Guild Wars 2

Ok i claimed warriors are OP and anybody can play one decently without having every played the class before. they can make a bad player look decent or better. basically the class is the beginners class (not in the sense they arent high end playable…just in the sense its a safe class bc u have MUCH room for mistakes and still succeed).

Another in game player (thief/warrior were his to pro classes…mainly warrior) claimed the opposite. warriors arefine. not OP at all.

I said lets test it. i have never ever….seriously…ever even created a warrior. i just hate the whole “hulk smash” type of characters, they just dont appeal to me. point is i suck at warrior and could never be good if i duel without some time on the class. so i challenged himto a 1v1 , his thief (d/p general blind backstab build) vs a warrior i would make up on the spot. he accepts.

i make 0 0 30 10 30 warrior with full zerk gear and lyssa runes (crit) while using GS/LB with energy sigils. Basically my build had 23k hp. 3100 attack. 1500 toughness. very very high condi removal. very nice hp regen (410 per sec plus every 3 secs few hundred more from adrenaline), and great dmg with regular burns. a very strong well rounded build. i used ENDURE PAIN and HEALING SIGNET and DOLYAK SIGNET OF STAMINA. im sure most of you are familiar w/ it.

match one i win 40% hp left

match 2 i win 85% hp left

match 3 i win 100% hp left

each match took 45-1min 15 seconds. obvouisly i missed alot and fumbled and bumbled so im sure most could do it faster. hes not the best thief in the world but id give him a 7.5 out of 10 on the perfection scale. just to be fair and keep this in perspective. id guess i was like a 1.5 or 2 out of 10. i was clicking all the skills with mouse and reading them as fighting. popping all my signets when i shouldnt have been (figured that out after first battle which is why my left over HP went up so high).

i wanted to go against other classes he has never played so it would have been a real experiment. nub vs nub so its more focused on class ability rather than personal skill. he wanted to play warrior vs warrior which i declined bc u cant test OP’ness on same class battle. OP vs OP = even. OP vs UP(underpowered) = obvious winner.

anyway what do you guys think of this. i can try it again and get video or even with a diff opponent to prove the point. but i think warrior is OP …by alot. they lead or almost lead most categories in game, dmg, hp, toughness. armor, condi removal etc. very high ranked in everything and i dont see many weaknesses other than mobility which is why i added the sigils of energy and using 5 sec swap.

how OP do you think warrior is or is not, with consideration of this and your own experiences. i know alot of you can BEAT warriors. i can too on my thief. they are not impossible. but def OP. dont think always 1v1 either. think in battle. think about running thru AOE. think about gap closing or sprinting (warrior currently is number 1 and thief close 2nd atleast up to 3k distance) etc etc.

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

Interceptor.2653:

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

not to play “point-counterpoint” with you but the build literally had half a dozen ways of dropping conditions. some thru utility. somethru adrenaline. some thru 2 traits. and all thru lyssa runes. p/d wouldntohave done much. need 7 stacks of bleed justto get inthe positive.

Travlane.5948:

not to play “point-counterpoint” with you but the build literally had half a dozen ways of dropping conditions. some thru utility. somethru adrenaline. some thru 2 traits. and all thru lyssa runes. p/d wouldntohave done much. need 7 stacks of bleed justto get inthe positive.

Warrior doesn’t have enough condition clear to deal with the rate that Thieves can re-apply, and your bleed estimate is just objectively wrong. Suppose we have a Thief with primary condition damage everywhere, using condi food/nourishment. That put you at ~1700 condition damage, which means that Healing Signet’s regen is completely negated by any of the following:

1. three stacks of Bleeding (~382 damage per tick)
2. Poison (~ 254 damage per tick plus 33% reduced healing)
3. two stacks of Torment when moving (four without)

It’s trivial for a Thief to maintain any one of those, and in reality you are dealing with multiples. You can hang for a while, but eventually running negative sustain and burning condi cleanses will drain your health to the point where you’ll die to burst. Don’t forget that you’re taking damage from Sneak Attack and Shadow Strike, too.

This doesn’t even get into the realm of Perplexity runes, which is nightmare mode for Warriors to deal with, but easy for Thieves to take advantage of.

I don’t really believe any class in this game can clean conditions as fast as a P/D Thief can apply. Again that’s the whole point of the build after all.
(it’s not like you can stop a necromancer from aplying conditions on you either way).

Besides, the whole “This build can kill thiefs easily, that build can’t” is a endless discussion that we should not even start.

I bet there are builds of warrior that can kill a P/D Thief as easy.

^ There are undoubtedly Warrior builds that could “not die” to condition spec — maybe Hammer/Bow for some CC and range ability? — but a P/D Thief will just leave if they can’t win. We’re talking about a build that lives in stealth, here. Disengaging is a cinch.

exactly interceptor. its usually a run away. p/d is and d/p can getaway. but still warrior is too OP…atleast its getting toned down a lil (healing sig).

elite and 1 signetalone clearall conditions. after that is basically just bleeds and maybe poison/torment once in awhile. unless u have all 3 up at all times its not going to be much of a chance.

im 100% onthieves side here. imnot evenasking for a nerf. what i WOULD like is to buff us or unnerf most everything they F’d Up.

