Guild Wars 2

I just think this is ridiculous.

Conditions were already OP, and what do they do? Nerf power builds instead.
I do understand the change from a PvE point of view, but me and a lot of players are concerned about WvW.

We’ll see the boring condition gameplay everywhere, drop conditions, run while they tear the enemy apart, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Tell me where is the logic in this. This was the worst change in a feature patch that could be otherwise great.

Am I missing something here? Please give some feedback regarding this.

ANet doesn’t care about the best part of WvW and they never have.

ANet : ….Logic ? … kitten logic.

This is really stupid even in sPvP there are now all condi bunker and kittening hambows.As a thief im now useless.

If it was about bringing up condi builds in PvE they could have just increased the physical resistance of mobs by 10%.

I keep saying this: the ferocity change isn’t as big as many people are making it out to be.

Pre-ferocity WvW build (zerker trinkets, soldiers everything else) has a 20% crit chance and 186% crit damage, before traits. Post ferocity builds will have 173% crit damage running the same stats. So, the overall drop in power comes to

(1.73 × 0.2 + 0.8) / (1.86 × 0.2 + 0.8) = 1.146 / 1.172 = 0.9778, or a 2.2% reduction in damage.

Excuse me if I am unsympathetic. Now, lets throw on 300 crit damage and 300 ferocity/crit damage from traits, just for kicks.

(1.93 × 0.35 + 0.65) / (2.16 × 0.35 + 0.65) = 1.326 / 1.406 = 0.9431, or a 5.7% reduction in damage.

Which amounts to barely anything at all.

lazycalm.5186:

Conditions were already OP, and what do they do? Nerf power builds instead.
I do understand the change from a PvE point of view, but me and a lot of players are concerned about WvW.
[…]

Am I missing something here? Please give some feedback regarding this.

The part missing is that this was neither about PvE nor WvW. This was about a relative stat-imbalance in that crit damage had two distinct issues compared to other stats:

• It scaled better, per-point.
• It had really weird itemization costs, sometimes items with very low budgets had 5%-7% of crit damage while items with higher budgets had 2%-3%.

And that’s what the fix fixes. Has nothing to do with class balance, even though – of course – it will affect it down the line. But you work from larger to smaller issues, and something as underlying as crit damage’s issues takes priority. Needs to be removed before further balancing happens, or all that balancing would be for naught later on.

carighan who cares…
Its not balance since in WWW condition were already more efficient than power build

But since you play mesmer i can see why you welcome any nerf to power.
Perplexity wasn t hit so hard.

LordByron.8369:

carighan who cares…
Its not balance since in WWW condition were already more efficient than power build

But since you play mesmer i can see why you welcome any nerf to power.
Perplexity wasn t hit so hard.

Perplexity? Gee.
I play a direct-damage triple-swords setup focused around interrupting. Running zerker gear in PvE, mixed zerker/celestial in WvW.

So yeah, tell me about getting hit hard, at least you main an Elementalist. :P

Still, I very much agree with the nerf. Despite being primarily affected by it, my Celestial gear is jewelry. The nerf has nothing to do with class balance or build balance, despite affecting it. Hence the whole “but, but, conditions! ;_;” don’t matter to the devs who decided on it. They had to fix an underlying problem. They did. It’s up to the class devs to fix imbalances, not to the system/mechanics devs.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I keep saying this: the ferocity change isn’t as big as many people are making it out to be.

Pre-ferocity WvW build (zerker trinkets, soldiers everything else) has a 20% crit chance and 186% crit damage, before traits. Post ferocity builds will have 173% crit damage running the same stats. So, the overall drop in power comes to

(1.73 × 0.2 + 0.8) / (1.86 × 0.2 + 0.8) = 1.146 / 1.172 = 0.9778, or a 2.2% reduction in damage.

Excuse me if I am unsympathetic. Now, lets throw on 300 crit damage and 300 ferocity/crit damage from traits, just for kicks.

(1.93 × 0.35 + 0.65) / (2.16 × 0.35 + 0.65) = 1.326 / 1.406 = 0.9431, or a 5.7% reduction in damage.

Which amounts to barely anything at all.

My hammer build relied on a perfectly timed high crit damage burst to get my enemy down after baiting out their blocks and evades. Now that burst hits for 30% less, it’s not barely anything at all.

My balanced valk/zerker thief’s burst has been reduced by 25 to 30%.

