Guild Wars 2

I just don’t understand why a 1v1 class, becouse thief it’s a dueler and you know it, should be nerfed just becouse everyone pretend to be effective against everyone and in every circumstance with any random build.

Also becouse what i see in wvw is just a big tower farming blob
Just a kittenildish, huh? Overall becouse most of you play some builds as much cheesy as thief’s :p

Because no class should be immortal,
and also because by game design thief is not “the dueler”

You might have forgotten the game description about the lack of PROFESSION roles in favor of profession builds.

That means you are supposed to kill a zerg build, but thief is not supposed to be at advantage agaisnt any other profession with roaming builds….

And if you don t know the importance of roaming you should ask in www section where they will gladly explain you.

LordByron.8369:

Because no class should be immortal,
and also because by game design thief is not “the dueler”

You might have forgotten the game description about the lack of PROFESSION roles in favor of profession builds.

That means you are supposed to kill a zerg build, but thief is not supposed to be at advantage agaisnt any other profession with roaming builds….

And if you don t know the importance of roaming you should ask in www section where they will gladly explain you.

Thieves are immortal, they are totally overpowered it is totally impossible to kill one.

Everything about that proffession is OP.

Proof here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-New-meta-no-OffHand-for-poor-people/first#post3842714

mrmadhaze.8706:

I just don’t understand why a 1v1 class, becouse thief it’s a dueler and you know it, should be nerfed just becouse everyone pretend to be effective against everyone and in every circumstance with any random build.

Also becouse what i see in wvw is just a big tower farming blob
Just a kittenildish, huh? Overall becouse most of you play some builds as much cheesy as thief’s :p

Because no class should have one specific role in this game. This is almost quoted from what arenanet has been saying at early game till now. One of the reasons why there is no holy trinity, but why make a class that is only good in roaming and nothing else? Oh yeah, of course, I forgot: Thief is good in roaming and trolling. Something that brings ‘’all them kids to the yard’’. Just remove the lameness, make the class equal to other classes I.E. by giving everyone the same effect on standart game mechanics and buff if compensation is needed.

No one pretends it to be op with any build against any spec and if someone does then sure you can call him idiotic, but atm thief does need some changes because the lameness of the class only gets worse which only makes the game worse too.

Thief was once usefull in groups when they were the class with the most blast finisher, which they still are, untill they started to spam giving other skills blast finishers too and made thief become pretty much useless unless you’re fighting a guild.

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

If you think thief is risky, you’re playing it wrong.

infantrydiv.1620:

tom.7468:

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

Couldn’t had said it any better myself. If they mean the ones not even in combat then thats common sense they cant perma stealth while fighting.

If you think thief is risky, you’re playing it wrong.

I beat( not nessesarily kill) most theives in spvp with necro, with fair numbers on both sides ofcourse. the ones that give me the most problems is pistolwhip because of the stun. Most are really squishy and either die or run in a couple seconds.
Hambows and cc engineers however… They are pretty tough to beat.
If a theif stealth and run away so what? then you just won the point.

Bazzoong.7145:

LordByron.8369:

Because no class should be immortal,
and also because by game design thief is not “the dueler”

You might have forgotten the game description about the lack of PROFESSION roles in favor of profession builds.

That means you are supposed to kill a zerg build, but thief is not supposed to be at advantage agaisnt any other profession with roaming builds….

And if you don t know the importance of roaming you should ask in www section where they will gladly explain you.

Thieves are immortal, they are totally overpowered it is totally impossible to kill one.

Everything about that proffession is OP.

Proof here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-New-meta-no-OffHand-for-poor-people/first#post3842714

The video actually proves the opposite of what you are saying seeing as how the first 2 opponents that went down were…yeah you guessed it…thieves.

Burnfall.9573:

Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!

He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!

He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!

All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.

Not I

Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”

’That’s it in a nutshell’

You need to understand that every class has its advantages, if theif didn’t have some of the skills people complain about, the class would be way too underpowered.

As a Thief I am all for upping the initiative cost for evasive shot but not for any of the other changes. S/D is really draining on the initiative pool already. Besides, thieves only have 2 damage skills on each weapon combination. The dual skills and auto attack. for shortbows it is clusterbomb and auto attack. Thieves can only use these skills if the opponent fails to put pressure on the thief so we can DPS freely. This is exactly why it is good to nerf PW. It’s evade is too long and it does not match this philosophy. I can agree that SB 3 could use a nerf as it breaks the action. It is not skillful to spam 3, then V, then stealth and or heal. It breaks the pace of the game.