Warrior is strong in a 1v1 scenario because of all the passives it has. It has the highest HP pool in the game, highest armor rating, absurdly high HP regeneration, and arguably the best and most reliable condition removal in the game with cleansing ire and long bow. The simple fact that it can get all of this with only 1 weapon and 20 trait points means that it can spend the rest of its resources in offense and still be naturally defensive and survivable. This is the problem and this is wholly the problem. Professions shouldn’t be able to cover multiple defined and specific roles so proficiently.

I tried a little test of my own, as one day in solo queue I was getting completely wrecked by engineers, so I made my own and spent around 10 minutes learning all the skills. I went with a 30/0/0/30/10 spec and used rifle, tool kit, nades, and rocket boots and went in a few solo queues. I literally went to nades, spammed 5-2, and then kited around and all my opponents just burnt away. When I was being targeted, I just kited around throwing nades at my feet, and when I looked back the opponent was almost dead: I didn’t even realized I hit him. Tool kit and rifle gave me a ton of utility, CC, and survivability, healing turret and rocket boots combo gave me healing, condi removal, and mobility. I made my engineer literally an hour before and I felt like I was carrying my team more than my thief ever could.

The problem isn’t the professions, the problem is the passives in this game. They’re too strong. Conditions require little to no skill at all to execute and have more survivability than any other build, since they naturally spec into toughness and vitality. The only way to counter a condition build is to specifically build to counter it. You need to bring utilities and traits that deal with conditions. On the other hand, to deal with physical damage all you need to do is dodge the attack. This can be done with clever positioning, dodging, utilizing line of sight and the environment, or using skills to block, evade, avoid, or blind the attack, requiring no specific traits, utilities, or stats to counter. This is why conditions are so strong right now, and this is why the warrior specifically is so strong.

Warriors, with cleansing ire and long bow, have a reliable means to counter conditions and have the toughness, health pool, and health regeneration to deal with direct damage all with 1 weapon and 20 trait points. This is just plain bad balance.

Interceptor.2653:

^ There are undoubtedly Warrior builds that could “not die” to condition spec — maybe Hammer/Bow for some CC and range ability? — but a P/D Thief will just leave if they can’t win. We’re talking about a build that lives in stealth, here. Disengaging is a cinch.

That’s a completely different problem altogether.

I cannot see how a warrior can beat a d/p thief if both are equally skilled (maybe if both have no idea what they are doing). You can really abuse the blind.

apocom.3172:

I cannot see how a warrior can beat a d/p thief if both are equally skilled (maybe if both have no idea what they are doing). You can really abuse the blind.

Eventually the thief is going to eat a Pin Down to 100b. But Black Powder, Headshot, Shadow Step, Infiltrator’s Arrow (is using a SB) Condi removal when stealthed (if specced) would make easy work against that combo….

Now, P/D is different. Lose to a warrior? Should never happen. Beat one? If they stay to the death…. It will be a long fight, but equally played P/D had too many escapes and warrior skills are too easily telegraphed.

When you start adding other players… like a 3+ or whatever, is when the warriors get really scary. When you can’t watch the telegraphed moves and eat a 2 second stun, to a 2 second knockdown to a 1(ish) second knockback to a 1 second Shield Bash, 1 second daze into a skull crack… 1v1 no problem, Easy dodge/evasive skill on them all. It is why you don’t see Hammer and Mace/Shield roamers.

100% honest, I don’t beat a decent thief on my warrior 1v1.

Omnitek.3876:

apocom.3172:

I cannot see how a warrior can beat a d/p thief if both are equally skilled (maybe if both have no idea what they are doing). You can really abuse the blind.

Eventually the thief is going to eat a Pin Down to 100b. But Black Powder, Headshot, Shadow Step, Infiltrator’s Arrow (is using a SB) Condi removal when stealthed (if specced) would make easy work against that combo….

Now, P/D is different. Lose to a warrior? Should never happen. Beat one? If they stay to the death…. It will be a long fight, but equally played P/D had too many escapes and warrior skills are too easily telegraphed.

When you start adding other players… like a 3+ or whatever, is when the warriors get really scary. When you can’t watch the telegraphed moves and eat a 2 second stun, to a 2 second knockdown to a 1(ish) second knockback to a 1 second Shield Bash, 1 second daze into a skull crack… 1v1 no problem, Easy dodge/evasive skill on them all. It is why you don’t see Hammer and Mace/Shield roamers.

100% honest, I don’t beat a decent thief on my warrior 1v1.

ATM pin down has no notion that it’s about to come fyi.

Warrior just takes little to no skill to be “good” with it. Try applying the same experience to a new thief and you will quickly find how unforgiving it is. It’s good to have hard-to-play and easy-to-play classes as it adds some variety from just having new comers start 1v5’ing, but when you realize how that affects pvp balance is painful to sit through. I’ve killed hambow warriors numerous times on thief, but there are the few who do nothing but hambow and literally just run around the map regenerating and killing. Poison? Gets removed. Reapply? Gets removed again. The regen non-spec’ed is strong, that should change.

