Guild Wars 2

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I’d like to see evasive shot see their initative cost moved up by 1.

I think it is unfair a thief can infiltrators arrow/withdraw/infiltrators strike/infiltrators signet around the map and still have initative at the end of it.

I propose that they employ a system like they use in swtor to add skill to the thief. If you have over 4/5 initative then you regain iniative at the current rate. If you drop below 5 iniative then you regenerate iniative at 50% of the current rate untill you have 5 initiative again.

They use this system in swtor to make the game more skill based and have more counter play. This way a thief can spam all their stuff to move from close to far in 10 seconds. But this way they would at least have to wait a little to have cooldown again.

Currently they never need to manage their initiative because it comes back so fast anyway.

I personally find there are a handful of top mesmers, top necros, top eles, top engis, top rangers.

But there are literally about 100+ thieves who are seriously “good” and the same for warriors. There are hundreds of powerful warriors and thieves who can dominate games. I think this shows how broken these classes are. They are literally so easy to pick up and play.

One thing I will say is that the lyysa nerf is huge for these classes. Lyssa is so broken when combined with healing signet or evades/stealth. Because the block/prot/regen/stab is multiplied by the fact when a warrior uses lyssa he is also healing for 500+ a second. And thieves are the same. Literally they have two lives with these runes so to finally see them nerfed could somewhat limit warrior/thief easy-mode.

I agree. Especially the first point about blocks and invulnerabilities preventing from revealing the thief is so stupid. It adds no counterplay.

Let’s talk about how Thieves are toxic for the game, when you Sensotix play an AI class whose best strenght is the most annoying one: cluttering teamfights with effects and AI units.

What’s broken about Thief isn’t any of those stuff. It’s the fact that bad thieves can get away with spamming because there’s not enough punishment for playing poorly in this game.

That is not a problem exclusive to Thief, it’s an issue seen throughout the classes. It just seems aggravated on Thief because of the initiative system: it allows bad players to do those kind of mistakes more frequently and the low/lack of punishment that it comes with it.

Other classes are locked by cooldowns, so the mistake → no punishment becomes less apparent.

But it’s there, in every single one of the classes. The game is designed to be fail-friendly for new players/casuals. I don’t think that’s ever gonna change and it’s a kitten shame.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Let’s talk about how Thieves are toxic for the game, when you Sensotix play an AI class whose best strenght is the most annoying one: cluttering teamfights with effects and AI units.

What’s broken about Thief isn’t any of those stuff. It’s the fact that bad thieves can get away with spamming because there’s not enough punishment for playing poorly in this game.

That is not a problem exclusive to Thief, it’s an issue seen throughout the classes. It just seems aggravated on Thief because of the initiative system: it allows bad players to do those kind of mistakes more frequently and the low/lack of punishment that it comes with it.

Other classes are locked by cooldowns, so the mistake -> no punishment becomes less apparent.

But it’s there, in every single one of the classes. The game is designed to be fail-friendly for new players/casuals. I don’t think that’s ever gonna change and it’s a kitten shame.

Nice way to derail from topic, gg.

I’m simply pointing out that the problem isn’t unique to Thieves, nor are Thieves causing it. The game was designed that way and it seems intended as far as Anet is concerned with the direction of the game.

Not sure what’s your point, anyway the only issue i see is disabling shot ( shortbow 3) spam.

I’ll say it plenty of times: add a kittening aftercast to the skill so you can’t spam it for ages without giving openings.

Crying about shortbow is silly, it counters mesmers and that is all.

You’re a good mesmer so you know you can use range in order to avoid shortbow spam.

If shortbow 3 gets fixed killing bad thieves won’t be an issue.

Sensotix, you seem to complain alot about thieves but you know that thief is direct counter to mesmer. Also crying for nerfs on ACTIVE defenses is lame.

Sensotix.4106:

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it.
Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer

Just wanted to point out some things that you stated.
1. The risk and reward on thief is already VERY high. You either kill or be killed(or run) in a short amount of time in most cases. If it’s an outnumbered fight in PvP a thief will most likely have a bad time.

2. Attacking out of stealth – I hear this all the time. But I mean really, a lot is depending on this. Hitting a backstab (on their back) is where most of the damage from thief comes from. Stealth isn’t that long mid fight, all it takes is one successful evade to throw off the backstab. As a thief, dodging other thieves’ backstabs is not very hard. Just one evade and they usually end up hitting me in front or their stealth wears off.

