Guild Wars 2

Seriously, these days/weeks, I’ve been seing engi all the time in PvP, with a build only based on running, and controlling, and it really is the most annoying thing i’ve ever met, if he plays a little bit well you get controlled all the time, knockback, immobilized and every other thing that everyone likes.

It’s really just unsportsmanlike, it takes off all the fun of fighting, and it’s just so hard to kill due to all the healing, blocking, running, serioulsy this is the biggest trash in this game in PvP, and it makes me rage all the time. This is the only thing that makes me rage in PvP, because it’s just not fun to meet.

So, when is the nerf comming?

I guess after they’re no longer the rarest class by a fair margin?

I get the feeling the elementalist will be taking a seat on the bench with rangers next, probably the thief after that…dont think engi is going to get buffed (nerfed) to death until necro and theif have gone before it

Well, we might not be playing in the same rank then, because everytime I go in team tournament there’s ALWAYS an engi in the other team, it’s the only class that I see every single game.

So for me, it’s by far the most played calss.

Anataboshi.9842:

Well, we might not be playing in the same rank then, because everytime I go in team tournament there’s ALWAYS an engi in the other team, it’s the only class that I see every single game.

So for me, it’s by far the most played calss.

I see an engi every other game, but there’s almost always 2-3 warriors and 1-2 guardians in the game.

I see about as many guardians and warrior as engi, but still, engis are the one I see all the time.

And even if they’re as played as guardians and warrior, these two aren’t half as annoying as engi to play against, so it’s not that much of a problem.

The real problem is just the fact that facing an engi is the most boring and annoying moment in tournaments.

Theyve actually been nerfed the last few patches and theyre getting another few small nerfs in the coming one, to answer your question. They seem to be taking it slow which is a good thing in the long run imo.

But who knows, maybe the devs will get griefed by an one while on their warriors, and the next week engies will be knocked down to the level of eles.

I was talking about anything but sPvP.
Engineers have tons of issues. Lack of scaling on kits, lack of AI on turrets, bugged mechanics, broken traits, buggy elites, broken elites.
Add to that a relatively complex class system and it’s easy to see why people drop their Engineers early and often.

Carighan.6758:

I was talking about anything but sPvP.
Engineers have tons of issues. Lack of scaling on kits, lack of AI on turrets, bugged mechanics, broken traits, buggy elites, broken elites.
Add to that a relatively complex class system and it’s easy to see why people drop their Engineers early and often.

Then why did you even answer that? I asked for a nerf in sPvP and that’s all, nothing else.

Sizer.5632:

Theyve actually been nerfed the last few patches and theyre getting another few small nerfs in the coming one, to answer your question. They seem to be taking it slow which is a good thing in the long run imo.

But who knows, maybe the devs will get griefed by an one while on their warriors, and the next week engies will be knocked down to the level of eles.

Thanks for the answer. I started to play GW2 again a few weeks ago, to do tournaments with my friends, and I didn’t really know what happened in the previous patches, I’ve only just notice what I was playing against in tournaments, and really, since I’ve been back on the game, the engineers have been a big pain in th a**, a lot more than anything else, and it just makes me want to stop playing again.

I just hope they’ll get a good nerf, and will stop this insanity.

i have respect for engis. but i hate it to play against them because of the light effects. then its the only moment my game laggs in pvp and they just need to kill me

I think engineers are in a decent place. Once they nerf warriors, engineers may need a slight tweak or 2, but otherwise will be a perfectly viable option in a meta.

Sizer.5632:

Theyve actually been nerfed the last few patches and theyre getting another few small nerfs in the coming one, to answer your question. They seem to be taking it slow which is a good thing in the long run imo.

But who knows, maybe the devs will get griefed by an one while on their warriors, and the next week engies will be knocked down to the level of eles.

this…it took then up to a couple months ago to finally break the ranger’s last legs

I get the feeling the grief thing is what happened to some dev’s pet warrior from my GW1 ele, hence why that class is so epicly mediocre for its complexity

To the comment about engi skills being broken and such…yea. Class should be so much more powerful than it is, and it’s lack of power is because their non-kit weapons were nerfed under the table, and only a couple of their kits do the damage in pve to bring home the bacon… I have a feeling that anyone who tried engi and gave up likely started it in pve and found all those issues before it hit 80 and could put on things like its insane bunker/control builds and a couple others to see what the thing is still actually capable of doing in spite of all the broken stuff.