The other weapon sets are in a good spot because they are not spamable. People say they are, but they are not. You run out of initiative and if you are running in full zerker every mistake is deadly. Running out spells your death.

Where guardians have heavy armour, a lot of boons and heals, cc and support, we have stealth and some evades.

Stop hiding your head under the sand with what devs said.
No trinity doesn’t mean no roles.
That’s why i see zerker only blobs with random characters and build, so much variety!! becouse the meleehammerbunker role doesn’t exist
It’s just an excuses.
Easy to claim it when you need something to say for your crystorm.

I am curious where Anet claimed that only thieves can roam. link please?

mrmadhaze.8706:

Stop hiding your head under the sand with what devs said.
No trinity doesn’t mean no roles.

you are wrong

Originally Posted by Jon Peters, Arenanet

Being able to adapt to situations is something that we feel makes combat more exciting. In Guild Wars 2, the combination of weapon swapping and skill versatility give each profession the ability to adapt to combat situations and change their role.

Burnfall.9573:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!

He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!

All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.

Not I

Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”

’That’s it in a nutshell’

I have never been hit by ANYTHING for that much, nor have I hit anything that high, not even an up-leveled light armor character. I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth before and a 15k killshot. Never a backstab.

As an almost full glass build, with 25 Bloodlust stacks, 5 Applied Strength stacks, and 25 might from guardians empowering (which probably brings me to around 4,000 total Attack rating), I can hit about 12k-15k on a tower claimer NPC in WvW depending on how much vulnerability my guild’s necro puts on him. Take away the 25 stacks of might and I hit about 9k backstab on the claimer.

Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.

You’re either making it up, or the people you talk to in your guild are making it up to upset you.

Sensotix.4106:

ryan.6217:

didnt read through any of the comments really, but this is a bad post. For startes, if a thief spams 3 for evade, kill him. just blatantly kill him. he is out of attacks, and his shortbow is out. secondly, that is one glassy thief is his 1 skill is killing all your clones. i bet you could out glass him if you were good at the game. third. one immobilize is getting you killed? this is clearly a l2p issue. looks like you got pwnt by a bad thief and now you are crying about it.

can you read? the immobilise if obviously a bug that needs to be fixed and shouldnt be killed
also better check the leaderboards before you complain about my skill
next please read more carefully as i said these are several things that are a bad design and having ALL OF THEM TOGETHER can kill a mesmer easily…not JUST the immobilise or JUST how stealth works…sometimes i even wonder if people take the time reading more than the headline…

No i read it. and i still think you are a baddy. Sorry if basilisk venom is bugged, like you said earlier, but that doesnt mean thief needs a re-work. cant handle 2 seconds immobilize? not our fault. auto attack killing you? not. our. fault. I hope you respond to me again and actually tell me how this auto attack is killing you Ses.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth.

You have been hit by a churning earth? :O

LordByron.8369:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth.

You have been hit by a churning earth? :O

Got hammer trained and then teleport-churned.. 1v like 15.. won’t say who, but it sucked lol. :P

LordByron.8369:

You have been hit by a churning earth? :O

It’s not that difficult to hit people with it outside of 1v1 combat.

LordByron.8369:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth.

You have been hit by a churning earth? :O

Baiting dodges then teleport churning. Yes, it happens more than people think.

Jelzouki.4128:

You need to understand that every class has its advantages, if theif didn’t have some of the skills people complain about, the class would be way too underpowered.

It would be the scum of a warrior’s boot. Anet needs to add DR to spamming weapon skills before the Q.Q piles rack up so high that they start nerfing more weapon skills.

so thief can’t have a what, maybe 4 second evade spam? leavening them useless after they’ve burnt their inti? a warrior( i know i know going for the easy target) can trait him or herselves to have, and correct me if I’m wrong, 6- 8 seconds of endure pain and then their shield block to run back into a tower and /laugh at me? i see your point lets nerf the thief more

gartz.7013:

so thief can’t have a what, maybe 4 second evade spam? leavening them useless after they’ve burnt their inti? a warrior( i know i know going for the easy target) can trait him or herselves to have, and correct me if I’m wrong, 6- 8 seconds of endure pain and then their shield block to run back into a tower and /laugh at me? i see your point lets nerf the thief more

Shield block is still susceptible to some field skills that are unblockable (naturally), like static field, marks (if traited), etc. Sadly most warriors I see blow every single cooldown in a fight, ultimately making them useless after the 10 or w/e seconds expire. Even when you put a wall skills up they just continue to button smash with LB. Basically, it isn’t hard to stop a warrior from entering a tower, ele on the other hand….(mist form, teleport, success. If for w/e reason they don’t succeed, vapor form, success.)