3. Spamming Evasive Shot – Alright I’m going to admit this is pretty dumb. I don’t do this, but sometimes I run into thieves that do. But I haven’t ran into anybody that makes it game breaking. It is pretty annoying, but nothing unbeatable. I would not mind a change to this as it doesn’t affect me and spamming this really takes the thief gameplay to somewhere it shouldn’t be.

4. Short bow auto – Mesmers have just as much deception as thieves IMO. Bouncing auto off of clones is a waste of time in my experience because I’m usually melting from the amount of conditions. I have a very aggressive playstyle, which may be also why I don’t pull out shortbow often. But I do not seeing short bow auto being changed at all. Shortbow is hardly used and is weak in most cases unless you’re supporting which is still a waste.

I think in a 1v1 Mesmer vs Thief is pretty balanced. I’ve won some and lost some. I’m by no means a pro thief, but I think we both hold counters to each other. Saying thief needs a drastic change is a little over kill IMO. Changing evasive shot to not be spammable is something I wouldn’t mind, but it wouldn’t change much. I’m not a fan of thieves spamming one skill. However it shouldn’t be a problem for anybody. Thieves that do this are usually really terrible and easy to down. The stealth is already 4 second reveal time in comparison to everywhere else in PvP, 4 seconds of a PU mesmer unleashing is already too much. The amount of condition damage from PvP lately is unbelievable. For me, that’s my biggest counter. Sometimes I die in seconds from the amount of condition damage some people put out. That’s with condition removal in stealth as well. So to say thieves don’t have high risks is wrong with our low health pool.

Smirgel.9460:

I agree. Especially the first point about blocks and invulnerabilities preventing from revealing the thief is so stupid. It adds no counterplay.

You mean spammable active defense.

The OP’s first complaint is definitely legit, thieves get rewarded for bad plays. While the target gets punished for making a good play. All this does is encourage spamming until you actually connect with the target.

I personally feel evade needs to be changed, as it stands now its just too strong. There are no skills that can negate evade and unlike dodge they are tied to offensive attacks. They either need to implement hard counters to evade or simply change it to where its no longer dodge with a different name.

agree, on spot. But again the mechnic of no cool-downs just asks for spam.

Shaddy.6931:

1. The risk and reward on thief is already VERY high. You either kill or be killed(or run) in a short amount of time in most cases. If it’s an outnumbered fight in PvP a thief will most likely have a bad time.

this part made me laugh^^….it SHOULD be like this, it is like this for almost every other offensive proffesion….but not for thief….
porting in, doing their dmgpaired with their evades, and porting out to not take the risk to take any damage. thats all thief does. and thats what makes this class (at least S/P) way superior compared to other glass specs

Shaddy.6931:

2. Attacking out of stealth – all it takes is one successful evade to throw off the backstab.

would be nice if it actually would be like this…but it isnt. like sensotix said, if a backstab/ immobilize from shortbow gets evaded/blocked/blinded the thief will most likely just attack once again and will achieve pretty much the same thing. it realy CANT be good if you use a block a blind an evade or whatever just to achive nothing, even if you timed it correctly….again just NO punishment for thieves mistakes

Shaddy.6931:

3. Spamming Evasive Shot – I haven’t ran into anybody that makes it game breaking. It is pretty annoying, but nothing unbeatable.

it just makes the thief invulnerable. it often makes the 3 seconds difference for the thief to get his heal/ lyssa/whatever up again which opens a possibility for him to do whatever he wants to, and if it doenst work out he still has an easy time(compared to other classes at his offensive level) to disengage…… i mean it is hard to kill a thief. its extremely hard to kill a good thief…even without this skill…maybe it doenst need to be changed. but it is a very very bad mechanic….long time spammable evade……nothing else to say……

generaly thievs need to get punished more for their mistakes, atm its just waaay too easy for them to disengage/ reset fights/ avoid getting killed
the mix out of their ridicolous mobility and their evades needs to be toned down……asap

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think it is unfair a thief can infiltrators arrow/withdraw/infiltrators strike/infiltrators signet around the map and still have initative at the end of it.

I propose that they employ a system like they use in swtor to add skill to the thief. If you have over 4/5 initative then you regain iniative at the current rate. If you drop below 5 iniative then you regenerate iniative at 50% of the current rate untill you have 5 initiative again.

this is a great suggestion.

