Guild Wars 2

Drake Phoenix.6158:

Shockwave is absolutely right. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the reason for the zerker meta is because the game design currently has a rewards system that requires the highest/fastest damage possible in order to have the highest rewards efficiency. As long as that remains the case, every group will always be best served by whatever will enhance the total group dps overall the most.

While it may affect the meta to chane other systems to make it so that something other than power/crit would accomplish the greatest total group dps, that doesn’t change the fact that it is still all about the damage output (especially in PvE). They could nerf zerker gear into the ground, and all they would accomplish is to force players to replace zerker with the next best thing for increasing total group dps. They could buff conditions in some way (like changing stacking mechanics), and if it turns out that the change results in condi builds being better for overall damage output in groups than zerker currently is, then everyone will switch up to pure condi gear. In effect they would have changed everything in order to change nothing at all.

In my opinion, if they really want to change the paradigm so people don’t always take pure damage (at least in PvE), then they need to change the reward system drastically (as well as making conditions useful in PvE groups). The only way to get away from the pure damage meta is to make it so that players are rewarded with equal rewards efficiency even when they take another approach.

Whoa careful there Drake – you are straying dangerously close to the edges of groupthink

nightwulf.1986:

This is where the people are coming from who keep trying to beat into everyone’s heads that Ferocity is not the end all solution the community at large is making it out to be. They say that they had to make this change to crit damage calculation before they could move on to the other changes and they can’t make all of the changes at once. They haven’t even said what those other changes are yet and people assume they know what’s coming. They have been intentionally vague on their long term goals. I really feel that these posts on how Ferocity alone will not change the zerker meta are pointless. Of course it won’t! You know it won’t, arenanet knows it won’t, even your zerker armor knows it won’t. Everyone is in agreement! Stay tuned folks!

edit: added time code to twitch link for easier access.

There are two reasons why those statements are not comforting to me:

1. They’ve already stated that crit damage is in a good spot for them in sPvP. Which makes me wonder why exactly they think it’s in such an awful spot in WvW.

2. Other changes may be coming, but it’s been was more four months between the last balance patch and this feature build. Four months under a very strong condi meta, and judging by a number of changes coming with the feature build they are only looking to make condis stronger. How long will it be until the next part of their plan rolls out? And will those change only provide more buffs to support, while direct damage falls to the wayside in non-zerg fights?

Khalic.3561:

nightwulf.1986:

This is where the people are coming from who keep trying to beat into everyone’s heads that Ferocity is not the end all solution the community at large is making it out to be. They say that they had to make this change to crit damage calculation before they could move on to the other changes and they can’t make all of the changes at once. They haven’t even said what those other changes are yet and people assume they know what’s coming. They have been intentionally vague on their long term goals. I really feel that these posts on how Ferocity alone will not change the zerker meta are pointless. Of course it won’t! You know it won’t, arenanet knows it won’t, even your zerker armor knows it won’t. Everyone is in agreement! Stay tuned folks!

edit: added time code to twitch link for easier access.

There are two reasons why those statements are not comforting to me:

1. They’ve already stated that crit damage is in a good spot for them in sPvP. Which makes me wonder why exactly they think it’s in such an awful spot in WvW.

2. Other changes may be coming, but it’s been was more four months between the last balance patch and this feature build. Four months under a very strong condi meta, and judging by a number of changes coming with the feature build they are only looking to make condis stronger. How long will it be until the next part of their plan rolls out? And will those change only provide more buffs to support, while direct damage falls to the wayside in non-zerg fights?

All valid questions and concerns I think. The sucky part is that they have been taking a while to make these changes and there is a pretty popular thread raging against the machine on that subject. So who knows when we’ll get an answer but you can be certain we’ll find out eventually. They are trying real hard not to split pve and pvp skill balancing at the moment. Maybe they will change their mind eventually but it really seems like they are trying as hard as they can to find a balance that works…enough…for both pve and pvp.

