TPvP - Balance (Shaving the Meta)

TPvP - Balance (Shaving the Meta)

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

Hi, many are aware and already know what needs to be changed in terms of balance. Currently the meta is ruled by few classes while others have a hard time. My list of changes is directed at them classes. Also some changes to Sigils.

Engineer

  • IP – Options one make it 20 seconds CD Option two change to Master tier in Firearms.
  • Speedy Kits – Reduced to 5 seconds or only works in combat (like every other class).

Elementalist

  • Arcane Fury – increase CD to 10 seconds.
  • Renewing Stamina – increase CD to 15 seconds.
  • Soothing Wave – increase CD 15 seconds.

Warrior

  • For Great Justice! – 3/4 cast time.
  • Fear Me – 3/4 cast time.
  • Pin Down – Bleeds stacks reduced to 5 and duration to 8 seconds.

Sigils

  • Doom – Duration reduced to 5 seconds.
  • Battle – Duration reduced to 10 seconds.
  • Intelligence – Reduced to next ONE attack.

Now I know these change’s won’t bring everything back into the meta but it sure is going to help. They might not seem like big changes or game changing but deal with it. Some of us players would like to start using our class to fill the roll which these 3 classes are destroying.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

So you nerf these so the other classes will become better? Not trying to be snarky or anything, but nerfing these won’t suddenly bring others into “the meta”. There is a reason that the others aren’t in “the meta”. Necros for example, they don’t bring anything to the table that any other profession can’t do better. Their boons applications are extreamly limited, and mostly on self, and offer next to nothing for a party. Rangers, while they do excell at range, they are mostly worthless in melee. Thieves I believe are actually in the meta, as the have high burst damage, and superior mobility and can offer some great team support. Mesmers I don’t know a ton about, but it’s also nice to have one on your team, and are a pain in the backside to fight against. Guardians also offer some great group boons as well as condi removal, and healing.

While I do think that there can be some tweaking to bring more to having the classes balanced, but I don’t think a hard nerf like these to these paticular classes is going to do much to bring balance. Thats just me though.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

So you nerf these so the other classes will become better? Not trying to be snarky or anything, but nerfing these won’t suddenly bring others into “the meta”. There is a reason that the others aren’t in “the meta”. Necros for example, they don’t bring anything to the table that any other profession can’t do better.

You’re entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong. Haha. Nothing drops the atomic bomb on someone as fast as Necro when it +1’s a fight.

Forum Lord Chaith
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Posted by: Booms.2594

Booms.2594

why did you put nerfs for warrior who dont need nerfs?

gerdian

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

why did you put nerfs for warrior who dont need nerfs?

Rather simple, Ele and Engineer are keeping Warrior in check atm. If you nerf Engi and Ele all of sudden Warrior goes back to being King of the Backpoint and Roaming. Sorry but I would rather see more then one class being good at a roll.

Also how is adding counter play to Fear Me not good, currently random dodge and random effects are only options you have to counter play it. Doesn’t that seem mindless and stupid to you.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

So instead of giving everybody something new and fun to play, you want to nerf everything into the ground to fit your skill-level.

Thank god that this forum is about to get purged tomorrow.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

  • Speedy Kits – Reduced to 5 seconds or only works in combat (like every other class).

can you elaborate on this? it seems random.

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Jesus, you give for great justice and fear me a 3/4.
good job killing the build, now warrior will be using stance only for real this time.
what, next you are going to give stance a cast time right?

you barely even nerfed ele and you give fgj and fear me a 3/4 for christ sake.
why don’t you give cleansing fire a freaking cast time and lighting flash a freaking cast time, earth armor a freaking cast time. and all those aura a freaking cast time.

jesus, this is so horrible, not even real.

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

@Arantheal.7396, please explain how these nerfs everything into the ground.

@Simon.3794, you made me lol, I honestly don’t think you even understand how to use your shouts correctly. Suppose having counter play to skills with no counter play effects your mindless spamming. Learn to combo if they added 3/4 cast to fear me you could easy combo that off other skills. God I hate people simple minded as you. You do understand only thing keeping warrior from being the best class is Engi and Ele atm.

@insanemaniac.2456, I figured I would get more hate for that change, there is big reason behind it. Engineers would have to be one of if not most mobile class in Team PvP. Most classes require being in combat or only get 50% duration upkeep on swiftness. Now this change opens up other classes to filling rolls on teams E.g. Engineers if your home point and roamer having perma swiftness and combo’ed with rifle + elixir gun gap closer’s just gives the class unreal mobile abilities. Now rather then trying to shave everything, why not bring there swiftness more in line with every other single class.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: xDudisx.5914

xDudisx.5914

Hi, many are aware and already know what needs to be changed in terms of balance. Currently the meta is ruled by few classes while others have a hard time. My list of changes is directed at them classes. Also some changes to Sigils.

Engineer

  • IP – Options one make it 20 seconds CD Option two change to Master tier in Firearms.
  • Speedy Kits – Reduced to 5 seconds or only works in combat (like every other class).

Elementalist

  • Arcane Fury – increase CD to 10 seconds.
  • Renewing Stamina – increase CD to 15 seconds.
  • Soothing Wave – increase CD 15 seconds.

Warrior

  • For Great Justice! – 3/4 cast time.
  • Fear Me – 3/4 cast time.
  • Pin Down – Bleeds stacks reduced to 5 and duration to 8 seconds.

Sigils

  • Doom – Duration reduced to 5 seconds.
  • Battle – Duration reduced to 10 seconds.
  • Intelligence – Reduced to next ONE attack.

Now I know these change’s won’t bring everything back into the meta but it sure is going to help. They might not seem like big changes or game changing but deal with it. Some of us players would like to start using our class to fill the roll which these 3 classes are destroying.

*Engineer:
-speed is ok
-you are suggesting an overnerf to IP

*Elementalist:
-the class has small hp and light armor and you want to nerf its sustain to the ground, terrible suggestions

*Warrior:
-put a cast in the shout is the worst idea I saw in a long time in this foruns, the nature of the shouts skills is have no cast time
-pin down is very telegraphed and hasalready got a nerf on cast time

*Sigils:
-Doom: it is ok the way it is
-Battle also ok, not everyone has extra boon duration.
-Intelligence: if you make it 1 stack most people or everyone will stop using it.

The real problematic classes are the extremes of bunker and spike dmg not the celestial average classes. When every class is viable as a hybrid the game will be perfect.

Also your suggestions would completely break the other aspects of the game like wvw/pve for warrior

Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]

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Posted by: wolverine.5164

wolverine.5164

this guy sol is an kittened or simply a new player, witch ever is pls ignore he comments and/or suggestions. thank you.

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Posted by: xDudisx.5914

xDudisx.5914

this guy sol is an kittened or simply a new player, witch ever is pls ignore he comments and/or suggestions. thank you.

Or maybe sol is trolling. Lets stop feeding the troll.

Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

I will wait for someone who knows what there talking about to comment.

Yes I’m a new players started game last week…….

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

I can’t get behind most of these changes. Shouts are fundementally instant, giving them a cast time would be really anti-fun and unintended. Shout Warriors already get ping pong’d around, anyways, I’d rather Warriors not have to attempt casting mega long shoutsin addition.

Pin Down does not need to be nerfed anymore, please and thanks. It’s quite avoidable now, and able to be played around.

Engineer’s out of combat mobility is not OP. It’s inferior to the meta Warrior, Ele, Thief, already. I don’t know why Speedy Kits would be targeted.

Also, please try to target your nerfs to the Elementalist profession better. Arcane Fury and Renewing Stamina are used by all, D/D Cele Ele or not.

I’m fine with Sigils getting toned down across the board, I feel the Sigil re-vamp was overall good for the variety, but created an increase in base pressure/sustain. However, your suggestions only target Doom and Battle. Air/Fire would need an adjustment too.

Forum Lord Chaith
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Posted by: Arantheal.7396

Arantheal.7396

@ Sol:
Nope, I don’t want to explain you every aspect of why the balance is fine as it is (even tho, I’m not a necro-player, but I’d really love to see some buffs for the class).
Today this sub-forum will vanish, so I don’t see a reason to feed a (1 week old – lol) troll.

Engineer is love, Engineer is life.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

“i getz pinned downed every tim!”

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

@Chaith.8256, see when they nerf ele and engi which they will, you should know Warrior is going to become a problem well the Shout Warrior that is. It’s going to be new OP build.

Perma Swiftness/Regen/Vigor, no class should have this. Sorry but Speed Kit’s fell under the perma swiftness. If you want perma swiftness should be forced into taking Skills over Trait’s. Passive vs Active always been big topic.

Sigils need a change atm only sigils you ever see used are, Geo/Doom/Air/Fire/Battle/Int. Rarely see any of the other sigils being used.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

@Chaith.8256, see when they nerf ele and engi which they will, you should know Warrior is going to become a problem well the Shout Warrior that is. It’s going to be new OP build.

Perma Swiftness/Regen/Vigor, no class should have this. Sorry but Speed Kit’s fell under the perma swiftness. If you want perma swiftness should be forced into taking Skills over Trait’s. Passive vs Active always been big topic.

Sigils need a change atm only sigils you ever see used are, Geo/Doom/Air/Fire/Battle/Int. Rarely see any of the other sigils being used.

Ok you are saying lots of things that are misguiding.

You don’t know that Engies and Eles will be nerfed to the point where they can’t compete with Warriors. If Anet is intelligent about it, a shave to D/D Eles and Cele Engies will be all that’s necessary. Don’t anticipate they will be gutted and you will need to gut Warrior too.

It’s arbitrary as hell for you to say ‘no profession should have ways to achieve perma X boon’. Why does it have to be that way except for because you say so? Some professions get around with a ton of movement abilities, some with swiftness, and some with a combination. Tons, if not all of the professions have perma boon options when set up with the Boon Duration tree and the appropriate weapons/utilities. Lots of them are trash, even. But you’re basically saying they shouldn’t exist as soon as they’re also able to be picked up in a build that is actually good.

You’re not wrong on all things though, like, D/D Cele Cantrip Eles are slightly over-performing in sustained healing and condition removal, given that they can fight 1v2 better than anyone and 1v1 better than anyone, purely due to very strong sustain. A decrease to the frequency in which they get Regeneration (Cleansing Water procs) such as your Soothing Wave suggestion would be good… but make sure you’re doing things for the right reason.

Are meta Engies burning for too much uptime? I would say balanced up there with Eles, Warriors, and Guards. The meta Cele build has only IP for a burning source, meaning that it’s at maximum 52.5% uptime assuming it doesn’t get removed. If you’re referring to a Balthazar Engi with 6 points in condition duration, I encourage you to see what happens to burn when you do that with an Ele, Warrior, or Guard.

Are meta Engies too fast, out of combat? No. Stop suggesting balance changes to Speedy Kits based on boon uptime without context of the entire builds.

Are Eles critting too much? No. Stop suggesting nerfs to Fury uptime – the meta Ele relies on conditions too much as is, not crits or power damage – nerfs to Fury would merely set back power focused Eles even further.

Are Eles dodging too much? Arguable, I think no, so it’s not clear that hacking off vigor access is a good way to proceed. The Renewing Stamina nerf you propose is not that strange to be suggested, but too harsh. Shave, not third degree razorburn pls.

Do meta Shout Warrior builds make you hate your life when playing them? No. So stop trying to make that happen.

Sigil changes: Sure. But you’re incredibly shortsighted to not acknowledge Air/Fire combos on Zerker professions. People still play Thief and Mesmer. And they are good – I recommend you sign off the forums and let Helseth cast his stow-weapon auto attack on you, bombarding your face with Air and Fire sigil procs.

Forum Lord Chaith
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