Interceptor.2653:

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

they are also nerfing chocke bomb which was counter to HS….

They fall like fly’s with p/d-d/d condi build !

Everyone knows (apart from warriors apparently) how strong warriors are.

I an go into pvp with my zerker ele and literally be one shotted by people, as having zero armour and 12k hp isn’t conducive to survival. I really tried on it, i tried staff/scepter, d/d zerker. Then even old fashioned dagger dagger with a survival spec. Sure i loved longer but I couldn’t even dent warriors.

So i get frustrated and load in my warrior, go standard spec, zerker, laugh as I notice the 20k hp even though i’ve put 0 in vitality and at most die maybe once a match whilst easily being able to kill and take nodes.

The passive heal from healing signet is 392. The heal from my eles signet is 168 per cast. You would think this would make more sense the other way around. Even if I spam lighting auto the total healed is less than 392. The active part is exactly the same for both signets.

So the ele healing signet is far worse that the warriors in every way. i don’t get it.

I can only apply to this as well.

I had the same experience , no clue of the warrior class outside of what you know when you fight against em.

I made one and jumped into soloq .
10:1 !!
After that i went back to my main and it was like ever before, you lose some you win some.

Its redicilous.
You can fail so much as warrior, your braindead condicleanse paired with the Op-Utils and you still too high damage for all that tankiness is just too much.

I just cannot understand how any player with half a brain can justify their Warrior OPness.

These ppls seriously should play something else, to get an idea of how it feels as any other profession. !

No one can justify the Warrior’s state right now. I decided to semi-roam (go off but not too too far from friendly towers and keeps) with my necromancer, fear-necro. Now as most of us surmise, necromancers are, or at least should be, the masters of conditions. Rapid application, removing, transferring heck even so far as eating them. I ran into a warrior and a mesmer who was uplvld. As expected the mesmer went down pretty quickly due to the conditions I was applying and tranferring back to her while simultaneously kiting away from the warrior. And you PD thieves need to understand it’s not playing conditions thats easier, it’s playing condition thief, that being said as a necromancer I had to use my only stun lock a couple times but mainly kited the warrior while focusing the mesmer.

Now pay attention, I said the mesmer went down I never got to finish her because the warrior would stop, go to rez and literally face tank all of my conditions. Even when I feared him off, his food buff of 40% decrease condi’s helped him a ton. Now I looked at my combat feed and did in fact see I was hitting him with major spells a necro would use Grasping dead, Marks, spectral wall even enfeebling blood. Despite the punishment he took, I never once saw his health go less than 10%. I had him targeted the whole time to watch his health while using aoe’s on the mesmer. His passives were cleansing and outhealing my condition damage. This is unacceptable. Granted I did have to split attention between him and another, his health should’ve at least taken a dent but not even that was given. So yeah, I ended up biting the dust. It doesn’t make sense how a class can blindly run at you the whole time and not get punished for it.

Remove passive healing from the game and this problem will be solved.

Everyone would probably throw a fit, but it shouldn’t exist in the first place. You can’t counter play something you can’t stop.

next time play blind with autoattack and target nearest

phaeris.7604:

Everyone knows (apart from warriors apparently) how strong warriors are.

I an go into pvp with my zerker ele and literally be one shotted by people, .

What class cant decimate you on a Zerker Ele..

I mean..

At least be reasonable..

A thief will two shot you on a squishy ele..

A mesmer wont even be phased by your damage because pretty much most of it wont land on the real one.

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

I don’t mind that a class is easy to play. It’s how effective it can be at said ease that is the problem.

Interceptor.2653:

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

When’s the last time anyone’s ever played a condition P/D outside of duel servers or WvW? I think the OP is referencing a PvP perspective here, and playing that build is absurd in that game type. Especially tPvP.

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that P/D was being played in a tPvP match. If I’m the Warrior, I’m going to sit on my point (because you’ll never contest it camping stealth) and call for some help to chase you off or kill you, assuming you don’t mess up and I can’t do it myself. You just wasted a few minutes of the match, and didn’t even neutralize the point. Oops.

More on topic, Warrior sustain is insane and should be toned down. But trying to counter the argument by referencing a niche build clearly meant for another gametype is just cherrypicking.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

not to play “point-counterpoint” with you but the build literally had half a dozen ways of dropping conditions. some thru utility. somethru adrenaline. some thru 2 traits. and all thru lyssa runes. p/d wouldntohave done much. need 7 stacks of bleed justto get inthe positive.

