Guild Wars 2

Needs a change. I was thinking of a concept like

Passive- Converts 400 life force to health per second(unless health bar is full) while stealing 400 health every 5 seconds from enemies(max 5 enemies) and converting it to life force.

Active- I didn’t get that far. I was thinking this would be like Warrior healing signet snf active would be moot.

My numbers are probably way off and either OP or UP but as a concept for an attrition based profession I thought this was a little bit of alrightness.

imho SoV should work like thieves SoM ,
I.E, you gain health when you attack rather than when you’re hit.
it could also deal a small amount of damage and be effected by Bloodthirst.

the active could increase the effectiveness of all life steal healing by a huge percentage for a short time meaning the 40ish heals you get from traits like Vampiric become something like 300ish heals.

@Epidemix it is an interesting concept and I think it can work, but you’ll need some serious number scaling (DS decays at a rate of 3.5% at base stats with this rate and you convert only 50% of the damage you could take to health).

@Liewec: a 800% increase! combine this with signet of locust and DS and you become OP. Full healing every 48 seconds.

Personally, I would keep the passive on hit, remove the ICD but insert a control mechanic. It would be either you have a 325 base heal and every hit above 325 damage will heal you, or you could say every hit will heal you the minimum of the damage and the calculted heal value, both have advantages and disadvantages.

The active I would keep the same but add that the necro heals 10~20% of the health if an ally removes it and that every 5 stacks the necro gains a single stack of 20 seconds might.

Really, the passive needs a change more than the active. The passive desperately needs either a removal of the ICD or have the ICD changed to be per-attacker instead of global ICD. Changing it from a basic heal to a siphon would also help the skill.

I agree with Drarnor that the passive needs the changes. I think, given the name of the skill the passive, should be a siphon.

I also think the passive like the active should be something aggressive and because of that the passive should simply be a life steal on hit without any icd. Something around 90 would be a good number (ofc the passive should be effected by bloodthirst).

And if then the siphon traits would work in DS (for example by combining it with bloodthirst, bumping bloodthirst to a master trait and making quickening thirst a adept trait) Siphon builds could maybe finally be viable…

Active: As well as healing and marking an opponent for life steal, gain a stack of might for each vampiric stack not consumed (might 20 sec).

I like the idea of having it take a portion of every incoming blow. That being said, it really needs to lose its ICD or it’s completely pointless.

The only thing Signet of Vampirism needs, is a change in skill-design philosophy. Skills should not simply be designed with the idea of “not-being overpowered”, they should also be designed with the idea of them being used…. like, at all.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The only thing Signet of Vampirism needs, is a change in skill-design philosophy. Skills should not simply be designed with the idea of “not-being overpowered”, they should also be designed with the idea of them being used…. like, at all.

Ohh in open pve i often see necros run SoV. So SoV clearly gets used. Sadly all those necros dont realize that CC would give them so much more in almost any situation…

Well, in PvE, you very rarely need to heal at all anyway, so the passive is all right there. It’s still somewhat decent against popular champions/legendaries, too.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The only thing Signet of Vampirism needs, is a change in skill-design philosophy. Skills should not simply be designed with the idea of “not-being overpowered”, they should also be designed with the idea of them being used…. like, at all.

Actually I think the better design would be to have all skills intentionally overpowered. Just in different ways.

So that your problem is not “which of my heals is useful” or “which of heals is ideal in this situation” but “I got 5 overpowered heals, but kitten , I can only pick 1… ARGH!”.

we could make the active of signet of vampirism the boon variant of consume condition. Eat an enemy’s boons and heal your self for each one.

I feel it would be all right to have skills be designed so that they are kind of overpowered in the ideal situation. After all, if you used a skill at the moment when the conditions were perfect for it, you should get a sizable reward. Litany of Wrath and Defiant Stance both follow this philosophy, for example.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really, the passive needs a change more than the active. The passive desperately needs either a removal of the ICD or have the ICD changed to be per-attacker instead of global ICD. Changing it from a basic heal to a siphon would also help the skill.