Sickness.9831:

this part made me laugh^^….it SHOULD be like this, it is like this for almost every other offensive proffesion….but not for thief….
porting in, doing their dmgpaired with their evades, and porting out to not take the risk to take any damage. thats all thief does. and thats what makes this class (at least S/P) way superior compared to other glass specs

The time it takes to melt a thief in comparison to any other zerker spec class is much shorter. However it is made up by our mobility. Everybody seems to have a sour taste of some sort of “infinite mobility” that thieves have. Of course we have good mobility and damage we take that away from our squishiness And S/P lol.. most of your damage is coming from auto attack on S/P and pistol whip is getting nerfed anyways to be non-spammable.
Porting in and out of fights is very situational. So you go in and backstab somebody once and run away to take no damage. Did you help your team members? If it was a 2v3 before you got there you NEED to stay and help there is no hit and run. You can’t run very far so you’re inevitably going to take damage.

Thief is the hit and run class. Quick bursts, finish low hp, help to end fights quickly, and decap. However we can’t hold points (can’t hold/contest in stealth), hard to fight 1vX, low hp etc. Other offensive built classes can do all of those. You lose some you gain some… every class has a different role. If all that makes thief “superior”, then sure you have your opinion. Maybe you should roll thief then since you like all those type of game play strategies.

Shaddy.6931:

The time it takes to melt a thief in comparison to any other zerker spec class is much shorter. However it is made up by our mobility.

no. just no^^….compare thief and ele, both zerker, both doing nothing…an ele will get melted faster. do the same with mesmer…mesmer will get melted faster…
so now add the defensive mechanics….thieves defensive mechanics are the best out of theese 3 …..how is this fair?..i just dont know the answer.

Shaddy.6931:

Porting in and out of fights is very situational. So you go in and backstab somebody once and run away to take no damage.
Did you help your team members? If it was a 2v3 before you got there you NEED to stay and help there is no hit and run. You can’t run very far so you’re inevitably going to take damage.

thats not true aswell^^….most teams currently run defensive setups with a thief as offensive spec…if it is a 2v3 with lets say warrior&guardian versus guardian, warrior thief(just to have the high dmg class there aswell in this example) your people wont drop instantly if you are leaving. you could even burst, do dmg until you need to do something against the incoming dmg, decap far, rejoin the fight…and yes, you help your team like a LOT with simple moves like this. other offensive classes cant do this so easiely. often they cant even afford leaving a fight when they are low, cause as soon as they try to disengage a thif will finish them off… in fight they atleast can get some cc/ heal support from their teammates…
and keep in mind, if the enemy has some other kind of dmg dealer like lets say mesmer or ele, its no problem for you aswell. you can stick to him as long as you want, disengage whenever you want to if something goes wrong, and rejoin pressuring/surprising him, but if he goes low or needs to disengage there is no way for him to do so(beside mesmer portal…ha ha ). you cant escape a thief that realy wants to kill you.

Shaddy.6931:

Thief is the hit and run class. Quick bursts, finish low hp, help to end fights quickly. However we can’t hold points (can’t hold/contest in stealth), hard to fight 1vX, low hp etc.

yeah, thats true…………and every other burst class works like this aswell…beside the fact that they cant run as good as a thief can, while having no more sustain infight

Shaddy.6931:

Other offensive built classes can do all of those.

yes and no….if the offensive classes you mean are zerker warrior and necro you are right.
but there is not a single burst spec that can do this, so you are also wrong….burst specs are offensive specs aswell….

Shaddy.6931:

Maybe you should roll thief then since you like all those type of game play strategies.

yeah, already did it….its just insane how much of an advantage it is for the team….doesnt change the fact that im very sad about it…and i dont need to like theese “strategies” (:D), they are just superior compared to others.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

I’m simply pointing out that the problem isn’t unique to Thieves, nor are Thieves causing it. The game was designed that way and it seems intended as far as Anet is concerned with the direction of the game.

Blocked/evaded/dodged attacks from thieves not revealing them from stealth isn’t unique to thieves? What other profession has the luxury of having their attacks fail yet have no cooldown so they’re free to try again a second later AND within the safety of being stealthed? It’s not unreasonable to ask that failed attacks should reveal.

So Thief is direct counter to Mesmer, Ele, Ranger, and any other Zerker or DPS builds?

What is the direct counter to the Thief? Another Thief? Why play anything else then….

Thief does need some changes, The damage is fine, I can live with it as long as there is some risk in doing it. People argue that they have low hp, blah blah blah… So does Ele and none spammable defense like the thief can do. If a zerker ele misses his burst thats another 20-40 seconds before the combo will align again to burst. Before that happens you are trying to survive long enough for it to come back and doing minimal damage with crappy auto attacks and very easy avoidable ground targeted attacks.

