves. Particular after you mention several other profession.

I mentioned several other professions because they are also effected by Revealed, even if it is to a less dramatic degree. I also mentioned players using combos to give stealth to a group.

Again, I refer back to the fact that I haven’t used this forums account in over a year, until yesterday. Many of my past suggestions could be outdated; I haven’t looked, and honestly don’t care.

coglin.1867:

I see you dodged the question about your time and experience in each of the professions. How long have you played the professions you mentioned?

I ignored it because I don’t understand how it’s relevant. I’m asking for a UI change to bring Revealed up to the same perceptibility as other conditions.

If everyone is really so interested in my characters, across both accounts I have: a level 80 Thief, a level 80 Ranger, a level 80 Ele, a second Ele at level 66, a level 53 Engineer, two level 30 Mesmers, a third Mesmer at level 7, a second Ranger at level 4, a level 3 Guardian, a level 2 Guardian, and a level 1 Warrior. I’m afraid I didn’t log into each individual character to get my total hours for each class, and I can only guess at the hours I’ve flushed with deleted characters.

I’m on step 4 of the 12-step altaholic program (praise Dwayna), but I’m thinking about making a second Engineer.

Rusc.4978:

I ignored it because I don’t understand how it’s relevant. I’m asking for a UI change to bring Revealed up to the same perceptibility as other conditions.

It is relevant because you are trying to use the guise that you care about the other professions, or claim to know what they need, when you have no knowledge or experience of them. You appear to have not mentioned or discussed any other profession in your post history. As well, the change would clearly benefit the thief the most by far.

I agree with the OP although to be honest I watch buff trays like a hawk anyways.

Meh, I say give it. Do I enjoy it now when thieves waste their stealth skills when I use analyze on them with my utility goggles, very much so. But it is sorta unfair that they don’t really have any indication that they have revealed on them other than looking down at their skill bar…and let’s face it, if they do that, they can get blown up very easily.

As much as I love trouncing some thief due to revealed debuff, I see no reason why a player shouldnt be given more indication of it’s effect on his toon.

While the sort of thing that happened to this thief is funny, it’s also kind of ridiculous and sad. And the thing is, the thief didnt make any mistakes in his gameplay with the exception of just not seeing the debuff.

The previous post shows how oblivious people are to what reveal means for a thief.

He tried to CnD and didn’t gain stealth. At this point he’d have to be totally blind not realise he had reveal debuff on him.

Both his offensive and defensive capabilities are reduced with reveal. His mistake was to stay in that camp, not like he’d kill you with aa/torment before he’d melt to your burst and condis. Stealth trap = 30s of no reliable condi cleanse. That’s why thieves QQ’d so hard when we heard about engies getting revealed. Those 6s are enough to melt to condis.

So why a thief would use SR in this situation?

1. Braindead

or

2. He simply has nothing else to go for him. To an extend, you can ignore the dmg he can deal, he can’t cleanse condis (to use shadowstep for this, he’d have to go back to you and prob just get killed even faster). At this point, dropping SR is all he can do and hope the heals will be enough till condis expire. Thieves that drop SR with reveal on them are often just desperate.

For thieves, reveal is not just loss of stealth, it’s a direct counter to large part of defensive and offensive capabilities.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Rusc.4978:

I ignored it because I don’t understand how it’s relevant. I’m asking for a UI change to bring Revealed up to the same perceptibility as other conditions.

It is relevant because you are trying to use the guise that you care about the other professions, or claim to know what they need, when you have no knowledge or experience of them. You appear to have not mentioned or discussed any other profession in your post history. As well, the change would clearly benefit the thief the most by far.

A Revealed UI change like the one I’m suggesting would, in my opinion, benefit anyone who relies on stealth as a part of their skill set, or anyone who wishes to combo stealth. Stealth use isn’t solely limited to Thieves—which is a fact—and that is the only “claim” I have made on the subject.

I would appreciate it if we could at least pretend to stay on the topic of changing Revealed UI instead of flaming. Your dislike of this idea has been noted.

You may continue attacking my post history and how my time is spent in game, of course—how dare I mention the other professions with stealth skills!—but I’m not going to continue responding.