And to the turret ai…get in line, your class isn’t purpose built around some epic fail pet that’s forced on you and ruins all small-group oriented activities with it’s mere presence generating aggro/mob placement/stacking issues (mai trin, marionette wardens, coe alpha, ac spider and kholer…the list goes on), while i would like to see better ai, at least you can detonate your turrets to stop the —the only word for this class of deformities is censored as “kitten”-- from auto aggroing anything in range.

I actualy run an enginer right now… bomb kit is totaly viable damage wise in a dps meta. Its just so few engy know how to correctly might stack or use their toolkit the class before longs becomes a total conumdrum. Running an enginer doesnt mean sticking to one utility build you have to constantly adapt your utility. In comparison to the warrior who simply keep the same utility at all time save for banner swap the enginer is actualy a huge mess because he can contribute in so many ways yet due to the class innate complexity most player wont think about it

Enginer bomb has fire field turret have blast and so big oll bomb. If anything i didnt read but i think rifle might also have a blast, Engy can easily proc might to the team.

As a genious enginer mentionned in the class forum on a 30 30 0 0 10 build we got flamethrower for tanking switch, ranged damage from grenade, Melee damage and fire fields from bomb, Party support from elixir gun, and stealth spam from smoke field proced by utilities.

Enginer isnt actualy bad its quite a strong class it just happen to be so complex that most people are effraid to even run it or cant find a mean to use it effectively. It took me one year to find a way to use my enginer correctly while i mastered about every other class before. When it came to create my 8th character i decided i ned to give the enginer a shot went to the forum and started looking for clues.

Most people run enginer because they want to run (yes you see it coming) guns or turret spammers. Few if anything cares about the bombs or the grenade gimmicks they want ’’Guns’’ or automatic turret bunkers. While enginer pistol is interesting for cond damage thief vastly outdamage the enginer in the spec, as for where rifle stands warrior long proven that sniper assasination is their domain and not the one of enginer wich actualy use its rifle more like a shotgun then a sniper rifle.

In every domain save for sPvP enginer is blatantly a dead class. Its sad realy but reality is that the class is used either by pro meta spvp player whos been playing since day 1 release and can run enginer to the perfect point, or by noobs who dont have a clue as to what they doing and are desesperately trying to find a decent build.

Enginer specialisation is utherly foggy at best. On one side you have the explosive wich runs condition damage as well and on another you got static discharge wich is the critical damage tool belt tree yet next to no enginer will max this line because its more viable to run for modified amunition then to max the tool trait line for bonus crit damage. Its just normal that at this point player would rather turn on a simplyer profession such as warrior or guardian for the purpose of taking the easy way out of an overwhelming class complexity.

Even if builds do are posted on the forum how much of the community do you think even consult it before making and building their character up? Id say a good part of the player dont even use the forum to begin with.

So…are you talking about Bomb/Nade engi or Decap engi? As an engineer player myself, I’m not quite sure which build you’re referring to; although it sounds like Decap engi.

With that build in particular, I’m presuming, say, Accelerant Packed Turrets, 15+ in Tools for Inertial Converter, Automated response as capstone traits, with Protection Injection and Invigorating Speed, Speedy Kits as necessary traits. The remaining 15 points then go on to define the rest of the build; but usually I’ve seen 10 into Firearms for Hair Trigger and 5 more into Tools for Power Wrench.

Weapon is Rifle usually with Leeching Sigil, Utilities are Healing Turret, Elixir R, Flamethrower, Toolkit. Amulet is probably Soldiers with Clerics Jewel or just Soldier’s.

• Some variations drop Healing Turret for Med Kit in which case the 10 in Explosives is shifted elsewhere, like Inventions for Reinforced Shield.

The problem here is that many of the associated traits are general utility. Most individual traits can be used in either Power or Condi, DPS or tanky builds. So hitting them will nerf Engineer as a whole. There are 2 particular traits that could do with some looking at:

Problem traits include Accelerant Packed Turrets with its 300(?) range Knockback and Automated Response. Inertial Converter might be part of the problem but it’s not the problem.

