Guild Wars 2

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally.)
How to fix this: For each additional ally rezing you, the amount of healing is exponentially reduced.

-CC effects should cost a % of downed hp pool. (This will make players have to actually think twice before trying to save their own life)

-allow you to rally if your ally finishes off the enemy you were fighting. (You should have to land the last hit)

Let us hear your guys thoughts on the subject.

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

---

Let us hear your guys thoughts on the subject.

1. There are already ways to prevent that from happening.
2. The health pool has to be large for the Downed Penalty to make sense as a penalty.
3. Why not? The CC skills in downed state are only effective if they are timed perfectly. And unless you’re a complete rookie, you should know which classes can deny your stomp and how.
4. Then how would you get up? If you nerf the healing and the ability to Rally when you kill your enemy, that leaves you extending your arm on the ground. In case you don’t know, at that point it’s quite often easier to just let yourself die and respawn.

The downed state is a fun mechanic, and I like it. You call it a flaw, yet I call it a benefit of flare and diversity from other MMOs.

The lack of variety of game modes for PvP are the top of the isse list in PvP, not the downed state.

Olba.5376:

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

---

Let us hear your guys thoughts on the subject.

1. There are already ways to prevent that from happening.
2. The health pool has to be large for the Downed Penalty to make sense as a penalty.
3. Why not? The CC skills in downed state are only effective if they are timed perfectly. And unless you’re a complete rookie, you should know which classes can deny your stomp and how.
4. Then how would you get up? If you nerf the healing and the ability to Rally when you kill your enemy, that leaves you extending your arm on the ground. In case you don’t know, at that point it’s quite often easier to just let yourself die and respawn.

1.) Care to share how you’re supposed to stop 4+ people from rezing when a guardian is also there to aid with rez perks?
2.) I don’t agree, you’re supposed to be at the brink of death, why do I need to bash your face in 50 times to kill you opposed to stomping you?
3.)Yes I’m aware the CC is easily dodged if your fighting the downed opponent alone, that is not my main issue with the downed state. I just find it completely bonkers that someone can be downed multiple times and then just picked back up so quickly with the aid of an entire team… Maybe some of you don’t, but I see this as a flaw…
4.)You use #4

1) Drop some AoE on them. CC the Guardian (Who sacrificed any combat ability because in your hypothetical, they have all the right traits for resurrecting people.)

2) You can kill of downed people with incidental damage most of the time. Any sort of AoE or Cleave helps you kill them. It’s not hard to do.

3) If an entire team is busy rezzing someone, they’re not doing anything else. Burst them down.

You didnt provide any suggestion for the rework.

Well, a rework would be nice.

There should be just enough time to get a stomp in before their 2 and 3 skills pop. Skills like the ele, thief and mesmer that completely prevent a stomp should be able to countered by immediately stomping when they go down.

This would allow them to still have some presence when downed, but at the same time have a reliable way to actually finish them off. As it is, they can just waste time while a number of things could happen.

And some classes hit WAY to hard while down.

Shanks.2907:

And some classes hit WAY to hard while down.

Which classes even hit -slightly- hard when down?

What use is “fighting to survive” if you aren’t even given a chance?

All of the classes right now have some form of buying time to prevent a stomp while being revved. The heavy classes that take longer to melt have weaker downs, and the lighter classes have stronger/more deceptive downs.

There is a subtle balance in there too that is at a good place right now.

And if stomping unhindered is a thing for you, a thief’s blind powder makes any immobile class useless on down.

The only thing I’d change in the downed state is the rally mechanic. It seems a little too lenient and has the potential to create such huge swings by itself.

Maybe limit rally to kills from targets you damaged in the last 5s? Maybe limit it to 1 (2, 3, more?) rally per kill and select the downed players closest to the kill in priority?

if i had 1 gold for every time I’ve…

• slammed my mouse down in frustration because some warrior in a close fight vengeanced and finished me off
• been interrupted 3 times by a thief who stealthed then ported then stealthed again
• have lost a down state fight with a necro who feared my pet
• heard my guildmates absolutely rage over teamspeak about how the ele they just downed mistformed into a tower
• have seen a guardian force-field a group of people about to stomp him off a ledge
• have lost track of “the real downed mesmer” in a group fight
• have seen phantasmal rogue destroy someone
• have retreated from a group fight because “the real downed mesmer” stacks confusion on you
• have held a point for an extra 30 seconds by playing like a trashy lady (on my back), getting off 3 or more interrupts (Ranger)
• have rallied because of Lick Wounds
• have rallied because of Wolf’s Fear
• have rallied because pet downed an opponent with a down state that I can defeat (non warrior / necro)