The famed “10% over all” didn’t take into account any builds that rely on being bursty.

Carighan.6758:

Perplexity? Gee.
I play a direct-damage triple-swords setup focused around interrupting. Running zerker gear in PvE,.

I bet it works wonder….. ._.
Its like a condition ele in PvE possibly

LordByron.8369:

I bet it works wonder….. ._.
Its like a condition ele in PvE possibly

Well, up to this patch I wasn’t fond of constantly retraiting, so I just swap out the gear and surprisingly the difference is marginal. The only real noticeable difference was that my focus doesn’t reflect.

Anyhow the point is, I’m getting hit hard by the nerf. It’s still a good change, it made no sense how crit damage worked so far. Maybe it’s because I’m a dev myself, but I do prefer them fixing underlying systems before starting something as – comparatively – meaningless as class balance.

So in WWW we have a condtiion meta paired with zerg trains of PVT heavies.

In roaming we have PU mesmer dominance that is still as ridiculous as before.

The patch pushed even more the problematic builds nerfing the ones that were already struggling…..

And you say its a good change?

Or now you will tell me that power builds in www are OP beacuse “crit scales too much”, and DD ele is OP as a roamer also i bet.

If you are a dev (that doens t mean anything) you should know what not to do in a live server.

LordByron.8369:

Or now you will tell me that power builds in www are OP beacuse “crit scales too much”, and DD ele is OP as a roamer also i bet.

Considering I typed it out thrice now, and you’re still trying to connect the change to class balance, I don’t think it’s worth trying. Sorry. You’re set on your opinion, what’s the point of me trying to argue the – probable – reason behind the change?

LordByron.8369:

If you are a dev (that doens t mean anything) you should know what not to do in a live server.

As a dev, I would say that something like the old Crit Damage implementation should have never gone live. However it did, and the change was sure to be hated among players so it was probably pushed off to Later™.
Ofc, that doesn’t actually solve anything so they had to do it at some point. Which was yesterday, in the end.

Carighan.6758:

lazycalm.5186:

Conditions were already OP, and what do they do? Nerf power builds instead.
I do understand the change from a PvE point of view, but me and a lot of players are concerned about WvW.
[…]

Am I missing something here? Please give some feedback regarding this.

The part missing is that this was neither about PvE nor WvW. This was about a relative stat-imbalance in that crit damage had two distinct issues compared to other stats:

• It scaled better, per-point.
• It had really weird itemization costs, sometimes items with very low budgets had 5%-7% of crit damage while items with higher budgets had 2%-3%.

And that’s what the fix fixes. Has nothing to do with class balance, even though – of course – it will affect it down the line. But you work from larger to smaller issues, and something as underlying as crit damage’s issues takes priority. Needs to be removed before further balancing happens, or all that balancing would be for naught later on.

It was clearly a nerf because they didn’t compensate for the massive +50% critical damage loss that almost every power build experienced.

And, no, the sigil and rune changes don’t make up for it. Not even close.

They’ve also made no statements of intent of giving some return to power builds for the loss. At this point, your claim is total fan-fiction.

Inspite of the fact that you could have calculated these things pre-patch, I still came here expected to see the same nonsense the forum is always filled with. I mean we knew about the crit damage changes and people still act like they are surprised.

Nice tactic:

pre patch:“oh shut up until patch comes”
Post patch"oh shut up you already knew"

We’re up to every Power build losing +50% critical damage. This is getting delicious. At this rate, in a week all Power builds will have lost 100% critical damage and the player’s pointer finger, while Conditions gained two arms, were donated computers, and are now able to multibox.

@Julie: With Merciless hammer and 100% character sheet critical damage, you were doing 1.25x*(1 + 1.5) = 3.125 times your base damage with each crit while the enemy was disabled. With a 30% critical damage reduction and the Merciless Hammer nerf, you’ll be at 1.2x*(1 + 1.2) = 2.64 times your base damage. 2.64 / 3.125 = .8448, so you are now doing 84.5% of the damage you used to be doing for every crit. That’s a 15.5% damage loss. Not 30%.

I played Hammer/GS for months in WvW back when everyone laughed at how terrible Hammer was as a weapon. I don’t know what you were baiting blocks/evades out with, other than the opponent’s general lack of knowledge/panicking at auto-attacks, but the only thing to really worry about against a Hammer Warrior is Earthshaker. Dodge that, and their everything is ruined. Now if you’re also using something like Bull’s Charge + 100B as part of your combo to get them to be nervous before transitioning, that’s something else. In that case though, you should have the tools you need to continue to apply pressure.

Regardless, you should be able to kill people post-Ferocity unless you were crutching kitten Hammer doing way more damage in an easy CC chain than it probably rightfully should. It STILL can do a load of damage, just ~16% less.

If you want more opportunities to land more damage with Earthshaker, maybe sacrifice the 50% crit on stun and go with Leg Specialist. In either case, try adapting, because it really shouldn’t be a very big deal.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Julie: With Merciless hammer and 100% character sheet critical damage, you were doing 1.25x*(1 + 1.5) = 3.125 times your base damage with each crit while the enemy was disabled. With a 30% critical damage reduction and the Merciless Hammer nerf, you’ll be at 1.2x*(1 + 1.2) = 2.64 times your base damage. 2.64 / 3.125 = .8448, so you are now doing 84.5% of the damage you used to be doing for every crit. That’s a 15.5% damage loss. Not 30%.

And that’s still assuming every – single – hit is capable of critting. Which isn’t really true at all.

Cog if i used a hammer/GS warrior and a necro i would also be happy of ferocity nerf unless i liked balanced fights…..

LordByron.8369:

Cog if i used a hammer/GS warrior and a necro i would also be happy of ferocity nerf unless i liked balanced fights…..

Hammer/GS is a Power build. I run a Power DS Necro that gets a lot of damage from 85% crit chance LBs. I maxed on crit dmg through Cavalier/Zerker gear and going all the way up the Soul Reaping line. I lost 30% crit damage off of my paper doll.

I hardly feel a thing, especially with Sigil of Air/Fire now added to my repertoire.

Play better.

Yeah and they are both 2 hands … you got 2 sigils as bonus along the way…also you naturally high armor+vit and healing signet (and mobility) are the reason i need high DPS.

So your counters were nerfed badly…..your nerfs were more light.

A warrior tha tells an ele L2p is the best….

Firstly. WvW has been dominated by direct-damage since launch, and this will continue. Zerging and roaming alike.

Secondly, there have been nerfs to condition builds. Less condition duration from runes, infact you can get more -cond. duration then +cond. duration from runes.

Previously you could get 30%cond duration from traits and 30% from runes. So with food this could top you off at full condition duration.
Now the max from runes is 20% at very best, so even with foodbuff you are 10% short of the cap.
So you have to use givers exotic weapons (as there is no ascended version) to now cap conditions.

Bunkers have been nerfed aswell as boon duration took a nerf to the face aswell.

When I role elementlist to counter 2 thief in pvp , I still die in 5 sec.
Condition is OK!! At least, player can do something when is injured much more conditions before death.

LordByron, at this point it really feels like you’re just grasping.

Now you even had to divert attention to the sigils to explain why others are fine with the change? Next it’s the item skins? Then the sPvP dailies?

@LordByron: I’m glad you’re focusing on the Warrior part, because I don’t play the Warrior anymore. I just roam solo (or sometimes with others now that I started a more active guild with my girlfriend) with my Power Necro. I also didn’t use Healing Signet, I used Healing Surge, even after the Healing Signet change.

Stop using your class as a crutch to complain about life. I’ve seen Eles ball outrageous in WvW. In fact, it’s probably the class that I can most tell if the player knows what he/she is doing when I 1v1 him/her. A good Ele is really fun to fight, and I have to be very careful with watching what shields/etc. they have up to not screw myself.

If you keep thinking its your class that is holding you back, you won’t ever get any better. Ele could probably use some buffs, but I see them do some really cool things.

I have a much more interesting time fighting a good Ele than a Warrior.

And everyone benefits from the Sigil changes. Not just 2Hers. I use D+F/A+D on my Necro, and benefit enormously.

You really just need to play better. The Ferocity change is good for the health of the game, and you can outplay the damage reduction.

Cog i know you play the 2 easiest meta FOTM www profession that dodged every bullet.

Yet i when i read this:

I can most tell if the player knows what he/she is doing when I 1v1 him/her.

i can only see you don t know much about other profession….
Ele “WAS” fine in 1vs1….and a handicap at XvsX (where X=X).

Ele was hit this time by 4 different nerfs….this would be OT to discuss here….

yet it explains the issue…
Devs instead of addressing OP profession (that are infact warrior and necro in WWW) just attacked randomly Other professions.

That is why you are here defending the patch.
And its not only my opinion:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/So-Ferocity-but-NO-CONDI-NERF/first#post3907149

could link so many of those…..

High armor/vit (healing signet) and Condibunker are clearly the winner here.
OP and untouched.

LordByron.8369:

Cog i know you play the 2 easiest meta FOTM www profession that dodged every bullet.

Aaaand… ad hominem !

LordByron.8369:

Devs instead of addressing OP profession (that are infact warrior and necro in WWW) just attacked randomly Other professions.

But, let’s try to explain this once more:
This nerf was not about you. This might or might not be difficult to believe, I know. From your posts it seems everything is always out to get your precious class in a dark corner, or at least that’s the only thing you ever say about it.

But this wasn’t about Elementalists. Or Warriors. Or Necros! Or even classes, as a whole!

It was about (surprise!) crit damage!
The devs who agreed upon this nerf probably couldn’t care any less about whether you think this nerfs your elementalist or further promotes condi bunkering or anything.

To give you an idea of how little it matters:
This patch fixed something so that on taller characters (the slider when making them), the camera will actually sit higher. Did you know that this does in fact convey a PvP advantage in that you can more easily look over walls or other obstacles?
Yet the fix was needed for a wholly different reason which is more easily explained with the pictures on reddit. On taller characters, the char took up a large amount of screen space, something the devs probably never considered when coding the camera initially.

Exactly the same as that example, the devs probably never considered just how problematic the old crit damage implementation was for itemization efforts. In an effort to alleviate it, Ferocity is now here. It happens to also nerf crit damage, yes. This is probably not a bad thing, considering how easy it was to stack the stat really high, even if this creates or enhances imbalances. Yes, even given that.

That’s because a game-wide change takes priority over a class-wide change or type-wide change. And as such, it has to be done first, then the smaller elements are rebalanced again.

Does this nerf your Elementalist? Maybe, I’m not sure. Haven’t tried. Doesn’t matter, anyhow. Not the point and not the scope of the nerf.

In every version of these Ferocity complaint theads, there’s a gross misunderstanding of:

1. How much the change actually impacts damage.
2. Why the change was implemented.
3. What the change represents for the future health of the game.

You could link so many of those, and they’d all be ridiculous overreactions in the fact of change they don’t understand. Not unexpected.

I’d make a dode/vigor joke, but Necros don’t have any evasion abilities/vigor availability. I’d make a block/invuln joke, but Necros don’t have that either.

Also, I want to see how many more fallacies Carighan comes up with.

Wait, do you think I’m a Condibunker, LordByron? In the face of all the times I’ve said I’m a Power DS Necro who maxed his gear/traits out with crit damage before the Ferocity change? Good golly, Ms. Molly.

Cogbyrn.7283:

1. How much the change actually impacts damage.

More than said in the preview way more….
Also it damages balanced build that are struggling since release…
And thus hurts build diversity

2. Why the change was implemented.

I have a couple of theories….
To push people to change builds (and equipment => gems)
Or simply in the outcoming introduction of a new tier possibly of infusions…

3. What the change represents for the future health of the game.

You don t know that but for sure it is ruining it today….

Carighan was the one saying the ferocity on celestial was fine without compensation…
He was proven wrong even by the same devs he was defending…

I don t even need to read his posts to know what he will say.

So… move with the tides or throw up your hands and admit you can’t play any way but the way you’ve gotten used to.

Was everyone running 100% crit build all the time in WvW? I never seen these 100% crit chance builds in WvW.

Seems like to many people think the only damage is red damage and white damage never existed.

If you where criting 100% of the time you kind of would have a point if you didn’t crit all the time and probably weren’t then you did not lose as much damage as many of you claim.

oZii.2864:

Was everyone running 100% crit build all the time in WvW? I never seen these 100% crit chance builds in WvW.

Seems like to many people think the only damage is red damage and white damage never existed.

If you where criting 100% of the time you kind of would have a point if you didn’t crit all the time and probably weren’t then you did not lose as much damage as many of you claim.

I think Backstab can be geared/traited to be a 100% chance to crit, and with a Power DS build as a Necro, my chance to crit in DS (which isn’t all of my damage, either) is about 85% given my gear.

