Guild Wars 2

Kittens really have become majorly OP, haven’t they?

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

ADD a skill .. maybe mesmer ..

Explode Boons… That destroys boons on target dealing damage for each boon destroyed.

Nerf the kitten celestial/battle not the class.
Also can we get some fire/air sigil nerfs for thief?

They don’t separate modes and don’t have too,conquest is the only guilty stop going around the obvious answer. Not much counters to cele are meta because of it,turrets are strong because of it. Is there a blindness outbreak?

2 birds 1 stone, simple and efficient. #endthosethreads

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

bluberblasen.9684:

and again ..
nerf might from 35 to 25.
nerf cele amulet

dont nerf the ele ..

Yes lets nerf all other specs that also run this, how about we nerf eles without screwing other professions?

How about instead of nerfing eles we fix the shortcomings of other classes.

or we can nerf eles while fixing the shortcomings of other classes.

So ele then becomes worse than other classes?

Just to be clear here, it seems what you’re after isn’t balance. It’s for the destruction of a class and the fun of the people who enjoy it, right?

Please explain the logic of simultaneously nerfing a class and making all the other classes stronger at the same time?

Booms.2594:

Aggrostemma.1703:

I don’t PvP much but to defend the elementalist:

apart of PvP nobody runs full celestial elementalis. In PvE you either go for full zerk or zerk+celestial. In wvw… same but sometimes knight-soldier+celestial. Full celestial is IMHO not viable anywhere else but in PvP where you cannot mix gear. You have no choice.

Full celestial elementalist basically does not exists outside of the PvP (yeah I know some of you runs them but it’s still not common and FAR from OP).
D/D ele by itself is not OP by any means. So it must be the PvP Celestial amulett, strength runes and the insane might stacking … as mentioned above….

Just my two cents….

i dont pve much but i thnk its fair to say no one cares about pve and wvw here

And yet the pve and wvw players (who make up the majority of the player base) have to deal with the nerfs.

I care about pve and wvw. So it’s not fair to say.

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

There you are again, talking about dueling servers. You’re talking about a niche “game mode”, using the term extremely losely, inside a niche game mode. It’s hardly unbalanced if a class has a strong representation in a game mode that doesn’t have a strong representation of the player base.

#Balanced

Lifestealer.4910:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

Warrior nerf is fine, don’t know where all the warrior nerf to garbo statement come from. D/D ele on the other hand is too good at everything, every top team wants em and everyone and their mother can play them bcuz of how stupidly easy and OP it is.

Duel servers are infested with d/d ele, top level teams are all infested with d/d eles, bunker guardian made useless bcuz of d/d ele. What more evidence do yo uneed?

That argument sounds suspiciously familiar. Also all your evidence isn’t really evidence at all, because real evidence is backed up by fact which you haven’t presented any, so yeah… And really? Duel servers? Good evidence you got there.

And warriors are garbage compared to what they were before. Because people like you always complained about how they were so amazingly good at everything yet in reality they were only good at some things.

But I digress, it’s easier to complain on a forum about how something is op instead of trying to adapt your gameplay and making yourself better.

warriors are only garbage in the hands of garbage players, all they did was raise the skill ceiling a bit on the class. Also if you actually read carefully i said they are rampant in duel servers while also outclassing bunker guardian, you know the class and spec that is designed for team support only. Is it that hard to understand?

A class that trumps all in 1v1, thats why everyone plays it in duel server while also having the best team support in the game. What weakness does it have again?… shatter mesmer?.. please, if i hear someone say that i probably die from laughter.

Your problem is that you think other people besides you care about duel servers. I’m not sure why you keep bringing them up. And you still haven’t shown any evidence to support your claims, either.

All top NA team had subbed out bunker guardian for d/d ele not evident enough?.. i thought this was obvious.

inb4 hur dur that isn’t evidence

Oh, right, cause guardians were op as well. A balanced class replacing a balanced class? Ok?

It takes a class that is stronger than “balanced” to replace a balanced class within the same role or else why even replace it.

Do you even know balance bro?

What you’re asking for is not balance, just so we’re clear. You’ve shown your bias.

I’d bet a dollar that you were one of the people constantly kittening about warriors before they got nerfed into the ground, too.

Dee Dee cele ele elementalist is Opee. Pls Nerf.

Give ele our pet and in exchange, Rangers get Attunements.

Here, balanced.

Prysin.8542:

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

You see, this the problem. They don’t want to do that.

When Anet does balancing updates, they’ll 99.9% of the time do the same thing for every game mode, even if it’s just changes to coefficients. This means it’s a nightmare to fix anything because you just break it in another game mode.

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

Warrior nerf is fine, don’t know where all the warrior nerf to garbo statement come from. D/D ele on the other hand is too good at everything, every top team wants em and everyone and their mother can play them bcuz of how stupidly easy and OP it is.

Duel servers are infested with d/d ele, top level teams are all infested with d/d eles, bunker guardian made useless bcuz of d/d ele. What more evidence do yo uneed?

That argument sounds suspiciously familiar. Also all your evidence isn’t really evidence at all, because real evidence is backed up by fact which you haven’t presented any, so yeah… And really? Duel servers? Good evidence you got there.

And warriors are garbage compared to what they were before. Because people like you always complained about how they were so amazingly good at everything yet in reality they were only good at some things.

But I digress, it’s easier to complain on a forum about how something is op instead of trying to adapt your gameplay and making yourself better.

warriors are only garbage in the hands of garbage players, all they did was raise the skill ceiling a bit on the class. Also if you actually read carefully i said they are rampant in duel servers while also outclassing bunker guardian, you know the class and spec that is designed for team support only. Is it that hard to understand?

A class that trumps all in 1v1, thats why everyone plays it in duel server while also having the best team support in the game. What weakness does it have again?… shatter mesmer?.. please, if i hear someone say that i probably die from laughter.

Your problem is that you think other people besides you care about duel servers. I’m not sure why you keep bringing them up. And you still haven’t shown any evidence to support your claims, either.

All top NA team had subbed out bunker guardian for d/d ele not evident enough?.. i thought this was obvious.

inb4 hur dur that isn’t evidence

Oh, right, cause guardians were op as well. A balanced class replacing a balanced class? Ok?