Warrior doesn’t have enough condition clear to deal with the rate that Thieves can re-apply, and your bleed estimate is just objectively wrong. Suppose we have a Thief with primary condition damage everywhere, using condi food/nourishment. That put you at ~1700 condition damage, which means that Healing Signet’s regen is completely negated by any of the following:

1. three stacks of Bleeding (~382 damage per tick)
2. Poison (~ 254 damage per tick plus 33% reduced healing)
3. two stacks of Torment when moving (four without)

It’s trivial for a Thief to maintain any one of those, and in reality you are dealing with multiples. You can hang for a while, but eventually running negative sustain and burning condi cleanses will drain your health to the point where you’ll die to burst. Don’t forget that you’re taking damage from Sneak Attack and Shadow Strike, too.

This doesn’t even get into the realm of Perplexity runes, which is nightmare mode for Warriors to deal with, but easy for Thieves to take advantage of.

This is clearly using WvW stats and should be discarded, assuming the OP means a PvP perspective.

In WvW, healing signet is fine due to the inflated stats and damage values.

Duka.5864:

They fall like fly’s with p/d-d/d condi build !

See above.

I like that the engire discussion is betwee thief warrior. As if either of those c,lasses could be a measure of whats balanced right now.

Jackmo.3428:

I like that the engire discussion is betwee thief warrior. As if either of those c,lasses could be a measure of whats balanced right now.

Well it started on the thief forum so yup

when i made this post. i meant OP is…

a class than is… (1st = tied or 1st by themselves)

1st in HP
1st in toughness
1st in Armor
1st in dmg
1st in distance mobility
1st in weaponswap times
1st in healing
1st condition removal

and has invuln/blocks/protection/aegis(rarely)/blocks and the whole nine yards.

yes most classes can accel at a few things. althought they cant do what a warrior can all at the same time.

the warrior build i used was full zerk (well it had 30 in tougheness line so almost full zerk) and had insane heal insane dmg insane condi removal insane mobility insane EVERYTHING. that is op.

you give my thief…. all of these qualities and take away stealth….the GW2 community would be in an uproar. OP thief waaaa. but only way that would happen is if ANET plays thief…which they dont so apparently.

Travlane.5948:

Ok i claimed warriors are OP and anybody can play one decently without having every played the class before. they can make a bad player look decent or better. basically the class is the beginners class (not in the sense they arent high end playable…just in the sense its a safe class bc u have MUCH room for mistakes and still succeed).

Another in game player (thief/warrior were his to pro classes…mainly warrior) claimed the opposite. warriors arefine. not OP at all.

I said lets test it. i have never ever….seriously…ever even created a warrior. i just hate the whole “hulk smash” type of characters, they just dont appeal to me. point is i suck at warrior and could never be good if i duel without some time on the class. so i challenged himto a 1v1 , his thief (d/p general blind backstab build) vs a warrior i would make up on the spot. he accepts.

i make 0 0 30 10 30 warrior with full zerk gear and lyssa runes (crit) while using GS/LB with energy sigils. Basically my build had 23k hp. 3100 attack. 1500 toughness. very very high condi removal. very nice hp regen (410 per sec plus every 3 secs few hundred more from adrenaline), and great dmg with regular burns. a very strong well rounded build. i used ENDURE PAIN and HEALING SIGNET and DOLYAK SIGNET OF STAMINA. im sure most of you are familiar w/ it.

match one i win 40% hp left

match 2 i win 85% hp left

match 3 i win 100% hp left

each match took 45-1min 15 seconds. obvouisly i missed alot and fumbled and bumbled so im sure most could do it faster. hes not the best thief in the world but id give him a 7.5 out of 10 on the perfection scale. just to be fair and keep this in perspective. id guess i was like a 1.5 or 2 out of 10. i was clicking all the skills with mouse and reading them as fighting. popping all my signets when i shouldnt have been (figured that out after first battle which is why my left over HP went up so high).

i wanted to go against other classes he has never played so it would have been a real experiment. nub vs nub so its more focused on class ability rather than personal skill. he wanted to play warrior vs warrior which i declined bc u cant test OP’ness on same class battle. OP vs OP = even. OP vs UP(underpowered) = obvious winner.

anyway what do you guys think of this. i can try it again and get video or even with a diff opponent to prove the point. but i think warrior is OP …by alot. they lead or almost lead most categories in game, dmg, hp, toughness. armor, condi removal etc. very high ranked in everything and i dont see many weaknesses other than mobility which is why i added the sigils of energy and using 5 sec swap.

how OP do you think warrior is or is not, with consideration of this and your own experiences. i know alot of you can BEAT warriors. i can too on my thief. they are not impossible. but def OP. dont think always 1v1 either. think in battle. think about running thru AOE. think about gap closing or sprinting (warrior currently is number 1 and thief close 2nd atleast up to 3k distance) etc etc.

I believe Mesmers are more of the class you are describing…and you still have a general idea of what kind of build to put together, this does not deem you a “new player”.

