Guild Wars 2

Stealth and reveal is perfectly fine how it is (asides from trolling in WvW). If thieves get revealed each time a stealth attack misses, this will happen:

spvp: Dagger mainhand will be extremely weak. A thief stealths? Put up aegis/gear shield/arcane shield/whatever and wait. Simply wait. Either the thief attacks and gets revealed (while no damage from backstab is taken) or you have a free 3 seconds to capture the point while the thief just wasted 9 initiative (or a utility) to stealth.

WvW: Thief is stealthed, gets blinded or sees the enemy blocking… well, attacking would be stupid. So what will the thief do? Right, he waits for stealth to expire and simply stealth again. And again. Since thieves in wvw usually take 30 in shadow arts, there will be even more “perma-stealth” and more people crying about this unfair stealth mechanic.

Regarding shotbow #3:

Yes, it’s a little stupid. Simply increasing the initiative cost istn’t the best solution. It would not only punish the “evade spam” but also “proper” use of it, i.e. a quick evade to a hard hitting attack while creating a little distance.

Personally i really would like to see a sequence skill, just like FS/LS. It would prevent spamming the skill over and over while still being equally effective if only used once.

Regarding shortbow auto:

It is also perfectly fine as it is. As somebody else already mentioned: it would be the same if a thief asks for an engi nerf, because engis counter thieves.
Counters are fine. You can’t balance 8 classes without some builds/weapons/whatever countering others.
Shortbow auto isn’t a garanteed win against any mesmer, it isn’t a hard counter like automated response is to condition builds.

phaeris.7604:

The issue is. they go stealth, and there’s no counter play. I can blow cooldowns/dodges trying to avoid the incoming damage, but they just stealth again if they don’t get the attack resetting the fight in their favour and your manouveres achieved nothing.

To people who say ‘You can predict where they are in stealth!’. Don’t, I mained a thief for a year, and if you’re any good on one your oponent has no idea where you are.

Counter play is to prevent the thief from stealthing. It is only difficult against D/P thieves, which use 9 initiative to stealth, which is a lot.

Of course you can predict a thief’s movement, and of course it’s not a guaranteed win. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. A thief doesn’t have infinite teleports.

A troll thief in wvw with 30 SA…. well, thats a different story. But the reason some thieves i know (including me) go 30 SA is simply because of how broken condition bunkers are. Without condiremoval and regen in stealth you wouldn’t stand a chance.

Edit: reagarding risk/reward:
Thieves will always be the class which can disengage easily. It is how the class is designed and will most likely not change.
However that doesn’t mean playing a thief means no risk. Every time you go into melee range to backstab someone you are in danger, especially in team fights.

Having multiple escape options doesn’t equal low risk when fighting.

mrmadhaze.8706:

phaeris.7604:

The issue is. they go stealth, and there’s no counter play. I can blow cooldowns/dodges trying to avoid the incoming damage, but they just stealth again if they don’t get the attack resetting the fight in their favour and your manouveres achieved nothing.

To people who say ‘You can predict where they are in stealth!’. Don’t, I mained a thief for a year, and if you’re any good on one your oponent has no idea where you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRmmVOIUgIg

If this guy can c&d a stealthed thief you predict where he is and hit him.
The rest is just free complaints.

That was one of the most boring duels I have ever seen. Thief v Thief has to be one of worst possible matchups in the game if you like visceral fights.

everyday i read the same newspaper – yesterday’s newspaper.

repeating the same arguments from other threads doesn’t bring us forwards.
thief’s stealth will stay -> new stealth trait XIII and revealed buffed -> DA XII.
stealth attacks will stay as there are. And everybody wants a game which is on the way they want it because there is a possibility to force anet change something -> forum.

What happens if the player of a soccer team have the possibility to complain like we have it outside guild wars? the coach will make all their wishes true, sure…….NOT.

read my * signature ^^

suggesting nerfs without any buffs, you rly see thief from 1 Point of view, other aspects and builds are completely unwatched by you
every class has its Counter, like every build

So when they introduced the offside rule you think that wasn’t nescessary?