Are you serious? These ideas would make it the most broken passive in the game.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really, the passive needs a change more than the active. The passive desperately needs either a removal of the ICD or have the ICD changed to be per-attacker instead of global ICD. Changing it from a basic heal to a siphon would also help the skill.

Are you serious? These ideas would make it the most broken passive in the game.

How so? Right now, the signet’s passive is a weak healing signet that requires you to get hit 1/second, on the second for max efficiency. Keep in mind that those hits are all but certain to be doing more damage than you are healing, so at no point does this signet ever let you actually gain health from its passive. Removal of the ICD or changing the ICD to be per-attacker would not change that in the slightest, but it would make it not so horridly irrelevant when dealing with multiple foes.

The passive and active both need work. As it is now, by returning a portion of health the passive basically functions as a damage-reduction signet. Because of the ICD and the flat return (which means the harder the hit, the less efficient the return), however, it performs below pretty much every other such signet. It is a healing signet that doesn’t heal you, and a damage-reduction signet that skews toward being less effective the more aggressively you are attacked, which is exactly when you need either signet.

When active, it provides a moderate-at-best heal and a dysfunctional unique condition. To be fully utilized, a party needs to be coordinated to strike exactly when the heal is used. At best, several people get a modest damage and heal bonus. The necromancer has to be prepared to maximize their hits immediately after using it…when they need healing, and as such are probably at their least aggressive. It is a struggle to achieve mediocrity. At worst, in WvW/world boss situations, the condition stacks will be stripped instantly by the zerg; your healing is being literally stolen by allied players, while in PvP the enemy can easily avoid the effect.

There are many other ways it could work. Make the passive siphon health whenever you gain life force, or inflict a single stack of the vampirism effect on enemies that hit you. Make the active allow siphoning in death shroud, or as mentioned above, consume boons on the target. I could go on and on. Left as it is, it’s just a very clearly inferior skill.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Keep in mind that those hits are all but certain to be doing more damage than you are healing, so at no point does this signet ever let you actually gain health from its passive.

What about mesmer clones?

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Keep in mind that those hits are all but certain to be doing more damage than you are healing, so at no point does this signet ever let you actually gain health from its passive.

What about mesmer clones?

Only if the clones are not Scepter, Staff, or Trident clones. Even then, gaining health requires that the Mesmer himself isn’t attacking you. In realistic situations, no, you’re not even gaining any health from mesmer clones.

However, I suppose there is that theoretical exception. I will admit to that.

Muchacho.2390:

I agree with Drarnor that the passive needs the changes. I think, given the name of the skill the passive, should be a siphon.

I also think the passive like the active should be something aggressive and because of that the passive should simply be a life steal on hit without any icd. Something around 90 would be a good number (ofc the passive should be effected by bloodthirst).

And if then the siphon traits would work in DS (for example by combining it with bloodthirst, bumping bloodthirst to a master trait and making quickening thirst a adept trait) Siphon builds could maybe finally be viable…

As somebody who plays Necro every now and then (love mah Wells and Marks), that’s not a bad idea. It’s not overpowered at all, and it’s useful enough to help survival. Especially if it works in Death Shroud, then FINALLY there could be healing of normal health while in DS, without being utterly OP.

Suggestion:

Signet of Vampirisim:
[Passive] Life siphoning is 100% more effect.
[Active] Mark an enemy to be siphoned for life each hit.

Notes
-no ICD
-drastically lower damage dealt during siphon
-Max number of hits on active 25
-lower cooldown to ~20 seconds.

Pros:
-now allows certain builds (rapid hits) to make use of the heal.
-Gives a nice buff to life siphoning traits and skills (dagger #2 anyone?)
-Focuses less on group use (impossible to gain the siphoning cap on your own).
-Doesn’t overpower the damage siphon part.

Cons:
-would need careful attention and more than likely, frequent adjustments until it is well balance which doesn’t seem like the balance team’s strong suit.

Didn’t post any numbers because it really isn’t worth the time anymore. They rarely ever take out suggestions seriously :/

NinjaEd.3946:

Suggestion:

Signet of Vampirisim:
[Passive] Life siphoning is 100% more effect.
[Active] Mark an enemy to be siphoned for life each hit.