Travlane.5948:

when i made this post. i meant OP is…

a class than is… (1st = tied or 1st by themselves)

1st in HP
1st in toughness
1st in Armor
1st in dmg
1st in distance mobility
1st in weaponswap times
1st in healing
1st condition removal

and has invuln/blocks/protection/aegis(rarely)/blocks and the whole nine yards.

yes most classes can accel at a few things. althought they cant do what a warrior can all at the same time.

the warrior build i used was full zerk (well it had 30 in tougheness line so almost full zerk) and had insane heal insane dmg insane condi removal insane mobility insane EVERYTHING. that is op.

you give my thief…. all of these qualities and take away stealth….the GW2 community would be in an uproar. OP thief waaaa. but only way that would happen is if ANET plays thief…which they dont so apparently.

and I don’t think they’re going to be putting this post into consideration when you call out an entire profession, not one aspect, but you called out many aspects that are supposedly “OP”

Interceptor.2653:

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

Well the average human is an idiot, in the world as in any guildwars gamemode. So giving any (preferably PvE guy) a build that is the strongest and easy to play is super bad, since they will spread like a plague. And they already are, 2 is min, 4 warrs in a random tourny is almost normal.
Like the only ones who try warrior and quit, are actualy players who feel disgusted by it.

Dont know why u bring p/d thief up in a balance discussion. Its a troll build which cant die but doesnt affect bigger score of wvw, and a build which shouldnt die but loses too much time off-point for it to be worth sending in pvp.

Why haven’t they merged all these threads yet?

i actually made hambow build on my war as backup for soloq… so…forgiving to play

idk how this is still allowed after so many months…

All this thread proves that was not already known is that the ‘other player’ is bad.

Warrior is easy to start with.

At high levels, you get owned against a LOT of classes.

and that is why we see multiple warriors at high end arena….mkay

Jelzouki.4128:

Travlane.5948:

Ok i claimed warriors are OP and anybody can play one decently without having every played the class before. they can make a bad player look decent or better. basically the class is the beginners class (not in the sense they arent high end playable…just in the sense its a safe class bc u have MUCH room for mistakes and still succeed).

Another in game player (thief/warrior were his to pro classes…mainly warrior) claimed the opposite. warriors arefine. not OP at all.

I said lets test it. i have never ever….seriously…ever even created a warrior. i just hate the whole “hulk smash” type of characters, they just dont appeal to me. point is i suck at warrior and could never be good if i duel without some time on the class. so i challenged himto a 1v1 , his thief (d/p general blind backstab build) vs a warrior i would make up on the spot. he accepts.

i make 0 0 30 10 30 warrior with full zerk gear and lyssa runes (crit) while using GS/LB with energy sigils. Basically my build had 23k hp. 3100 attack. 1500 toughness. very very high condi removal. very nice hp regen (410 per sec plus every 3 secs few hundred more from adrenaline), and great dmg with regular burns. a very strong well rounded build. i used ENDURE PAIN and HEALING SIGNET and DOLYAK SIGNET OF STAMINA. im sure most of you are familiar w/ it.

match one i win 40% hp left

match 2 i win 85% hp left

match 3 i win 100% hp left

each match took 45-1min 15 seconds. obvouisly i missed alot and fumbled and bumbled so im sure most could do it faster. hes not the best thief in the world but id give him a 7.5 out of 10 on the perfection scale. just to be fair and keep this in perspective. id guess i was like a 1.5 or 2 out of 10. i was clicking all the skills with mouse and reading them as fighting. popping all my signets when i shouldnt have been (figured that out after first battle which is why my left over HP went up so high).

i wanted to go against other classes he has never played so it would have been a real experiment. nub vs nub so its more focused on class ability rather than personal skill. he wanted to play warrior vs warrior which i declined bc u cant test OP’ness on same class battle. OP vs OP = even. OP vs UP(underpowered) = obvious winner.

anyway what do you guys think of this. i can try it again and get video or even with a diff opponent to prove the point. but i think warrior is OP …by alot. they lead or almost lead most categories in game, dmg, hp, toughness. armor, condi removal etc. very high ranked in everything and i dont see many weaknesses other than mobility which is why i added the sigils of energy and using 5 sec swap.

how OP do you think warrior is or is not, with consideration of this and your own experiences. i know alot of you can BEAT warriors. i can too on my thief. they are not impossible. but def OP. dont think always 1v1 either. think in battle. think about running thru AOE. think about gap closing or sprinting (warrior currently is number 1 and thief close 2nd atleast up to 3k distance) etc etc.

I believe Mesmers are more of the class you are describing…and you still have a general idea of what kind of build to put together, this does not deem you a “new player”.

warrior/mesmer/guardian. the 3 classes anet loves the most without argument. i agree. while warrior…like i said…has the biggest nub factor bc you can aford many mistakes….mesmer u cant afford as many by far. however mesmer the AI usually does 75% of the dmg and the player only 25% so yes mesmers are cheese most of the time. they both are OP in their own way but just different

Jelzouki.4128:

Travlane.5948:

when i made this post. i meant OP is…

a class than is… (1st = tied or 1st by themselves)

1st in HP
1st in toughness
1st in Armor
1st in dmg
1st in distance mobility
1st in weaponswap times
1st in healing
1st condition removal

and has invuln/blocks/protection/aegis(rarely)/blocks and the whole nine yards.

yes most classes can accel at a few things. althought they cant do what a warrior can all at the same time.

