Guild Wars 2

I am wondering if the “On Crit”—- Fire—Air—-etc take effect on turret hits. I am at work so I can’t test at the moment. If they don’t then I really think sigils for engineers need to be looked at.

ALSO

I suggested on the engineer forums that this profession SHOULD be able to equip 2 weapon sets until a kit is equipped. Equipping a kit would then grey out the second weapon set. I made this suggestion because I think it is unfair to assume that engineers would ALWAYS have a kit utilized.

Engineers always get lumped in with elementalists when it comes to weapon swapping and I think this is unfair. Elementalists’ class mechanic IS attunements and attunement swapping. They HAVE to utilize this mechanic and doing so they still have access to all their utility slots.

Engineers on the other hand have the Tool Belt as their class mechanic. They do not have mandatory kits equipped and have to use up their utility slots to do so. They could also choose NOT to equip kits. There are plenty of other utilities to choose from. Right now there are lots of engineers playing 3 turret builds for example. Why should they be denied a weapon swap and an entire category of sigils because they do not choose to slot one kind of utility?

The treatment of this profession seems to be all over the map. I know it is the youngest profession but it should stop being treated like the moronic stepchild with adhd

Turret effects often don’t count the player as the originator – for example, Cleansing Burst will clear two Conditions, and not contribute at all to Condition Remover.
Perplexity runes also don’t trigger on Turret effects, so I’m pretty sure Sigils don’t affect Turrets.

I dont even think turrets can crit :/

Nope, they can’t.

turrets can’t crit, but also none of the proc sigils effect turrets, i think the Smoldering sigil might effect the burning duration of flame turret though, if you’re going purely for sigils increasing turret dps then you could use Sigil of Frailty which has a 50% chance of applying 10 seconds of vulnerability every 2 seconds when you hit the target, effectively increasing the turrets damage by 1% each proc.

While I thank you all for the replies..

they seem to only be about the first part of the post and skipped the 90% of the rest of it. That sucks that turrets don’t trigger crit sigils or even crit at all for that matter. But that being said I would rather have the 2nd part. I would love to have a weapon swap if I have no kits equipped. That way I could utilize swap sigils like Leeching and Battle. If I could use Battle I could then make better use of str runes which would then make me build less hybrid and more power yada yada… Basically further increasing engie build diversity.

I want to run 3 turrets and still have a weapon swap please. Or 2 turrets and elixir S.. 1 turret elixir S and Rocket boots…. etc etc etc

It’s the least played and most ignored by devs. There is one guy on their team that plays engi but I’m not entirely sure he even knows all the kits.

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

While I thank you all for the replies..

they seem to only be about the first part of the post and skipped the 90% of the rest of it. That sucks that turrets don’t trigger crit sigils or even crit at all for that matter. But that being said I would rather have the 2nd part. I would love to have a weapon swap if I have no kits equipped. That way I could utilize swap sigils like Leeching and Battle. If I could use Battle I could then make better use of str runes which would then make me build less hybrid and more power yada yada… Basically further increasing engie build diversity.

I want to run 3 turrets and still have a weapon swap please. Or 2 turrets and elixir S.. 1 turret elixir S and Rocket boots…. etc etc etc

I didn’t respond to the second part because I’d already replied to it the first time it was posted on the Engineer boards – in support of it, because it’s the most efficient means by which the ‘some engineers will use Kits, so no engineers can swap weapons?’ quandary could be resolved without making a hardline either direction.

As an Engineer who almost never uses Kits, of course, this is something I’d have a personal interest in seeing happen; if they ever add new weapons to the Engineer class (please give me a hammer oh god why don’t I have a hammer), it’d be very nice and might lead to whole new sets of builds.

problem mainly comes from I see this as less “I want to use a second weapon” aka rifle to pistol swap, more a “GIVE ME SWAP SIGILS FOR FREE!” you have access to swap sigils with out being stuck in that skill set, you can get access to the three crit sigil without having to be stuck in the set you swapped to for 10 seconds, you can hit mekittenit, got back to rifle in 1 second and abuse 3 huge crits on rifle if you so pleased. what other class can do this? if you start in fire, you cant go back to fire to abuse the crit on ele for example, you would have to start out in another attumenet. “I dont wanna use kits!” well I dont wannause swap sigils so dont break the game just for your own wants and needs. We have the means to use swap sigils, just cause you dont wanna take the time to take the steps to do it, and make the sacrifices is your problem.

Dice Dragon.4326:

problem mainly comes from I see this as less “I want to use a second weapon” aka rifle to pistol swap, more a “GIVE ME SWAP SIGILS FOR FREE!” you have access to swap sigils with out being stuck in that skill set, you can get access to the three crit sigil without having to be stuck in the set you swapped to for 10 seconds, you can hit mekittenit, got back to rifle in 1 second and abuse 3 huge crits on rifle if you so pleased. what other class can do this? if you start in fire, you cant go back to fire to abuse the crit on ele for example, you would have to start out in another attumenet. “I dont wanna use kits!” well I dont wannause swap sigils so dont break the game just for your own wants and needs. We have the means to use swap sigils, just cause you dont wanna take the time to take the steps to do it, and make the sacrifices is your problem.

I don’t get the whole “for free” thing as if I am being unreasonable. Every other profession has access to these sigils “free” without having to sacrifice a utility slot. That’s all I’m asking for.

How is it gamebreaking to implement a mechanic exactly like the one possessed by every single class, except for Engineer and Elementalist, on the condition that the user not use Kits? The crux of your ‘argument’ seems to be ‘getting swap sigils for ’free’ is bad,’ so let’s take a look at that.

• Kits provide access to swap sigils pretty much on-demand, limited only by the sigil’s ICD.
• Kits can access swap sigils even if switching directly from Kit to Kit, without ever switching to the weapon being swapped to and from.

• Weapon swapping is, on my Thief, on a 9-second cooldown, which aligns with at least some swap sigils’ ICD; Warriors have a traitline that improves their swap speed.
• Weapons only access sigils that are on the weapon.

In short: Kitswaps actually do get swap sigils for free, or at least at a hefty bargain, whereas weaponswaps need extra copies of a swap-sigil. A four-kit Rifle Engineer with a swap-sigil on his Rifle can effectively access five copies thereof: One on his Rifle, one on his Medkit, and one on each of the other three Kits.

How about an actual reason to treat every Engineer as if they would all have Kits equipped, rather than going with OP’s suggestion?
Anybody have one?

HgH seems like it might be too strong with being able to weapon swap between p/x and rifle + take other stuffs as your utilities… I obviously can’t test this, but it’s a hunch.

What would make that especially strong, as opposed to an HgH now, though?

Anymras.5729:

What would make that especially strong, as opposed to an HgH now, though?

Because it would allow you to take another elixir instead of a kit (nade or toolkit now in the current HgH) and still have a 2nd weapon set. So you would be able to deal more damage with more might, cleanse more conds, and still have all the benefits of the p/x plus rifle on top of that. Like I said though… I can’t test this myself and see how much stronger it would be though. It’s just my suspicion.

Sooooo..engies would be running around with full might stax? That would definitely be a problem… I didn’t think of that. No other classes do that in this meta /cough WarriorElementalistGuardian…. ahem sorry excuse me. Or have ridiculous condi clear /aaahhhchooo WARRIORClensingIre…. Geez….these friggin allergies.. Anyway I just wanted to say I see your point. Except for the fact that I really don’t.

I don’t HAVE to slot kits. If devs want engies to be forced into kits then fine..do like elementalists attunements and get rid of tool belt. That way I can still utilize all my utilities.

If the above suggestion is unpalatable, which it should be, then just give me my godkitten second weapon set if I don’t have any kits used.

I dont agree with giving weaponswap and then losing weaponswap when a kit is slotted. It would make the oppertunity cost for a kit far to high.

You have two full fledged weapons. Then by equiping 1 kit you lose your weaponswap, so you trade a weapon for a weapon with no sigil. And you spend a utility slot to do it.
Disregarding the fact most kits are worst then a real weapon anyway.

Thats not a good trade-off at all for using a kit.

Terrahero.9358:

I dont agree with giving weaponswap and then losing weaponswap when a kit is slotted. It would make the oppertunity cost for a kit far to high.

You have two full fledged weapons. Then by equiping 1 kit you lose your weaponswap, so you trade a weapon for a weapon with no sigil. And you spend a utility slot to do it.
Disregarding the fact most kits are worst then a real weapon anyway.

Thats not a good trade-off at all for using a kit.

You think people will stop using kits? I didn’t think of that. Its possible. I doubt people would slot just 1 kit anymore…but then again have you seen how limited our weapon selection is? EG TK are just as good as regular weapons in my opinion.

Regardless, if it is a case of people using kits less than they do now… I’m ok with that. They are not the class mechanic. Again. That is the tool belt.

If the choice is:
1. No second weapon set. Kits are nearly a must have and use up utility slots.
or
2.Granted a second weapon set which is greyed out if a kit is slotted.This frees up our utilities. This also may make kit usage lose some efficacy.

I truly believe 2 is the lesser evil

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Terrahero.9358:

I dont agree with giving weaponswap and then losing weaponswap when a kit is slotted. It would make the oppertunity cost for a kit far to high.

You have two full fledged weapons. Then by equiping 1 kit you lose your weaponswap, so you trade a weapon for a weapon with no sigil. And you spend a utility slot to do it.
Disregarding the fact most kits are worst then a real weapon anyway.

Thats not a good trade-off at all for using a kit.

You think people will stop using kits? I didn’t think of that. Its possible. I doubt people would slot just 1 kit anymore…but then again have you seen how limited our weapon selection is? EG TK are just as good as regular weapons in my opinion.

Regardless, if it is a case of people using kits less than they do now… I’m ok with that. They are not the class mechanic. Again. That is the tool belt.

If the choice is:
1. No second weapon set. Kits are nearly a must have and use up utility slots.
or
2.Granted a second weapon set which is greyed out if a kit is slotted.This frees up our utilities. This also may make kit usage lose some efficacy.

I truly believe 2 is the lesser evil

I feel it’s worth noting that the Engineer’s main-hand weapons were intentionally (according to the Class Balance Philosophy) made lackluster – because of Kits, which offer a bundle of other advantages, besides.
People would still use Kits, just as people still use no-Kit builds.

Truth be told, i still can’t understand why engineers haven’t got that second weapon. The toolbelt doesn’t warrant such a penalty – other classes get three signets with no penalty (guardian) and a single mini-utility cannot replace 5 weapon skills outright; also, utilities and toolbelt are balanced together, so even strong toolbelts are balanced via weak utilities (see: elixir R).
Kits neither, as they are optional; and it makes no sense at all to give a fixed penalty for an optional thing.
And it isn’t like traits and utilities are more potent than other classes by design – quite the opposite, as some kits are directly balanced over the traited versions (making the base ones outright useless).
In the end, that leaves us balanced in terms of traits and utilities…and with a single weaker main weapon by design. And there is no way that can be balanced.

But that can be seen even in the balance philosophy livestream. There is an huge discrepancy between how they are perceived and the official design. Especially since engineers are supposed to provide versatility through utility skills…and instead are pidgeoned into using kits most of the time to make up for the lack of weapon skills.
It is no surprise that the class is considered to have an higher skill floor than the others…it ended up being weaker by design, so it is up to players to make up for it.

Manuhell:

I agree that you should be able to get “on swap” sigils to work without the use of a kit.
I agree that allowing the engineer to take 2 of the following Rifle, P/P and then P/S makes more sense than thinking the engineer will get new weapons.

It would be balanced on engineers that DO NOT have a weapon kit. It could be grossly over-powered on 3 kit engineers (think of the combined CC of the rifle and P/S with bombs, grenades and tool kits).

You could easily make it such that upon slotting a non-healing kit in the utility bar you immediately lose the ability to utilize the 2cd weapon BUT you would retain the use of its sigils.

I bet you would see a fair bit more diversity in builds if you adopted such. We could use a few gadget or turret engineers in WvW particularly.

Thinking about this again, would it really be OP to give ALL engineers the ability to carry 2 weapon sets (of the same 3 weapons they have)?

The weakness they seem to acknowledge on Ready Up is our ability to counter CC or reset a fight. Having a rifle/pistol-shield or rifle/pistol-pistol or pistol-shield/pistol-pistol really is only adding a bit of utility in CC more than changing your damage rotations. Now most engineers would have a very mediocre gap creator (jump shot) and 2 blow backs (magnetic inversion and overcharged shot).

I may just be missing where this would be OP but looking at it again, giving the engineer the ability to carry 2 weapon sets given we have so few choices, really doesn’t seem to add an outrageous amount of utility.

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Sooooo..engies would be running around with full might stax? That would definitely be a problem… I didn’t think of that. No other classes do that in this meta /cough WarriorElementalistGuardian…. ahem sorry excuse me. Or have ridiculous condi clear /aaahhhchooo WARRIORClensingIre…. Geez….these friggin allergies.. Anyway I just wanted to say I see your point. Except for the fact that I really don’t.

I don’t HAVE to slot kits. If devs want engies to be forced into kits then fine..do like elementalists attunements and get rid of tool belt. That way I can still utilize all my utilities.

If the above suggestion is unpalatable, which it should be, then just give me my godkitten second weapon set if I don’t have any kits used.

If this is the new direction they want to take the game then it would be fine. Personally I’m against this rubbish though and expect nerfs to runes of strength at the least.

Cleansing ire isn’t that big of a problem imo. Just avoid the burst skills (eng has plenty of ways of doing this). It’s more zerk stance lasting too long and adding adrenaline for the longer duration in addition to that.

Bombsaway.7198:

Manuhell:

I agree that you should be able to get “on swap” sigils to work without the use of a kit.
I agree that allowing the engineer to take 2 of the following Rifle, P/P and then P/S makes more sense than thinking the engineer will get new weapons.

It would be balanced on engineers that DO NOT have a weapon kit. It could be grossly over-powered on 3 kit engineers (think of the combined CC of the rifle and P/S with bombs, grenades and tool kits).

You could easily make it such that upon slotting a non-healing kit in the utility bar you immediately lose the ability to utilize the 2cd weapon BUT you would retain the use of its sigils.

I bet you would see a fair bit more diversity in builds if you adopted such. We could use a few gadget or turret engineers in WvW particularly.

Thinking about this again, would it really be OP to give ALL engineers the ability to carry 2 weapon sets (of the same 3 weapons they have)?

The weakness they seem to acknowledge on Ready Up is our ability to counter CC or reset a fight. Having a rifle/pistol-shield or rifle/pistol-pistol or pistol-shield/pistol-pistol really is only adding a bit of utility in CC more than changing your damage rotations. Now most engineers would have a very mediocre gap creator (jump shot) and 2 blow backs (magnetic inversion and overcharged shot).

I may just be missing where this would be OP but looking at it again, giving the engineer the ability to carry 2 weapon sets given we have so few choices, really doesn’t seem to add an outrageous amount of utility.

They did say they intended to give every class access to every weapon…by the end of 2013, if I recall correctly. Don’t know what happened to that, but I guess since they only said they were working on it and didn’t give an actual release date, they can just keep on pretending they never said it at all.

Aberrant.6749:

If this is the new direction they want to take the game then it would be fine. Personally I’m against this rubbish though and expect nerfs to runes of strength at the least.

Cleansing ire isn’t that big of a problem imo. Just avoid the burst skills (eng has plenty of ways of doing this). It’s more zerk stance lasting too long and adding adrenaline for the longer duration in addition to that.

Almost true. Just ask yourself why EVERY warrior you see in spvp has Longbow + x/x and traits Clensing Ire.

I don’t see a problem with strength runes as they are. That’s why boon removal/steals exist. I love boonstripping hambows and celestial Eles with my mesmer

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Aberrant.6749:

If this is the new direction they want to take the game then it would be fine. Personally I’m against this rubbish though and expect nerfs to runes of strength at the least.

Cleansing ire isn’t that big of a problem imo. Just avoid the burst skills (eng has plenty of ways of doing this). It’s more zerk stance lasting too long and adding adrenaline for the longer duration in addition to that.

Almost true. Just ask yourself why EVERY warrior you see in spvp has Longbow + x/x and traits Clensing Ire.

I don’t see a problem with strength runes as they are. That’s why boon removal/steals exist. I love boonstripping hambows and celestial Eles with my mesmer

The longbow is very strong, but with reduced zerk stance→ lower adrenaline→ less cleansing ire. Blinds work wonders against CI.

Boon removal is too limited for how much STR runes add dmg wise while allowing the player to remain a tank. If they wanted to increase boon stripping on some classes that have it already but are on bad traits/utilities, that would be fine with me.