Maybe they should have just kept playing football without making any changes according to your sig…

phaeris.7604:

So when they introduced the offside rule you think that wasn’t nescessary?

Maybe they should have just kept playing football without making any changes according to your sig…

American or European football?

You really think offside would work in american football?

phaeris.7604:

The thief he fought was terrible. As I said, no decent thief will get hit whilst in stealth.

You are good at mirrow climbing, really.

BurrTheKing.8571:

That was one of the most boring duels I have ever seen. Thief v Thief has to be one of worst possible matchups in the game if you like visceral fights.

It’s not about how much funny is the fight, is about what you can do knowing your/other classes. Again, if this guy can predict where other thief is everyone with practice can do that.

But i understand that it’s easier going on with this childish crusade, becouse you know with all the problems you can smash the face against in this game… nerf shortbow#1!!!!

phaeris.7604:

You really think offside would work in american football?

Like I know much about either ;p

phaeris.7604:

Thief is the LEAST risky class to play. Best escapes in the game.

Nope! If you need to escape in the first place, then clearly there was a risk

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it that strong

I guess if we were to take flanking strike as a shining example of good skill design then it would be good to make every kill with an evade, a chain skill which leaves a point in which the Thief is invulnerable and a point where he is vulnerable.

Evasive shot -chain to Crippling Shot

Split the functionality of Evasive shot so that you have to stop evading in order to cripple your target.
Same thing with Pistol whip, create a moment in which the Thief has to stop to do something else.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I don’t feel this is a problem. This is a counter to Mesmers and other classes with pets, I say leave it in for that reason alone.

i didnt use flanking strike as a good designed skill example i just wanted to point out that the only reason this skill is not completely broken is that you cant chain the evades like on shortbow while doing damage

So in essence its an example of how to change the other skills to flow better and give players an opening? Isn’t that what you’re trying to say?

Honestly do people forget that even us thieves have to deal with thieves?

Honestly do people forget that even us thieves have to deal with thieves?

Aye. The only class that really threatens thief is another thief. This is true to a degree even in spvp but the most obvious it is in WvW. It’s really quite silly. If I notice that the enemy group doesn’t have thieves, I know I can engage pretty freely without the risk of being jumped on. As a full glass thief with 0 in shadow arts and no lyssa runes, I have to be careful with many other classes as well (e.g. nuke necros). But these are much easier to deal with because they can’t instantly jump on me from a range of 2000+.

phaeris.7604:

Thief is the LEAST risky class to play. Best escapes in the game.

A thief has to be revealed and in mêlée range in order to do damage. A Mesmer can sit in stealth a mile away and never exposing themselves while their clones and phantasms do all the damage. And when they DO come out of stealth, they have protection, aegis, block, evades and invuls. Blink can be traited to go 1500 range and can have half the cool down of shadowstep. So Please explain to me how you think thief is less risky to play than a Mesmer.

Also, you haven’t explained why you think it’s okay for a Mesmer to stay in stealth and DO DAMAGE, while a thief should be revealed when blocked, EVEN IF THEY DO 0 DAMAGE from the block. Why the double standard?

Shinjo.6092:

phaeris.7604:

Thief is the LEAST risky class to play. Best escapes in the game.

A thief has to be revealed and in mêlée range in order to do damage. A Mesmer can sit in stealth a mile away and never exposing themselves while their clones and phantasms do all the damage. And when they DO come out of stealth, they have protection, aegis, block, evades and invuls. Blink can be traited to go 1500 range and can have half the cool down of shadowstep. So Please explain to me how you think thief is less risky to play than a Mesmer.

Also, you haven’t explained why you think it’s okay for a Mesmer to stay in stealth and DO DAMAGE, while a thief should be revealed when blocked, EVEN IF THEY DO 0 DAMAGE from the block. Why the double standard?