It’s fun to assume 100% chance to crit when analyzing the numbers, though, because people are still way off in how much damage they think they are losing.

Because (at least in pve) condition damage already sucked.
Why break it even more?

Anet should just seperate pvp and pve balance already. As long as pvp and pve balance is shared, there will never be proper balance.

Sorry hipsters anet doesn’t nerf condi just because very small minority wants power spec be best in everything.

You play this game long enough and read these posts long enough and you realize this whole game has become a meta this and meta that. Meta DPS builds or go home. Meta complain about everything in or not in this game. I would think eventually the Meta masses would realize that this new patch will give them an opportunity to explore new ‘meta builds’ atleast, and keep them busy for a while. If you don’t like change, then come back in two weeks and someone can tell you what to buy/build and you can be meta again. It’s a game; supposedly for enjoyment….

Julie Yann.5379:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I keep saying this: the ferocity change isn’t as big as many people are making it out to be.

Pre-ferocity WvW build (zerker trinkets, soldiers everything else) has a 20% crit chance and 186% crit damage, before traits. Post ferocity builds will have 173% crit damage running the same stats. So, the overall drop in power comes to

(1.73 × 0.2 + 0.8) / (1.86 × 0.2 + 0.8) = 1.146 / 1.172 = 0.9778, or a 2.2% reduction in damage.

Excuse me if I am unsympathetic. Now, lets throw on 300 crit damage and 300 ferocity/crit damage from traits, just for kicks.

(1.93 × 0.35 + 0.65) / (2.16 × 0.35 + 0.65) = 1.326 / 1.406 = 0.9431, or a 5.7% reduction in damage.

Which amounts to barely anything at all.

My hammer build relied on a perfectly timed high crit damage burst to get my enemy down after baiting out their blocks and evades. Now that burst hits for 30% less, it’s not barely anything at all.

Math 93 lesson here: proportions are relative. When comparing the changes between builds, you have to do it relative to another build. The absolute distance actually means very little in this case.

For example, in the numbers I posted, there is a 23% loss in crit damage as an absolute stat. But, this is already on top of 150% damage, meaning that the relative loss in damage is only 10.6%. That is, you are only hitting 89.4% as hard as you used to be on crits.

I’ve done the math a few times, and the maximum amount of “nerf” you can get is a 15.5% decrease in damage. This decrease is assuming full zerker, 6 points in precision and ferocity, ferocity related food and banners, and 100% crit chance. Essentially, the worst it can get. Anyone that tells you otherwise either doesn’t understand math, or doesn’t care that they’re lying.

Carighan.6758:

lazycalm.5186:

Conditions were already OP, and what do they do? Nerf power builds instead.
I do understand the change from a PvE point of view, but me and a lot of players are concerned about WvW.
[…]

Am I missing something here? Please give some feedback regarding this.

The part missing is that this was neither about PvE nor WvW. This was about a relative stat-imbalance in that crit damage had two distinct issues compared to other stats:

• It scaled better, per-point.
• It had really weird itemization costs, sometimes items with very low budgets had 5%-7% of crit damage while items with higher budgets had 2%-3%.

And that’s what the fix fixes. Has nothing to do with class balance, even though – of course – it will affect it down the line. But you work from larger to smaller issues, and something as underlying as crit damage’s issues takes priority. Needs to be removed before further balancing happens, or all that balancing would be for naught later on.

This isn’t completely true. In the ready-up, the devs said that the ferocity change was, indeed, a direct nerf aimed at kill times in PVE, and was the first step in reducing the PVE zerker meta.

The gear combinations was probably a mostly unspoken additional reason; you were basically getting to play with a build set to 11 statistically while everyone else was limited to 10 if you knew how to best allocate your gear choices.

That was the only really glaring imbalance when it came to crit damage allocation. The rest of it could have been largely fixed with less stupid AI and better content design (mobs that use more conditions, connect with attacks more often, have more toughness instead of being HP blobs, etc.).

But that would have taken a lot more work and time.

Cogbyrn.7283:

We’re up to every Power build losing +50% critical damage. This is getting delicious. At this rate, in a week all Power builds will have lost 100% critical damage and the player’s pointer finger, while Conditions gained two arms, were donated computers, and are now able to multibox.