I think the initiative increase on PW and Lyssa rune nerf is a good start. Next they need to look at the teleports Cooldowns/Range and z-axis ability and probably remove the Stun or split PW skill.

Morderger.6298:

So Thief is direct counter to Mesmer, Ele, Ranger, and any other Zerker or DPS builds?

What is the direct counter to the Thief? Another Thief? Why play anything else then….

Exactly, and this most-likely won’t change post-patch either. The reason why thieves are so devastatingly strong comes down to their risk:reward ratio being WAY skewed (low risk: high reward). What causes the low risk:
- Spammable instant teleports that give them great positioning and completely ignore enemy positioning/LOS
- Evasion spam via skills like disabling shot and PW
- Withdraw: uninterruptible, instant-cast heal (the heal portion isn’t interrupted even if the skill hits a static field or something) on a rediculously short cd.
- Lack of counterplay to stealth: as sensotix said, there is no way to punish a thief for missing their skills in stealth or just attacking straight into blocks/invulns. Spam that backstab mindlessly then! Add to this that it is IMPOSSIBLE for single-target weapons to do any damage at all even if I know where the thief is (because he is predictable as he never had to learn more than 1-2 combos to win).
- Best mobility for no investment, allowing disengages without the thief having to sacrifice anything.

Also, initiative does need a serious re-adjustment. It was intended as a resource that had to be managed, so that a thief could use more in the short term to burst but be stuck in the long term, or pace out damage with a steady supply. Instead, initiative is like an almost infinite pool that just reads: this thief can use any of his skills as much as he wants. The ONLY time I ever run out on my thief is using SB#5 too many times.

I am not suggesting to nerf all of these aspects that give thief superior survivability, but something has to go.

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it that strong

I guess if we were to take flanking strike as a shining example of good skill design then it would be good to make every kill with an evade, a chain skill which leaves a point in which the Thief is invulnerable and a point where he is vulnerable.

Evasive shot -chain to Crippling Shot

Split the functionality of Evasive shot so that you have to stop evading in order to cripple your target.
Same thing with Pistol whip, create a moment in which the Thief has to stop to do something else.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I don’t feel this is a problem. This is a counter to Mesmers and other classes with pets, I say leave it in for that reason alone.

Sensotix.4106:

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

I’ve always thought that this should be the case, but NOT for Aegis. It could create some ridiculous situations where the Thief can never get off a stealthed attack and also Aegis is often quite easy to obtain from friendlies. However, I really do think that actively blocking an attack from a stealthed target (Riposte, Counterattack, Illusionary Counter) should reveal the stealthed foe. This goes for all classes though, including a Mesmer summoning a phantasm from stealth. It would be a positive change that would allow for definitive counterplay.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

I’m simply pointing out that the problem isn’t unique to Thieves, nor are Thieves causing it. The game was designed that way and it seems intended as far as Anet is concerned with the direction of the game.

I agree on a couple points here; getting blocked should still reveal the Thief, and the Initiative system is riddled with flaws because it runs counter to the design of the entire game.

Something the Thief-haters don’t seem to understand though is that, while flawed, Initiative does not remotely offer any kind of real advantage to the Thief over other professions. In fact, giving Thieves recharges instead like everyone else would be a massive buff.
Because of Initiative, Thieves cannot activate their abilities with literally even half the frequency of other professions.

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it that strong

I guess if we were to take flanking strike as a shining example of good skill design then it would be good to make every kill with an evade, a chain skill which leaves a point in which the Thief is invulnerable and a point where he is vulnerable.

Evasive shot -chain to Crippling Shot

Split the functionality of Evasive shot so that you have to stop evading in order to cripple your target.
Same thing with Pistol whip, create a moment in which the Thief has to stop to do something else.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I don’t feel this is a problem. This is a counter to Mesmers and other classes with pets, I say leave it in for that reason alone.

i didnt use flanking strike as a good designed skill example i just wanted to point out that the only reason this skill is not completely broken is that you cant chain the evades like on shortbow while doing damage

Sensotix.4106:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

Preferably the same time that summoning a phantasm breaks stealth as well

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong.

The chained evading is weird.. I agree. I think it needs a small aftercast where you can poke damage in.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

That would negatively affect Thief in a lot of other game modes, as well as other PvP scenarios too. Countering Deceptive Evasion too well is hardly a good enough reason to hit Thief Shortbow that hard.