Oh, I agree that it’s pretty lame that mesmers can hurt you while stealthed. I think the AI should stop attacking while the user is stealthed. Honestly, I don’t like stealth in this game at all. I’d raher it be something that you use tactically to set up an attack and doesn’t last more than 5 seconds.

Shinjo.6092:

Why the double standard?

Because he wants a class nerfed and his untouched to make the game easier for him. That’s what it comes down to really.

Okay, here’s a suggestion that leaves skillful thieves nearly untouched while punishing spamming: Thief weapon skills get a “soft cooldown” of 5s. In this 5s, thieves CAN activate the skill again, but it costs 2 more initiative. In addition, stealth skills cost 1 initative and get the soft cooldown as well.

This way, (ab)using the same skill over and over will deplete the initiative faster. Thieves are still able to burn their initiative for a burst or emergency evades, but not as often as now. The change to the stealth skills is mainly to award the counterplay of the thief’s enemy: If he dodges/blocks/evades a stealth attack, he successfully drained 2 initiative from the thief’s pool. The current reveal mechanics are untouched.

Sensotix.4106:

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

So are you saying that all AoE attacks need to be nerfed because they attack the mesmer and its clones?

Sensotix.4106:

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

A thief who spams short bow #3 is using up the initiative, he’s basically left vulnerable for you to try and kill him, if he tries to capitalize and switch weapons to attack you he’s gong to be running on low initiative, sorry but I don’t see this as a problem at all.

Sensotix.4106:

livlaender.8790:

i would like to add this: chill now affects ini regen

by this change no thief ever will be able to spam, if chilled and non thieves would have a very strong counterplay against thieves

because mesmer has so many chills…

This right here shows me that you’re a mesmer, who can’t fight thieves.

WHY PEOPLE don’t understand that ANet wanted a profession like the thief with the special #&%$/98 of using a skill more then one time without a cool down but initiative pool?!? it’s not like the other games all of you’ve played before. there are differences. not the old boring stuff. i don’t complain about 3 bars of abilities of the necro or the 4 of the elementalist. i really want more weapons skills on the thief but “no” there aren’t more AND I ACCEPT THAT THE OTHER PROFESSIONS HAVE THEIR ADVANTAGES. why u can’t see this fact.

why exist spamming? (in my opinion) because there are skills on many weapons sets which won’t be used:
on D/D #3 (power)
on x/P #4 (power)
on P/x #2 (power)
on P/P ?….yes #2 AND #4 and then there is the decision #3 or #5? yes, thieves like to chosse the better one to kill people: #3. so they use only #1 and #3 on P/P – great -.-

if we have skills we can choose instead thieves will spam less. easy and simple.

and when i read “soft”…..thief class is broken? “soft” cooldowns would be like spreading nutella spread bread with nutella….

eat my signature!

My 2c; I definitely think that an attack that is blocked, evaded, or blind-missed by a thief in stealth should pull them out of stealth. Two reasons;
1. As an attacker, if your big attack fails for whatever reason, you should have a larger reaction than “lol so what”. That’s not to say that having your attack dodged doesn’t hurt because you are wasting stealth time, but that’s far less of a punishment than what other classes eat.
2. Conversely, as a defender, it doesn’t really feel all that good to dodge a big attack but not feel its benefits. Successfully blocking or dodging a stealth attack should make you think “great, he’s failed his attack, let’s wreck him”. I don’t know much about gameplay because frankly I’m kind of a scrub, but as far as how it feels to fight a thief, it seems like it’d be rewarding to have that opportunity.

