With ferocity change you are totally destroying D/D ele.
D/D is already forced into burst because has no mean of staying melee….but with a 20-30% burst reduction ele will just die…having everything on cooldown without even being a threat.
Why are you doing to elementalist the same thing that was the main cause of warrior being out of meta?
the lack of mobility is definitely an issue RTL was a key spell of dual daggers, and i think you can understand why a FULL MELEE profession needs something to stay in combat range.
Or you can boost of 20% the damage of all D/D skill to compensate….but what you are doing is pushing D/D ele straight out of WWW wheree already is struggling.
Please reduce cooldown on RTL
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
It have been talken many times but before today we didn t had a patch hitting ele so hard while being so weak.
In WWW ferocity will kill any chance of roaming.
The rune change will hit ele directly.
The second sigil on 2H will again push 2H weapons hitting D/D
The weapon swap sigil buff loss will once again hit burst.
Ele DD lacks everything post patch…i can t even blind opponent if i can t keep them in fight.
Today fighting in WWW with an ele is already an uphill battle…after patch will just be trash.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
And here I thought that the devs wanted to buff eles… Well, no surprises here, eles always end up getting nerfed even if Anet admit that they need buffs.
Edit: Also, don’t forget about the ele and engi disadvantage regarding stacking sigils, it all adds up.
I agree, Elementalist mobility and avoid-capability has been overnerfed.
Really, the lower base HP of classes was supposed to come with an increase in damage avoidance. Guardians, Elementalists and Thieves were all supposed to do that differently. For Guardians and partially for Thieves, this works.
For Elementalists, it doesn’t.
Likewise though, the higher base HP classes should have a reduced amount of defence, and while one could argue that this works for the Necro with how bad siphoning is right now (all they do is soak damage), it certainly doesn’t work for the Warrior who can happily CC the enemy or block/avoid damage altogether.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Its about a melee profession lacking any way to stay melee.
You can give 100.000 HP to DD ele but if you let any other profession escape at will and nerf ELE burst damage you will be useless even more than warrior was at release.
Whatever devs do they should give a way for ele to stay in the proper range without being kited…CC isn t working since they changed how breakstun deals with launch…
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Its about a melee profession lacking any way to stay melee.
You can give 100.000 HP to DD ele but if you let any other profession escape at will and nerf ELE burst damage you will be useless even more than warrior was at release.
Whatever devs do they should give a way for ele to stay in the proper range without being kited…CC isn t working since they changed how breakstun deals with launch…
I wouldnt say that any other profession can escape a d/d ele. I am pretty sure that a necro will not be able to escape so a guardian unless there are mobs.
Edit: Though a necro will probably be able to kite a d/d ele with his chills and cripple…
I don’t feel like I can freely escape a DD Ele either. Sure I can blink away, but that actually has a CD (this seems to always a be a surprise to players). And well, I can keep you crippled, but that goes both ways.
Mind you, I run dual-swords, so I don’t mind being in melee that much. :P
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
if a PU mesmer can t get away from a DD ele the issue is on the mesmer player….
Stealth alone is more than enough to escape any profession but warrior and thief.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
if a PU mesmer can t get away from a DD ele the issue is on the mesmer player….
Stealth alone is more than enough to escape any profession but warrior and thief.
Because every Mesmer you meet is PU Blackwater, right? Because every Mesmer you meet runs a 1v1 spec?
You know, if you narrow your perspective down enough, it is easy to find imbalance. Especially if you look at a game mode the game doesn’t actually have in the first place.
If you regularly fight PU Mesmers – they need you to attack them to be a true danger to you, even Power-PU – then the problem is with you, sorry. The way to defeat a PU Mesmer is to simply ignore them.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Take those builds to proper pvp and tell us again how op they were.
sPvP isn’t “proper” PvP. It’s a minority game mode which happens to be at odds – mechanically – with much of the rest of the game. If you expect balance in smallscale PvP in a genre inherently unsuited to it (meaning RPGs), then don’t expect anything but disappointment.
It can still be a very fun time filler, and easily be the main attraction, but expecting balance is the part where I have to raise an eyebrow. You’re basically expecting the impossible. You cannot have combat balance in RPGs if the number of combatants per side is smaller than the total number of effective classes (effective classes, not classes).
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
if a PU mesmer can t get away from a DD ele the issue is on the mesmer player….
Stealth alone is more than enough to escape any profession but warrior and thief.
Because every Mesmer you meet is PU Blackwater, right? Because every Mesmer you meet runs a 1v1 spec?
Yes and yes…. and i play WWW daily…
You know a profession has insane escape capabilities when it starts being a scouting profession.
P.S: please don t asnwer the guy talking about meteor shower in a topic about D/D and ride the lightning ..its totally OT.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Full zerker with 12k HP with no points in arcana, somehow I fail to see how that is gonna work on the long run, unless you ambush a poor kitten on a road.
You know a profession has insane escape capabilities when it starts being a scouting profession.
But if it’s in WvW, why are you losing – or rather, why are you fighting – against a PU Mesmer? They’re so rubbish unless the enemy actively tries to kill them.