It takes a class that is stronger than “balanced” to replace a balanced class within the same role or else why even replace it.

Do you even know balance bro?

What you’re asking for is not balance, just so we’re clear. You’ve shown your bias.

I’d bet a dollar that you were one of the people constantly kittening about warriors before they got nerfed into the ground, too.

Are you really one of those people that think warrior was balanced before nerfs?.. your right in that i was advocating for warrior nerfs. As a warrior main myself, it was pretty obvious that the class was above “balanced”. but hey you can keep pretending warrior was nerfed into the ground, it just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. The “nerfs” to warrior, i don’t even notice it 90% of the time, if you aren’t kittened and don’t miss like all your burst you still able to beat pretty much every profession.

And if guardian isn’t balanced and ele is replacing them. Wouldn’t make them even more imbalanced?.. Do you even know why bunker guardian is all getting replaced in teams?.. its because everything “support” related bunker guardian does, a d/d ele does equally good or better while outputting way more damage and have alot more mobility.

At this point I still don’t know why i reply to you and the OP when both of you clearly don’t know kitten about the game.

well.. i can support a wow approach to this situation.. adding more game modes/maps that arent considered the “esports” modes.

like wsg.. av.. eots.. etc..

i understand that there is an orb on one map.. and treb/skyhammer/ blah blah.. but they are all still conquest.
just to make pvp fun.

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

Warrior nerf is fine, don’t know where all the warrior nerf to garbo statement come from. D/D ele on the other hand is too good at everything, every top team wants em and everyone and their mother can play them bcuz of how stupidly easy and OP it is.

Duel servers are infested with d/d ele, top level teams are all infested with d/d eles, bunker guardian made useless bcuz of d/d ele. What more evidence do yo uneed?

That argument sounds suspiciously familiar. Also all your evidence isn’t really evidence at all, because real evidence is backed up by fact which you haven’t presented any, so yeah… And really? Duel servers? Good evidence you got there.

And warriors are garbage compared to what they were before. Because people like you always complained about how they were so amazingly good at everything yet in reality they were only good at some things.

But I digress, it’s easier to complain on a forum about how something is op instead of trying to adapt your gameplay and making yourself better.

warriors are only garbage in the hands of garbage players, all they did was raise the skill ceiling a bit on the class. Also if you actually read carefully i said they are rampant in duel servers while also outclassing bunker guardian, you know the class and spec that is designed for team support only. Is it that hard to understand?

A class that trumps all in 1v1, thats why everyone plays it in duel server while also having the best team support in the game. What weakness does it have again?… shatter mesmer?.. please, if i hear someone say that i probably die from laughter.

Your problem is that you think other people besides you care about duel servers. I’m not sure why you keep bringing them up. And you still haven’t shown any evidence to support your claims, either.

All top NA team had subbed out bunker guardian for d/d ele not evident enough?.. i thought this was obvious.

inb4 hur dur that isn’t evidence

Oh, right, cause guardians were op as well. A balanced class replacing a balanced class? Ok?

It takes a class that is stronger than “balanced” to replace a balanced class within the same role or else why even replace it.

Do you even know balance bro?

What you’re asking for is not balance, just so we’re clear. You’ve shown your bias.

I’d bet a dollar that you were one of the people constantly kittening about warriors before they got nerfed into the ground, too.

Are you really one of those people that think warrior was balanced before nerfs?.. your right in that i was advocating for warrior nerfs. As a warrior main myself, it was pretty obvious that the class was above “balanced”. but hey you can keep pretending warrior was nerfed into the ground, it just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. The “nerfs” to warrior, i don’t even notice it 90% of the time, if you aren’t kittened and don’t miss like all your burst you still able to beat pretty much every profession.

And if guardian isn’t balanced and ele is replacing them. Wouldn’t make them even more imbalanced?.. Do you even know why bunker guardian is all getting replaced in teams?.. its because everything “support” related bunker guardian does, a d/d ele does equally good or better while outputting way more damage and have alot more mobility.

At this point I still don’t know why i reply to you and the OP when both of you clearly don’t know kitten about the game.

Explain to my why the absolute necessity for a guardian on every team is balanced, and when they get replaced, it’s now imbalanced? Haha… The double standards are strong in you!

The Elementalist has been a highly problematic class for a good portion of the game’s history, when it comes to balance. At the game’s start, the class was misunderstood by the vast majority of the playerbase (like all classes), though players eventually began to understand the power of the "tanky-DPS’ Ele, and Bunker-Damage Arcana-Water builds soon proliferated through the mists. The class remained largely dominant over the PvP meta until patches of the summer of 2013, when a multitude of changes were made:
-5 second ICD to Cleansing Water
-18% nerf to Signet of Restoration
-Doubling of Ride the Lightning’s CD
-Mist Form changed to no longer allow Heals or Utility skills while active
-Removal of stunbreaks on Cleansing Fire and Lightning Flash

These, along with later buffs to Necromancers and Warriors made the Elementalist outright garbage and unplayable in PvP for an entire year.

Later on, in the recent April patch and beyond, Dhuumfire was nerfed, Warriors were nerfed, Double-Sigils were made a thing (Battle+Doom, for example), Strength Runes were buffed, and Celestial Amulet was buffed. On top of all of these things, the ICD on Cleansing Water was removed, as was the nerf to Signet of Restoration. The nerfs to RTL and the cantrips stayed. Elementalist went from worst class to best class, and still the class has yet to know a prolonged period of time where it wasn’t either god tier or garbage tier in PvP. This is upsetting, especially to players who want to stick to a class without fear of having it get continuously rocked back and forth on the viability scale due to the flow of patches. It’s also frustrating because it seems the balancers at ANet cannot figure out a way to make an Elementalist that is not:
A. So fragile and easily killed by anything because of its low base stats
B. Outsustains everything around it with constant healing

So here’s the thing, it’s clear that the class is far too strong in PvP. The problem is that despite ANet’s philosophy of gradual changes, they changed a bunch of things at once in both balance patches that made the Ele terrible, and then made it too strong. Celestial Amulet, Strength Runes, Double Sigils, no ICD on Cleansing Water, and a stronger Signet of Restoration are a deadly combination, but it’s difficult to pinpoint which of these things could be changed without risking destroying the whole class all over again because too much was changed at once. There’s also the fact that the changes to other classes such as the Dhuumfire nerf might have actually been the real tipping point that changed the state of the Elementalist. And we’ll probably never know, because changes are made in gigantic bulk, rather than the gradual process over time that ANet promised us.