Sarrs.4831:

My 2c; I definitely think that an attack that is blocked, evaded, or blind-missed by a thief in stealth should pull them out of stealth. Two reasons;
1. As an attacker, if your big attack fails for whatever reason, you should have a larger reaction than “lol so what”. That’s not to say that having your attack dodged doesn’t hurt because you are wasting stealth time, but that’s far less of a punishment than what other classes eat.
2. Conversely, as a defender, it doesn’t really feel all that good to dodge a big attack but not feel its benefits. Successfully blocking or dodging a stealth attack should make you think “great, he’s failed his attack, let’s wreck him”. I don’t know much about gameplay because frankly I’m kind of a scrub, but as far as how it feels to fight a thief, it seems like it’d be rewarding to have that opportunity.

that’s right. and now i claim that everybody who is complaining about this was attacked by a thief who stayed longer than 3(4)sec in stealth, because u only have ca. 2 chances to hit your foe with #1 in stealth AND standing behind your foe (3-4sec stealth). and that was intended by anet. fact.

SR gives a very long stealth time and i think that might be ONE (the one?) problem. after 4 sec of SR, a thief only should get another 4 sec of stealth. so everything is like ANet has intended.

stacking stealth is not OP, why? you see it and if a thief uses CnD and the Blinding Powder, he will have 6-8 sec of stealth, ok, but also a skill on 40sec cd.

Another Truth Bearer, Well Done -OP-

A thief guild leader of 135 active member (whose in the process of of disbanding the guild at the end of April): told me, “Burnfall, go somewhere else if you want a balanced thief class: Balance does not exist in guild wars 2, don’t you get it” !

I think that’s the best advice given to me since i joined guild wars 2.

so…

there.

thank you! for your reading.

(all thieves in the guild laugh when others complain about thieves damage hitting too high!, Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Burnfall.9573:

Another Truth Bearer, Well Done -OP-

A thief guild leader of 135 active member (whose in the process of of disbanding the guild at the end of April): told me, “Burnfall, go somewhere else if you want a balanced thief class: Balance does not exist in guild wars 2, don’t you get it” !

I think that’s the best advice given to me since i joined guild wars 2.

so…

there.

thank you! for your reading.

(all thieves in the guild laugh when others complain about thieves damage hitting too high!, Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Stop running bearbow and you might not have such a tough time against thieves.

A 3/4s or 1/2s cd on stealth attacks would allow a decent amount of counter play and teefs wouldnt be able to spam till they hit.

Oh and for all the mesmers out there i started roaming with sig of domination on my shatter build, it is epic for stunning d/p thieves when they black powder.

Otherwise the evade spam is kinda annoying, but @Burnfall you sound very ignorant the perma invis isnt a problem in most fights unless you are trying to 1 spam them with a ranged weapon and the damage is nothing special. Go whine about longbow skill 2 tracking and doing epic damage in zerker gear, Shatter mesmer being way OP, killshot being undodgeable death button, churning earth+lighting flash being too hard to predict (it is lols with portal though), 12k Gs mauls from invis (new sigil of int buff coming up GOGOGO valk maul rangers), and engi big ol bomb magnet jumpshot from stealth.

On power rangers in pvp i have found muddy terrain+krytan drakehound+stone spirit to do just fine vs most non s/x teefs.

Yes, some builds get countered by others. That doesnt mean that there is a complete lack of balance it just says play to your strengths. Or get better and use better builds (magi gear mesmer will never be viable does that make mesmer weak?).

And pretty sure @Burnfall OP wouldnt agree with what you said at all.

This calls for Permanent Bobblehead! For Thieves only, ofc.

I thought this was an April Fools thread after reading the first post; and then I saw the date this thread was started.

Pwent.2639:

Go whine about longbow skill 2 tracking and doing epic damage in zerker gear,

Epic?? 20k rapid fire?? You make my day, pls play a ranger, it is epic when your pet can land a hit in a fight against a thief due to stealth.