People don’t get it.

This was never about the zerker meta. This was about nerfing damage – my non-zerker build got a 11.23% damage nerf.
Every class that had some investment in crit got a damage nerf. This was never about zerker, just that damage was nerfed.

Will this change the content ? No.
Will it change the game dramatically? No.

Harper.4173:

People don’t get it.

This was never about the zerker meta. This was about nerfing damage – my non-zerker build got a 11.23% damage nerf.
Every class that had some investment in crit got a damage nerf. This was never about zerker, just that damage was nerfed.

Will this change the content ? No.
Will it change the game dramatically? No.

Yet condi bursting stays….

Also this was solely based on WvW aspect of this game.

Crit damage was over the top in WvW because of Ascended trinkets/amulets/rings/backpieces. The current stats have a very strong amount of crit damage for each slot.

For example, an Ascended Berserker amulet has the same crit damage as the ascended helm, shoulders, and chest armor combined. However, it only has 67% of the Power of those same three pieces, and Power is the primary stat!. An Ascended ring has the same crit damage as the legs and any two armor pieces (chest excluded) combined, again, despite having at most 73% of the Power stat of those same pieces.

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

I said the primary reason, not the only reason. Because those particular pieces were so horrendously over-budget, it meant that the only way to bring it in line was to nerf the overall amount.

There are other reasons for the change to Ferocity as well.

Black Box.9312:

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

Such as boon duration or condi duration?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I said the primary reason, not the only reason. Because those particular pieces were so horrendously over-budget, it meant that the only way to bring it in line was to nerf the overall amount.

There are other reasons for the change to Ferocity as well.

By giving ferocity to crit damage a better ratio than 15->1% they could have allowed for a higher maximum.

EDIT: They also could have given ferocity on armour pieces a different allotment than the standard minor stat value. Or they could have introduced a ferocity major stat type with the release as well. Instead they decided to nerf the build type across the board, for an undecided amount of time.

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I said the primary reason, not the only reason. Because those particular pieces were so horrendously over-budget, it meant that the only way to bring it in line was to nerf the overall amount.

There are other reasons for the change to Ferocity as well.

By giving ferocity to crit damage a better ratio than 15->1% they could have allowed for a higher maximum.

They could have, but as I already said, those pieces were over-budget and horrendously so. This means the total crit damage was too high. Ergo, the total needed to get nerfed as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I said the primary reason, not the only reason. Because those particular pieces were so horrendously over-budget, it meant that the only way to bring it in line was to nerf the overall amount.

There are other reasons for the change to Ferocity as well.

By giving ferocity to crit damage a better ratio than 15->1% they could have allowed for a higher maximum.

They could have, but as I already said, those pieces were over-budget and horrendously so. This means the total crit damage was too high. Ergo, the total needed to get nerfed as well.

And… I’m arguing that the maximum was not too high with regards to WvW. They brought it down to around 60-70% I believe. Which is near what you can reach in sPvP, and they’re happy with that level in that game type.

However, every other build type has the potential to go above and beyond their stats in sPvP. Bunkers and condi burst in particular. If the level of direct damage burst was fine compared to the potential of other builds in sPvP then there’s a good chance it will now be off in WvW.

Regardless of whether jewelry pieces were giving a larger amount of crit damage than they should or not, there were options to normalize the stat and limit min-maxing without doing an across the board nerf.

There is something you aren’t considering, though: Zerker and Assassin’s gear have three stats that multiply each other. A seemingly small increase in one can be significantly stronger than you would expect. Bunkers do not multiply in that way.

And only the amulet/rings/backpiece/trinkets are actually getting significantly nerfed. Other pieces of gear will result in nearly the same or even slightly higher crit damage (due to extra stats above the cutoff adding together) than before.