• As for Automated Response in particular, the counterplay is to bring 1 extra Power class when the Engineer comes. But I do agree that the trait needs to be changed to provide some counterplay instead of being a hard counter.
• Accelerant Packed Turrets had never been taken until it was shifted from Master to Adept. 300 unit Knockback is annoying, for sure. I’d rather the Knockback be less if the damage increase from detonating Turrets were increased to compensate.
• As for Elixir R, it was nerfed (again) recently. That said, the issue at fault here is Inertial Converter for the reset. I’ve yet to see a good suggestion for a useful change here, perhaps you can suggest one.

>>>Most people run enginer because they want to run (yes you see it coming) guns or turret spammers. Few if anything cares about the bombs or the grenade gimmicks they want ’’Guns’’ or automatic turret bunkers. While enginer pistol is interesting for cond damage thief vastly outdamage the enginer in the spec, as for where rifle stands warrior long proven that sniper assasination is their domain and not the one of enginer wich actualy use its rifle more like a shotgun then a sniper rifle.

Well, I don’t agree on this point, all the engi I see don’t play this way, they all play with bombs and boots and all things like that, I almost never see an engi like you discribe it.

Ive seen it a lot when the class was played in beta and release days (god knows there were way more enginer at release then now). The majority of them didnt even care to run bomb kit or grenade they ran for guns and turret because blowing stuff up didnt appeal to most.

Truth is ive seen more turret or gun enginer in pve then ive seen actual meta bombs or grenade around. Altrought i do see a enginer from time to time its nothing compared to the number of random stuff you had at release. Most of those nogooder enginer switched back to another less ’’complicated’’ class.

Why do you think today the class is so rare in pve?

MonMalthias.4763:

So…are you talking about Bomb/Nade engi or Decap engi? As an engineer player myself, I’m not quite sure which build you’re referring to; although it sounds like Decap engi.

Well, actually I don’t really see the difference, yes I talk about decap engineer, but most of the time they play with bomb kit, no?

Anataboshi.9842:

MonMalthias.4763:

So…are you talking about Bomb/Nade engi or Decap engi? As an engineer player myself, I’m not quite sure which build you’re referring to; although it sounds like Decap engi.

Well, actually I don’t really see the difference, yes I talk about decap engineer, but most of the time they play with bomb kit, no?

They are totally different specs.

Decap engi uses bombs for the control aspects.

Bomb/Nade engi uses bombs for the AoE damage.

Yeah, well then i’m talking about decap engi anyway.

Anataboshi.9842:

Yeah, well then i’m talking about decap engi anyway.

Go for a necro 30/20/0/0/20. Take carrion or rampager and you kill him before he is able to decap the point.

or go MM necro

No but, my point is not to take something to counter it, and not have fun because I play something that I don’t like. I want to be able to kill them, or at least to fight them without being controlled all the time.

What I complain about is the gameplay of controlling the opponent, and running everywhere AND winning, it’s really not fun, it breaks all the fun of playing.

Anataboshi.9842:

>>>Most people run enginer because they want to run (yes you see it coming) guns or turret spammers. Few if anything cares about the bombs or the grenade gimmicks they want ’’Guns’’ or automatic turret bunkers. While enginer pistol is interesting for cond damage thief vastly outdamage the enginer in the spec, as for where rifle stands warrior long proven that sniper assasination is their domain and not the one of enginer wich actualy use its rifle more like a shotgun then a sniper rifle.

Well, I don’t agree on this point, all the engi I see don’t play this way, they all play with bombs and boots and all things like that, I almost never see an engi like you discribe it.

In that case are you talking about Bomb/Nade?
This would be (usually) Pistol/Shield, Healing Turret, Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Elixir S with:

• 30 in Explosives with Forceful Explosives, Incendiary Powder, Grenadier, with Grenadier as capstone trait
• 5 in Firearms for Sharpshooter
• 20 in Alchemy for Invigorating Speed and Protection Injection (I have seen people run Backpack Regenerator instead)
• 15 in Tools for Speedy Kits and Inertial Converter
• Usually Rabid Jewel with Rabid Amulet, Sigil of Battle (I think EU runs Geomancy) and Accuracy; then Undead runes or Adventurer Runes.
• Variations might be taking the 5 points from Firearms and Tools to put into Alchemy so both Backpack Regenerator and Protection Injection can be taken.

