Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

So a lot of attacks that cause bleeding come in pairs. Mark of Blood is 2 stacks.
Eruption is 6. A warrior sword chain is bleed, bleed, and third strike cripples. Necro sceptor is bleed, bleed, poison.

So what if all bleeding attacks did twice as much damage and half as many stacks? and chains had a throwaway condition like vulnerability, bleed, cripple, for the warrior, and bleed, poison, siphon health for the necro.

Bosses would still be bleed capped at 25, but each player would only be stacking half as many bleeds, but still doing just as much damage.

So world bosses would need some tuning to compensate for all the extra bleeding damage, but the players wouldn’t be penalized by the cap as harshly, and the servers, 90% of the time, would be using less bandwidth.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

I assume your saying this in the scope of PvE only and not WvW or PvP?

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

well… considering bleeding is bleeding, and the only thing changing is the number of stacks the server is tracking, I don’t see any major impact on pvp.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

well… considering bleeding is bleeding, and the only thing changing is the number of stacks the server is tracking, I don’t see any major impact on pvp.

Then my answer is no, personally I think that is a abysmal idea. Under the terms of your suggestion, all it will do, is double the amount of bleed damage on any given player. If the cape no longer exist, then you can put 50, 75, 100 bleeds on a player, using AoEs, that is unreasonable damage

Secondly, it will not effect the server load in the least. It will still have to reach each individual bleed and it’s duration, no it knows when the damage tic is increased or educes as individual bleeds timers drop off or new applications start.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

whoa, whoa, whoa….

it would have a huge impact on server load, because there would literally be half as many bleeds server wide. some level 12 in qeensdale stacking bleeds is taxing the server….

…but I concede to your point about players taking 50 stacks of bleeding, so yeah, a 12 bleed cap for players seems reasonable to me, and still 25 for bosses.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

That is not how it works. As each bleeds application, and duration, in respect to every other bleed in the stacked tick has to be tracked. Regardless of what you think, your suggest will have no positive effect on server load in the least. Similar suggestions have previously been discussed. The devs have already previously broken this down, and explained it, when those similar ideas were mentioned. You may not want to believe it. I am simply telling you what the devs have already explained on the mater, and how it effects servers and there information load. Whether or not your chose to believe these facts, is your choice.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

ok…. how can first auto attack 1 bleed for 6 seconds, second auto attack second bleed for 6 seconds, be the same as auto attack (no bleed), second auto attack 1 bleed?

it’s half as many stacks of bleeding being applied per person, server wide.

we aren’t talking about one boss, we are talking about every mob currently being killed in the game.

currently my mesmer can stack 20 bleeds on a mob, I propose that my mesmer should only be able to stack 10 bleeds, but that the bleeds are twice as powerful.

fire is a perfect example. it’s only one stack for the server to track, but it’s 4 times stronger than one stack of bleeding.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

Burning stacks 5 times right? or was it 9?

Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

The issue with sending the data has nothing to do with how many bleeds exist serverwide.

Also, considering that our servers are sharded, someone in Queensdale has no effect on someone in Orr. Heck, with the Megaservers, people in different instances of Queensdale won’t affect each other.

The problem arises from the amount of data that has to be sent in real-time to all the players involved in a large boss encounter. Your suggestion would do nothing to reduce that load. What your suggestion would do, however, is double the bleed damage at cap and make it easier to condi specs to ramp up to full damage (since you’re doubling their starting damage and speed of application).

And the thing is, your suggestion wouldn’t work. You can’t “halve” odd numbers of stacks. Not to mention halving skills that are not part of a chain and only apply 1 stack already.

(edited by Olba.5376)

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

what happens to things like grenades 2, where each nade applies 1 bleed currently? do you halve the duration to compensate for doubling the ticks? do you remake the skill into a single toss that puts out 1-2 bleeds, making damage spikes against players much easier since currently 1-2 nades of the 3 may miss randomly due to spread?

as for autos (im thinking about warrior sword here), what happens if the skill remains a 3 chain, but you consolidate the bleeds onto 1 part of the chain? where do you place the bleeds to ensure players have a use for the entire chain, instead of pushing 1 and cancelling the rest in favor of doing something else because you get no more significant damage out of the rest of the chain? most autos are fairly well balanced as is with respect to pvp, adding in more condis is an uncompensated buff, and allowing quicker (condi) spikes leads to more frantic gameplay (such as we used to have with full zerk thieves spiking anyone down with a couple backstabs). imo, a cripple isnt a very commanding reason to keep swinging if all the bleeds are already on the enemy with the first strike, and id rather swing, impale, swing, f1, swing and spike like 15 double damage bleeds for an insane tick. because its hard to justify stalling someone when you can just kill them instead. but then if you put the bleed on the 2nd auto chain and nothing on the 1st, would you ever pukitten all? you would have to spend 2x the time of any other skill that applies condis, so maybe itd be worth it, but it would feel really bad compared to how it feels right now.

i can throw forward basically the same argument for necro scepter, they dont exactly need the poison from the 3rd auto as they have copious other ways to apply poison… so where would the bleeding go and would it feel as balanced as it does now with a bleed on either the 1st or 2nd auto chain?

dont take this as poo-pooing your idea, take it as questions you would prolly need to answer as a person on the balance team.