the warrior build i used was full zerk (well it had 30 in tougheness line so almost full zerk) and had insane heal insane dmg insane condi removal insane mobility insane EVERYTHING. that is op.

you give my thief…. all of these qualities and take away stealth….the GW2 community would be in an uproar. OP thief waaaa. but only way that would happen is if ANET plays thief…which they dont so apparently.

and I don’t think they’re going to be putting this post into consideration when you call out an entire profession, not one aspect, but you called out many aspects that are supposedly “OP”

thank you for proving my point.

can you name me any other class that is as high in EVERY aspect. that can do everything with ONE build? no? ok point proven ty!!!!!

see your problem of comprehension is in your definition. OP does not = 1 aspect of a class. but it can mean the overall combination of aspects. would i care if warrior has healing signet and moderate tolow condi removal? no that would be fair. but HIGHest condi removal and highest hp regen? cmon thats a lil much. ok now lets look at his dmg…he can do as much dmg as a thief…..and still have 23-24k hp and super high toughness and highest armor in game. see if you look at any 1 aspect its not OP but when you combine it turns into a superpower.

again…. try to change your understanding of what OP means. its incorrect.

Cygnus.6903:

All this thread proves that was not already known is that the ‘other player’ is bad.

Warrior is easy to start with.

At high levels, you get owned against a LOT of classes.

that is so wrong. well u are arguably correct in the sense most BAD players play warriors. not that most warriors are bad. your premise is wrong. even a bad player on warrior will do well. that doesnt mean he will win most of his matches….but he will be competitive tos ay the least. u put them on anengineeror thieve they are a free bag.

most people in high end spvp/wvw/tpvp play warriors. much more so than ANY other class. this is not coincidence.

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Travlane.5948:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Just because you play class for a long time doesnt mean your are good with it.
You statements sounds like this –
yesterday i played thief for the first time, was on top score always, never died, always killed people in me versus 3 fights not dropping below 80% hp.
thief is way OP. They should remove any healing spell, change stealth that taking damage reveals thief, remove half on initiative points.

Nothing new here, Warriors have always been OP vs Nubs. Even Nub warriors are OP vs Nubs. Get good players playing vs other good players that know their builds and the Warrior is not OP anymore.

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Just because you play class for a long time doesnt mean your are good with it.
You statements sounds like this –
yesterday i played thief for the first time, was on top score always, never died, always killed people in me versus 3 fights not dropping below 80% hp.
thief is way OP. They should remove any healing spell, change stealth that taking damage reveals thief, remove half on initiative points.

That comparison doesn’t really help because the comparison he is making is that of his experience with, I’m assuming his main class, versus that of a class he has no familiarity with being far more successful. Meaning to say that he was more easily rewarded for the class he spent one day on versus the class he, assuming, spent one year on.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Just because you play class for a long time doesnt mean your are good with it.
You statements sounds like this –
yesterday i played thief for the first time, was on top score always, never died, always killed people in me versus 3 fights not dropping below 80% hp.
thief is way OP. They should remove any healing spell, change stealth that taking damage reveals thief, remove half on initiative points.

That comparison doesn’t really help because the comparison he is making is that of his experience with, I’m assuming his main class, versus that of a class he has no familiarity with being far more successful. Meaning to say that he was more easily rewarded for the class he spent one day on versus the class he, assuming, spent one year on.

It makes complete sense. He spouts random nonsense and technically he has to “provide” evidence or some proof ( general rule in evidence, because for other side it would be near impossible to do so).
Yet he writes random facts and we have to believe it? Believe my statement of thiefs then, same proof as his.
This forums is full on whiners and people who are horrible at pvp yet they want to kill others without any skill or time investment to actually improve.

Going to leave this here…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w

Look at the stats of that spec (change to exotics if you wish to, but it won’t change much). Huge HP pool, remarkable amount of toughness, high power, crit% and critdmg. Now what it can achieve: AoE CC on relatively short CDs, blocks, passive regen, good cond cleanse, gap closers/opener, high DPS with hammer and burst potential with Final Thrust. You don’t have range dmg but that’s where infamous HamBow shines, doesn’kitten

I don’t want warrior to be hard nerfed but adjusted. Shatter mesmer, D/P trickery thief are great examples of high risk/high reward specs. You need to know your opponents and act accordingly to their actions, not just mash buttons. Warrior is just too EZ, imo.

TLDR; You can build a warrior in such a way that it has not a single weaknesss while still being plain sailing to play effectively.