Well as a very experienced Ele I went and made a Thief a while back and started to get to know the class and all a bit better so I could use it as my main. Now I am not trolling or anything, but it feels like Thief is in a similar state as Eles, as you only have like 2-3 cheese builds and there are a lot of things you simply cannot do as well as other classes (warrior, guardian, mesmer for example).

I have mostly (though not only) played the S/D build and it might be just that, but as a person who has bashed thief before I have to say it does require a lot of skill to make the class work, and even when it does… it sometimes feels lackluster.

Feel free to flame me, but no nerfs are needed on Thief for sure.

>>Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.

Burnfall might be a rabbit.

ryan.6217:

Sensotix.4106:

ryan.6217:

didnt read through any of the comments really, but this is a bad post. For startes, if a thief spams 3 for evade, kill him. just blatantly kill him. he is out of attacks, and his shortbow is out. secondly, that is one glassy thief is his 1 skill is killing all your clones. i bet you could out glass him if you were good at the game. third. one immobilize is getting you killed? this is clearly a l2p issue. looks like you got pwnt by a bad thief and now you are crying about it.

can you read? the immobilise if obviously a bug that needs to be fixed and shouldnt be killed
also better check the leaderboards before you complain about my skill
next please read more carefully as i said these are several things that are a bad design and having ALL OF THEM TOGETHER can kill a mesmer easily…not JUST the immobilise or JUST how stealth works…sometimes i even wonder if people take the time reading more than the headline…

No i read it. and i still think you are a baddy. Sorry if basilisk venom is bugged, like you said earlier, but that doesnt mean thief needs a re-work. cant handle 2 seconds immobilize? not our fault. auto attack killing you? not. our. fault. I hope you respond to me again and actually tell me how this auto attack is killing you Ses.

okay now and for all check the leaderboards before you call me a baddie and/or watch esl.

The leaderboard bragging is strong in there. If you’re so pro you should kill those ‘bad thieves’ spamming one skill.

Thief is my third class so I certainly play one.
They have plenty of risk.

They also are the most annoying class in the game in many situations (running back to your group). But isn’t that their purpose?

Do you really want a game where you can just run around to “the one fight on the map” with no real risk? Boring.

As for their “getting away”, of course they can. Otherwise, what good would they be as a scout?

To me the issue is if you are paired up, can a thief easily kill one of you and escape? I find it really depends on the skill of the two players running together vs the thief.
That is the ideal balance.

I could care less if the thief gets away if he really doesn’t kill anyone.

And a thief in a group setting is very susceptible to AE and often adds little unless the group getting played against is a bit disorganized.

Any class with low HPs and low armor is going to have higher risk. With that can come higher reward with skill. A GOOD thief (I’m not there yet) is going to ruin your day.

a t s e.9614:

The leaderboard bragging is strong in there. If you’re so pro you should kill those ‘bad thieves’ spamming one skill.

Assuming the classes are balanced. Which they’re not. Which is why this thread exists.

Renny.6571:

a t s e.9614:

The leaderboard bragging is strong in there. If you’re so pro you should kill those ‘bad thieves’ spamming one skill.

Assuming the classes are balanced. Which they’re not. Which is why this thread exists.

thank you very much some people don’t get it

I’ve said it many times before…. The QQ is real.

thief and also mesmer need drastic changes

mesmer => remove the clone wars clones :P
thief => lower the spam

1)Just saying that same reveal should go for summing phantasms in stealth…. back to teef

2) shortbow #3 spam could use some adjustments, maybe making evade skils disables during imobilize?

3) The autoatack bounce is just bad luck sry. There are many profesions, builds, weapon sets so 1 will always be preffered in some scenarios. Ele has similiar bounce while necro has no actual cleave. + any zerker vs zerker is gonna hurt, I think if the evasivnes was adressed it would be enough to prevent a thief kiting you to death with 1-3-1-3-1-3

Bad thieves getting away with spamming shortbow #3? Never seen such thing. It can indeed save them from a few hits, but once initiative is over, it’s over.
I never got “kited to death”, perhaps because I also used a ranged weapon.