@Julie: With Merciless hammer and 100% character sheet critical damage, you were doing 1.25x*(1 + 1.5) = 3.125 times your base damage with each crit while the enemy was disabled. With a 30% critical damage reduction and the Merciless Hammer nerf, you’ll be at 1.2x*(1 + 1.2) = 2.64 times your base damage. 2.64 / 3.125 = .8448, so you are now doing 84.5% of the damage you used to be doing for every crit. That’s a 15.5% damage loss. Not 30%.

I played Hammer/GS for months in WvW back when everyone laughed at how terrible Hammer was as a weapon. I don’t know what you were baiting blocks/evades out with, other than the opponent’s general lack of knowledge/panicking at auto-attacks, but the only thing to really worry about against a Hammer Warrior is Earthshaker. Dodge that, and their everything is ruined. Now if you’re also using something like Bull’s Charge + 100B as part of your combo to get them to be nervous before transitioning, that’s something else. In that case though, you should have the tools you need to continue to apply pressure.

Regardless, you should be able to kill people post-Ferocity unless you were crutching kitten Hammer doing way more damage in an easy CC chain than it probably rightfully should. It STILL can do a load of damage, just ~16% less.

If you want more opportunities to land more damage with Earthshaker, maybe sacrifice the 50% crit on stun and go with Leg Specialist. In either case, try adapting, because it really shouldn’t be a very big deal.

I did the math and you are right, my loss is 15% on those crits. It’s weird cause I use to hit 5k ES pre patch against quishies and the highest ES burst I saw last night was 3.5k vs those same quishies in WvW. With the amount of people I kill in a night I should have seen 4K+ at least once. It’s was common for me to hit 3 to 4k auto attacks in a combo, the highest I saw last night was 2.2k. Something is not jiving, what I see on paper is not what I am seeing on screen.

I know I will be able to still get kills with my hammer but my build has lost so much damage over the last few patches. I’ve been playing Hammer/SwSh in WvW for a little over a year. It was never considered OP until Hambow made it’s way to PvP. Since then it’s be nerf after nerf for my favorite weapon. I will adapt it for zerging and GvG but why would I still use it for roaming when a tanky condi build would be so much more effective. I’d be intentionally gimping myself by taking it.

Depending on how much it gimps you, it could easily be worth it to roam with your favored weapons because it’s more fun. Enjoyment trumps efficiency for me as long as I can still have entertaining fights with my build.

Also, I need to have a moment with you: when people started foaming about how imba the Hammer was, did you also go “…it hasn’t changed since everyone called it trash”? I remember seeing my first “Hammer is OP” thread and literally laughing out loud. Defektive had made multiple Hambow videos way back in the day (I believe it was Hambow, in sPvP), and everyone was always “Mmmm, nope, your opponents were bad, weapon is trash”.

I think Cleansing Ire hit the scene, and that’s really when the complaint rubber hit the road.

Anyway, I digress. I’m also not sure why your empirical number aren’t matching what the calcs are showing. Do you run Unsuspecting Foe? Is the stun on ES still being applied before the damage? If not, you might be missing Merciless Hammer damage on the ES which is bringing it down more than you’d expect.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Depending on how much it gimps you, it could easily be worth it to roam with your favored weapons because it’s more fun. Enjoyment trumps efficiency for me as long as I can still have entertaining fights with my build.

Also, I need to have a moment with you: when people started foaming about how imba the Hammer was, did you also go “…it hasn’t changed since everyone called it trash”? I remember seeing my first “Hammer is OP” thread and literally laughing out loud. Defektive had made multiple Hambow videos way back in the day (I believe it was Hambow, in sPvP), and everyone was always “Mmmm, nope, your opponents were bad, weapon is trash”.

I think Cleansing Ire hit the scene, and that’s really when the complaint rubber hit the road.

Anyway, I digress. I’m also not sure why your empirical number aren’t matching what the calcs are showing. Do you run Unsuspecting Foe? Is the stun on ES still being applied before the damage? If not, you might be missing Merciless Hammer damage on the ES which is bringing it down more than you’d expect.

I’m trying trading UF for sigil of intelligence, that way I can pick up burst mastery to make up for some the lost damage. I am also wondering if the Merciless Hammer trait is working properly with ES, it would account for the numbers I am seeing.