Breakdown of Ascended gear:
1-handed weapon
Pre-Ferocity: 5% crit damage
Post Ferocity: 67 Ferocity (4% crit damage, 7 points toward the next percentage)

2-handed weapon:
Pre-Ferocity: 10% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 134 Ferocity (8% crit damage, 14 points toward next percentage)

Helm:
Pre-Ferocity: 2% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 34 Ferocity (2% crit damage, 4 points toward next percentage)

Shoulders:
Pre-Ferocity: 2% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 25 Ferocity (1% crit damage, 10 points toward next percentage)

Chest:
Pre-Ferocity: 5% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 76 Ferocity (5% crit damage, 1 point toward next percentage)

Gloves:
Pre-Ferocity: 2% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 25 Ferocity (1% crit damage, 10 points toward next percentage)

Pants:
Pre-Ferocity: 4% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 50 Ferocity (3% crit damage, 5 points toward next percentage)

Boots:
Pre-Ferocity: 2% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 25 Ferocity (1% crit damage, 10 points toward next percentage)

Amulet:
Pre-Ferocity: 9% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 85 Ferocity (5% crit damage, 10 points toward next percentage)

Ring:
Pre-Ferocity: 8% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 68 Ferocity (4% crit damage, 8 points toward next percentage)

Trinket:
Pre-Ferocity: 7% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 60 Ferocity (4% crit damage, 0 points toward next percentage)

Backpiece:
Pre-Ferocity: 5% crit damage
Post-Ferocity: 35 Ferocity (2% crit damage, 5 points toward next percentage)

Extra points add up to 85 Ferocity, which is another 5% crit damage with 10 points toward next percentage (from food, runes, or other buffs)

Khalic.3561:

Black Box.9312:

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

Such as boon duration or condi duration?

Those aren’t nearly as problematic at this time, but yes.

Khalic.3561:

Black Box.9312:

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

Such as boon duration or condi duration?

Boon and condi duration are very difficult to get on gear. Crit damage is not.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

There is something you aren’t considering, though: Zerker and Assassin’s gear have three stats that multiply each other. A seemingly small increase in one can be significantly stronger than you would expect. Bunkers do not multiply in that way.

Bunkers do have a multiplier in the form of boon duration, though admittedly they can’t stack it much higher than they can inside sPvP. They’re are however capable of significantly higher defensive stats in WvW.

The greater concern is the much more significant multiplier condition duration, which is very easily more than doubled by a single piece of food… And taken even further by runes that aren’t available in sPvP.

The fact that the those stats aren’t typically built into armour types doesn’t lessen their potential outside sPvP.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And only the amulet/rings/backpiece/trinkets are actually getting significantly nerfed. Other pieces of gear will result in the same or even slightly higher crit damage (due to extra stats above the cutoff adding together) than before.

Which is why the change is actually a much more significant nerf to hyrid builds than the full zerker PvE meta that they claim to be combating.

However, if they had redistributed the stat somehow or provided an alternative while retaining it’s potential, those hybrid builds would likely have adjusted. Instead, they simply take a straight nerf.

Ahh, I see the issue. You didn’t see the Ready Up when they announced that it was specifically those “hybrids” that they were aiming at, especially for WvW. People have been taking the Zerker trinkets and going pure Soldier for everything else because they got obscene crit damage for their tiny investment and still get to be tanky. The reduction on Zerker builds was also desirable as they aim toward making other gear types more relevant for PvE (this is the first step, not the only step).

So it’s a question of risk vs reward, and it’s a question of limiting min-maxing.

It’s worth noting that trinkets also provide significantly higher non-percent stats than most pieces of armour. And though I don’t want to get into a debate about it, it is still worth mentioning the existence dire.

The point remains that they should have preserved the potential. The maximum amount of burst damage from a crit build was not at all unreasonable assuming that the player was actually glass. Or that they sacrificed some measure of their damage to gain some measure of survivability. Because of the distribution and ratio of ferocity the ceiling for all power builds is lowered.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ahh, I see the issue. You didn’t see the Ready Up when they announced that it was specifically those “hybrids” that they were aiming at, especially for WvW. People have been taking the Zerker trinkets and going pure Soldier for everything else because they got obscene crit damage for their tiny investment and still get to be tanky. The reduction on Zerker builds was also desirable as they aim toward making other gear types more relevant for PvE (this is the first step, not the only step).