Rusc.4978:

Terrahero.9358:

cafard.8953:

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

But these are effects that affect everyone. A que that you have been Revealed is meaningless to most people, and could more so be seen as an irritation. “Stop telling me ive been revealed, i cant even stealth, im a necro!”

And then no doubt people would say “then just give this que to classes who can use stealth”
First off, Engineers can use stealth. Doesnt mean it often does, and its very possible that Stealth is not included. Making the visual or audio warning a bother anyway.

I feel like that would be easily fixable with an opt-out box in the game options.

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

If ArenaNet decided to add a debuff that put fear-causing skills on an additional cooldown, or disabled meditations, or decreased adrenaline gain rate, I would fully support the addition of a warning that the debuff in question was applied.

Something like Aegis already does. And thats visible. But what about invisible things?

Something like Shared Anguish, to name just one there are several similar traits. Where your next CC will fail as it gets automatically countered. Would be great if i knew that ahead of time so i dont waste a long cooldown, like my Elite, and trigger it first with a weaker CC.

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

It isnt just a QoL improvement. A ding and a flashing taskbar when your queu for WvW pops, while you were busy watching youtube videos is a QoL improvement.

This is asking for the game to take over a part of your responsibility as a player to not misuse your abilities.

Terrahero.9358:

Rusc.4978:

Terrahero.9358:

cafard.8953:

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

But these are effects that affect everyone. A que that you have been Revealed is meaningless to most people, and could more so be seen as an irritation. “Stop telling me ive been revealed, i cant even stealth, im a necro!”

And then no doubt people would say “then just give this que to classes who can use stealth”
First off, Engineers can use stealth. Doesnt mean it often does, and its very possible that Stealth is not included. Making the visual or audio warning a bother anyway.

I feel like that would be easily fixable with an opt-out box in the game options.

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

If ArenaNet decided to add a debuff that put fear-causing skills on an additional cooldown, or disabled meditations, or decreased adrenaline gain rate, I would fully support the addition of a warning that the debuff in question was applied.

Something like Aegis already does. And thats visible. But what about invisible things?

Something like Shared Anguish, to name just one there are several similar traits. Where your next CC will fail as it gets automatically countered. Would be great if i knew that ahead of time so i dont waste a long cooldown, like my Elite, and trigger it first with a weaker CC.

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

It isnt just a QoL improvement. A ding and a flashing taskbar when your queu for WvW pops, while you were busy watching youtube videos is a QoL improvement.

This is asking for the game to take over a part of your responsibility as a player to not misuse your abilities.

Revealed notification is already there. The only question is, why isnt it, or can’t it be made more obvious?

If someone wants to oppose revealed debuff being more obvious it’s fair to ask why it shouldnt be removed all togeather. Based on the arguments that have been offered opposed to the OP’s idea, it seems a stealth user should be able to pay attention and get by without an obvious UI tell anyway.

There could be a middle ground. Such as a big black target animation on the stealth user when activating a stealth skill while the debuff is active. That way they’re punished for not noticing (via CD without effect), but not punished for not noticing the weak UI debuff on their bar.

Terrahero.9358:

It isnt just a QoL improvement. A ding and a flashing taskbar when your queu for WvW pops, while you were busy watching youtube videos is a QoL improvement.

This is asking for the game to take over a part of your responsibility as a player to not misuse your abilities.

Effects like the Aegis shield and the Confusion swirls seem extraneous, then.

I agree that the queue pop change would be nice.

Bumping for relevance, since the lack of Revealed UI is still a fixable annoyance.

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

i actually like it!

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

Rusc.4978:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Rusc.4978:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

It shouldnt take any longer than it already does for thieves to stealth. They’re annoying as hell but invisibility is their armor. reveal is a debuff to their armor, and they deserve to be notified when debuffed, just like races already comment on the state of their conditions when they receive one.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Rusc.4978:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

It shouldnt take any longer than it already does for thieves to stealth. They’re annoying as hell but invisibility is their armor. reveal is a debuff to their armor, and they deserve to be notified when debuffed, just like races already comment on the state of their conditions when they receive one.

So it is “deserves” now is it? As I see it, you had better have purchased everyone’s copy of the game for them, before you would have any right to tell everyone what anyone “deserves”.