Sensotix.4106:

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

Lolwut?! Removing an aegis doesn’t reveal the thief? And missing attacks doesn’t either? I just thought all thieves were really good at stealthing and always hitting their target. This changes my perspective on this class, I thought my aegis would protect me from a 1st attack then revealing him so I could strike (mains guardian) but THIS is how stealth functions? Good lord this needs to be fixed

Jelzouki.4128:

Sensotix.4106:

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

A thief who spams short bow #3 is using up the initiative, he’s basically left vulnerable for you to try and kill him, if he tries to capitalize and switch weapons to attack you he’s gong to be running on low initiative, sorry but I don’t see this as a problem at all.

……… Don’t most thieves run that trait that makes initiative regen faster while stealthed :/

Abe Kleine.3568:

Sensotix.4106:

So currently there is a bug that if the thief manages to interrupt a mesmer with the basilisk venom he will proc halting strike on the mesmer which will get fixed BUT please also make sure to fix the proc of chaotic interruption as well which is the exact same thing basically

Risk and reward on thief:

The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth

If the thief hits the target he will get revealed BUT let’s say the enemy has aegis it will first rip off aegis without revealing him -> attacking an enemy out of stealth should always reveal the thief imo

If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it…if the attack gets evaded (actually any attack out of stealth) it will not reveal the thiekitteno actually it is better for the target not to dodge any attack out of stealth until the stealth runs out and instead take all the damage? not a good mechanic imo -> missing an attack when stealthed should always reveal the thief -> adding risk to thief

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it thaaaat strong

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

Lolwut?! Removing an aegis doesn’t reveal the thief? And missing attacks doesn’t either? I just thought all thieves were really good at stealthing and always hitting their target. This changes my perspective on this class, I thought my aegis would protect me from a 1st attack then revealing him so I could strike (mains guardian) but THIS is how stealth functions? Good lord this needs to be fixed

And yet people who say the exact same thing as you are haven’t really noticed this ‘issue’ until now.

In actual regards to the original post ~

Listen I get, that we want Mesmers to be the best they can (90% of my play is on a Mesmer), but these “suggestions” are purely geared towards the fact that trick shot effed up your A.I. placement. They have absolutely zero to do with any actual real quality of life improvements.

Whilst a thief is on shortbow with his weapon swap cooled down, they’re not stealth trying to back-stab you. And if they’re not trying to backstab which is clearly such a huge issue for some of you as well, they’re in shortbow (which is not okay either apparently) and do you SEE how this is just a circle of kittenery yet?

So what is this about the way aegis functions? Or about stealth attacks? Or about what is really just a utility weapon for a thief and nerfing it’s god kitten auto-attack? Or is it just a complete joke? Because it may be April fools and I should be laughing.

I mean are we serious now.

H o w.

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

i have over 1.2k tournament wins on thief.

Sensotix.4106:

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

i have over 1.2k tournament wins on thief.

So after 1.2k tournament wins…

Haha, that means jack watch the challenger of the arena vs. some “random scrub without title” in this vid:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-New-meta-no-OffHand-for-poor-people/first#post3837475
Skip to 2.30 for the part I am talking about.

Thieves are overpowered, mesmers get hardcountered by sb 1… HAHA!

Sensotix.4106:

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

i have over 1.2k tournament wins on thief.

Then you are a very good player.
But tell me me this if you get revealed with any attack from stealth why even have it?
Any guardian can just use virtue of courage or any theif can just use blinding power or any block etc which will always counter it so then whats the point?
If everyone can counter it

Hm why not just make a 4 seconds cooldown on the #1 skill in stealth? You fail, you still remain in stealth but without your stealth attack. This prevents spamming 1 to backstab but doesn’t nerf the survivability of the thief.

Also, I think #1 shortbow should have 1 bounce less as most bounces have a max bounce of 2 targets, while this skill has 3. Damage could be compensated slightly if needed.

Evasive shot spam is kittened, but doesn’t take away that he loses all initive points to do that. I don’t mind it too much.

Rather than asking to reveal on attack rather than hit, why not make blocking skills like counterblow, illusionary counter, etc to not proc unless a target is out of stealth? Timed use therefore would be rewarded, and we wouldn’t have to ask for a ridiculous nerf to thief again.