Hermes.7014:

Bad thieves getting away with spamming shortbow #3? Never seen such thing. It can indeed save them from a few hits, but once initiative is over, it’s over.
I never got “kited to death”, perhaps because I also used a ranged weapon.

of course they dont only kite to death but they evade some really heavy attacks with spamming shortbow 3 especially when immobilised and then they use a combination of sb 1 and 3 to kite while still doing decent dmg

Funny how mesmers want people to stand still and eat all the burst. If dodging wasent possible , you wouldn’t like it either, a hammer warr would CC you to death.

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

I used a Warr quite long and now I am starting delving into a Thief. Yep, being a thief leaves you little room to take hits (cause of their low health) but they have quite a fair share of “tools” to actually avoid being hit and even if they get hit they can leave combat area quite effectively.

Orpheal.8263:

vs Warrior: The typical 0815 Warrior you meet on in WvW as a Thief is either the GS-S/W Warrior, that tries you rip you into pieces short and quickly with 100B and if he has no success with tha, he keeps on running away like the most kittened coward, that these kind of players are, paired with their god like self regenerations they have from their Healing Signet, Buff Food and eventually Dolyak Rune 6.
Or you meet on the Hambow Warrior, who first spams you full with conditions, just to smash you to death with knock downing Hammer attacks afterwards, if you aren’t quick enough to get the immobilize away, again with insane self regen paired to the poin,t that you seem to do nearly no damage or they keep you at distance and can easily reset the fight to regen back to fulth health.

Where to start?

My warr has about 3.2-3.5k armor and usually a successful backstab deals 4-5k damage. The 6th Dolyak Rune gives you 30hp/sec. On the contrary Adrenal Health minor trait can grant a warr 3 times that amount.

Warriors mostly use Hammers (i don’t like them that much) cause they got many benefits compared to other weapons. I use S/S-LB condition build and thieves can cleanse all my conditions (except torment) and when get cornered they just move away to see them again with full health after some seconds. The best chance a warr has against a thief is Stun+Burst… be that 100B or Eviscerate.

Just the amount of times and the duration of getting invisible is too large by thieves.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Just the amount of times and the duration of getting invisible is too large by thieves.

To what you wrote above, add :

1) evasion
2) blindness
3) fail (miss/blocked) attacks doesn’t break stealth

thief profession has one of the most powerful toolboxes to make up for their squishy-ness.

I just would like to see them be removed from stealth when attempting attacks be if they miss.

Yes thieves need drastic changes.

Mug to crit again
CnD damage reinstated
3 sec reveal
BS damage increased by 20%

There’s a few things about stealth that should work differently:

- Attacks missed because of blind, and against blocked and invulnerable enemies should still reveal the thief.
Why? Thieves should have to pay more attention to their targets and their own effects while using stealth. Be more aware. Do not attack if your attack will have no effect.
Want to lose blindness without losing stealth? Use an appropiate condition removal.

- Non-melee, non-projectile, non-AoE single target direct hits like those from Flamestrike, Blood Curse and Chains of Light should miss against cloaked targets without breaking the skill’s targeting.
Right now these skills will finish their activation and hit cloaked targets if the skill started activating before the target went into stealth.
Instead, they should only hit if the target is targetable at the moment of the strike, so stealth can be used to make them fail.
For example, with Flamestrike:

• Go into stealth, you are cloaked when activation finishes, the skill misses, but any other effects still work, like Pyromancer’s Puissance.
• Go into stealth, but leave leave stealth right before activation finishes, the skill still hits because that skill’s individual targeting didn’t break. But they still have to target you again because the enemy’s target lock on you was lost because of stealth.

- Single-target non-projectile, non-melee channeled skills should cancel their channeling when the target goes into stealth.
Examples of these skills are: Spatial Surge, Wrath, Arc Lightning, Confusing Images, Ghastly Claws, Life Siphon and Life Leech.
Right now these skills will finish their channeling, even if the target it’s not visible.
Instead, if the target goes into stealth mid-activation, the rest of the skill should be canceled.

Why? These skills require the caster to “keep an eye” on the target. Stealth is designed precisely to make enemies lose target on you.

With a bit more risk and a bit more defense in the form of a new counter, stealth would work in a more natural way.