So here’s the problem with the Ele – it’s a class that is highly influenced by changes in the game, due to its low base stats but high return on using those stats. Celestial Amulet makes a huge difference, as does a stronger Signet of Restoration. But would one be too strong without the other? It’s hard to say, because they were both changed at the same time, along with a million other changes to other classes.

This is my plea to the balancers. We all know that the Elementalist is next on the chopping block for nerfs over the course of the next balance patches. As it should be. But do us a favor, and change things slowly, emphasizing re-examining changes you’ve made to gear (Amulets, Sigils, etc.) before possibly re-destroying Signet of Restoration (which, in my opinion, is the real heart of the Elementalist’s viability, much the same way that Healing Signet keeps the Warrior viable). Change things slowly, rather than piling on a bunch of balance changes into one patch like you guys have done in the past.

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

fellyn.5083:

Lifestealer.4910:

Warrior nerf is fine, don’t know where all the warrior nerf to garbo statement come from. D/D ele on the other hand is too good at everything, every top team wants em and everyone and their mother can play them bcuz of how stupidly easy and OP it is.

Duel servers are infested with d/d ele, top level teams are all infested with d/d eles, bunker guardian made useless bcuz of d/d ele. What more evidence do yo uneed?

That argument sounds suspiciously familiar. Also all your evidence isn’t really evidence at all, because real evidence is backed up by fact which you haven’t presented any, so yeah… And really? Duel servers? Good evidence you got there.

And warriors are garbage compared to what they were before. Because people like you always complained about how they were so amazingly good at everything yet in reality they were only good at some things.

But I digress, it’s easier to complain on a forum about how something is op instead of trying to adapt your gameplay and making yourself better.

warriors are only garbage in the hands of garbage players, all they did was raise the skill ceiling a bit on the class. Also if you actually read carefully i said they are rampant in duel servers while also outclassing bunker guardian, you know the class and spec that is designed for team support only. Is it that hard to understand?

A class that trumps all in 1v1, thats why everyone plays it in duel server while also having the best team support in the game. What weakness does it have again?… shatter mesmer?.. please, if i hear someone say that i probably die from laughter.

Your problem is that you think other people besides you care about duel servers. I’m not sure why you keep bringing them up. And you still haven’t shown any evidence to support your claims, either.

All top NA team had subbed out bunker guardian for d/d ele not evident enough?.. i thought this was obvious.

inb4 hur dur that isn’t evidence

Oh, right, cause guardians were op as well. A balanced class replacing a balanced class? Ok?

It takes a class that is stronger than “balanced” to replace a balanced class within the same role or else why even replace it.

Do you even know balance bro?

What you’re asking for is not balance, just so we’re clear. You’ve shown your bias.

I’d bet a dollar that you were one of the people constantly kittening about warriors before they got nerfed into the ground, too.

The “nerfs” to warrior, i don’t even notice it 90% of the time, if you aren’t kittened and don’t miss like all your burst you still able to beat pretty much every profession.

Okay then, so you shouldn’t have any problems with eles.

Either they’re god tier and can’t be beaten or they can be, which is it? You really need to make up your mind.

One minute you claim eles are unbeatable and so strong and are everywhere in duel servers the next you say you don’t have any trouble beating pretty much every profession as a warrior.

Both can’t be true.

No class is OP. Vids or it didn’t happen.

There are again some builds/Proffs that have the upper hand or at least decent chance of winning vs ele.
But , really why the uck every mongoloid is asking for a nerf that would not even be justified in a Deathmatch plot , when we are playing conquest , and the ways to counter the elem exists , its called Dps class + rotations.

Then if you cant find a mesmer that is destroying every other class , ask Drazeh , he will show you that the outcome of the match up are very different of what you think

To the people crying for nerfs, you’re either very new or don’t remember how poorly the Elementalist functioned before the celestial amulet received a buff in stats while might stacking also became much more popular and prevalent. The class itself does not deserve any nerfs. Infact the class has a couple things that actually need improvements, its the gear that may need some change.

I don’t find the D/D Cele Elementalist that op in small scale fights, then again I played one for over 2k hours so I have become very accustom to the methods for countering this class. It really just comes down to when you apply conditions and if you have a fast enough reaction time. Its very possible to dodge the burning speed and the burning speed + Lightning flash combo every time an Elementalist uses it, this would be their primary damage source aside from other burning sources and lightning whips.

Even though I don’t find the current d/d cele build too over the top, I STILL currently hate how the d/d Celestial Elementalist functions while I’m playing my Ele. My personal choice in play style revolves around a more glassy ninja man mode type strategy. This is probably why I enjoy dueling so much with Zerker amulet, Zerker amulet works so well in 1v1 for D/D Ele if you have a great reaction time and understand the classes you are fighting. Its a kitten shame the zerker amulet doesn’t work so well for d/d while in high skill level matchmaking. I believe most people like myself feel sort of forced to use the celestial amulet since other stat combos don’t seem to cut the cake in real SPvP matches.

Rather than nerfing the Elementalist, I believe they should revamp churning earth so it becomes a more viable skill in small fights, remove and replace the water 3 heal trait(Something other than a heal), and then buff the elementalist’s other heals accordingly so we don’t see much of a difference with the water 3 trait heal gone. This would probably call for a revamp to the focus weapon, but then again who doesn’t want to see this weapon get a little love?

Now after all this I’d say its time to look into all the current amulets in SPvP and rescale their values so that one amulet does not seemingly rule over all others. (I feel like might duration on runes could receive a small nerf as well.) If the defensive stats were toned down on the celestial amulet(while the offensive stats were increased) I think it would make a lot of people very happy since most people don’t like fighting a bunker Elementalist for several years before the fight comes to an end.

Oh and all this talk about cele d/d ele being god tier in 1v1, I don’t think so, almost every class has a specific build that can potentially wreck a d/d celestial elementalist 1v1. Learn to BUILD guys! gosh!

Kako.1930:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.

One word. Myopic.