You keep posting in such definitives. So the counter to that would be, that since stealth is a counter to the vast majority of skills in the entire game, the larger portion of the community deserves an audio cue to offer a chance to counter it long before you deserve an audio cue that it is countered. So it seems rather fair that the majority gets reasonably congruent treatment to what you are claiming that the minority deserves.

dancingmonkey.4902:

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

coglin.1867:

So the counter to that would be, that since stealth is a counter to the vast majority of skills in the entire game, the larger portion of the community deserves an audio cue to offer a chance to counter it long before you deserve an audio cue that it is countered. So it seems rather fair that the majority gets reasonably congruent treatment to what you are claiming that the minority deserves.

You both mention the audio/visual indicators of stealth skills. Which stealth applicators are unfair and/or lack a cue? In case you are unsure about which stealth-application skill is which for Thieves:

Hide in Shadows has an interruptible 1s cast. Cloak and Dagger has a half second channel and requires a hit to proc. Black Powder and Smoke Screen both have a half second cast, a clear audio/visual cue, and require a combo with Heartseeker or Cluster Bomb. Heartseeker has a distinct, interruptable animation and requires a combo with Black Powder or Smoke Screen. Cluster Bomb has a distinct animation. Blinding Tuft has an interruptable half second cast. Shadow Refuge is a utility skill with a 60s cooldown, and has a distinct audio cue as well as a large floating house icon over the refuge; it applies Revealed to anyone who leaves the boundary of the refuge before the skill has finished pulsing.

Blinding Powder lacks a clear cue in PvP, as far as I know, but has a 40s cooldown; as a utility skill, it competes with every other Thief utility, including Shadow Refuge, Infiltrator’s Signet, and Shadowstep.

As for traits: Hidden Thief requires speccing into Shadow Arts, which is an unpopular traitline in PvP due to the inability to contest points in stealth, and it competes with Shadow’s Embrace and Cloaked in Shadow. Instinctual Response is conditional and directly competes with Flanking Strikes , Thrill of the Crime , and Long Reach . Last Refuge is one of the most hated Thief traits due to its capacity to trigger mid-animation and almost immediately apply Revealed. Descent of Shadows is conditional and competes with the other adept traits in Acrobatics, including Power of Inertia and Vigorous Recovery .

For Engineers:

The toolbelt skill Toss Elixir S lacks a cast time, but has a clear visual cue and a 60s cooldown. Cloaking Device is conditional.

For Rangers:

Hunter’s Shot is an avoidable projectile that requires a successful hit to proc the stealth. Blinding Tuft has an interruptable half second cast and must be foraged with a pig or warthog, which compete with every other pet including cats, dogs, and spiders. The jaguar’s Stalk skill only applies stealth to the jaguar, and has a 30s cooldown. Hide in Plain Sight is conditional and the invisibility is removed upon movement.

For Mesmers:

Decoy has no cast time, but has a 40s cooldown; as a utility, it also competes with Null Field, Portal, and Blink. Veil has a short window for interrupt, but a 90s cooldown and a clear wall; like Decoy, it competes with other utilities. The Prestige has a 30s cooldown and requires offhand torch—which I think is worth mentioning, since the Phantasmal Mage is widely considered atrocious. Mass Invisibility has a one and three-quarter second cast time, a clear animation, and a 90s cooldown; as an elite, it competes with Time Warp and Polymorph Moa. Desperate Decoy is similar in function to Last Refuge and the ICD doesn’t benefit from Illusionist’s Celerity .

I think that’s all of them. So which ones do you guys think deserve a better cue?

Edits: formatting 2 stronk. Pls nerf.

Rusc.4978:

You both mention the audio/visual indicators of stealth skills. Which stealth applicators are unfair and/or lack a cue? In case you are unsure about which stealth-application skill is which for Thieves:

I do not recall mentioning anything about visual. I was speaking purely in the context of audio. To my knowledge the only visual cue mentioned in this thread, was someone expressing changes to the icon that currently exist.

coglin.1867:

I do not recall mentioning anything about visual. I was speaking purely in the context of audio. To my knowledge the only visual cue mentioned in this thread, was someone expressing changes to the icon that currently exist.

I was replying to both you and dancingmonkey. I thought that referencing both of your comments in the beginning of my response would have signified that, but I apologize if it did not.

I took this portion of their comment as a reference to visual cues:

dancingmonkey.4902:

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies