Guild Wars 2

Engi/Ele have only 1 weapon slot with no option to weapon switch. All other classes have the option to weapon swap.

This gives Ele/Engi the option to use: Two, 1 Handed weapons or One, 2 Handed Weapon.
This gives others the option to use: Four, 1 Handed weapons or Two, 2 Handed Weapons.
Which Means: Ele/Engi = 2 Sigil Slots. Others = 4 Sigil Slots.

How does this disadvantage Ele/Engi? Passive Sigils. Stacking Sigils.
Lets take a Warrior. Lets say they run GS and sword/warhorn. The GS can have 2 offensive sigils such as Force and Fire, to provide maximum DPS, while the s/wh, used as utility and not DPS can carry the passive Bloodlust Sigil. This means their GS does full DPS, while not having to sacrifice the Fire damage for Bloodlust. Bloodlust isnt bad on their warhorn since they arent looking to do damage with it.

Lets take ele: Since we only have 2 spots. If we use bloodlust, that means we must sacrifice the useage of Force and/or Fire to accommodate Bloodlust. This means we dont have the DPS Potential of other classes due to the restriction.

Yes I know engi have kits, ele have attunment. Its not the point, re-read post. You cant socket sigils in utility slots.

Sooo whats the logic behind this?

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

You state it even self, that you know of these things at the end, so why can’t you just accept it, that the things, how they work currently are well made decisions made for the overall Game Balance based around the amount of Weapon/Utility Skills Classes have, where the Elementalist and Engineer are clearly from all Classes on Place 1 and 2
.
Elementalists and Engineers would simply be overpowered, if they would have the option of weapon swapping, what would basically double all of their Weapon Skills, especially with the Elementalist, which gets for each Weapon they can use in combat instantly 20 Weapon Skills (5 per Element)

With 2 Weapons at any given time, Elementalists could spam through whopping 40 Skills in less than a minute !!

It would be overpowered in combat for the engineer and the ele to have weapon swapping. Neither of these 2 classes need them at all. the engi has kits and the ele has attunments…something you state at the end, thats how it is by design for balance. if they could swap in combat…good god the crying that would take place when an ele blows through 40 skills.. now…out of combat weapon swapping would be nice,(and before anybody says it would be overpowered, i already do it with my ele by having my inventory open)

i think u 2 didnt read it right..its not about haveing weapon swap…its about not having the chance to stack up bloodlust and then haveing 2 other sigils on the weapon u use the most. i agree with JJ….its annoying not to have the chance..but getting 3 sigils would also be unfair :/ to solve this problem is i think nearly impossible….

moony.5780:

i think u 2 didnt read it right..its not about haveing weapon swap…its about not having the chance to stack up bloodlust and then haveing 2 other sigils on the weapon u use the most. i agree with JJ….its annoying not to have the chance..but getting 3 sigils would also be unfair :/ to solve this problem is i think nearly impossible….

without weapon swapping you are correct it is impossible.

And in combat weapon swapping would definitely be OP.

Out of combat weapon swapping would be nice since other classes can keep two weapon sets out of their inventory space. And for fairness it should cause loss of stacks from any stacking sigils on them. So it would in effect just be a storage feature outside of the inventory.

Sigils that activiate on weapon swap I know activate on attunement switch for elementalists. I don’t know what they activate with on engineers, but they do on some aspect of them, possibly kit switching.

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

Everyone said the same thing about sigils with two-handed weapons. Wasn’t true then either. The developers have not stated ANYWHERE at ANYTIME that elementalists and engineers have two sigils as a drawback for their extra skills.

What they have stated is that both classes are balanced by each skill doing less, being more situational, and having less damage/utility per skill; and in the case of the elementalist, having about 20% higher cooldowns and the games only global cooldown. Every single design problem with the engineer and elementalist is not inherently justified by their extra skills.

The entire design of both classes lends itself to balancing out their extra skills, or it’s supposed to, as, if I may be frank, that hasn’t been true since launch. Elementalists have a whopping three builds (sort of, really two variations on the same arcane/water build and then fresh air), which is the most they’ve had since launch. Engineers really only have a handful of builds, spoon fed to them by the developers pumping a ridiculous amount of defensive power in to the engineers trait trees. It looks like they have more, because of all their trait paths, but then you look at their skill and stat selection, and they vary between the same two or three choices on every ‘build’.

Maybe if engineers and elementalist got four sigils per build (extra weapon swap or not), it might help open up builds for two of the most build-starved classes in the game.

@conncept:

Don’t missunderstand me please, personally I would have no problems with it, if Anet would give Elementalists and Engineers a Weapon Swap Function too.
I woudl have only problems with it, if they just simply would add it to them without any other proper balancing changes, that this addition would require, so that those Classes say also balanced.

You say that the amount of Weapon Skills wouldn’t be a big reason why those Classes have no Weapon Swap fuction.
I see that different, its a big reason, because as said, if Anet would just simply add only the function, then we would instantly see Eles spamming through 40 skills in less then a minute. This would be a desastrous change which would ruin the whole game.

However, if they would add the Weapon Swap and also would change MASSIVELY the Recharge Times of the Attunements and add to the Attunement Change also a significant Change Time that the Attunement Change needs, so that players MUST THINK MORE TACTICALLY, when they want to change their Elements, then this would lead to the important point that Elementalists would be able to spam through their 40 skills in such a short time.

In my opinion, Elementalists already can now change way too fast and too often within a specific set of tiem through their Elements, to the point, that players have not really to think about tactically, when they should change their Elements, because they seem to be always at the right moment to be there to be activated, when the Ele player needs it to keep on spammign through their Skilsl in an unendless cycle (unless you chill the Ele, which is an Ele’s bane, if you chill them in the right moment with that you can easily outplay them, if they cant quickly get rid of it, so its best to cover the chill as good as possible with other conditions or bring the chill, when the Ele wasted its removal first for other conditions)

So to come back to my point.
Give Eles for example a Weapon Swap that can be used in combat and as a counter balance I would damand, that all ttunement Recharge Times need to be massively increased, that they would need to have the highest recharge time of all classes for the Weapon Swap without any trait options or so to reduce that

Or increase in general the recharge times also of the weapon skills, just do everything that will ensure to break the spam cycle speed of the Elementalist and I’d be fine with Eles gettign a Weapon Swap as long they don’t become able to spam through 40 skilsl in a minute … because you have to admit that, this would be the total overkill.

Orpheal.8263:

@conncept:

Don’t missunderstand me please, personally I would have no problems with it, if Anet would give Elementalists and Engineers a Weapon Swap Function too.
I woudl have only problems with it, if they just simply would add it to them without any other proper balancing changes, that this addition would require, so that those Classes say also balanced.

You say that the amount of Weapon Skills wouldn’t be a big reason why those Classes have no Weapon Swap fuction.
I see that different, its a big reason, because as said, if Anet would just simply add only the function, then we would instantly see Eles spamming through 40 skills in less then a minute. This would be a desastrous change which would ruin the whole game.

However, if they would add the Weapon Swap and also would change MASSIVELY the Recharge Times of the Attunements and add to the Attunement Change also a significant Change Time that the Attunement Change needs, so that players MUST THINK MORE TACTICALLY, when they want to change their Elements, then this would lead to the important point that Elementalists would be able to spam through their 40 skills in such a short time.

In my opinion, Elementalists already can now change way too fast and too often within a specific set of tiem through their Elements, to the point, that players have not really to think about tactically, when they should change their Elements, because they seem to be always at the right moment to be there to be activated, when the Ele player needs it to keep on spammign through their Skilsl in an unendless cycle (unless you chill the Ele, which is an Ele’s bane, if you chill them in the right moment with that you can easily outplay them, if they cant quickly get rid of it, so its best to cover the chill as good as possible with other conditions or bring the chill, when the Ele wasted its removal first for other conditions)

So to come back to my point.
Give Eles for example a Weapon Swap that can be used in combat and as a counter balance I would damand, that all ttunement Recharge Times need to be massively increased, that they would need to have the highest recharge time of all classes for the Weapon Swap without any trait options or so to reduce that

Or increase in general the recharge times also of the weapon skills, just do everything that will ensure to break the spam cycle speed of the Elementalist and I’d be fine with Eles gettign a Weapon Swap as long they don’t become able to spam through 40 skilsl in a minute … because you have to admit that, this would be the total overkill.

I’d just make the weapon swap cool down ridiculously long . Don’t need to force players to have to use two weapon sets. Especially before level 7. Unless you’d be fine with eles being able to weapon swap at level one.

But I as an ele would be happy with an out of combat weapon swap. Simply so that I have the same number of weapons sets not in my inventory as a warrior does.

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

With 2 Weapons at any given time, Elementalists could spam through whopping 40 Skills in less than a minute !!

Engineers however cannot. Gadgets and Turrets weakness aside, kits might do as much base damage as many of the legendaries however, they do not have their own sigil slots. This is an imbalance all by itself because it means we have to contend with the same two systems of damage, switch outside of combat (which is rare even in PVE) and then do the same thing over again. Right now for example, I do not have access on my Engi to the torment/frailty sigils on my rifle because I’m using my two pistols. This causes a suction of balance in that I cannot switch while in combat while other classes can.

I suppose you’ll be telling us all that traits are perfectly balanced as well even tho I can cite to you multiple points in all three scout (adventurer) classes where Rangers and Thieves get better burst options than Engineers do.

You really need to look at it objectively. There’s alot missing.

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——→ Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

moony.5780:

i think u 2 didnt read it right..its not about haveing weapon swap…its about not having the chance to stack up bloodlust and then haveing 2 other sigils on the weapon u use the most. i agree with JJ….its annoying not to have the chance..but getting 3 sigils would also be unfair :/ to solve this problem is i think nearly impossible….

Unless elementalists were changed significantly lately, They can swap attunements, and the game treats it like a weapon swap.

So if you have " + 2 Might on weapon swap" On your staff for example…or even on one of your daggers…. when you swap attunements you will get + 2 might. Each time you switch attunements.

In other words as far as elementalists are concerned, this is an l2p issue.

Is there a balance issue if Elementalists have the option to pick two weapon sets and designate which of them is used with each attunement? So if you equip daggers and staff, you could designate staff for water and fire and daggers for lightning and earth. So you’d still change attunements, but sometimes that would include a weapon swap. If it is a balance issue, is it an insurmountable balance issue?

Thelgar.7214:

Is there a balance issue if Elementalists have the option to pick two weapon sets and designate which of them is used with each attunement? So if you equip daggers and staff, you could designate staff for water and fire and daggers for lightning and earth. So you’d still change attunements, but sometimes that would include a weapon swap. If it is a balance issue, is it an insurmountable balance issue?

I love that idea, and something similar could be done for Engineer kits. However, that would require some hard work on ANet’s part, and I honestly don’t see them being willing to bother with it.

As for the main topic of the thread, it seems some people are missing the main problem the OP is talking about. So, think about it like this:

You have a warrior running Greatsword/Greatsword. On one, they have a Sigil of Bloodlust. On the other, they have two other Sigils. They can use the first Greatsword to build stacks of Bloodlust, and then change to the other Greatsword and get the benefits of both of those Sigils, without losing the stacks of Bloodlust. All classes can do this kind of trick, except for Elementalist and Engineers. Is this an intended imbalance, and if not how can it be fixed?

Nerelith.7360:

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.

As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.

The game treats switching attunements (for Elementalist) and swapping to/from Kits (as an Engineer) as weapon swapping. Thus sigils that only activate on weapon swapping still work for them, unless you never switch attunements or never use kits.

Aiuris.9861:

Nerelith.7360:

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.

As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.

The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.

if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.

Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.

Just like everyone else.

I don’t mind really, both classes are strong and balanced around the way they are.

But if it was added I suppose something like this would do. Although I would be really annoyed if I swapped sigils by pressing the weaponswap while using a kit, so I’d prefer if it was only usable while using P/x or Rifle, and a small cooldown on it everytime when leaving a kit.

Nerelith.7360:

Aiuris.9861:

Nerelith.7360:

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.

As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.

The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.

if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.

Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.

Just like everyone else.

All on swap sigils have an internal 9 second cd. Aside from traited warriors weapon swap is 10 seconds. Ele and engi can swap far more frequently than any other class can, but that doesn’t mean that they can proc the on swap sigil faster than any other class, unless they swap right after that 9 second (only saving them ~1 second)

However the point the OP was making is that other classes have more options to place in their offhand set than engineers and eles can get access to. They are not saying they need a weapon swap so much as saying they need access to a second set of sigils.

Since stacking sigils now require the weapon with that sigil to remain on the character (even if its in an offset) ele and engi need to sacrifice one of their offensive or even defensive sigils to allow access to a stacking sigil while other classes just swap to that offset, kill a few guys, then switch back.

Personally as for the on swap sigils I don’t really care so much about. Its the stacking sigils and the very major choice ele and engi players need to make. To use a stacking sigil and lose any extra added on hit/crit effect, static buff (5% dmg/7%crit chance), on swap – Or not use the stacking buff and lose out on a large chunk of {insert stat/effect here}.

DiazKincade.2891:

Nerelith.7360:

Aiuris.9861:

Nerelith.7360:

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.

As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.

The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.

if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.

Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.

Just like everyone else.

All on swap sigils have an internal 9 second cd. Aside from traited warriors weapon swap is 10 seconds. Ele and engi can swap far more frequently than any other class can, but that doesn’t mean that they can proc the on swap sigil faster than any other class, unless they swap right after that 9 second (only saving them ~1 second)

However the point the OP was making is that other classes have more options to place in their offhand set than engineers and eles can get access to. They are not saying they need a weapon swap so much as saying they need access to a second set of sigils.

Since stacking sigils now require the weapon with that sigil to remain on the character (even if its in an offset) ele and engi need to sacrifice one of their offensive or even defensive sigils to allow access to a stacking sigil while other classes just swap to that offset, kill a few guys, then switch back.

Personally as for the on swap sigils I don’t really care so much about. Its the stacking sigils and the very major choice ele and engi players need to make. To use a stacking sigil and lose any extra added on hit/crit effect, static buff (5% dmg/7%crit chance), on swap – Or not use the stacking buff and lose out on a large chunk of {insert stat/effect here}.

You know… you have a good Point there. I never thought about it that way. Any other class since they have a second weapon, they have a second set of sigils. 2 More sigils.

The only thing I can think of is that with 4 attunements, and with all the engineer kits, the devs Might say that tthey have access to many more skills. Elementalists get 20 instead of 10, Not counting heal, 3 utilities + 1 elite.

but I do see that Only having 2 sigils would be an issue. But curious….

How unbalanced woiuld it be for elementalists to get 4 attunements, 2 weapon sets per 4 attunements, and 4 sigils instead of 2?

Nerelith.7360:

DiazKincade.2891:

Nerelith.7360:

Aiuris.9861:

Nerelith.7360:

speaking only about Elementalists, since it is the only class of the two mentioned. The OP needs to L2P. Fact is, when you swap attunements the game engine treats it as a weapon switch.

Example, equip any sigil that procs on a weapon swap, and swap attunements, and the sigil will procc. What this means is, that not only do Elementalists NOT have a disadvantage with these sigils, they actually have an advantage.

If an elementalists swaps attunements a few times per fight…Earth——>Water——-> Fire….. rinse/repeat, that’s proccing quite a Bit.

You’re talking about L2P when you don’t seem to know how to play and are completely missing the OP’s point. There’s absolutely no advantage. While you can swap attunements quite fast, and while it does count as a weapon swap, the sigil still has a 9sec CD. Which means if you swap all 4 attunements as fast as possible without using any skills, you only proc the sigil once because guess what? It went on CD after your first swap. The 9sec CD means all classes will proc around the same time as long as they swap weapons when they are allowed to.

As for the OP’s point, eles and engies only have 2 sigils affecting them at any given time. All other classes can have up to 4 (bloodlust being passive, weapon swap effects lasting long enough to use on the next weapon swap). This means eles and engies are the only classes that need to sacrifice straight DPS sigils if they intend to use bloodlust/weapon swap sigils.

The 9 second cooldown on swap. is this specific to Elementalists and Engineers? If so you have a point.

if it applies to everyone, then I guess you don’t.

Here’a a thought, to get the Most out of your " On swap " sigils…do what others do… do NOT swap on the 7th’s second of the cooldown… wait a couple seconds.

Just like everyone else.

All on swap sigils have an internal 9 second cd. Aside from traited warriors weapon swap is 10 seconds. Ele and engi can swap far more frequently than any other class can, but that doesn’t mean that they can proc the on swap sigil faster than any other class, unless they swap right after that 9 second (only saving them ~1 second)

However the point the OP was making is that other classes have more options to place in their offhand set than engineers and eles can get access to. They are not saying they need a weapon swap so much as saying they need access to a second set of sigils.

Since stacking sigils now require the weapon with that sigil to remain on the character (even if its in an offset) ele and engi need to sacrifice one of their offensive or even defensive sigils to allow access to a stacking sigil while other classes just swap to that offset, kill a few guys, then switch back.

Personally as for the on swap sigils I don’t really care so much about. Its the stacking sigils and the very major choice ele and engi players need to make. To use a stacking sigil and lose any extra added on hit/crit effect, static buff (5% dmg/7%crit chance), on swap – Or not use the stacking buff and lose out on a large chunk of {insert stat/effect here}.

You know… you have a good Point there. I never thought about it that way. Any other class since they have a second weapon, they have a second set of sigils. 2 More sigils.

The only thing I can think of is that with 4 attunements, and with all the engineer kits, the devs Might say that tthey have access to many more skills. Elementalists get 20 instead of 10, Not counting heal, 3 utilities + 1 elite.

but I do see that Only having 2 sigils would be an issue. But curious….

How unbalanced woiuld it be for elementalists to get 4 attunements, 2 weapon sets per 4 attunements, and 4 sigils instead of 2?

There was a thread floating about somewhere that posed a solution to this. Ele (and theoretically engi but the thread was about ele I believe) could have 2 weapon sets that they cannot switch to while in combat. They can only swap weapons outside of combat. This way they don’t change the effect they have in combat so easily. They would need to drop combat to switch (Which pro players claim to do already through inventory swapping).

Just give us OUT OF COMBAT weapon swap and problem solved.

People that claim eles got 20 skills instead of 10 they are living on their world, most skills are not even worth it, if u play staff ele u just camp fire for DPS cause every other attunement doesn’t provide any, so thats 5 skills. The only weapons that can use more than 2 attunements effectivily are D/D and thats about it.

Vissarion.6509:

Just give us OUT OF COMBAT weapon swap and problem solved.

People that claim eles got 20 skills instead of 10 they are living on their world, most skills are not even worth it, if u play staff ele u just camp fire for DPS cause every other attunement doesn’t provide any, so thats 5 skills. The only weapons that can use more than 2 attunements effectivily are D/D and thats about it.

If you aren’t getting dps out of anything but fire attunement you really need to explore different combinations and practice more. Everything on staff is useful and powerful if you know when to use it.

And what if eles were just able to have 3 sigils on their weapon set instead of 2? That way you could have your normal two plus your stacking sigil.

The ele really needs a second weapon set with ooc-switching.
Aside from the sigils, it’s always annoying to open the hero-window, drag the weapons over to their respective slot and closing the window again, while standing at the sides in ooc, hoping that no one attacks you.
Just pressing one button to do that ooc would be far more convenient.

Speaking to the elementalist.

They have “On Swaps” that process through attunement switching. This is a significant advantage and more then makes up for the fact they can not use as many sigils.

These attunement switches are not tied to the 9 second internal cooldown. Fresh Air as example can see the on swap proc to Air several times over.

They can gain speed, heal in an area , cripple and damage foes strike opponents with a lightning strike , hit them with fire when attuning to fire.

This without having to use a sigil for that same effect.

More sigil access is not warranted. Warriors and Rangers have some like trait ability but they limited when compared to the Ele occcuring in only one trait line rather then all of them. Again warrior with “fast hands” is at advantage over Ranger here.

Vissarion.6509:

Just give us OUT OF COMBAT weapon swap and problem solved.

People that claim eles got 20 skills instead of 10 they are living on their world, most skills are not even worth it, if u play staff ele u just camp fire for DPS cause every other attunement doesn’t provide any, so thats 5 skills. The only weapons that can use more than 2 attunements effectivily are D/D and thats about it.

Staff has a lot of utility through the use of combo fields and through certain utilities you can add in blast finishers, thus allowing you to spam area might, swiftness, and healing with ease. I typically run staff in a zerg to provide all this to my allies while at the same time throwing out some significant damage.

babazhook.6805:

Speaking to the elementalist.

They have “On Swaps” that process through attunement switching. This is a significant advantage and more then makes up for the fact they can not use as many sigils.

These attunement switches are not tied to the 9 second internal cooldown. Fresh Air as example can see the on swap proc to Air several times over.

They can gain speed, heal in an area , cripple and damage foes strike opponents with a lightning strike , hit them with fire when attuning to fire.

This without having to use a sigil for that same effect.

More sigil access is not warranted. Warriors and Rangers have some like trait ability but they limited when compared to the Ele occcuring in only one trait line rather then all of them. Again warrior with “fast hands” is at advantage over Ranger here.

This does not apply to sigils. Sigils are the ones with the built in 9 sec cd, weapon swap is 10 seconds (It shows only 9 but that is because of the way the game handles milliseconds). Ele are not at an advantage for sigils. Not all ele are traited to use all of those on swap at the same time. On top of that ele can’t trait for a specific weapon to reduce the cd on their skills, for this they trait per attunement. The trait set up you are talking about significantly lowers their over all effectiveness as you would be missing a lot of major traits that boost the effectiveness of other skills, such as your utilities and even some survival skills.

The point is compared to other classes Ele and Engi both are limited in their ability to chose passive vrs active sigils when gearing their weapons. They have to make a significant choice that other classes don’t need to. Passive (Stacking/Static 5%dmg-7%crit chance) sigil for that boost to offensive/defensive stats, or Active (On swap/On Hit/On Crit) sigil for that potential burst. They can have one of each, or 2 Actives/Passives(Statics), but not all 3(Stacking specifically) like every other class can.

The simplest solution would be to give them a second set of weapons and just LOCK weapon swap while in combat. This would give them access to 4 sigils, like everyone else, without changing their combat effectiveness to significantly while in combat. This would also alleviate a lot of the stress these players feel when trying to inventory weapon swap, which btw is something the pro players say they already do. I know I would like to swap to S/D from staff when we are running from point to point on my ele and then swap back at the point without having to deal with the inventory to do so.

The amount of attunements or kits doesn’t matter unless your traited and geared properly for them to fit the build. As we all know (at least in WvW and PvP), it’s better to excel in something rather than average at everything.

I honestly don’t think engineers and elementalists are going to swap out gear and re-trait every time they come across another player or zerg just to make full beneficial use out of weapon swapping where it’d be considered OP. It just takes too much work and all it does is takes the enjoyment out of theory crafting for builds.

Rather than giving them a weapon swap option, why not make it so the weapon has to be in use to keep the stacks.. aka, you swap, you lose the stacks. Nothing is stopping people from putting a second stat stacking sigil on their other weapon.

DeadlySynz.3471:

The amount of attunements or kits doesn’t matter unless your traited and geared properly for them to fit the build. As we all know (at least in WvW and PvP), it’s better to excel in something rather than average at everything.

I honestly don’t think engineers and elementalists are going to swap out gear and re-trait every time they come across another player or zerg just to make full beneficial use out of weapon swapping where it’d be considered OP. It just takes too much work and all it does is takes the enjoyment out of theory crafting for builds.

Rather than giving them a weapon swap option, why not make it so the weapon has to be in use to keep the stacks.. aka, you swap, you lose the stacks. Nothing is stopping people from putting a second stat stacking sigil on their other weapon.

This is not an ideal change. This would effectively limit everyone to using a mostly useless sigil (after the stacks are gained) to amplify their damage. A lot of people were already annoyed with the whole “have to keep sigil equipped” , doing this would just cause even more outrage. It also wouldn’t serve a purpose other than to nerf everyone. The changes I proposed wouldn’t effect the majority of players, and would actually aid two classes that have been crying for something beneficial, such as a second weapon set, for a very long time.

It would not be difficult to give the ele and engi a second weapon set and then lock weapon swap while in combat. This alone would even the field and not nerf the majority of players.

I think Sigils (and Runes) are unfair in general, tbh. They are simply too strong. They constitute too large a part of a character’s overall flexibility, specialization or setup, diminishing class strengths and weaknesses in the process.

Carighan.6758:

I think Sigils (and Runes) are unfair in general, tbh. They are simply too strong. They constitute too large a part of a character’s overall flexibility, specialization or setup, diminishing class strengths and weaknesses in the process.

I don’t think they diminish class strengths or weaknesses at all. They amplify them. I don’t know about you but I have often run rune-less armor to get a feel for the general play style that armor gives (and I haven’t decided on which rune set to go with). You can clearly see a difference when going from no runes, to full runes. The game is designed around having the runes. Not having them makes the game a little more difficult but not by much. Runes give the player more options than just “Zerker or Soldier or Clerics” etc. Zerker with Scholars for instance means the player has to play with the intention of never getting hit (From anything, including auto attacks), while a Soldier with Dolyaks can actually take a few hits and shrug them off, saving his dodge rolls for the big attacks. The runes are not “to strong”. They are simply balanced for the game play the game presents us with. And even then we have people complaining about the game being to difficult.

Sigils have even less of an effect than you might think as a lot of them cover generals. “Increased burst” Though the on hit/crit sigils. “Increased Effectiveness” through statics and stacking. “Support” through on swaps. These do not effect build choices so much (aside from broad terms such as dps, condi, or anchor). These are also easily swapped out for other alternate weapons. You wouldn’t run a zerker dagger with water would you? Or a clerics with earth? No each stat has its optimal choices. Going against those optimals is possible, but not recommended for efficiency. That goes for both armor and weapons, runes and sigils.

This game prides itself on the options available to its player base.

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

With 2 Weapons at any given time, Elementalists could spam through whopping 40 Skills in less than a minute !!

I’m so tired of this argument. Poeple will propably never understand that this is more of a drawback than a benefit.

• eles have no 40 spells in total
  • autohits are so weak that we have to avoid them at all costs (made points in arcana mandatory – thank you Anet for adressing at least this point in one of your patches )
  • each weapon set has spells that are utterly useless
  • there are also many redundant spells that do basically the same and could therfore be merged into one spell with lower CD
• eles lack F1 spells which are very strong, versitale and game-changing on all other classes
• 5th traitline boosts F-spells which (on ele) is basically just a faster weapon-switch. While other classes get a direct reduction of the CD of their key-abilities we only get a higher accessability to our standard-spells which other classes have anyways due to standard 9s CD.
• > eles have higher “weapon-swap-CD” meaning that they can’t acess the spells they need as fast as other classes
• the potential of our class is divided into 40 spells compared to 20 on other classes making each spell weaker in comparison, yet most of our spells have higher CDs.
• eles have many traits that only boost one element instead of one weapon = boost for only 1/4 of the spells and not 1/2 like on other classes
• lack of weapon-swap means no adaption to ranged or melee / offensive or defensive combat (this is an aditional problem to low base-defenses which we have to compensate with defensive builds and utilities)
• builds that specifically focus on one aspect (healing for example) make many spells that don’t answer the purpose of the build weak and useless. This may be a general problem, however other classes can handle this issue by chosing a second weapon-set that also fits the build.
• last but not least the issue which is discussed in this thread: less sigils

I don’t demand an infight weapon-swap for eles … however, people should consider these points when talking about “OP 40 spells” …

Gorni.1764:

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

With 2 Weapons at any given time, Elementalists could spam through whopping 40 Skills in less than a minute !!

I’m so tired of this argument. Poeple will propably never understand that this is more of a drawback than a benefit.

• eles have no 40 spells in total
  • autohits are so weak that we have to avoid them at all costs (made points in arcana mandatory – thank you Anet for adressing at least this point in one of your patches )
  • each weapon set has spells that are utterly useless
  • there are also many redundant spells that do basically the same and could therfore be merged into one spell with lower CD
• eles lack F1 spells which are very strong, versitale and game-changing on all other classes
• 5th traitline boosts F-spells which (on ele) is basically just a faster weapon-switch. While other classes get a direct reduction of the CD of their key-abilities we only get a higher accessability to our standard-spells which other classes have anyways due to standard 9s CD.
• > eles have higher “weapon-swap-CD” meaning that they can’t acess the spells they need as fast as other classes
• the potential of our class is divided into 40 spells compared to 20 on other classes making each spell weaker in comparison, yet most of our spells have higher CDs.
• eles have many traits that only boost one element instead of one weapon = boost for only 1/4 of the spells and not 1/2 like on other classes
• lack of weapon-swap means no adaption to ranged or melee / offensive or defensive combat (this is an aditional problem to low base-defenses which we have to compensate with defensive builds and utilities)
• builds that specifically focus on one aspect (healing for example) make many spells that don’t answer the purpose of the build weak and useless. This may be a general problem, however other classes can handle this issue by chosing a second weapon-set that also fits the build.
• last but not least the issue which is discussed in this thread: less sigils

I don’t demand an infight weapon-swap for eles … however, people should consider these points when talking about “OP 40 spells” …

All the skills have a use. Just not in every role. Alot of their skills are situational. And the ones that are “similar” mean they can hit you with the “same” attack several times. (like their underwater lift/drown spam)

>>It would not be difficult to give the ele and engi a second weapon set and then lock weapon swap while in combat. This alone would even the field and not nerf the majority of players.

I do not understand the point of this.

You can carry another set with you. It not all that cumbersome.I do it on me ele. My Thief with do it when he needs his shortbow. It takes a few seconds.

Eng/Ele can proc their on swap more sigils more frequently which helps make up for the lack of a 2nd set. An argument could also be made that with more skills you have more ways of continually hitting your target which would proc the on crit/hit sigils more. You don’t get as much variety, but you do get more frequency. Seems fine to me.

babazhook.6805:

>>It would not be difficult to give the ele and engi a second weapon set and then lock weapon swap while in combat. This alone would even the field and not nerf the majority of players.

I do not understand the point of this.

You can carry another set with you. It not all that cumbersome.I do it on me ele. My Thief with do it when he needs his shortbow. It takes a few seconds.

And why should they use then weaponswap signets, if they can’t switch their weapons in combat?

Conncept.7638:

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

Everyone said the same thing about sigils with two-handed weapons. Wasn’t true then either. The developers have not stated ANYWHERE at ANYTIME that elementalists and engineers have two sigils as a drawback for their extra skills.

What they have stated is that both classes are balanced by each skill doing less, being more situational, and having less damage/utility per skill; and in the case of the elementalist, having about 20% higher cooldowns and the games only global cooldown. Every single design problem with the engineer and elementalist is not inherently justified by their extra skills.

The entire design of both classes lends itself to balancing out their extra skills, or it’s supposed to, as, if I may be frank, that hasn’t been true since launch. Elementalists have a whopping three builds (sort of, really two variations on the same arcane/water build and then fresh air), which is the most they’ve had since launch. Engineers really only have a handful of builds, spoon fed to them by the developers pumping a ridiculous amount of defensive power in to the engineers trait trees. It looks like they have more, because of all their trait paths, but then you look at their skill and stat selection, and they vary between the same two or three choices on every ‘build’.

Maybe if engineers and elementalist got four sigils per build (extra weapon swap or not), it might help open up builds for two of the most build-starved classes in the game.

“having about 20% higher cooldowns and the games only global cooldown. "

If you’re a warrior and run with 2 axes or swords or maces as your main and swap, the burst skill between cooldown remains the same. If you’re running 2 different weapons then when you swap they both act off different independent cooldown timers. This is too prevent a player using burst skill after burst after burst in sucession of the same type.

Please explore all professions thoroughly before making blanket statements that aren’t true. Elementalist is not the only profession that is subject to universal cooldowns. It is for the same reason as warrior burst weapons sharing a universal cooldown if they are weapons of the same type.

Both ele and engi have;
The most weapon skills in game.
Both have been described as a-net as , “Kings of versatility”
Both either pulls/push/knockdowns or all of the above.
Both have reflects.
Both blocks.
Both have universal immunity.
Both have the ability to stack multiple boons quickly and maintain them.
One has stealth.
Both have stunning team support
Both have access to 3rd party AI pets.

…but you feel they are weak because you don’t get additional sigils..wow. Just wow.

Hey, i main ele. WE do NOT need sigil changes.. We gain the “on swap” sigil bonuses when we swap attunements. (Atleast it works for sigil of battle). And all other siglils are basicly worthless anyhow. If you’re going to suggest changes to a class OP can you make it something non kitten-ed?

Ele makes up for lack of weapons in diversity within the sets we have.

OH and the cooldowns are fine, I never sit in wvw/Fractals thinking “darnit if only the cd on this skill was 20 seconds lower. OH woe is me”
I seriously don’t know what some of you are thinking.. lol

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Both ele and engi have;
The most weapon skills in game.
Both have been described as a-net as , “Kings of versatility”
Both either pulls/push/knockdowns or all of the above.
Both have reflects.
Both blocks.
Both have universal immunity.
Both have the ability to stack multiple boons quickly and maintain them.
One has stealth.
Both have stunning team support
Both have access to 3rd party AI pets.

…but you feel they are weak because you don’t get additional sigils..wow. Just wow.

taken aside that some of your points are a joke from an ele-perspective (especially the last one made me giggle) what do these things have to do with sigils? Other classes have stuff too that eles or engis can’t do.
Btw: for beeing the kings of versatility we have surprisingly few viable builds?!

The fact that eles and engis can’t have two sigil-sets has nothing to do with balance – only with general design(-flaws?) which is the reason why people think it’s unfair. And I somehow agree with them. Warriors for example benefit as much from sigils as eles/engis do if not even more. They are certainly OP atm yet, they get 4 sigils? Doesn’t make sense in terms of balance. So your argument or whatever you wanted to state with your list is invalid.

@VaaCrow: this is a PvP-Issue. I think noone here cares about PvE where the most effective builds for eles are GC-Staff or LH where you don’t swap attunements anyway. And your statement "And all other siglils are basicly worthless anyhow. " led me to the conclusion that you’ve never played PvP yet …

Aberrant.6749:

Eng/Ele can proc their on swap more sigils more frequently

uhm, no? The ICD is the same for all classes?

Aberrant.6749:

An argument could also be made that with more skills you have more ways of continually hitting your target which would proc the on crit/hit sigils more. You don’t get as much variety, but you do get more frequency. Seems fine to me.

Eles may have more spells but they also have higher CDs so again: no. And there are always autohits (which are usually much stronger on other classes) that can procc sigills. So again: nope.

babazhook.6805:

>>It would not be difficult to give the ele and engi a second weapon set and then lock weapon swap while in combat. This alone would even the field and not nerf the majority of players.

I do not understand the point of this.

You can carry another set with you. It not all that cumbersome.I do it on me ele. My Thief with do it when he needs his shortbow. It takes a few seconds.

This wasn’t a problem before the stacking sigil change. Before you would swap to a weapon with stacking, get your stacks, then swap that weapon out for other weapons with a more optimal, active effect sigil in place. After the change to the way the stacking sigil works this destroys your “Just bring the weapon in your bag” concept because that weapon does nothing in your bag now. As for being cumbersome, I carry around at least 2 full sets of gear on all my characters, with accessories. That’s 2 full 15 slot bags when you add in weapons. That’s not cumbersome. Having to KEEP a weapon with a near useless sigil equipped in the ACTIVE slot that is only providing a passive buff that other classes can swap out is cumbersome. It lowers over all damage output/sustainability. If you would have read the posts I made you would have seen this statement more clearly.

As for the reason locking weapon swap in combat, Ele and Engi can already get on swap sigil activation by changing atunements/kits. The weapon swap was just an easier method than trying to create a new UI element or modify existing weapons just for two classes. As numerous people have stated they already have “technically” the largest number of weapon skills any class can get, even if they don’t fully use them, so having a swap in combat wouldn’t be necessary. (BTW not all engineers run full kits, so your argument is not 100% accurate to all those claiming engineers have more weapon skills than other classes. On top of that most engineer #1 skills are on the “never bother” list as they are horribad.)

Gorni.1764:

Aberrant.6749:

Eng/Ele can proc their on swap more sigils more frequently

uhm, no? The ICD is the same for all classes?

9s icd vs 10s to swap with swap icd, plus other classes tend to not swap every chance… eng/ele on the other hand do it constantly. Yup.

Gorni.1764:

Eles may have more spells but they also have higher CDs so again: no. And there are always autohits (which are usually much stronger on other classes) that can procc sigills. So again: nope.

You didn’t read what I said clearly… more varied types of attacks give you more ways to hit the target. Being that flexible translates into being able to hit your target more often in more situations. You’re not going to be able to just auto your target 24/7 (unless you just play PvE and in that case lol it’s so easy who even cares).

It’s all fine as is.

Aberrant.6749:

9s icd vs 10s to swap with swap icd, plus other classes tend to not swap every chance… eng/ele on the other hand do it constantly. Yup.

Wow, so we’re saving 1 out of 10 sec? Is that your argument? What if I tell you it’s unreasonable to count the 9sec, and when we are constantly swapping attunements, we are dealing with 10-13sec CD for each attunement, and after a few seconds of battle they are all on CD and being swapped randomly, giving us an actual loss of couple of seconds because we swap when we need, not when the 9sec are up?

Aberrant.6749:

You didn’t read what I said clearly… more varied types of attacks give you more ways to hit the target. Being that flexible translates into being able to hit your target more often in more situations. You’re not going to be able to just auto your target 24/7 (unless you just play PvE and in that case lol it’s so easy who even cares).

It’s all fine as is.

So if you don’t have useful skills to use, you just sit idle until they are off CD, you don’t auto-attack? Auto-attack is just as fast as some skills, and faster than other skills(because of channeling time). We are not triggering on crit/attack sigils faster. If anything, we are doing it slower because we are wasting time channeling skills. I’m not even going to get on that 100 blades which can boost a warrior to 25might (from crits) and has almost no CD at all.

+1 for Aiuris
Furthermore procc-sigils are only a small fraction of the sigils available. It would be absurd to justify the lack of sigils on ele/engis by that…

and as I stated before: I can live with having fewer sigils as an ele, but some of the arguments I had to read here in this thread are beyond ridiculousness

Simple to keep this relatively balanced.

The engineer and elementalist should be allowed to have a “shadow” weapon which allows you to benefit from the additional sigils. Changing attunement should count as swapping weapons. Using a kit does for an engineer.

It should not allow for additional weapon skills (it is just a placeholder for sigils) except in the odd instance that an engineer runs without any kit in his/her utility bar. That might open up 3-5% of the total engineer population to a new set of specs.

In short, the game indeed is more balanced around weapon skills than it is around access to sigils which are increasingly important. I remind everyone, that the same issue existed between one handed and two handed weapon users and it was changed to keep everyone equal.

Why not giving them a shadow weapon that they can swap to on a 10 second cooldown (engineers need to do this while wielding a weapon due to practical reasons) which activates on swap effects but keeps the weapon the same? The swap replaces the swap on kits/attunements. Isn’t this truly balanced?

moony.5780:

i think u 2 didnt read it right..its not about haveing weapon swap…its about not having the chance to stack up bloodlust and then haveing 2 other sigils on the weapon u use the most. i agree with JJ….its annoying not to have the chance..but getting 3 sigils would also be unfair :/ to solve this problem is i think nearly impossible….

What I was rather expecting from the Feature Patch’s changes to sigils (and what I continue to hope for):

You only get the stacks you’ve built up while wielding a weapon with that sigil equipped.

Stacks wouldn’t be lost when a weapon was swapped out – they’d just become non-functional unless that sigil was also present on the other weaponset.

I’d still not expect more than one stack type to be usable at once, but making all players have to spend a sigil slot in order to access their stacks would really make things feel less unfair for Ele/Engi. Would also prevent folks from stacking up while underwater and not having any stack sigils at all on terrestrial weapons*.

If it’s regarded as very important to show that players have the stacks available to them but on their other weaponset, I guess the sigil stack buff icon could be crossed out or have a different colour while inactive?

*hm, can you stack with a terrestrial, then jump underwater to a weapon with the sigil, then swap out your terrestrial w/ sigil for one with, say, Fire, and still keep stacks?

Aiuris.9861:

Aberrant.6749:

9s icd vs 10s to swap with swap icd, plus other classes tend to not swap every chance… eng/ele on the other hand do it constantly. Yup.

Wow, so we’re saving 1 out of 10 sec? Is that your argument? What if I tell you it’s unreasonable to count the 9sec, and when we are constantly swapping attunements, we are dealing with 10-13sec CD for each attunement, and after a few seconds of battle they are all on CD and being swapped randomly, giving us an actual loss of couple of seconds because we swap when we need, not when the 9sec are up?

Read bold. Eng/ele are encouraged to swap constantly. Most other classes are not in many situations.

Aiuris.9861:

Aberrant.6749:

You didn’t read what I said clearly… more varied types of attacks give you more ways to hit the target. Being that flexible translates into being able to hit your target more often in more situations. You’re not going to be able to just auto your target 24/7 (unless you just play PvE and in that case lol it’s so easy who even cares).

It’s all fine as is.

So if you don’t have useful skills to use, you just sit idle until they are off CD, you don’t auto-attack? Auto-attack is just as fast as some skills, and faster than other skills(because of channeling time). We are not triggering on crit/attack sigils faster. If anything, we are doing it slower because we are wasting time channeling skills. I’m not even going to get on that 100 blades which can boost a warrior to 25might (from crits) and has almost no CD at all.

Ok so PvE only player confirmed then I take it? Ok then… who cares, PvE is very very easy as is anyways.

You guys are trying to fix something that isn’t broken.

Not being able to swap weapons and not being able to take advantage of a few of the sigils is a limitation of the Ele and Engi classes that is accounted for by the incredible utility of having access to DOUBLE the number of weaponskills as compared to every other class in the game.

I’ve been playing an Ele long enough to understand this.

TL;DR. Let’s put it this way: Classes have SO much more potential for imbalance than a measly sigil or two. And pure class potential aside, player skill makes a MUCH bigger difference than a few % in stat points. If I wanted eles or engis buffed, I would pick something more important and less difficult to change than stupid sigils.

Tiresias.6473:

You guys are trying to fix something that isn’t broken.

Not being able to swap weapons and not being able to take advantage of a few of the sigils is a limitation of the Ele and Engi classes that is accounted for by the incredible utility of having access to DOUBLE the number of weaponskills as compared to every other class in the game.

I’ve been playing an Ele long enough to understand this.

Since release of the game people keep justifiying every single nerf and drawback of eles with this (ridiculous) argument. They keep babbling about it because everyone says so and nobody can think about it on their own. It’s like the 10th time I’m reading that in this thread without ever hearing a reasonable different argument.

As someone said before, classes should be balanced by their spells and mechanics of their own – not by additional stuff like availability of gear, runes or sigils.

I’d actually like to hear an Anet-statement about this. They gave the second sigil slot to 2h weapons to make it more balanced in comparison to classes/builds that use 2 1h instead. In principle this is the same with eles/engis compared to the rest.
Like I said before this isn’t an intentional nerf to those two classes but instead it’s due to the fact that 2 additional sigil-slots are difficult to implement because of the 1-weaponset-design of those two classes, therefore a design-flaw.