As for the aegis thing, its fine as is. Aegis is a tell card in where the thief is. When it comes off, big letters scream “Block”. It’s pretty obvious the thief is on you for a backstab (the only melee stealth attack worth worrying about), so dodge or turn around or rain dps/aoe on you. BS won’t hit hard unless the thief pumps power/crit dmg, meaning they will be more squishy the harder it hits. Here’s a basic scenario I will paint.

Guardian: See’s thief enter stealth, has aegis up. Seconds later their aegis pops off. They can use gs #2 or #5, hammer #5 or 4, run forward and throw down staff #5, #5 on shield, #3 on mace, #5 on focus, etc. Basically you are to tire out the thief and exhaust their stealth. If they start blowing cooldowns (utility) to maintain the stealth you’re just making them that less threatening if they try to escape later on. Personally #2 on GS would do the best because it hits hard and is a short cooldown so it is most reliable in scaring the thief.

tom.7468:

Any guardian can just use virtue of courage or any theif can just use blinding power or any block etc which will always counter it so then whats the point?
If everyone can counter it

Then you just succesfully baited a 90 second cd Virtue of Courage. How is this even an argument? Have you never played a class that has actual cooldowns before? :p

Well, aegis application will happen passive on guardians and can also happen as AoE, this can no way reliably be forseen by anyone it will totally remove control over backstab and all other stealth attacks it will become subject to rng (oh, rng equals skilled counterplay why did I not think of this), personally I would not mind this if aegis was not so easy to come by for guardians and anyone around them, if everyone had to build for aegis like say mesmers…

Evasion on sb 3 is 0.5 sec or so dumping all initiative into it assumeing 15 points trickery and includeing initiative regen gives you approx. 2 sec of immunity by evade, if you then use roll for initiative to recover initiative and dump that again into sb 3 you will get another 3 evades inclueding the roll for initiative sums up to approx. 3.5 sec of immunity by evade with blowing everything includeing a stun breaker.
Compared to all other immunities, blocks and evades in the game this seems a bit “costly” to me also you will severly mess up your positioning by doing that.

Reduce bounces by 1 on sb1 but compensate the damage, awesome from a thief’s perspective please do this, less retaliation damage, awesome. But do not dare to complain once this is in the game.

So here is my constructive and respectful post.

Renny.6571:

tom.7468:

Any guardian can just use virtue of courage or any theif can just use blinding power or any block etc which will always counter it so then whats the point?
If everyone can counter it

Then you just succesfully baited a 90 second cd Virtue of Courage. How is this even an argument? Have you never played a class that has actual cooldowns before? :p

In the mean time the guardian can go to town on the defenceless thief, why would a thief ever bother with a guardian with such a hard counter like that, that’s doesn’t include all the other blocks and blinds a guardian has access too. It doesn’t matter if the CD is 200s, you are able to stop a thief dead in it’s tracks with one skill.

didnt read through any of the comments really, but this is a bad post. For startes, if a thief spams 3 for evade, kill him. just blatantly kill him. he is out of attacks, and his shortbow is out. secondly, that is one glassy thief is his 1 skill is killing all your clones. i bet you could out glass him if you were good at the game. third. one immobilize is getting you killed? this is clearly a l2p issue. looks like you got pwnt by a bad thief and now you are crying about it.

tom.7468:

Sensotix.4106:

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

i have over 1.2k tournament wins on thief.

Then you are a very good player.
But tell me me this if you get revealed with any attack from stealth why even have it?
Any guardian can just use virtue of courage or any theif can just use blinding power or any block etc which will always counter it so then whats the point?
If everyone can counter it

the thing is in a teamfight or 2 v 2 etc aegis will always get removed and/or have a short duration but timing a 3 second aegis or block well should be rewarding and revealing the thief….because otherwise there is literally no counterplay to a thief in refuge if you cant knock him out because in a time range of 15 seconds he can burst you and even if you dodge it he can just try again..thats what i mean

ryan.6217:

didnt read through any of the comments really, but this is a bad post. For startes, if a thief spams 3 for evade, kill him. just blatantly kill him. he is out of attacks, and his shortbow is out. secondly, that is one glassy thief is his 1 skill is killing all your clones. i bet you could out glass him if you were good at the game. third. one immobilize is getting you killed? this is clearly a l2p issue. looks like you got pwnt by a bad thief and now you are crying about it.

can you read? the immobilise if obviously a bug that needs to be fixed and shouldnt be killed
also better check the leaderboards before you complain about my skill
next please read more carefully as i said these are several things that are a bad design and having ALL OF THEM TOGETHER can kill a mesmer easily…not JUST the immobilise or JUST how stealth works…sometimes i even wonder if people take the time reading more than the headline…

I find reading a Mesmer Q.Q about thief rather difficult without scratching my head. Mesmer can out-glass thief, because their clones can do a lot of the heavy lifting. It is like putting two betta fish in the same tank and one can destroy the other one at any given moment, but the Mesmer once mastered, is far stronger and thief has to really time their burst or it kills them.

NinjaEd.3946:

I find reading a Mesmer Q.Q about thief rather difficult without scratching my head. Mesmer can out-glass thief, because their clones can do a lot of the heavy lifting. It is like putting two betta fish in the same tank and one can destroy the other one at any given moment, but the Mesmer once mastered, is far stronger and thief has to really time their burst or it kills them.

You are wrong. If you had followed spvp a little or watched tpvp streams, you’d know why. In high end play a thief is a lot better than a mesmer. The OP is a top player by the way.
Of course, in duels mesmers can compete but then they need to use a pure duel spec that is useless at everything else.

urdriel.8496:

Pwent.2639:

Go whine about longbow skill 2 tracking and doing epic damage in zerker gear,

Epic?? 20k rapid fire?? You make my day, pls play a ranger, it is epic when your pet can land a hit in a fight against a thief due to stealth.

Obviously a joke, that whole part of the post was sarcasm. Zerker longbow rangers are food for just about everything in 1v1. Thought the undodgeable kill shot gave away the tone of the section, i guess not though. And i do play ranger it is a super fun profession.

Anet has decided that permastealth is acceptable, lol. move on to a better game.

Sanduskel.1850:

Anet has decided that permastealth is acceptable, lol. move on to a better game.

Dark days are upon us.

The current list of OP’ness

1) Warriors
2) Mesmers
3) Necromancers
4) Engineers
5) Elementalists
6) Thieves
7) Guardians
8) Rangers

Enough said…
Thats the truth, where Thieves are standing as everybody, who plays out Warrior, Mesmer, Engineer, Elementalist smart enough and knows, how thieves functionize (by having self played one long enough to know what they do and how) and saying, the Thief you fight agaisnt is no 30 SA Perma Stealth annoying player, the Thief will always have a hard tiem to fight these if the foe uses just the right builds…

Condi Bunkers are a Thieves grave, due to the poor Base Health, the poor Condi Removal Abilities and nearly no access to Stability to counter the tons of CC Skills all those Classes have plus also not the ability to take from those Bunker builds all their stupid Boons away quick and efficiently to get even a chance to deal some serious damage…

vs Warrior: The typical 0815 Warrior you meet on in WvW as a Thief is either the GS-S/W Warrior, that tries you rip you into pieces short and quickly with 100B and if he has no success with tha, he keeps on running away like the most kittened coward, that these kind of players are, paired with their god like self regenerations they have from their Healing Signet, Buff Food and eventually Dolyak Rune 6.
Or you meet on the Hambow Warrior, who first spams you full with conditions, just to smash you to death with knock downing Hammer attacks afterwards, if you aren’t quick enough to get the immobilize away, again with insane self regen paired to the poin,t that you seem to do nearly no damage or they keep you at distance and can easily reset the fight to regen back to fulth health.