Why make your first step “kitten off the vast majority of PvE customers” by flatly reducing their damage? The non-zerk builds aren’t viable just because they do less damage, they’re less viable because they flat out don’t work for most of PvE content. Name one non-zerk build that even comes close to working let alone zerker damage. Conditions builds? Yea lets invest our entire build into something that can easily get stack limited if another guardian applies burning or stacks bleed too high. Condition builds are useless for most world bosses and structures. Defensive builds? No reason to invest into defensive stats when bosses one-shot you no matter how much vitality you have. Control builds? Doesn’t work on bosses due to Defiance, next.

The answer isn’t to make non-working builds more attracting by bringing zerker down. All that does is make players mad and cause them to tolerate non-zerkers in their PUG’s even less since overall group damage is now less.

The answer is to make a competitor to zerker by either fixing condition stacking in PvE or adding new DPS stats like haste/armor piercing/cd reduction/etc to compete with crit damage.

Khalic.3561:

So it’s a question of risk vs reward, and it’s a question of limiting min-maxing.

It’s worth noting that trinkets also provide significantly higher non-percent stats than most pieces of armour. And though I don’t want to get into a debate about it, it is still worth mentioning the existence dire.

The point remains that they should have preserved the potential. The maximum amount of burst damage from a crit build was not at all unreasonable assuming that the player was actually glass. Or that they sacrificed some measure of their damage to gain some measure of survivability. Because of the distribution and ratio of ferocity the ceiling for all power builds is lowered.

There are a couple of parameters they had that you are forgetting.

1. Crit damage is a secondary stat, therefore any formula they use must work off of the secondary value on all gear.

2. Crit damage on trinkets was over-budget, so the amount provided by said trinkets had to be reduced.

3. Crit damage on armor/weapons was in the desired place already.

So, between #2 and #3, we have an issue. You can’t just shift some of the crit damage from the trinkets to the armor, because now the armor is over budget, even if the trinkets are now in the right spot. In addition, the armor/weapon crit damage stats had to line up pretty closely with Precision values on Zerker gear.

There is simply no way to satisfy all three issues without nerfing the maximum crit damage potential. As such, the overall damage nerf had to happen. Yes, this upsets players, but any change upsets players.

One thing you also likely missed is that, in the same Ready Up, they stated that Ferocity as a primary stat on gear is now a possibility. The time may come when your crits are even bigger than they are now, at the cost of smaller non-crits.

@Andar: Pretty sure the “Vast majority” doesn’t run Zerker gear. Yes, it is by far the best, and yes, the issue is due to enemy design. However, this change needed to be made regardless. Best to get it (the simplest of the likely changes) done and out of the way to see what kind of an impact it has while they work on the rest of their plan.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Khalic.3561:

So it’s a question of risk vs reward, and it’s a question of limiting min-maxing.

It’s worth noting that trinkets also provide significantly higher non-percent stats than most pieces of armour. And though I don’t want to get into a debate about it, it is still worth mentioning the existence dire.

The point remains that they should have preserved the potential. The maximum amount of burst damage from a crit build was not at all unreasonable assuming that the player was actually glass. Or that they sacrificed some measure of their damage to gain some measure of survivability. Because of the distribution and ratio of ferocity the ceiling for all power builds is lowered.

There are a couple of parameters they had that you are forgetting.

1. Crit damage is a secondary stat, therefore any formula they use must work off of the secondary value on all gear.

2. Crit damage on trinkets was over-budget, so the amount provided by said trinkets had to be reduced.

3. Crit damage on armor/weapons was in the desired place already.

So, between #2 and #3, we have an issue. You can’t just shift some of the crit damage from the trinkets to the armor, because now the armor is over budget, even if the trinkets are now in the right spot. In addition, the armor/weapon crit damage stats had to line up pretty closely with Precision values on Zerker gear.