If a minor change to 1 amulet would make it useless to 6 other professions, it’s probably useless to those professions already (hence, why they aren’t in the meta). I don’t think they would nerf it that bad anyways though.

Still, I don’t think celestial itself is the problem. Even though the ferocity change was bundled in with all the changes to runes and sigils, I think the bigger problem is with the might stacking buffs.

I don’t agree. The problem is with boon removal, corruption, theft and boon hate. Might as a boon has the highest priority for builds that can successfully stack and keep 17+. It’s natural predator/balance/check is the above stated counters. However removal-corruption-theft-hate do not prioritize might. If you successfully remove it then awesome. You have 33% at best and most likely 14% or lower chance to remove. If i corrupt 21 stacks then only one stack of it becomes corrupted, the remaining 20 remain unaffected. Boon theft carries the same issue as removal, there is no way to prioritize might. Boon hate only registers unique boons. So 25 stacks of might will only produce 3% extra damage. If we looked at removal-theft-corruption-hate as a tool that affects every stack of boons, then it becomes overwhelming obvious that as (for example) a ele or engi develop in strength with might stacking, by proxy anyone using one of these counters also gains in strength. Reducing might only weakens engi/ele in PvE where might stacking is not an issue. This measure addresses the PvP scene. The more you stack, the stronger people who run anti boon tactics become against your rinse-repeat tactic of might stacking. This would also work for individuals who run runes of strength-sigil of battle/strength and keep 8-14 stacks of might and not much else..the stronger they become, the stronger your anti boon counters also become creating opportunity moments I.E Do I wait and see if they stack more?..or do i (insert anti boon skill here) and snare them first to ensure it doesn’t not get blocked/dodged/reflected.

Neko.9021:

emphasizing re-examining changes you’ve made to gear (Amulets, Sigils, etc.)

yup. There are other builds out there besides that stupid faceroll build. They’re barely viable but please don’t take them completely away from eles that don’t want to jump the fotm train by nerfing class-spells or traits.

btw: you forgot some nerfs ^^
nerfs to traits like Zephyr’s Boon, Healing Ripple, Bountiful Power, Soothing Disruption, Renewing Stamina and some tier-changes for traits + Frost-Aura.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Anyway… what about the OP Bearbow rangers? Do you manage them?

They OP only at hotjoin and sometimes SoloQ

The problem lies not in class changes though, but just in might stacking builds + Runes of Strength. Frankly, it affects more than sPvP.

Prysin.8542:

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

These seem very well thought out changes.

Add in some reduction to might stacking and things are looking a lot better.

Relentliss.2170:

Prysin.8542:

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

These seem very well thought out changes.

Add in some reduction to might stacking and things are looking a lot better.

the might stacking isnt the issue. Might stacking is quite equal for all classes, it’s all about finding a efficient rotation.

The issue with DD Cele is Healing vs Armor vs Damage.
DD Cele has (due to might stacking) an enormous DPS output, which would be justified if it had LESS sustain. But it has too much sustain and too much damage. Now nerfing the might stacking will be a universal nerf which will drag down the other 7 classes, making ele equally strong as the other classes would STILL have too low damage to shut down the healing.

Any build that allows for 80% of total HP being healed in less then 4 seconds on a 15 second rotation can not have the damage output of a PVT geared WvW warrior with full stacks. This is unbalanced.

To control the ele, you need to choke the healing. Only Ranger, Engineer and necro can efficiently apply poison fast enough and long enough to choke the healing, this means 2 other classes cannot apply it fast enough, 2 can not apply at all (doom sigil not counted).
This means ele almost hard-counters 4/8 classes with one build and give 3/8 classes massive issues…. that is not right.

Shave the heal, equalize the sustain with the damage.

Just an FYI, the last time they nerfed the ele’s sustain, the class took a 1-way ticket to the pvp trash-bin for over year. There isn’t really a tourney-viable build for ele other than the one that just goes “let’s take every survival mechanism we can and pack it into one build.” Nerfing the survivability of this spec leaves ele with 0 viable specs….AGAIN. Even the specs that currently need just a little more go right back to the trash bin.

Also, all celestial might-stacking builds are over-performing atm for classes that have access to hybrid damage. Ele just happens to be best at might stacking, due to:
1. Lots of blasts and a fire field
2. Battle sigils used to maximum efficiency (this is shared with the other “top dog” celestial users like engineers and warriors who have frequent weapon-swaps).
3. Doom sigils used to maximum efficiency giving an edge in sustain v. sustain fights.

If you shaved even 6 might stacks from the ele’s capability, it would be right in-line with everyone else. And NO it doesn’t hurt EVERY spec like is claimed if you nerf Battle sigil or doom. Those specs have just as viable alternatives so their power stays relatively constant, and the power RELATIVE to the ele/engie improves.

Prysin.8542:

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

There is already a 10s icd on evasive arcana.

Neko.9021:

The Elementalist has been a highly problematic class for a good portion of the game’s history, when it comes to balance. At the game’s start, the class was misunderstood by the vast majority of the playerbase (like all classes), though players eventually began to understand the power of the "tanky-DPS’ Ele, and Bunker-Damage Arcana-Water builds soon proliferated through the mists. The class remained largely dominant over the PvP meta until patches of the summer of 2013, when a multitude of changes were made:
-5 second ICD to Cleansing Water
-18% nerf to Signet of Restoration
-Doubling of Ride the Lightning’s CD
-Mist Form changed to no longer allow Heals or Utility skills while active
-Removal of stunbreaks on Cleansing Fire and Lightning Flash

These, along with later buffs to Necromancers and Warriors made the Elementalist outright garbage and unplayable in PvP for an entire year.

Later on, in the recent April patch and beyond, Dhuumfire was nerfed, Warriors were nerfed, Double-Sigils were made a thing (Battle+Doom, for example), Strength Runes were buffed, and Celestial Amulet was buffed. On top of all of these things, the ICD on Cleansing Water was removed, as was the nerf to Signet of Restoration. The nerfs to RTL and the cantrips stayed. Elementalist went from worst class to best class, and still the class has yet to know a prolonged period of time where it wasn’t either god tier or garbage tier in PvP. This is upsetting, especially to players who want to stick to a class without fear of having it get continuously rocked back and forth on the viability scale due to the flow of patches. It’s also frustrating because it seems the balancers at ANet cannot figure out a way to make an Elementalist that is not:
A. So fragile and easily killed by anything because of its low base stats
B. Outsustains everything around it with constant healing

So here’s the thing, it’s clear that the class is far too strong in PvP. The problem is that despite ANet’s philosophy of gradual changes, they changed a bunch of things at once in both balance patches that made the Ele terrible, and then made it too strong. Celestial Amulet, Strength Runes, Double Sigils, no ICD on Cleansing Water, and a stronger Signet of Restoration are a deadly combination, but it’s difficult to pinpoint which of these things could be changed without risking destroying the whole class all over again because too much was changed at once. There’s also the fact that the changes to other classes such as the Dhuumfire nerf might have actually been the real tipping point that changed the state of the Elementalist. And we’ll probably never know, because changes are made in gigantic bulk, rather than the gradual process over time that ANet promised us.

So here’s the problem with the Ele – it’s a class that is highly influenced by changes in the game, due to its low base stats but high return on using those stats. Celestial Amulet makes a huge difference, as does a stronger Signet of Restoration. But would one be too strong without the other? It’s hard to say, because they were both changed at the same time, along with a million other changes to other classes.

This is my plea to the balancers. We all know that the Elementalist is next on the chopping block for nerfs over the course of the next balance patches. As it should be. But do us a favor, and change things slowly, emphasizing re-examining changes you’ve made to gear (Amulets, Sigils, etc.) before possibly re-destroying Signet of Restoration (which, in my opinion, is the real heart of the Elementalist’s viability, much the same way that Healing Signet keeps the Warrior viable). Change things slowly, rather than piling on a bunch of balance changes into one patch like you guys have done in the past.

tldr

can you make a tldr for lazy people like me?

sorrychief.2563:

Neko.9021:

The Elementalist has been a highly problematic class for a good portion of the game’s history, when it comes to balance. At the game’s start, the class was misunderstood by the vast majority of the playerbase (like all classes), though players eventually began to understand the power of the "tanky-DPS’ Ele, and Bunker-Damage Arcana-Water builds soon proliferated through the mists. The class remained largely dominant over the PvP meta until patches of the summer of 2013, when a multitude of changes were made:
-5 second ICD to Cleansing Water
-18% nerf to Signet of Restoration
-Doubling of Ride the Lightning’s CD
-Mist Form changed to no longer allow Heals or Utility skills while active
-Removal of stunbreaks on Cleansing Fire and Lightning Flash

These, along with later buffs to Necromancers and Warriors made the Elementalist outright garbage and unplayable in PvP for an entire year.

Later on, in the recent April patch and beyond, Dhuumfire was nerfed, Warriors were nerfed, Double-Sigils were made a thing (Battle+Doom, for example), Strength Runes were buffed, and Celestial Amulet was buffed. On top of all of these things, the ICD on Cleansing Water was removed, as was the nerf to Signet of Restoration. The nerfs to RTL and the cantrips stayed. Elementalist went from worst class to best class, and still the class has yet to know a prolonged period of time where it wasn’t either god tier or garbage tier in PvP. This is upsetting, especially to players who want to stick to a class without fear of having it get continuously rocked back and forth on the viability scale due to the flow of patches. It’s also frustrating because it seems the balancers at ANet cannot figure out a way to make an Elementalist that is not:
A. So fragile and easily killed by anything because of its low base stats
B. Outsustains everything around it with constant healing

So here’s the thing, it’s clear that the class is far too strong in PvP. The problem is that despite ANet’s philosophy of gradual changes, they changed a bunch of things at once in both balance patches that made the Ele terrible, and then made it too strong. Celestial Amulet, Strength Runes, Double Sigils, no ICD on Cleansing Water, and a stronger Signet of Restoration are a deadly combination, but it’s difficult to pinpoint which of these things could be changed without risking destroying the whole class all over again because too much was changed at once. There’s also the fact that the changes to other classes such as the Dhuumfire nerf might have actually been the real tipping point that changed the state of the Elementalist. And we’ll probably never know, because changes are made in gigantic bulk, rather than the gradual process over time that ANet promised us.

So here’s the problem with the Ele – it’s a class that is highly influenced by changes in the game, due to its low base stats but high return on using those stats. Celestial Amulet makes a huge difference, as does a stronger Signet of Restoration. But would one be too strong without the other? It’s hard to say, because they were both changed at the same time, along with a million other changes to other classes.

This is my plea to the balancers. We all know that the Elementalist is next on the chopping block for nerfs over the course of the next balance patches. As it should be. But do us a favor, and change things slowly, emphasizing re-examining changes you’ve made to gear (Amulets, Sigils, etc.) before possibly re-destroying Signet of Restoration (which, in my opinion, is the real heart of the Elementalist’s viability, much the same way that Healing Signet keeps the Warrior viable). Change things slowly, rather than piling on a bunch of balance changes into one patch like you guys have done in the past.

tldr

can you make a tldr for lazy people like me?

ANet’s two major balances around the summer of 2013 and April 2014 brought the ele from overpowered → terrible → overpowered because they made drastic changes both times, rather than small but meaningful changes over time like they promised. My hope is that they change more things over time rather than yearly mega-balance patches like they have been, or the Ele will likely never reach a good middleground of balance.

Prysin.8542:

Relentliss.2170:

Prysin.8542:

Sagat.3285:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elitist.8701:

To prove my point, the other day I decided to become god mode and so I dusted off my ele. I went into the KOTH arena and won every one of my 1v1s for a good 15-16 rounds straight until finally Booms beat me with CELE engi.

#Balanced

You tell me a plan on how to nerf d/d in sPvP without affecting WvW and PvE at all.

Just add new pvp modes. Simple and efficient.

easy:
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Healing Ripple (sPvP only)
Slightly reduce healing power scaling on Cleansing Wave (sPvP only)
Add an internal cooldown of 5 seconds to evasive arcana (sPvP only. This would also bring said skill more in line with other effects on dodge)
reduce vigor duration on Renewing Vigor from 5 to 3 seconds (sPvP only)

Now you still have good sustain. Just not an ridiculous abundance of it.

These seem very well thought out changes.

Add in some reduction to might stacking and things are looking a lot better.

the might stacking isnt the issue. Might stacking is quite equal for all classes, it’s all about finding a efficient rotation.

The issue with DD Cele is Healing vs Armor vs Damage.
DD Cele has (due to might stacking) an enormous DPS output, which would be justified if it had LESS sustain. But it has too much sustain and too much damage. Now nerfing the might stacking will be a universal nerf which will drag down the other 7 classes, making ele equally strong as the other classes would STILL have too low damage to shut down the healing.

Any build that allows for 80% of total HP being healed in less then 4 seconds on a 15 second rotation can not have the damage output of a PVT geared WvW warrior with full stacks. This is unbalanced.

To control the ele, you need to choke the healing. Only Ranger, Engineer and necro can efficiently apply poison fast enough and long enough to choke the healing, this means 2 other classes cannot apply it fast enough, 2 can not apply at all (doom sigil not counted).
This means ele almost hard-counters 4/8 classes with one build and give 3/8 classes massive issues…. that is not right.

Shave the heal, equalize the sustain with the damage.

The logic is strong with this one a very very tiny shave on there healing might be a good option.

Prysin.8542:

the might stacking isnt the issue. Might stacking is quite equal for all classes, it’s all about finding a efficient rotation.

The issue with DD Cele is Healing vs Armor vs Damage.
DD Cele has (due to might stacking) an enormous DPS output, which would be justified if it had LESS sustain. But it has too much sustain and too much damage. Now nerfing the might stacking will be a universal nerf which will drag down the other 7 classes, making ele equally strong as the other classes would STILL have too low damage to shut down the healing.

Any build that allows for 80% of total HP being healed in less then 4 seconds on a 15 second rotation can not have the damage output of a PVT geared WvW warrior with full stacks. This is unbalanced.

To control the ele, you need to choke the healing. Only Ranger, Engineer and necro can efficiently apply poison fast enough and long enough to choke the healing, this means 2 other classes cannot apply it fast enough, 2 can not apply at all (doom sigil not counted).
This means ele almost hard-counters 4/8 classes with one build and give 3/8 classes massive issues…. that is not right.

Shave the heal, equalize the sustain with the damage.

^ Agreed. Although if you nerf the might stacking of only the ele (and possibly engie) you may achieve a more defensive outcome. It really depends what is more fair to shave away. The sustain? or the dmg?

I think either would work, however I feel the intention of a lot of celestial eles is to survive being that they spec so far into water. I personally don’t think it’s as bad to allow it to remain a bunker inherent build.

You can’t charge in and spam your your skills hoping to kill an ele. Save your dps for right after they leave water attunement. :V

Also trying to face kitten one that is in air/fire is a horrible idea as well. They are melee after all.

zaxon.6819:

ADD a skill .. maybe mesmer ..

Explode Boons… That destroys boons on target dealing damage for each boon destroyed.

Hahahah. How about we delete Moa Morph? I think it’s a much better idea.

You guys aren’t even thinking clearly. Talking about nerfing cele ele’s sustain. But they are specifically traited and built to be a bunker spec. The only reason, and I repeat, the only reason they are OP is because of the might stacks and the rune set. Just do me a favor and go play a couple games with cleric amulet and rune of the water. You’ll see they do next to no damage whatsoever but have incredible sustain. The bunker aspect of the class is working as intended. The DPS aspect, however, is not. So that’s where the might shave and cele/runeset shave comes into play here and ele would finally be balanced. Forcing players to (if they want more dps) trait differently.

Seriously….Traiting into water (WHICH IS A HEALING/VITALITY LINE), Arcana (WHICH IS A DEFENSIVE LINE), and 2 in earth (WHICH IS A TOUGHNESS/CONDI LINE). It’s all defensive traits, so it makes sense that the ele would be bunkerish. Just like a shout heal warr, or a bunker guard, blah blah.

Come to this thread and discuss this possible nerf idea. I feel it bodes well for everybody.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Nerf-Fire-Fields-here-s-why/first#post4527534

No body complains about bunker eles, that is, unless those bunker eles are also killing you. This is a huge reason why they are killing you.

I fully support this… nerf the celestial might stacking.

Just give anet another 5 months to sub out a part time employee to look into this

To all those crying nerf; I tend to think if you think something should be nerfed, try playing it yourself for a few days and then see if you think the same. I’m not saying there isn’t a case for it, I just think often people cry nerf because they often lose against players that have developed more skill – and to succeed at all with ele you do need to have developed some good reflexes and timing.

These threads are pathetic. Seriously. Try browsing through your previous posts, you’d probably realize it was stupid.
“lol. Ele and Engi are not OP. Learn to play the class to counter it”
Stop this argument. It’s bad. You dont have to play a class to know when something is unbalanced.
I main D/D Ele and I think it’s fairly reasonable to nerf that spec. I would not nerf any of the abilities, but rather go for a change that hits Cele Engi as well, since IMO that build is even stronger (which in short is due to the extreme low cooldowns and kittenloads of skills). History shows that nerfing the healing is not the way to go, since Anet already tried that.

I think it’s obvious that Rune Of Strength is simply way too strong. Every single build is currently running that rune. That’s a pretty clear indicator to me. The might duration needs to be reduced by at least 20% or more.
Blasting a fire field has a base duration of 20 seconds. With 45% increase from runes and 30% from the traitline we almost double that duration, and it lands on 35 seconds.
This applies directly to Sigil of Battle as well, since the duration is the same.
This is obviously a huge deal in making celestial builds too strong. A reduction is necessary.
inc
Furthermore the synergy between might and the amulet is incredibly good. To me reducing the amount of condition damage you receive from each mightstack would be a reasonable change. The boon is simply too strong as it is, and promotes these weird hybrid builds that you can’t really counter since they bring both Direct and Condi damage to the fight.
Changing a Might Stack to grant: 35 Power and 15 Condition Damage could be a suggestion, that would hopefully not kill Might-stacking builds, but bring them in line. Keep in mind that 25 might-stacks would still grant 375 condition damage, which with the Celestial Amulet would be 813 and a burning damage for 438 per second.
Receiving 875 Power AND Condition Damage from a boon is way too much, since the duration is also incredibly long.
Another alternative would be to reduce the stacks of might granted, instead of reducing the duration. And to be honest I wont try to be clever on this one, since I don’t really know which change would be be best.