No!
Thief doesn’t need drastic changes….
What it needs is:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Remove-thieves-from-wvw-and-spvp
What he proposed as the title for his post is the ultimate solution everyone has been wanting and not saying.

lol at the sanduskies who defend this op nonsense.

Azukas.1426:

Yes thieves need drastic changes.

Mug to crit again
CnD damage reinstated
3 sec reveal
BS damage increased by 20%

maybe in your world but not in pvp

I’ve never had any real complaints against Thieves, however the first thing the OP brings up about the stealth thing I completely agree with. I play a Guardian and I remember the first time i experienced a Thief in stealth stab my aegis stay in stealth and then connect the backstab anyway. First thing i thought was “is that a bug? because if its not, that’s the lamest thing I’ve seen and it makes no sense”

Flumek.9043:

1)Just saying that same reveal should go for summing phantasms in stealth…. back to teef

2) shortbow #3 spam could use some adjustments, maybe making evade skils disables during imobilize?

3) The autoatack bounce is just bad luck sry. There are many profesions, builds, weapon sets so 1 will always be preffered in some scenarios. Ele has similiar bounce while necro has no actual cleave. + any zerker vs zerker is gonna hurt, I think if the evasivnes was adressed it would be enough to prevent a thief kiting you to death with 1-3-1-3-1-3

1). Don’t disagree.

2). That’s kind of the point of SB #3 spam, because you can’t dodge roll while immobilized. A stationary thief is a dead thief.

3) Common issue that is fair to say about thief. Repeated use of the same skill is rather frustrating and doesn’t lead to an interesting duel of any kind.

I fear what might happen after the patch since it looks like the new runes and sigils are giving out more damage to everyone and thief is barely changed.PW wasn’t the only set that was over the top,backstab needs to be lowered,attacking and missing in stealth needs to activate reveal,something has to be done about heartseeker auto realigning the thief on you where most of them just AutoA you down then INSTANT CAST STUN to deny healing on steal,and lastly shadow refuge which should have only been a get away mechanic it even has refuge in its name which mean protection from danger/escape gives out too much stealth and isn’t on a high enough cd to be only used if you have no other choice not i blew all my cds stupidly to take down one guy what do i do n…OH WAIT GIANT AOE ESCAPE.

I hope they can atleast fit some more changes to them so they don’t kill the game for potential new players when they realize this class itself denies a certain playstyle cause of how good it is by DESIGN.I also hope they can look over some classes like spirit rangers elite which should be something more like illusion of life and even mesmers instant cast stun that puts on immob.However if they can’t fit all these in by the patch date don’t bother at all.Better to get all the cancer at once than just some.

Sensotix.4106:

Azukas.1426:

Yes thieves need drastic changes.

Mug to crit again
CnD damage reinstated
3 sec reveal
BS damage increased by 20%

maybe in your world but not in pvp

I main a mesmer and this needs to happen so thieves can have a chance

[Attacks missed because of blind, and against blocked and invulnerable enemies should still reveal the thief. ]

There is a problem with this statement.
If a thief trait’s stealth, then each stealth skill they have will only stealth them for 3-4 seconds MAX, with shadow refuge offering them a longer stealth once every 60 seconds.

there are 3 total blocking weapon skills that last 2 seconds, 2 on a Mesmer and 1 on an engineer.

all of the utility skills that block last a minimum of 4 seconds

aegis " which blocks" lasts 20 seconds

blinds start at 3 seconds and go up.

the only invulnerable skill that might not last 3 seconds is the mezmer distortion.

The desire for a thief to lose stealth and gain revealed when they are blocked/miss/hit an invuln/blinded, is EXTEMELY not well thought out. It would degrade most of the use of stealth, a thief could never land a backstab.

Most thief stealth comes from 2 things, either they cloak and daggered someone,in which case you have already messed up since THAT IS THE SKILL YOU BLOCK!!!.
Or the thief used a pistol offhand to burn 9 out of their 12 total initiative to gain stealth and dash at you, AND YOU DID NOT HIT THEM WITH A STUN OR DAZE WHEN THEY DID THE EASY TELL OF BLINDING POWDER FIRST.

Look at your suggestion. It is an attempt to punish the thief for playing correctly.
You are trying to reward the warrior/ell/mezmer/guardian/ whoever, WHO HAS ALREADY MESSED UP BY LETTING THE THIEF STEALTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

sorry for the caps.