Here, for comparison thief build, since you all like to compare warrior to NOTHING
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV4alYmaP3cS6E/5EBnCnmUvHkdshtTBXpKA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+YFy+DA
You get near unlimited dodges if you wish (bunny hopping), 13 with withdraw and 0.5s upime to next combo ( cooldown to next heal to set initiative and gain vigor)
You get boost steal, with lots of boon and boon ripping
You get lost if invisibility on top of that, 2 stun breakers, team invisibility and poison/smoke shield for team.

stat difference compared to war build ( in spvp, where eveyone is equal on items and no foods)
power – 2839 to 2944
crit chance 43% to 47%
armor – 2180 to 2768
Hp – 16095 to 21662
Boon duration % 20 to 0
crit damage% 20 to 50

So stats are lower, biggest difference is in hp – 5,5k and armor
in return for UNLIMITED evades, high uptime easy accesible stealth on top of that, good condi removal ( only needed vs full condi specs, power onces wont be able to touch you)

To sum up – evey class is UNIQUE
Warrior is easy to pick up and play, other classes has higher learning curves
putting random builds and numbers into mid air proves nothing
Guild wars 2 is about avoiding the damage, not only doing damage

And for the love of jeebus, 4s invulnerability to phys damage every 1 min? just dont hit warrior for 4s, is that too hard? apply conditions, immob, slow him, run around for 4 seconds.

What is great is I drop the fact that the top team in tPvP is running double warrior and mopping up everyone else, and the warriors happily ignore that tidbit and go on discrediting the arguments it is overpowered.

Thedenofsin.7340:

What is great is I drop the fact that the top team in tPvP is running double warrior and mopping up everyone else, and the warriors happily ignore that tidbit and go on discrediting the arguments it is overpowered.

Why does it matter that the top team in tPvP runs two warriors? If they have tactics that require two warriors why would they bring a different profession?

Introp.8465:

Here, for comparison thief build, since you all like to compare warrior to NOTHING
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w
You get near unlimited dodges if you wish (bunny hopping), 13 with withdraw and 0.5s upime to next combo ( cooldown to next heal to set initiative and gain vigor)
You get boost steal, with lots of boon and boon ripping
You get lost if invisibility on top of that, 2 stun breakers, team invisibility and poison/smoke shield for team.

stat difference compared to war build ( in spvp, where eveyone is equal on items and no foods)
power – 2839 to 2944
crit chance 43% to 47%
armor – 2180 to 2768
Hp – 16095 to 21662
Boon duration % 20 to 0
crit damage% 20 to 50

So stats are lower, biggest difference is in hp – 5,5k and armor
in return for UNLIMITED evades, high uptime easy accesible stealth on top of that, good condi removal ( only needed vs full condi specs, power onces wont be able to touch you)

To sum up – evey class is UNIQUE
Warrior is easy to pick up and play, other classes has higher learning curves
putting random builds and numbers into mid air proves nothing
Guild wars 2 is about avoiding the damage, not only doing damage

And for the love of jeebus, 4s invulnerability to phys damage every 1 min? just dont hit warrior for 4s, is that too hard? apply conditions, immob, slow him, run around for 4 seconds.

The link is incorrect. But it’s acro S/D I presume. You couldn’t have brought any worse argument here that is giving thief spec to a thief (as I main one since release). I have good understanding of warrior mechanics as well as every other class since it’s mandatory to pvp/wvw effectively. After nerfed Infiltrator’s Return, S/D is hard countered by warriors whereas trickery D/P has higher chance of fighting toe-to-toe.
The whole trick to fighting S/D is using your key skills during afte Flanking Strike(mediocre aftercast) or during Larcenous Strike(long animation and key skill hence it’s vital for a thief to complete it). But that’s not the point. The key factor to warrior OPness atm is having all the tools at your disposal as I’ve already said.

PS Perma evade doesn’t exist. Also, if by any chance the spec you wanted to link is super trollish SB/SB or Trickery S/P – your agument is invalid as those specs (despite having strong sides) are nowhere near as capable as warrior is.

scabrous.7835:

Introp.8465:

Here, for comparison thief build, since you all like to compare warrior to NOTHING
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w
You get near unlimited dodges if you wish (bunny hopping), 13 with withdraw and 0.5s upime to next combo ( cooldown to next heal to set initiative and gain vigor)
You get boost steal, with lots of boon and boon ripping
You get lost if invisibility on top of that, 2 stun breakers, team invisibility and poison/smoke shield for team.

stat difference compared to war build ( in spvp, where eveyone is equal on items and no foods)
power – 2839 to 2944
crit chance 43% to 47%
armor – 2180 to 2768
Hp – 16095 to 21662
Boon duration % 20 to 0
crit damage% 20 to 50

So stats are lower, biggest difference is in hp – 5,5k and armor
in return for UNLIMITED evades, high uptime easy accesible stealth on top of that, good condi removal ( only needed vs full condi specs, power onces wont be able to touch you)

To sum up – evey class is UNIQUE
Warrior is easy to pick up and play, other classes has higher learning curves
putting random builds and numbers into mid air proves nothing
Guild wars 2 is about avoiding the damage, not only doing damage

And for the love of jeebus, 4s invulnerability to phys damage every 1 min? just dont hit warrior for 4s, is that too hard? apply conditions, immob, slow him, run around for 4 seconds.