vs Elementalist: in WvW when roaming around, you will always hit on one and the same Elementalists, because it is basically the only build, that gives Eles some overpowered survivability there and that is playing the D/D Bunker Build, which sets again on insane too much self regen and skills to block incoming damage so that the self regen easily can keep your health always up so that you think, you deal basically no damage, while you are already nearly dead … from all the Conditions you took into the face meanwhile from Burning and Bleeding, while getting all the time also CCed with Chill and Cripple and occasionally also launched/stunned right and the moment when you try even to fight back.
If you don’t land on them first a critical basilisk venomous backstab, you can basically forget the fight instantly.

vs. Engineers
Their condition bombing became in the last year of skill changes just ridiculous overpowered, together with skills that gave same a condi bunker build, that is near as same as OP, if not more OP than that of the Ele self.
In WvW you meet on basicsally 3 Enginners most of the time.

1) A Flamethrower/Grenade Combination or
2) A Flamethrower/ Bomb Combination
3) Only Grenade or Bombs, therefore with a 3rd Utility Tower

Within all these towers they play a Condi Bunker build, as the towers easily heal them up, while dealing also damage and supportign them, while they spam you full with confusion, blind and more burning. in the end so much conditions, that no thief can heal them away, before you get all of them new on you

vs Necromancer:
they also just nuke you full with Conditions, especially here Torment, because they know, you must put only that on you and keep you feared then, because they know, you have practically no stability to prevent gettign killed quickly from Torment and if something wents not so good, they hide behind their death shroud to receive no direct damage, until they can fear you again and nuke you again with their Staff AoEs
Most of them use then also Plague to further give you conditions quicker, than you can heal away as a cover for torment

vs. Mesmer.
They are always the same, they hide in stealth while spamming you full with dodge roll clones and the way too overpowered GS phantasms that can litrerally kill you in seconds, if you eat 2 of those directly after another with all of their hits.
Their stealth makes it easy for them to be played with full berserker to dish out insane damage.
And if somethign doesn’t work like planned, they either wait on the perfect moment to transform you into a stupid moa to have easiy play with you fort some seconds that are enough for the GS phantasms to shred you into pieces, or they use mass invis and teleport them self so quickly away with their bursts that they easily reset the fights to regen back to full health.
——-

What I want to say with all this is… Thieves are not the only problem.
The game itself has MANY broken mechanics.

Orpheal.8263:

vs Elementalist: in WvW when roaming around, you will always hit on one and the same Elementalists, because it is basically the only build, that gives Eles some overpowered survivability there and that is playing the D/D Bunker Build, which sets again on insane too much self regen and skills to block incoming damage so that the self regen easily can keep your health always up so that you think, you deal basically no damage, while you are already nearly dead … from all the Conditions you took into the face meanwhile from Burning and Bleeding, while getting all the time also CCed with Chill and Cripple and occasionally also launched/stunned right and the moment when you try even to fight back.
If you don’t land on them first a critical basilisk venomous backstab, you can basically forget the fight instantly.

DD ele never was overpowered, yet nerfs aimed at PVP SCEPTER/DAGGER cantrip ele hindered the profession so much it disappeared….

Now if you are arguing that the most underpowered and crippled by nerf, build is OP (as you might have red in the last months) you are simply suggesting lack of knowledge about last 6 months game changes.

Now, there is possibly only one profession that can kill a thief…

Its glass cannon fresh air ele that can kill a thief in few seconds….but its unviable in almost any other matchup and also is the easiest prey for thieves themselves…

If you ask your fellow thieves players in thief section they will tell you that in roaming WWW a thief can die only if its way below average experience or AFK..

They argue it may not be the best build for zerging, or they struggle to kill warriors…but you will never hear an experienced thief saying they actually “die” to any other profession.

P.S. i still have the quote in my sig from devs
P.P.S. also what you say about other profession is as wrong …. and i ll let other players disprove you.