TL;DR:
Might as a boon is too strong, and 25 stacks can too easily be reached due to the extreme duration of Rune of Strength and Sigil Of Battle+Blast Finishers in general. Reduce the duration and the Condition Damage gained from Might.

Phantaram.1265:

Changes can be made only for Spvp and there has been quite a few cases in the past that this has happened.

Yes, the easiest being to drop sPvP. Removes a world of balance worries as many systems are compatible between WvW and PvE, but not PvP.

I did not say it was not unbalanced, I said often people cry nerf just because they have trouble beating a class. It depends on your perspective a bit. My list of how I get on against other classes is like this : -

Necros: Very good condi necros give me a lot of grief, I sometimes get beaten. Oddly there seems to be a big divide.. the not so good ones I can often beat.

Mesmers: Good ones give me grief; I’m bad at spotting the real one a lot of the time, sometimes get beaten. I usually have to tab to find the ones with the boons on them, and sometimes that doesn’t work if they stealth. Could be a bit of a L2P issue. D/D ele is moving a lot so its hard to just stand back and find them.

Engineer: Usually get beaten by good ones to be honest, especially high condi ones.

Warriors: Don’t give me that much trouble because they often do silly things like walk into my churning earth.

Ranger: I can usually beat them if they are too busy hiding behind being ranged.

Guardians: Fights go on forever if they are bunker. There’s a certain combination of 2 guardians at times that seems very powerful – they use a lot of CC and I melt instantly. No idea on the builds.

Theif: Again, can usually beat them if I can guess where they are going to be when they stealth, which isn’t that hard.

Ele: I usually beat other eles.

So basically Theif, Ranger and Warrior I find are a bit underpowered (though glassy Rangers can get me from a distance if I’m not careful).

I don’t profess to be an ele master so perhaps some of that is L2P. I have played ele for over 2 years, but only a couple of hours a day. I use a multi-button mouse so I can easily access all the skills and strafe at the same time and am fluent at the controls and can dodge most attacks – so maybe I’m doing something else wrong not to be able to consistently beat these other classes being that I’m really OP in your opinion?

Honestly I’d love to meet up in game and perhaps you can give me some pointers. I don’t mind being beaten, it is just a game and stayed with ele even when we were in a bad way, but if I can improve that’d be great.

Also I can rarely sustain 25 stacks.. and I rotate through the elements a lot, and use the fire field to get further stacks of might.

Care to lend a hand?

KrisHQ.4719:

These threads are pathetic. Seriously. Try browsing through your previous posts, you’d probably realize it was stupid.
“lol. Ele and Engi are not OP. Learn to play the class to counter it”
Stop this argument. It’s bad. You dont have to play a class to know when something is unbalanced.
I main D/D Ele and I think it’s fairly reasonable to nerf that spec. I would not nerf any of the abilities, but rather go for a change that hits Cele Engi as well, since IMO that build is even stronger (which in short is due to the extreme low cooldowns and kittenloads of skills). History shows that nerfing the healing is not the way to go, since Anet already tried that.
… SNIP ….

TL;DR:
Might as a boon is too strong, and 25 stacks can too easily be reached due to the extreme duration of Rune of Strength and Sigil Of Battle+Blast Finishers in general. Reduce the duration and the Condition Damage gained from Might.

buff the thief MH sword boon steal back to 2 or 3 and you’ll see why eles weren’t well welcomed for some time, long ago.

Alienmuppet.1942:

To all those crying nerf; I tend to think if you think something should be nerfed, try playing it yourself for a few days and then see if you think the same. I’m not saying there isn’t a case for it, I just think often people cry nerf because they often lose against players that have developed more skill – and to succeed at all with ele you do need to have developed some good reflexes and timing.

i agree that in most cases your statement would be true. However while you need to be skilled to be “top level” with DD Celestial, you do NOT need to be excessively skilled to be hard-carried by the build at medium level. This causes a very large barrier to the majority of the playerbase, all of the players that are not experienced PvP’ers (yet).

If the larger part of the playerbase will struggle severely with a certain type of build then said build is too strong in the very first place.

DD Celestial DPS is fine, it is strong but not over the top “gunna oneshot u ded”.
What is not fine is strong DPS coupled with strong sustain. The healing scales too easily too fast. Granted that ele spams alot of skills in DD it also heals very fast from attacks alone. The combination of Regeneration, Healing Mist and Signet allows a DD Cele ele to heal somewhere close to 600 hp/second. This may not seem drastical at all, since warriors can get 450 (addin in first stage adrenal health divided by 3) hp/second with full PVT.

Yet, Warrior healthpool is easily 25k in PVT armor, while the ele is a meager 18k.
Add ontop of this fast healing/second, that ele also get 2k HP when dodging every 10 sec while in water, another 2k from Water Dagger 5, 1.6k from attuning to water. All this combined is 5.6k HP from skills that are not healing skills. If using glyph you can add another 5.2k heal. All these things ontop of a 400-600 hp/second healing. That is far too strong with a healthpool that low.

One might try to defend the ele by pointing to it’s light armor, but the near 100% uptime of protect make such a argument weak as said protection is worth CLOSE to 2750 armor (through calculations done a long time ago, 2750 is roughly 30% reduced damage to a medium armor class). Meaning that in reality the ele is boasting nearly 5k armor on a near “permanent” basis. In comparison, that is 650 more armor then a heavy armor class can achieve even if using full ascended gear, food and stacks in WvW.
That say’s A LOT.

DD Cele needs a coefficiency nerf to it’s on attune heal, on dodge heal and Dagger 5 heal. We are talking few percent, around the 7-15% area at max. More then 15% nerf to the total healing of Ripple, Evasive Arcana heal (Cleansing Wave) and Cleansing Wave itself would be devastating to the build and class.

I’d say, as things stand, Cleansing Wave (evasive Arcana version) is the one in most dire need of a nerf to it’s coefficiencies. As you can trigger a skill with a 40sec CD (normal skill) with just a 10 sec ICD.

Drop the sustain of these, alonside reducing the vigor duration from Renewing Stamina to reduce the excessive vigor uptime (25% chance and 5 sec ICD is allowing you to easily keep 50% + uptime on vigor with that trait alone, let alone that you get from using cantrip’s)

Celestial amulet in general needs a nerf. It will also fix some of the problems with engi.