This meta build brings strong AOE Condition cleave, covers its own DPS conditions, has strong downstate control for teamfights, and brings a ton of Combo Fields for maximum support potential.

• As for “problem” traits the main one here is Incendiary Powder; however, it must be noted that Burning is the only strong “DPS” condition Engineer has – All other conditions that Engineer generates is to cover Burning. Steel Packed Powder in particular gives free Vulnerability to Grenades which makes Incendiary Powder cover itself.
• Engineer lacks strong Bleed stacking outside of Crit-procs; although Bleeding does contribute a significant of condition pressure to Bomb/Nade Engineer.

As for nerfs to Incendiary Powder, proposals I’ve seen are:

• For IP To proc burning on Confusion – Does not change meta Bomb/Nade build, increases skill floor, eliminates reliance on Precision
• For IP To proc Burning after Toolbelt Skill is used – Changes meta Bomb/Nade build to shift into Rifle Turret for 100% Burning uptime. Big nerf to Bomb/Nade survivability and Down State control. Will make more Engineers take Shrapnel over IP, but doesn’t address crit-proc problem. This will end Bomb/Nade as we know it currently.
• For IP to proc Burning on Blast Finishers. Does not change meta Bomb/Nade build, increases skill floor, makes Burning procs melee only which increases risk. May shift Engineers using IP as supplemental damage on Power builds away from IP.

The problem here is that most the above proposals (except the first) will crush Engineer’s potential Burning uptime and make its balance very tenuous. An indirect nerf may instead be to hit Steel Packed Powder ; which provides “junk” Vulnerability stacks to cover Burning.

• Nerfing Steel Packed Powder to only give Vulnerability on skills 2-5 of Grenade and Bomb Kit leaves Bomb/Nade intact, increases skill floor (very marginally_).

The problem with Incendiary Powder is that nerfing it isn’t as simple as Dhuumfire being shifted to Death Shroud for Necromancer. Engineer is a complex profession with the best builds dishing out hybrid condi/power damage, and it has its counters like Condi Necro or Warrior (current meta builds like Hambow) due to weak condi cleanse and (near zero) Stability Uptime. Feel free to make your own proposal to weaken Bomb/Nade without taking it entirely out of the meta.

Decap engi wins against nothing. He does less damage than a bunker guardian. If you lose to a decap engi it is your fault, yours alone.

@Lupanic: To be fair, decap engi is pretty annoying to fight against without high Stability uptime (and I’m talking Warrior level Stability) and enough condition clear to get rid of Immobilise when you need.

I could definitely see classes like Elementalist (with obvious reasons), Thief, Ranger (a common backpoint holder) having trouble; whilst Guardian and Warrior will laugh and proceed to beat the Engi at his own game or just kill him (if Warrior). As for Mesmer, depends on the Build. Shatter definitely has an easy time beating Decap engi, while PU has no business trying to hold back point so that’s kind of a moot point.

Really decap engi is only a problem if:

• Your team doesn’t rotate smartly (probably common in soloqueue). You’ll need a Power class. If neither class at backpoint has Stability and/or burst damage, you’re going to have a Bad Time™
• Your team doesn’t have a Mesmer with Portal
• Your team doesn’t have a Thief

If your team doesn’t have a Mesmer, or Thief, then it’s all in the smart rotations. Decap engi is massively vulnerable to burst damage or smart condition burst. I say smart because you can take an Engineer to ~33% HP, then Condi Burst to get past Automated Response. Otherwise, you’re stuck.

And as I’ve mentioned earlier, Automated Response does deserve looking at, but I haven’t seen many smart proposals so far.

It means that a decap engi is able to decap points? What’s wrong with that?

If you attack a point and a guardian is sitting on it. Do you go to the forum and write guardian is sitting on a point it takes a long time to kill him?

If a thief decaps the point 10 times in a tPvP match because he moves from A to B do you go to the forum?

If a warrior attacks someone and kills every class in 1on1 or a PU mesmer do you go to the forum?

No because it is normal that a class has its role. Decap Engi is able to decap.

So, following your logic, if someone invented an “Immortal Warrior” build, and that he was really immortal, you would say it’s normal, just because it’s the name of the “immortal warrior”?