It doesn’t bounce if it doesn’t connect with your face in the first place! Let me remind you that it was already nerfed from heat-seeking status, and now is much less reliable.

It’s pretty funny actually

December 10th 2013 : increase initiative regen from 0.75/s to 1/s

2014 : increase every thief skills cost by 1

/headwalk

muscarine.5136:

It’s pretty funny actually

December 10th 2013 : increase initiative regen from 0.75/s to 1/s

2014 : increase every thief skills cost by 1

/headwalk

Heh, yeah, that .25 ini per second was offset by small nerfs to initiative regeneration traits. It was an effort to strengthen the baseline thief, while slightly lessening the importance of initiative regenerating traits.

I mean, going from .75 to 1 per second means that thieves get an additional 1 initiative every 4 seconds. If you are pistol whipping the hell out of a bunch of fools, I think that costing an extra initiative every Pistolwhip is a pretty decent shave to counteract that Initiative buff.

I don’t think what Anet did was THAT silly, I do see a little logic there.

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

livlaender.8790:

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

because mesmer has so many chills…

Sensotix.4106:

livlaender.8790:

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

because mesmer has so many chills…

Believe it or not, changes that thief needs don’t all revolve around making it an even matchup vs. a Mesmer. Harder counters exist than Thief > Berserker Mesmer.

Chaith.8256:

Sensotix.4106:

livlaender.8790:

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

because mesmer has so many chills…

Believe it or not, changes that thief needs don’t all revolve around making it an even matchup vs. a Mesmer. Harder counters exist than Thief > Berserker Mesmer.

Engi counters thief, let’s all cry about engies LOL.

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Sensotix.4106:

livlaender.8790:

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

because mesmer has so many chills…

Believe it or not, changes that thief needs don’t all revolve around making it an even matchup vs. a Mesmer. Harder counters exist than Thief > Berserker Mesmer.

Engi counters thief, let’s all cry about engies LOL.

Why don’t you give it a whirl and see how it feels?

Clone/phantasm attacks should reveal the mesmer
Also clones should not be able to proc incendiary powder, this is clearly an unfair advantage vs engineer that no1 else has
Also clones should not be able to follow and attack a target out of sight from the mesmer, this defies game logic and punishes players for outsmarting the mesmer (ranger pet is ok it is intelligent and sucks anyway)

This thief post is literally the same ppl posting the same crap that has all been done before. It’s just spam at this point

Thief is pretty important to wvw. It is the natural scout (and should be). It kills stragglers (because there should be a risk to getting back to a group).

It can ninja sentries and camps but not much else (well balanced)

On the other hand, it is really meh within the group (because it was designed to be a solo roamer).

You are not supposed to have “even odds” fighting a thief that hits you first out of stealth. However, you should do quite well with even 2 players, if you coordinate.

Run solo at your own risk.

How to derail a thread . I will say only this using Anet words’’ Thiefs need’s some shaving ,but small one’s ,we will wait for the new meta and see what happens’’ and i do agree with it .The thing that worries me is that if the thief gett’s nerfed something far worse will be born.

I’ve read this thread many times before it seems…

Get over it the meta will be changing a bit after the patch. 1v1 mesmer > thief

You’re just focusing on 1 aspect of the game

Drastic changes = An ending sequence of improvements of abilities, which will terminate after every skill was “improved”. Some people maybe recognize a mutuality between “improved” and “nerfed”.

The biggest problem with Evasive Shot or whatever it’s called (shortbow 3) is that it can be used when the thief is immobilized. Um, what? This should not be possible at all.

You can’t be serious…a mesmer…whining about how attacking while in stealth doesn’t reveal…

Spicyhash.7605:

The biggest problem with Evasive Shot or whatever it’s called (shortbow 3) is that it can be used when the thief is immobilized. Um, what? This should not be possible at all.

this problem isn’t a thief problem with SB#3. there are evasive skills of other professions, which should also work on this way. BUT immobilize only disables moving and not activating skills! Daze does the opposite. Stun both.
And like everybody knows anet differs between “evade on pushing v” and “evade on skill”. (otherwise , for example thief acrobatics trait II gives might every time you activate SB#3, S/D#3, D/D#3.)

in my opinion anet can fix “dodging with skills while immobilized”, but not only thief takes advantage of this issue. Only “evade skill spammer” (and that only can be thieves:P).