Just take a party and hunt the highwayman specs, Thieves, Mesmers, Warriors, everyone. Silly players will always try to play 1v1, and it’s easy to crush them.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
You know a profession has insane escape capabilities when it starts being a scouting profession.
But if it’s in WvW, why are you losing – or rather, why are you fighting – against a PU Mesmer? They’re so rubbish unless the enemy actively tries to kill them.
Just take a party and hunt the highwayman specs, Thieves, Mesmers, Warriors, everyone. Silly players will always try to play 1v1, and it’s easy to crush them.
No…
Mesmer is exactly what proves how easy is to kite a D/D ele without proper burst…
I am on both sides of the situation since i play both ele and mesmer.
And please we are not here to debate why roamers have a role in WWW… you can just read the hundred answers given to warrior and thieves trying to defend their status…
Having people to flip camps alone or harass spawnponts or once again scouting NEEDS A COUNTER.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
(and yes, this build is still viable till this day)
Lol, I really hope you’re joking. Showing a video of short clips with a guy fighting noobs getting hit by churning earth not even knowing what’s going on. We’re talking about semi decent players here. When semi decent players see RTL they dodge and put it on a 40 sec CD which also ruins the rest of that simple combo of updraft to burning speed since they dodged and aren’t in the same spot anymore. Not to mention you mentioned Diamond skin. I laughed out loud. Please stick to a thread where you know what you’re talking about instead of sticking you’re head into a thread saying that the most underpowered class is OP. Lawl.
(and yes, this build is still viable till this day)
Lol, I really hope you’re joking. Showing a video of short clips with a guy fighting noobs getting hit by churning earth not even knowing what’s going on. We’re talking about semi decent players here. When semi decent players see RTL they dodge and put it on a 40 sec CD which also ruins the rest of that simple combo of updraft to burning speed since they dodged and aren’t in the same spot anymore. Not to mention you mentioned Diamond skin. I laughed out loud. Please stick to a thread where you know what you’re talking about instead of sticking you’re head into a thread saying that the most underpowered class is OP. Lawl.
And please we are not here to debate why roamers have a role in WWW… you can just read the hundred answers given to warrior and thieves trying to defend their status…
Having people to flip camps alone or harass spawnponts or once again scouting NEEDS A COUNTER.
They have a counter, that is, not running alone. But anyhow, going off-topic.
I wasn’t contesting that Elementalists might have problems, I was saying that judging anything – in 1v1 – against a dedicated 1v1 spec on a rather 1v1-powerful class might not be a good idea.
Agreed so far?
Next up: This game was not designed for 1v1. As no RPG ever really is. It’s in the nature of their class system. And since nothing in this game encourages you to 1v1 – and in fact, everything disacourages 1v1 – do you honestly blame the devs for caring very very little about how you fare against a solo PU Mesmer?
That’s… simply not important.
Again, this doesn’t mean there’s no issues, especially in regards to Elementalist mobility versus health pool, as that was the original design idea of the different health pools. But the “I lose so much in 1v1 ;_;”-argument just makes you look silly, because oh noes, an unsupported and discouraged gameplay format is unbalance, big deal.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
WWW is meant to be unbalnaced was dead months ago…..stop deraliling topic please.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Seems a dev who’s preferred profession is ele has recently been quoted saying something like ‘eleocolpse’…
Most ele’s saw it as something good… what he meant was the death of ele
Either there is more on the cards because … tbh the changes I’ve seen announced do nothing but nerf ele’s (Celestial death, crit dmg, reinforcing condition meta).
The only advantage I see is with Crit dmg nerf we might be able to spec a little less into toughness….
Or he was taking the kitten….
What I would like to see is that same dev who is excited for the ele changes to come in here and explain why… As it seems delusional from the limited info we’ve had so far.
No he was so excited because ele would have a new role….
If you look at traits he refers clearly to STAFF ele becoming a HEALER.
Since even this is OT i won t discuss on the reason given by ANET itself for removing healers from the game…that proves a certain hate from anet towards ele profession.
And again its not about D/D
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
No he was so excited because ele would have a new role….
If you look at traits he refers clearly to STAFF ele becoming a HEALER.
Since even this is OT i won t discuss on the reason given by ANET itself for removing healers from the game…that proves a certain hate from anet towards ele profession.
And again its not about D/D
kitten being a healer -.- What you think we are? pve bots?
Another problem D/D has – No way to counter Range only builds. Even if Ride The Lightening was reverted. You can still be stunned, knocked back and such while IN it. It happened to me last night. Then you get the builds that are purely Ranged and have MUCH more access to range making abilities than D/D has access to gap closers.
Really wish D/D was given Magnetic Aura somehow. It is really needed against the likes of P/P Thieves, Rangers, P/S Engineers and such that have SO many ways to keep out of our range while continuing to do great damage with nothing we can do.
The Sigil and Rune changes are just another nerf to the class. While everyone else gets buffed by it – we get nerfed from it…
this elepocalypse i think meant the death of ele outside of trying to force it into a role that they said the game would not have.
sPvP isn’t “proper” PvP. It’s a minority game mode which happens to be at odds – mechanically – with much of the rest of the game. If you expect balance in smallscale PvP in a genre inherently unsuited to it (meaning RPGs), then don’t expect anything but disappointment.
It can still be a very fun time filler, and easily be the main attraction, but expecting balance is the part where I have to raise an eyebrow. You’re basically expecting the impossible. You cannot have combat balance in RPGs if the number of combatants per side is smaller than the total number of effective classes (effective classes, not classes).
It is proper in the eyes of devs. Besides, gw1 gvg, fa, jq was 8v8 with 10 classes after 2 “expansions”, ha was 6v6 for some time and ta, ra, ab, codex and kinda hb were all 4v4.
The balance will never be met but do I still expect the impossible if I expect devs to balance by observing pvp instead of wvw?
How many balance changes were done because of wvw and how many because of pvp? I’m pretty sure the vast majority of changes were because of pvp?
dodge rtl > 40 sec cd, no chance to escape.
classes with low base hp are supposed to play in active defense
guardian > aegis
thief – stealth, ShS
ele > …
incredibly high cd’s for CC and close gaps like rtl/LF
I sincerely hope that RTL is reverted back to its 20 second cooldown. Even without this luxury, I would be happy with a 15/30 cooldown – as long as the blocking/Aegis forcing long cooldown bug is fixed. The problem was always the range. Splitting the cooldown simply emphasised the bugs inherent within the skill and it is unfortunate to have not been fixed.
As for D/D specific problems, the Burning Speed evade frames and Blast finisher on Frozen Burst do nothing to address the ongoing problems the weapon set faces – that of being kited to death. D/D ele now faces the same problem double melee warrior did prior to the Dhuumfire patch as its cleansing capability has been severely cut.
A proper buff for the set would include:
Burning Speed cleansing movement impairing effects like Immobilise and Chill. Cripple cleanse optional, but Chill and Immobilise in particular are the bane of D/D.
Increasing the healing reward of Cone of Cold if it strikes an enemy. For a channelled Healing over Time, there is no skill floor reward for using Cone of Cold offensively. An alternative buff would be to make it cleanse 1 condition after its second pulse, which encourages opponents to interrupt the Elementalist and provide counterplay opportunities.
Making Dragon’s Claw fire 3 parallel projectiles to guarantee more hits out to 400 range, and increasing its coefficient by 0.1. This would reduce D/D’s reliance upon Fresh Air to outdamage Warrior’s Healing Signet passive and open up better sustained damage for Elementalist that isn’t Air. To elaborate using Zelyhn’s Skill Data
Dragon’s Claw: 0.375 (3 hits)| cast=0.5 aftercast=0.5 (DPS=1.125 coeff/sec)
Vapor Blade: 0.33 (2 hits) | cast=0.4 aftercast=0.6 {vuln 6s per hit} (DPS=0.66 coeff/sec, increasing to 0.739 coeff/sec @ 12 stacks of Vulnerability)
Lightning Whip: 0.7 (2 hits) | cast=0.5 aftercast=0.65 (DPS=1.217 coeff/sec)
Impale: 0.5 | cast=0.8 aftercast=0.25 {bleed 8s} (DPS=0.476 coeff/sec + Bleed to 42.5+0.05xCondiDamage /sec, maximum 7 stacks of Bleed for 42.5+CondiDamage x 7×0.05)
As you can see, merely increasing Dragon’s claw by 0.1 coefficient overall (0.034 per projectile) would bring it mathematically on par with Lightning Whip – and this is without the cleaving capability that Whip provides also. Right now all of D/D’s sustained damage is loaded into Lightning Whip and with the proliferation of Soldier’s/Healing Signet/Cleansing Ire Warriors, Fresh Air is needed more than ever, which only serves to pigeonhole builds.
These 3 changes alone would do much to improve the sustainability and sustained damage of the set whilst leaving the opportunity for counterplay. Contrast this with Evade frames which removes opponent interaction whilst the Burning Speed animation plays, or 3 more senseless Might stacks from Frozen Burst that do not address the set’s core issues.
Its not about the escape…
Given the fact RTLing from 400+ range meanse being 100% evaded, it means RTL is just 40 sec cd.
Once you burnt that you have literally 0 skills to stay in range.
Earth 3/3 is totally unreliable and useless against people with cond cleanse, stealth, teleport or just evasions…
DD ele basically is the profession who let almost any profession disengage and reengage at will even the slowest.
Until today you can just fight it with burst….but in the future with dps reduced there will be no role for DD in any situation from WWW to PvE…i won t comment on pvp.
P.S. fixing block and Aegis is not enough…
They should at least change the skill as they planned when they annunced the nerf.
I.E. no double cd on evasion, blind, invul and block…..but mostly evasion since the skill is far too easy to evade.
Or just reverting the CD nerf….would be the best option and wouldn t even give DD ele a similar escape chance like war and thief….(despite ele lacks the other mechanics that makes those 2 profession immortal).
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