I don’t think that just because you name something, it makes it legitimate to exist.

Decap engi is excellent. If ANet can get their game together and make elementalist viable, I think you’ll see some good play/counterplay between engi and ele.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Decap engi is excellent. If ANet can get their game together and make elementalist viable, I think you’ll see some good play/counterplay between engi and ele.

You’re talking the Elementalist with very low Stability Uptime, right? The one with 90 seconds on Armour of Earth or 2 seconds every 10 seconds on Earth Attunement with Rock Solid? D/D Elementalist is going to have a hard time against decap engi; but I do concede that S/X Fresh Air burst will probably delete Engi easily.

Anataboshi.9842:

So, following your logic, if someone invented an “Immortal Warrior” build, and that he was really immortal, you would say it’s normal, just because it’s the name of the “immortal warrior”?

I don’t think that just because you name something, it makes it legitimate to exist.

Come on. A decap engineer is easy to counter. Sure for the last 3 months the spirit ranger was sitting on the close point and nobody could decap until the ranger died twice because of his elite. Now the engi is able to decap the point and the world ends?

What is your problem with the Engi? I mean ranger, engi, ele and thief are not able to bunker the point against this engi. But guardian, good warrior are able to stay on the point. Warrior, necro, mesmer and good thief are able to kill him in a very short time.

so what is so OP? he is able to decap the point against a ranger. Is that the big deal?

Carighan.6758:

I guess after they’re no longer the rarest class by a fair margin?

Engi has never been a bad class in pvp. If it has been rare in the game, that’s probably because it’s thematically so out of place. Grenades, turrets, flame throwers and elixir (wtf???) guns…

I don’t find decap engie to be op at all, it’s the bomb/nade bruiser Engie that’s over the top. Everything in that build is spamming AoE to no end while retaining a lot of health, armor and mobility.

The problem is that bunker engi is probably the easiest class to play right now. A good engi can hold a point against a 2v1 indefinitely.

Anataboshi.9842:

Carighan.6758:

I was talking about anything but sPvP.
Engineers have tons of issues. Lack of scaling on kits, lack of AI on turrets, bugged mechanics, broken traits, buggy elites, broken elites.
Add to that a relatively complex class system and it’s easy to see why people drop their Engineers early and often.

Then why did you even answer that? I asked for a nerf in sPvP and that’s all, nothing else.

Because nerfs for the sake of sPvP almost always mean nerfs in every game mode?

It’s only certain engi builds that might be a bit too strong like bunker builds. But I really haven’t noticed that they’re harder to kill than a guardian bunker. Or maybe it’s because I play engineer so much that I know how to beat one as well.

And I’m not defending the build because I play one, quite the opposite. I kind of want it nerfed because I do think that it’s a bit too effective requiring relatively lower skill level. But then again, there are plenty of other strong builds with little to no skill level involved in other classes as well (i.e. MM necros, spirit rangers, etc etc)

Anataboshi.9842:

>>>Most people run enginer because they want to run (yes you see it coming) guns or turret spammers. Few if anything cares about the bombs or the grenade gimmicks they want ’’Guns’’ or automatic turret bunkers. While enginer pistol is interesting for cond damage thief vastly outdamage the enginer in the spec, as for where rifle stands warrior long proven that sniper assasination is their domain and not the one of enginer wich actualy use its rifle more like a shotgun then a sniper rifle.

Well, I don’t agree on this point, all the engi I see don’t play this way, they all play with bombs and boots and all things like that, I almost never see an engi like you discribe it.

I play engi exactly like this but the current meta, balancing and bugs compel me into swapping to might stacks + kits like everyone else already did which totally kills the fun.

Seriously, these days/weeks, I’ve been seing warrior all the time in PvP, with a build only based on running, and controlling, and it really is the most annoying thing i’ve ever met, if he plays a little bit well you get controlled all the time, knockback, immobilized and every other thing that everyone likes.

It’s really just unsportsmanlike, it takes off all the fun of fighting, and it’s just so hard to kill due to all the healing, blocking, running, serioulsy this is the biggest trash in this game in PvP, and it makes me rage all the time. This is the only thing that makes me rage in PvP, because it’s just not fun to meet.