Notes
-no ICD
-drastically lower damage dealt during siphon
-Max number of hits on active 25
-lower cooldown to ~20 seconds.

Pros:
-now allows certain builds (rapid hits) to make use of the heal.
-Gives a nice buff to life siphoning traits and skills (dagger #2 anyone?)
-Focuses less on group use (impossible to gain the siphoning cap on your own).
-Doesn’t overpower the damage siphon part.

Cons:
-would need careful attention and more than likely, frequent adjustments until it is well balance which doesn’t seem like the balance team’s strong suit.

Didn’t post any numbers because it really isn’t worth the time anymore. They rarely ever take out suggestions seriously :/

I don’t think this is a good idea since your “allies” can steal your health easily and the passive can not be used independly of a trait setup.

Tim.6450:

NinjaEd.3946:

Suggestion:

Signet of Vampirisim:
[Passive] Life siphoning is 100% more effect.
[Active] Mark an enemy to be siphoned for life each hit.

Notes
-no ICD
-drastically lower damage dealt during siphon
-Max number of hits on active 25
-lower cooldown to ~20 seconds.

Pros:
-now allows certain builds (rapid hits) to make use of the heal.
-Gives a nice buff to life siphoning traits and skills (dagger #2 anyone?)
-Focuses less on group use (impossible to gain the siphoning cap on your own).
-Doesn’t overpower the damage siphon part.

Cons:
-would need careful attention and more than likely, frequent adjustments until it is well balance which doesn’t seem like the balance team’s strong suit.

Didn’t post any numbers because it really isn’t worth the time anymore. They rarely ever take out suggestions seriously :/

I don’t think this is a good idea since your “allies” can steal your health easily and the passive can not be used independly of a trait setup.

There is 2 weapons this would work on, axe and dagger. Axe because of ghastly claws and dagger because of life siphon being both rapid and life siphon related. Perhaps only add the ICD for allies but for each separate one. That way in a group you get the best portion guaranteed.

As for traits, yes it would pigeonholed its use to a selection of traits but what is it exactly being used for right now besides test golems? The end would be to further expand on life siphoning for necro. Maybe rather than just life siphoning have it grant both additional life siphoning and “healing” effects such as parasitic contagion, unholy sanctuary, unholy martyr, vampiric master, etc.

No, only Dagger has a siphon on weapons. Only Signet of the Locust has a siphon on utilities. This means that unless you run main-hand dagger, trait, or plan on actually activating Signet of the Locust (yeah, nobody does this because the cooldown is way too long for the effect), your proposed passive literally does nothing. Signet passives need to be able to stand alone in function. Mesmers get a pass on Signet of the Ether because you literally cannot build a Mesmer that can’t generate illusions.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No, only Dagger has a siphon on weapons. Only Signet of the Locust has a siphon on utilities. This means that unless you run main-hand dagger, trait, or plan on actually activating Signet of the Locust (yeah, nobody does this because the cooldown is way too long for the effect), your proposed passive literally does nothing. Signet passives need to be able to stand alone in function. Mesmers get a pass on Signet of the Ether because you literally cannot build a Mesmer that can’t generate illusions.

Well there are multiple methods of healing from dealing or being dealt damage based on trait functions. Dagger life siphon is just a plus but the passive would effect a lot more than 1 weapon skill and 1 utility.

Another alternative could be instead of effecting life siphoning directly since it could throw out some nasty imbalances, is something like “Consume your life force periodically to gain life. absorb 5% life force every 3 seconds to heal you for X(disabled while in deathshroud)”. That way it ties to the base of the class and gives a nice little format to its use rather than following the dull performance of healing signet.

I included traits in my list, there. The fact remains that it would be a signet passive that requires further investment in the build to have any effect at all.

Also, signet passives are disabled in death shroud. Just an FYI.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I included traits in my list, there. The fact remains that it would be a signet passive that requires further investment in the build to have any effect at all.

Also, signet passives are disabled in death shroud. Just an FYI.