There is simply no way to satisfy all three issues without nerfing the maximum crit damage potential. As such, the overall damage nerf had to happen. Yes, this upsets players, but any change upsets players.

One thing you also likely missed is that, in the same Ready Up, they stated that Ferocity as a primary stat on gear is now a possibility. The time may come when your crits are even bigger than they are now, at the cost of smaller non-crits.

@Andar: Pretty sure the “Vast majority” doesn’t run Zerker gear. Yes, it is by far the best, and yes, the issue is due to enemy design. However, this change needed to be made regardless. Best to get it (the simplest of the likely changes) done and out of the way to see what kind of an impact it has while they work on the rest of their plan.

Your issue is easily solved by Anet choosing a different Ferocity to Crit % ratio. They could have properly reduced the Accessories Ferocity inline with other budgets but upped the overall ratio to keep total crit % the same as zerker builds now. Their change hurt the non armor zerker wearers (accessories only) significantly more than all-zerker builds which is clumsy and ill-conceived and will only incentivise people to now wear ALL zerker to make up the accessories loss (this is all PvE mind you).

Check the LFG tool any time during prime time and at least half are “zerker only” runs and even the non zerker only runs end up at least 3/5’s zerker at some level. Any solution to the problem can’t possibly start with kittening this many people off without fixing their alternatives. People like playing damage builds, you only make them mad by forcing them into a non-working alternative.

No, it would not have. See point #3. Using a different ratio would have resulted in the armor going over budget instead.

And as for incentivizing people to wear all zerker gear, that’s intentional. If you want that high damage output, you need to have a high investment in it. No more getting the best of both worlds. They wanted to hurt those people only getting the accessories.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No, it would not have. See point #3. Using a different ratio would have resulted in the armor going over budget instead.

And as for incentivizing people to wear all zerker gear, that’s intentional. If you want that high damage output, you need to have a high investment in it. No more getting the best of both worlds. They wanted to hurt those people only getting the accessories.

Yes and I disagree with #3 in a world where the alternative is to flatly reduce zerker and non-zerk damage alike without fixing the alternatives first. It makes the player base mad by seeing reduced damage output and group performance, and it makes me think they don’t understand the underlying problem pushing people to not want non-zerkers in the first place and are only interested in clunky band-aids.

The better solution, to me, is to add an alternative damage-dealing meta to zerker to compete (realistically they’re not going to change all the existing mechanics so we live with it). Right now there’s only power/prec/ferocity and nothing else if you want to do damage in PvE. Conditions don’t work in group content even if they were on equal damage footing. Adding stats like haste, CD reduction, armor piercing, cleave damage, etc to the existing damage stats would create more interesting damage builds as it is clear that is what most of the people want to play given the content.

Talyn.3295:

No, people hate trinity because its boring. It always has been always will be.

wrong it isn’t boring as system if you know how to put the players to their limits in thier job. i think WoW did a great job in their HC Raids and the challenge to be the fastest at your server, your region the world etc. it drives you forward. different boss mechanics are the thing that makes PvE enjoyable, of course tank’n’spank is boring but this will be boring in any PvE scenario whatsoever it isn’t the fault of the trinity. And the trinity helps to define playerroles which we are completly lacking in GW2 except DPS.

Even if you think the trinity is boring, than you have to accept that only DPS is even more boring in any case. In the most dungeons you have the highest success with the tactic to burst down the boss asap, even if interrupts etc will help these are things you can do in full DPS builds also you don’t need to be tanky or suportive to do so.

there are only 2 options to make the PvE interesting:

1. make PvE like PvP, which is almost impossible and will cost many rescourses and (re)work of almost every PvE content so far.