The link is incorrect. But it’s acro S/D I presume. You couldn’t have brought any worse argument here that is giving thief spec to a thief (as I main one since release). I have good understanding of warrior mechanics as well as every other class since it’s mandatory to pvp/wvw effectively. After nerfed Infiltrator’s Return, S/D is hard countered by warriors whereas trickery D/P has higher chance of fighting toe-to-toe.
The whole trick to fighting S/D is using your key skills during afte Flanking Strike(mediocre aftercast) or during Larcenous Strike(long animation and key skill hence it’s vital for a thief to complete it). But that’s not the point. The key factor to warrior OPness atm is having all the tools at your disposal as I’ve already said.

PS Perma evade doesn’t exist. Also, if by any chance the spec you wanted to link is super trollish SB/SB or Trickery S/P – your agument is invalid as those specs (despite having strong sides) are nowhere near as capable as warrior is.

I only play thief from time to time as my main is a warrior but I have to admit. Even though the philosophy of having a spammable stun breaker is broken. Thiefs kinda need it and I thought the nerf was too harsh. Just my opinion though.

scabrous.7835:

Introp.8465:

Here, for comparison thief build, since you all like to compare warrior to NOTHING
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w
You get near unlimited dodges if you wish (bunny hopping), 13 with withdraw and 0.5s upime to next combo ( cooldown to next heal to set initiative and gain vigor)
You get boost steal, with lots of boon and boon ripping
You get lost if invisibility on top of that, 2 stun breakers, team invisibility and poison/smoke shield for team.

stat difference compared to war build ( in spvp, where eveyone is equal on items and no foods)
power – 2839 to 2944
crit chance 43% to 47%
armor – 2180 to 2768
Hp – 16095 to 21662
Boon duration % 20 to 0
crit damage% 20 to 50

So stats are lower, biggest difference is in hp – 5,5k and armor
in return for UNLIMITED evades, high uptime easy accesible stealth on top of that, good condi removal ( only needed vs full condi specs, power onces wont be able to touch you)

To sum up – evey class is UNIQUE
Warrior is easy to pick up and play, other classes has higher learning curves
putting random builds and numbers into mid air proves nothing
Guild wars 2 is about avoiding the damage, not only doing damage

And for the love of jeebus, 4s invulnerability to phys damage every 1 min? just dont hit warrior for 4s, is that too hard? apply conditions, immob, slow him, run around for 4 seconds.

The link is incorrect. But it’s acro S/D I presume. You couldn’t have brought any worse argument here that is giving thief spec to a thief (as I main one since release). I have good understanding of warrior mechanics as well as every other class since it’s mandatory to pvp/wvw effectively. After nerfed Infiltrator’s Return, S/D is hard countered by warriors whereas trickery D/P has higher chance of fighting toe-to-toe.
The whole trick to fighting S/D is using your key skills during afte Flanking Strike(mediocre aftercast) or during Larcenous Strike(long animation and key skill hence it’s vital for a thief to complete it). But that’s not the point. The key factor to warrior OPness atm is having all the tools at your disposal as I’ve already said.

PS Perma evade doesn’t exist. Also, if by any chance the spec you wanted to link is super trollish SB/SB or Trickery S/P – your agument is invalid as those specs (despite having strong sides) are nowhere near as capable as warrior is.

sorry for mistake, here is the build. permaevade
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV4alYmaP3cS6E/5EBnCnmUvHkdshtTBXpKA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+YFy+DA

only 1s delays in between constant evades with shortbow and regular evade.
and its not rare to meet one in spvp. Seen few thiefs just runing into 3-4 people on cap, if he gets stunned – brakes and runs, if not, messes up with people taking away their attention, making them chase him, decaping and causing more chaos. You just cant hit it, and if you stay to fight, he will slowly chip you down.
Met poison evade thief who waited out till every def. ability used – applies poison and just evades in circles. Gl trying to cleanse that with allmighty ire when you actually cant connect hits.

And its funny to hear people playing class from the beta and so on. Those people tend to think of 1 viable build and dont test anything else before patch hits. Find another cookie cutter – done improvising.
Played times means nothing, just proves you got game knowledge, not any skill

So SB #3 is your perma evade skill? LMAO, there’re 3 viable tpvp specs for a thief (4 if we include Argh’s version). 10/30/0/0/30 DP, 10/30/0/30/0 SD, 10/30/0/0/30 SP and Argh’s 10/0/0/30/30 – each of these specs is quite potent itself but if it wasn’t for the Shadow Refuge’s utility that adds to the aforementioned potency, literally, no one will take a thief into a competitive team because warrior atm can in ALMOST every situation outperfom a thief. I got off the topic a bit.

Class is balanced when for the number of classes you can defeat, there’s an equal number of classes that can defeat you (given that players are of equal skill levels). It’s not the case for the warriors. Instead of arguing whether warrior is over the top (where vast majority of players from the top of the ladder agree that it is) we should focus on tonning it down in such a way that:
1) skill floor and ceiling rise
2) class is still viable in tPvP and small scale wvw roaming

EDIT: Situation that you’ve mentioned is either hotjoin heros, yoloq or zerg trolls and not something that posses any threat to anyone who has half a brain and is semi competent. It’s getting too personal so I won’t post anymore in this thread. My 2 cents are several posts above.