So, when is the nerf comming?

fixed

It IS pretty funny that he’s complaining about seeing an engi all the time when warriors are clearly far more common. As for “unfun” CC, being knocked around by a hammer isn’t fun either.

Sizer.5632:

But who knows, maybe the devs will get griefed by an one while on their warriors, and the next week engies will be knocked down to the level of eles.

I would not be shocked at all to find out this is how they “balance” the game what so ever.

isolatedchimp.2510:

But then again, there are plenty of other strong builds with little to no skill level involved in other classes as well (i.e. MM necros, spirit rangers, etc etc)

Warrior. Any build comes to mind as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

isolatedchimp.2510:

But then again, there are plenty of other strong builds with little to no skill level involved in other classes as well (i.e. MM necros, spirit rangers, etc etc)

Warrior. Any build comes to mind as well.

LOl, I have to stop spanking you so much in-game. The sheer amount of hateful garbage you spew out to anything related to warrior is gaining epic proportions. I mean, here you are in a thread about engineers, and can only spew that hateful crap. Sad really….

Engineers are the strongest PvP profession.

Axialbloom.8109:

Engineers are the strongest PvP profession.

That’s balanced through how anything else is broken for engineers atm ^^

Escadin.9482:

Axialbloom.8109:

Engineers are the strongest PvP profession.

That’s balanced through how anything else is broken for engineers atm ^^

Every class is broken according to these forums…

Axialbloom.8109:

Engineers are the strongest PvP profession.

As an Engineer myself, I actually partially agree with this. Engineers are a jack of all trades profession, but when you really dedicate a build as an Engineer to one specific aspect, you can excel at that role; case in point here being Decap Engi being totally dedicated to CC and survivability.

• If you’re willing to go full man-mode then there’s obviously the Static Discharge build with no condition clear, no escapes, poor mobility and tons and tons of terrible, terrible damage
• The obvious Bomb/Nade which spews out hilarious amounts of AOE conditions with a spare slot for down state control – Though this build is the least specialised and has a just enough of a little bit of everything.

Which really sums up the Engineer at it’s strongest – just enough of a little bit of everything. Nerfing one specific aspect of Engineer hits all aspects.

This was why the best generalist traits like:

• Kit Refinement , (Old version)
• Invigorating Speed and Speedy Kits , (Old Version)
• Incendiary Powder , (Old Version) – have all come under the most flak.

Now, given all this, which particular aspect of, say, decap engi or bomb/nade Engi should be nerfed? I’ve already mentioned Accelerant Packed Turrets and Automated Response; yet all I see are extremely general, _vague posts that refer to some nebulous all in one, 30/30/30/30/30 with 5 Utility slots Engineer.

Do your research before calling for a nerf, and next time, be more specific.

The thing with this build is, its incredibly specialized. Where else would it work but a gamemode that revolves around small teams, fighting over who gets to stand on a fairly small capture point?

It doesnt work in PvE and it doesnt work in WvW, and when arenanet gets around to adding more gamemodes for spvp (which they are working on) it will not work in those either.

But here is how arenanet is going to deal with this. They are going to nerf engineers. And not just this build, and not just for spvp, oh no. Every single engineer build is going to feel the nerf, even in WvW and PvE where Engineers are underwhelming and poorly represented.

Funny thing is, if arenanet wouldve gotten around to dropping this stupid e-sports dream sooner and added more gamemodes to spvp, we wouldnt even be having this discussion right now.

• Engineers have been getting nerfs the last few patches and that theme continues with the upcoming “feature patch”.

• The only major issue with Engineers at the moment is Automated Response (condi immunity). Immunity skills need to change across the board however.

• For strategy vs Engineer, try CC or condi. Most have little to no cleanse and little to no stun breaks.

• For your typical MMO forumer gluteal soreness, apply cream to the affected area.

Finally and most importantly, do please in future play the class your are intending to whinge about, helps to gain perspective. Typically you’ll learn that you were wrong/playing poorly.
We’d get so much less “Nerf X” kitten-posting if people actually made the effort to try what they assume is over powered.

Engineer should not be nerfed, it should get buffed, the same reason I can say that Warrior should be nerfed , guardian etc. If You can not play then it is your problem…. Eng has pathetic dmg (just look at traits) our only response to your build can be decap etc, nothing wrong with that…