So……..I still like my original idea…

No one else does? A passive that Leeches(vampiric) from enemies into our life force pool while converting life force into health per second. Like I said someone else can crunch the numbers but as a concept I think it has risk and reward and it fits thematically. And since the passive will be cancelled in death shroud there is no worry about some weird interactions.

I am a little too high to think up an active. Like I said in my original post I would have it like warrior healing signet so the active would be almost moot…. Maybe something gimmicky.. like

Active: Cast time 1 sec- Summon and sacrifice demonic angel giving 100% life force 180cd…. Probably super op haha

Not really that great an idea as it trades sustain for sustain. At best, you’ll break even. At worst, you get poisoned in a 1v1 and lose on both fronts.

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I included traits in my list, there. The fact remains that it would be a signet passive that requires further investment in the build to have any effect at all.

Also, signet passives are disabled in death shroud. Just an FYI.

So……..I still like my original idea…

No one else does? A passive that Leeches(vampiric) from enemies into our life force pool while converting life force into health per second. Like I said someone else can crunch the numbers but as a concept I think it has risk and reward and it fits thematically. And since the passive will be cancelled in death shroud there is no worry about some weird interactions.

I am a little too high to think up an active. Like I said in my original post I would have it like warrior healing signet so the active would be almost moot…. Maybe something gimmicky.. like

Active: Cast time 1 sec- Summon and sacrifice demonic angel giving 100% life force 180cd…. Probably super op haha

Big whopping NO to making it another healing signet where the active is moot. Only the ele signet I feel is proper because they can trait to maintain passives with signets on cooldown and the active isn’t game breaking, I hate the thief/warrior/necro/Mesmer signets. Thief you never want to use the active, warrior same, Mesmer you just kite and stealth and easily maintain the strong passive (I don’t see them use the active much even though it looks neat :<). Less passive options more quick thinking. Signet’s should be a nice little bonus, the active should be worth using time to time.

As far as your suggested passive, a limitless AoE attack/self healing just doesn’t seem balanced at all. The conversion of life force gain to healing every x seconds I like (didn’t realize I posted something very similar to it) but there is no way to work the numbers on a mechanic like that. It’d either be incredibly overpowered or incredibly underwhelming.

The main problem with the passive eating lifeforce is that the death shroud mechanic is the necromancer’s main form of damage-absorption, in the absence of blocks, movement skills, invincibility, etc. A healing skill that’s always draining your supply is kind of going against the mechanic; you need the healing just to undo the extra damage you’ll take without death shroud. However, I can see that working as part of the active, perhaps consuming your lifeforce in one go and healing you on the amount lost.

ExtraCosmic.9082:

The main problem with the passive eating lifeforce is that the death shroud mechanic is the necromancer’s main form of damage-absorption, in the absence of blocks, movement skills, invincibility, etc. A healing skill that’s always draining your supply is kind of going against the mechanic; you need the healing just to undo the extra damage you’ll take without death shroud. However, I can see that working as part of the active, perhaps consuming your lifeforce in one go and healing you on the amount lost.

It’s really just a different method of using DS to sustain. Rather than entering the form and having it slowly drain so that you can use 5 new skills, it moderately maintains the effect letting you stay out of it (it wouldn’t be a 100% conversion rate). You’d still be able to enter DS for a quick fear or life xfer or tainted shackles but overall such a build would not rely on entering DS for any sustain and that is just if you had the passive going. The active still needs work and removing the ICD for the necro imo would be the 1st step.

SoV passive is horrible. How does gaining a few hundred health per second make up for massive spike damage? Maybe if I wait a minute or two…

SoV is just bad for anything. Even the active is lame. I only use it, ever, to add a miniscule amount of damage when I am confident of not needing to heal more than a couple thousand health.

For that reason, ICD should be something like 14 seconds.

This signet is a joke. They went to stupid lengths to make sure it wouldnt be overpowered, and they did such a good job it has no use in any game mode. Change the effect entirely if siphons are not allowed to be good. And trash siphons altogether while you’re at it.

I hope that in one fell swoop they allow necro utilities to be visible while in death shroud, which allows signets to work, which allows SoV to work through death shroud. Would be a better solution than what we have now and wouldn’t need much rebalancing.