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

This suggestion. LMAO.. my sides.

Every ability that applies one bleed will basically be twice as strong, seeing as it wouldn’t be possible for each attack to do a half bleed as you proposed.

Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh

(edited by Chaith.8256)

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

There would need to be a lot of tuning needed to be done. Some skills could have a 50% chance to apply bleeding or have their duration cut in half….

for warrior sword chain I like the thought of 1-swing vulnerability, 2-swing bleeding, 3-swing cripple…. but that’s just me.

the point is, the Devs talk about bleeding as if it is a gigantic burden on the servers, and yet tons of skills give out multiple stacks of bleeding, so why not take the time to re-work all of the skills that cause bleeding.

…and some of these minor traits that cause bleeding can just go away.

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

There would need to be a lot of tuning needed to be done. Some skills could have a 50% chance to apply bleeding or have their duration cut in half….

for warrior sword chain I like the thought of 1-swing vulnerability, 2-swing bleeding, 3-swing cripple…. but that’s just me.

the point is, the Devs talk about bleeding as if it is a gigantic burden on the servers, and yet tons of skills give out multiple stacks of bleeding, so why not take the time to re-work all of the skills that cause bleeding.

…and some of these minor traits that cause bleeding can just go away.

Seems to me the OP didn’t put much thought into it before posting.

I dunno why, but you appear to me to have a pattern of present half truths in your post. I have never seen the devs suggesting bleed is any more or less problematic for the servers. I only see you suggesting that. They have very clearly suggested it is all stacking conditions.

You keep making post, claims, and statements that counter what the devs have posted and explained. Perhaps it would be in everyone’s best interest, if you took the time to read a bit, and at least study the subject matter before trying trying to make claims about it.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

From Colin Johanson, Game Director for Guild Wars 2.

“Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could, say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.”

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

in Profession Balance

Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

From Colin Johanson, Game Director for Guild Wars 2.

“Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could, say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.”

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

Exactly. This is a detailed explanation of why the OPs idea is horrible.

Nothing the OP mentioned, suggested anything about lowering stack caps, duration or what the stack is.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ezeriel.9574

Ezeriel.9574

From Colin Johanson, Game Director for Guild Wars 2.

“Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could, say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.”

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

Exactly. This is a detailed explanation of why the OPs idea is horrible.

Nothing the OP mentioned, suggested anything about lowering stack caps, duration or what the stack is.

what part of the OP suggesting that stacks of bleeding being cut in half are you not understanding?

The only way to play the engineer is to exploit it.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

in Profession Balance

Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

From Colin Johanson, Game Director for Guild Wars 2.

“Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could, say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.”

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

Exactly. This is a detailed explanation of why the OPs idea is horrible.

Nothing the OP mentioned, suggested anything about lowering stack caps, duration or what the stack is.

what part of the OP suggesting that stacks of bleeding being cut in half are you not understanding?

The part where it never mentions changing the stacks caps. Your OP literally still says

would still be bleed capped at 25

You are literally changing absolutely nothing other the doubling the damage of bleeds. Causing a call for re-balancing to every weapon set or skill in the game with a bleed on it.

Thus the system still has to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is, and what the stack is. The same exact things that Colin mentions are the problem. I am baffled how you think anything changes when the 3 points he mad stay the same.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

(edited by coglin.1867)

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

Bleed isn’t supposed to be strong, and there are attacks which do 1 stack of bleed at a time. Bleed is supposed to be the weak condition which can be stacked easily. Sure, if you’re looking at all those skills which put 2 stacks or so on a target alone, it might not be a bad change. The problem is that bleed is part of many synergies where multiple hits will stack bleeding. Take for example Mesmer’s iDuelist+Sharp Images. This would essentially double the… wait, what am I talking about. I’m a Mesmer, why would I care? I’ll tell you why. Once you make these bleed-stacking skills and traits overpowered, the result will either be nerfs on bleed or nerfs on the traits or class, therefore why this isn’t the best of ideas.

Suggestion: 2 stacks of bleeds = 1 bleed

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Posted by: Ragnar the Rock.3174

Ragnar the Rock.3174

What if instead of increasing the scaling & reducing the stacks applied you instead reduced the duration of bleeds applied & increased the scaling.

For instance what if they reduced the duration of all bleeds by around say 30ish % but increased the scaling by the same amount so that damage stays the same.

This would reduce the amount of bleeds a small group can keep up on a target, but keep their damage potential the same.

I admit however it would make the ramp up of condition classes somewhat faster.