To all who are qqing about thieves get “No risk high reward” and all of that:
First of all, it IS fairly high risk fairly high reward. In fact, this comes into play EVERY time a thief uses CnD. All that needs to happen for a thief to literally crumble and be ruined for the rest of the fight is a missed/avoided/blocked CnD. Have you noticed that a lot of times when you’re fighting a thief and you’re not being aggressive they ONLY use their weapon skills? That’s because thieves need defensive utilities so that they can get away. You guys are mistaking this for something overpowered when really we do need these, or else we melt. Shadowstep allows us to escape or reset, no offensive use really, who would waste it just to disorient the opponent? Shadow refuge can be easily countered, it’s our salvation. If we didn’t have this we wouldn’t be able to escape a lot of the times.
Thieves are meant to be escape artists and damage dealers. This can easily be dealt with by being aggressive. If you’re aggressive they will not be aggressive back, they will use more defensive tactics and use their utilities. But if they do this, they’re not killing you, they’re just being annoying. Don’t let yourself be distracted. This is why people constantly complain about thief. They don’t know how the class works and how to fight it. If they spam HS use protection, LoS, OoR, Block, Blind, CC…I could go on. They can spam all they want but they’ll end up wasting their defensive utilities.

Nerf thieves and shortbow1 becouse im mesmer!
But be constructive of course.

Are you serious?

Stealth should break on attack.

If I put up arcane shield on my mesmer, it will absorb all three attacks without the thief breaking stealth.

Why call it stealth when in fact it’s just unbreakable invisibility. It confers such massive advantages and damage increases yet has absolutely no trade offs.

phaeris.7604:

Stealth should break on attack.

If I put up arcane shield on my mesmer, it will absorb all three attacks without the thief breaking stealth.

Why call it stealth when in fact it’s just unbreakable invisibility. It confers such massive advantages and damage increases yet has absolutely no trade offs.

To be fair then we mesmers get revealed when a clone attacks or using one the many stay stealthed while doing damage abilities

phaeris.7604:

Stealth should break on attack.

If I put up arcane shield on my mesmer, it will absorb all three attacks without the thief breaking stealth.

Why call it stealth when in fact it’s just unbreakable invisibility. It confers such massive advantages and damage increases yet has absolutely no trade offs.

Okay but to be fair phantasm and clone attacks reveal the mesmer as well.

The issue is. they go stealth, and there’s no counter play. I can blow cooldowns/dodges trying to avoid the incoming damage, but they just stealth again if they don’t get the attack resetting the fight in their favour and your manouveres achieved nothing.

To people who say ‘You can predict where they are in stealth!’. Don’t, I mained a thief for a year, and if you’re any good on one your oponent has no idea where you are.

Thieves should probably be revealed when an attack is blocked. If not that, at the very least they should lose initiative for spamming backstab/unload attempts. Backstab spamming rewards extremely unskilled play.

phaeris.7604:

The issue is. they go stealth, and there’s no counter play. I can blow cooldowns/dodges trying to avoid the incoming damage, but they just stealth again if they don’t get the attack resetting the fight in their favour and your manouveres achieved nothing.

To people who say ‘You can predict where they are in stealth!’. Don’t, I mained a thief for a year, and if you’re any good on one your oponent has no idea where you are.

If this guy can c&d a stealthed thief you predict where he is and hit him.
The rest is just free complaints.

The thief he fought was terrible. As I said, no decent thief will get hit whilst in stealth.

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

I agree that USING an attack should knock you out of stealth, not just hitting. I can perfectly time a Counterblow against a D/P Thief but that’s not gonna stop them from just attacking again.

The initiative mechanic would be cool if it didn’t recharge so quickly. As it is now it makes the class feel spammy and less interesting to fight. Miss the backstab? No problem just use Black Powder and try again…and again…aaaaand…again. Evan as a Warrior I feel like I have more mini-combos that I use depending on the situation. Against most Thief builds it feels like I’m seeing the same combo done over and over and it’s not as interesting to fight as other classes. What I REALLY can’t stand is the use of Shadow Refugee and remaining hidden for 10+ seconds. All you can really do if you don’t force them out of the circle is flail around and hope you smack them. I’m fine with stealth being a way to set up attacks but not as a way to avoid fighting. It’s less about being OP (although screw Pistol Whip) and more that the class is uninteresting to fight.

Other Warriors, Guardians, Necros, Engis, Rangers, Eles, all these classes can be fun to fight against. Thief and Mesmer, not so much. One feels repetitive and the other clutters your screen with visual effects.

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

Thief is the LEAST risky class to play. Best escapes in the game.