I ran Hambow in WvW for quite a while before the hammer train meta settled in, it was amazing for tower defense and holding chokes and lord rooms. I basically got laughed at for using a Hammer cause it was supposedly a horrible weapon. The lack of mobility is what made me switch to sword n board which worked really well for my play style and still people thought its was terrible even though I was getting good kills. It was all about the frenzied bullcharged100b back then. That’s what the self proclaimed pros used . So yes, when people cried OP Hammer I basically answered “It hasn’t changed since people called it bad.”

Well one hammer warrior in a crowd isn’t too bad to deal with.

It’s when you get trained by multiple warriors all with leg specialist that it starts seeming horrible if you don’t have stability and cleanses ready.

People didn’t realize how good of an offensive group support weapon it was at first so it was not popular.

Overkillengine.6084:

Well one hammer warrior in a crowd isn’t too bad to deal with.

It’s when you get trained by multiple warriors all with leg specialist that it starts seeming horrible if you don’t have stability and cleanses ready.

People didn’t realize how good of an offensive group support weapon it was at first so it was not popular.

And Hambow became a big squeeze in sPvP.

The part that’s most amusing isn’t the fact that people didn’t realize it for several months. It’s that everyone called it trash for several months, then the forums/community did a huge 180 and started calling it OP.

When basically nothing changed.

Just… delicious.

Can’t you people at least condense all of your pointless inaccurate ranting into one thread?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Overkillengine.6084:

Well one hammer warrior in a crowd isn’t too bad to deal with.

It’s when you get trained by multiple warriors all with leg specialist that it starts seeming horrible if you don’t have stability and cleanses ready.

People didn’t realize how good of an offensive group support weapon it was at first so it was not popular.

And Hambow became a big squeeze in sPvP.

The part that’s most amusing isn’t the fact that people didn’t realize it for several months. It’s that everyone called it trash for several months, then the forums/community did a huge 180 and started calling it OP.

When basically nothing changed.

Just… delicious.

What changed was, Warriors started using it. Before that every Warrior and his mom was 100B+Frenzy. In line with the rest of the first 6months of GW2 which was essentially the “instagib”-meta.

Additionally, Warriors werent overpowered through other means. Your ability to use a weapon effectively is tied into your ability to stay alive. And we all know Warriors got a significant survivability buff last year. Twice even.

So dont say nothing changed, a lot has changed.

Look at Engineers AR, been around since beta. No one bat an eye untill some 9 months post-release. Not because AR itself changed, but everything around it did.

The three worst condi builds in WvW are all reliant on perplexity runes, +40% duration food, and some or all use of dire gear. It wouldn’t be that hard to fix. Frankly it’s just lazy for anet to do nothing because this isn’t part of the PvE meta or zerg meta in WvW, all it does is ruin the one aspect of WvW that many players find most interesting.

I don’t buy the argument that it’s lessening build diversity either to get condis back in check. They will still be a big part of roaming and small group combat if something is done about the three things mentioned. We should not be in a situation where condis are doing like 90% or more of a player’s damage…all it boils down to is you either have enough purging or don’t (in a fair fight), and that’s all that decides outcomes. That is boring.

To me this is really starting to feel like deja vu all over again. My favorite format in GW1 was team arenas, and what happened there? Passive hexing and condi skills kept getting buffed trying to force pressure builds into the GvG meta, which didn’t work, and all that happened was TA was kitten on by tab hexers and spear chucking rangers until all the good players quit. Then they closed it down when the format was relegated to a few teams farming squads from random arenas all night.

I guarantee if nothing is done about condis , the roaming players and small combat guilds are going to start falling apart and quitting at a faster rate, until there’s no one left besides P/D thieves trolling clueless players.

zen.6091:

The three worst condi builds in WvW are all reliant on perplexity runes, +40% duration food, and some or all use of dire gear. It wouldn’t be that hard to fix. Frankly it’s just lazy for anet to do nothing because this isn’t part of the PvE meta or zerg meta in WvW, all it does is ruin the one aspect of WvW that many players find most interesting.

To be fair, it’s mostly the food I don’t get. I don’t like being reliant on it when playing condition, either. It’s a crutch. Why do I need it? Plus it also enforces an arms race, you need -40% food if you’re faced with +40%, and vice versa.

Hi everyone,

we are collecting the feedback about issues in dedicated threads because it makes it easier for the community team and others to keep track of it all. You are very welcome to repost your questions, comments and concerns in this thread.

Thank you for your understanding.