2. defined playerroles, so that the job they are doing is crutial in the group and without them it’s almost impossible to be successive. it doesn’t has to be the trinity but it is the most balanced and stable system regarding this. yes maybe the content till now will be even more boring since you can play tank’n’spank-stlye but it give complete new posiiblilitys of contentdesign for the future where “bring the player not the class” actually matters.

I can understand Anet in the point they want you to be able to play every content with your friends without be forced into several roles! but if therefore the content is always/mostly the same and dishing out the most possible damage in the less possible time isn’t enjoyable neither. If you give every profession the possibility to fulfill every playerrole together with the upcomming change that you are able to switch traits everywhere everytime this arguement i mentioned above won’t be harmed and still will improve the overall experience……so i don’t see a problem in doing so since GW2 is a PvP only game until yet. you can’t make PvE worse than it is today imho.

As stated by Shockwave, this is a game design issue. I’m not going to stop running zerker gear but any gear I had that wasn’t zerker gear will soon be across all my characters… Of course, I’ll still keep my PVT drunk play gear for when I’m smashed.

Simon.3794:

its the 1st step, by lowering the dps by 10%, the fight will take 10% longer, so players will take more damage during the fight, so zerker might be less tempting to certain players.

Those certain players were already bad from the start.

From what I have seen only the people who don’t learn encounters and don’t know how/when to dodge are the only ones who can’t/shouldn’t run zerkers.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ahh, I see the issue. You didn’t see the Ready Up when they announced that it was specifically those “hybrids” that they were aiming at, especially for WvW.

1. They killed build diversity to a new holy trinity of Power/Condi/Bunker
2. They said they’d never nerf based on WvW being as it’s imbalanced
3. They’ve failed to actually understand how this nerf will play out

It’s also a slap in the face that the original selling point of this nerf was to break up the PvE meta.

We’ll see how many ppl keep playing after this patch

T raw.4658:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ahh, I see the issue. You didn’t see the Ready Up when they announced that it was specifically those “hybrids” that they were aiming at, especially for WvW.

1. They killed build diversity to a new holy trinity of Power/Condi/Bunker
2. They said they’d never nerf based on WvW being as it’s imbalanced
3. They’ve failed to actually understand how this nerf will play out

It’s also a slap in the face that the original selling point of this nerf was to break up the PvE meta.

We’ll see how many ppl keep playing after this patch

I thought they started making balance changes according to wvw long before this. Wasn’t the glamour mesmer nerf a while back because of the prevalence of heavy confusion damage in wvw? That aside, they didn’t say they knew how this will play out. They worked out a recalculation of crit damage to bring it in line with other stats. Their original selling point was actually that this is only one change in a series of changes they need to make to break up the meta. Check out http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/496005243?t=8m40s . Word for word, they tell you that Ferocity is not going to break up the meta and they want to see how it shakes out before making the other changes. Seriously though, why do people keep saying that Ferocity won’t fix the meta? Am I mistaken that they didn’t actually say that it would? I get the criticism about them not making all of the changes at once but this particular line seems terribly misguided.

Ferocity won’t fix the meta because the meta is ruled by Condi/CC in PvP.

In WvW condi rules small engagements while power rules zerg

PvE stays power

This change just further pushes the condi meta and only makes PvE more painful to one’s sack than it already is

T raw.4658:

Ferocity won’t fix the meta because the meta is ruled by Condi/CC in PvP.

Ferocity isn’t meant to. Heck, your crit damage isn’t going to change at all in PvP unless you ran Celestial. The Ferocity change will have literally 0 effect on PvP.

And I still have yet to find evidence that this “condi meta” actually exists. I primarily roam in WvW and I still find far more Power build roamers than condition damage ones. In PvP, the top teams have always run one or two condition damage builds ever since launch. There hasn’t been a change in that.

As I thought, hybrid builds are totally shafted. Guard (knights with zerk/valk) has lost 33% crit damage, my ranger (soldier with zerk) has lost 43% crit damage and my Warrior has lost 40% crit dmg.