Prysin.8542:

Alienmuppet.1942:

To all those crying nerf; I tend to think if you think something should be nerfed, try playing it yourself for a few days and then see if you think the same. I’m not saying there isn’t a case for it, I just think often people cry nerf because they often lose against players that have developed more skill – and to succeed at all with ele you do need to have developed some good reflexes and timing.

One might try to defend the ele by pointing to it’s light armor, but the near 100% uptime of protect make such a argument weak as said protection is worth CLOSE to 2750 armor (through calculations done a long time ago, 2750 is roughly 30% reduced damage to a medium armor class). Meaning that in reality the ele is boasting nearly 5k armor on a near “permanent” basis. In comparison, that is 650 more armor then a heavy armor class can achieve even if using full ascended gear, food and stacks in WvW.
That say’s A LOT.

I don’t think you understand how armor or protection works at all. Nor how long eles get protection for.

Saying eles get near 100% uptime on protection is like saying necros have near 100% uptime on deathshroud.

Stop lying, and stop over exaggerating.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Prysin.8542:

Alienmuppet.1942:

To all those crying nerf; I tend to think if you think something should be nerfed, try playing it yourself for a few days and then see if you think the same. I’m not saying there isn’t a case for it, I just think often people cry nerf because they often lose against players that have developed more skill – and to succeed at all with ele you do need to have developed some good reflexes and timing.

One might try to defend the ele by pointing to it’s light armor, but the near 100% uptime of protect make such a argument weak as said protection is worth CLOSE to 2750 armor (through calculations done a long time ago, 2750 is roughly 30% reduced damage to a medium armor class). Meaning that in reality the ele is boasting nearly 5k armor on a near “permanent” basis. In comparison, that is 650 more armor then a heavy armor class can achieve even if using full ascended gear, food and stacks in WvW.
That say’s A LOT.

I don’t think you understand how armor or protection works at all. Nor how long eles get protection for.

Saying eles get near 100% uptime on protection is like saying necros have near 100% uptime on deathshroud.

Stop lying, and stop over exaggerating.

Uhh. My man, you should research more into the optimal defensive attunement rotation for the D/D elementalist. Earth Attunement itself is 6.5s protection buff by itself, when used on a 10s cooldown. Add Elemental shielding to the mix, which gives 4s of protection on Shocking, Frost, and Fire Aura (earth 3 leap through fire field), protection can be put up pretty much indefinitely. Throw in Armor of Earth on top.

The reasoning why players may falsely claim Ele has infinite protection is because if the Ele wants to blow through his cooldowns, he can re-apply prot way faster than anything can remove it. I’m not saying it makes sense for any Ele to prioritize the protection boon this much, but, an example:

For example like…. (Leap through Fire field = 4s prot, Earth Swap = 6.5s prot, Armor of Earth = 8s prot, Shocking Aura = 4s prot, Frost Aura, 4s prot.

So, explain why you think I am exaggerating and or/ lying? If you can spare 1 Aura to supplement your Earth Attunement every time, that’s pretty much full protection uptime.

Chaith.8256:

So, explain why you think I am exaggerating and or/ lying? If you can spare 1 Aura to supplement your Earth Attunement every time, that’s pretty much full protection uptime.

Good thing there is a GCD on attunement swaps and actual earth skills usually need to be cast, making minimum time between swaps ~12s, and auras are on a 20 and 40s icd (15s for that fire field, which also means 15s between swaps back to earth, and less time for building might if you are leaping through your fire field).

Sure, ele can have a lot of protection uptime, and this cyclical availability is often why dodging feels somewhat “on-rotation” for an ele, but I believe the point being made is that perma-prot is quite simply not a thing. Most eles will have prot. available for big hit when played well, maintaining maybe 60-70% uptime, but unless you take elemental contingency (and who would ever do that over evasive arcana) you can’t truly get perma prot (its easy with ele contingency though).

Curious how back when the Celestial change came, there was a ton of whining about how it makes the gear terrible.
They upped it from 2/3rd to 5/8th, and even after that the forum was filled with continued complaints how this doesn’t even remotely make up for the amount of critdamage lost.

And here we are, and now the supposedly rubbish Celestial is overpowered? Really?

Alienmuppet.1942:

SNIPPET

Are we talking duels on a duel server or tpvp/spvp?
In sPvP there are fights that I do not take if they hold a point. I’d never engage against a Warrior since the fight would be too long, but the only class that I can never beat is engi.
They are incredibly strong in Conquest, but in duels I can manage a sustained fight that goes on forever.
25 stacks can be reached, and it’s all about doing a little mini-game trying not to waste any blastfinishers without a firefield, if you’re on a team with another ele or engi it’s obviously much easier.

KrisHQ.4719:

Alienmuppet.1942:

SNIPPET

Are we talking duels on a duel server or tpvp/spvp?
In sPvP there are fights that I do not take if they hold a point. I’d never engage against a Warrior since the fight would be too long, but the only class that I can never beat is engi.
They are incredibly strong in Conquest, but in duels I can manage a sustained fight that goes on forever.
25 stacks can be reached, and it’s all about doing a little mini-game trying not to waste any blastfinishers without a firefield, if you’re on a team with another ele or engi it’s obviously much easier.

TPVP/SPVP mostly though I do duel a little sometimes on duelling servers (and get my kitten kicked sometimes by all sorts of classes, though I am a semi-casual player I guess). I never use macros as I think there is more personal satisfaction doing it all yourself.

Regarding what you said about 25 stacks of might: That’s a little different to people implying that getting and maintaining 25 stacks is easy. You can’t often keep a perfect rotation either due to changing situations during fights. You have to adapt. During fights I typically look down and see maybe 13 stacks of might (yes I am using battle sigil + strength runes). Maybe I need to L2P a little better, but often I’m recovering from all sorts of cripples, immobilization, conditions, etc. and no way can I keep a perfect rotation / blast finishers going.

If I get all my boons converted to conditions and my cleanse is on cooldown, I’m usually dead because I can barely move. 1 good necro on a team is all it takes.

Of course I’m no “pro”.. so could be missing something. But I shouldn’t need to be, as some are saying how easy it is…