…I’d have a stack of legendaries by now.

these events, while mostly not in my favor, are all great experiences. they are the:

• “did you see that??”
• “F$@&ing MESMER”
• “OH $#@+ Vengeance OH $#!+”
• “get up, get UP, GET UP”
• “How many times are they going to try to stomp me before they pop stability?”
• “watch this ele wait till the last possible instant to mist form interrupt my stomp”
• “WHY isnt my pet healing me? STUPID ANET STUPID PET”
• “REZ ME YOU ARE THE WORST TEAMMATES EVER”
• “REZ ME YOU THE BEST TEAMMATES EVER”

….moments of the fight. They are the 3-10 seconds of a fight where you feel something, whether its hope or fear or panic, and as much as they are imbalanced and cheesy have no real business being in any kind of pvp game, they really make it fun for me.

Shanks.2907:

There should be just enough time to get a stomp in before their 2 and 3 skills pop.

Most #2 skills rarely interrupt stomps in fights because of all the ways to completely counter someone’s down state. Blind fields, stability, invuln, stealth, all make someone’s interrupt while down completely useless.

Plus there is no downside to being interrupted. You get interrupted you can just stomp again.

Raven.9603:

if i had 1 gold for every time I’ve…

• slammed my mouse down in frustration because some warrior in a close fight vengeanced and finished me off
• been interrupted 3 times by a thief who stealthed then ported then stealthed again
• have lost a down state fight with a necro who feared my pet
• heard my guildmates absolutely rage over teamspeak about how the ele they just downed mistformed into a tower
• have seen a guardian force-field a group of people about to stomp him off a ledge
• have lost track of “the real downed mesmer” in a group fight
• have seen phantasmal rogue destroy someone
• have retreated from a group fight because “the real downed mesmer” stacks confusion on you
• have held a point for an extra 30 seconds by playing like a trashy lady (on my back), getting off 3 or more interrupts (Ranger)
• have rallied because of Lick Wounds
• have rallied because of Wolf’s Fear
• have rallied because pet downed an opponent with a down state that I can defeat (non warrior / necro)

…I’d have a stack of legendaries by now.

these events, while mostly not in my favor, are all great experiences. they are the:

• “did you see that??”
• “F$@&ing MESMER”
• “OH $#@+ Vengeance OH $#!+”
• “get up, get UP, GET UP”
• “How many times are they going to try to stomp me before they pop stability?”
• “watch this ele wait till the last possible instant to mist form interrupt my stomp”
• “WHY isnt my pet healing me? STUPID ANET STUPID PET”
• “REZ ME YOU ARE THE WORST TEAMMATES EVER”
• “REZ ME YOU THE BEST TEAMMATES EVER”

….moments of the fight. They are the 3-10 seconds of a fight where you feel something, whether its hope or fear or panic, and as much as they are imbalanced and cheesy have no real business being in any kind of pvp game, they really make it fun for me.

This is the definition of fighting to survive. there’s no need to take this away.

My experiences are mostly:

“annnnnnnnd HAMMER!”

“vengeancevengeancevengeanceVENGEANCEVENGEANCEVENGEANCE”

“stahp teleporting”

The downed state is -really- fun right now. no need to take the last act out of the show just so people can get easy stomps.

I like the downed state mechanic. Revival, one of the two ways to get out of downed state, should stay as it currently is. The second mechanic, Rally, is too strong.

If a tagged enemy dies you rally. The problem is that when lots of stuff are dying (trash mobs in PvE or large battles in WvW), you rally way too easily.

What I’d like to see is a cool down between each time you can rally (say 120 seconds).

Shanks.2907:

And some classes hit WAY to hard while down.

While I am in favor of keeping the downed state as is, I have to agree with this. There have been occasions where I can be standing there at half, or sometimes even full, health and move in for a stomp just to get shredded by a downed enemy’s attacks. Playing a zerker staff ele is tough enough in PVP, I can’t afford to save one of my utilities to ensure I don’t get taken down by an opponent who’s on his back bleeding out.

Then as another above mentioned, some professions just can’t beat others when downed. When I play my ranger if a necromancer fears my pet I’m pretty much dead. There’s no way to come back from that. Which means that even if I get him downed first and he downs me through his downed attack, he has won the fight even if I should still have the advantage.

I like the downed state, I just feel like it could be balanced better. Theoretically it should be the easiest thing in the game to balance, since there’s only a few attacks for each profession.

the only real problem i have is that once completely killed, players can be hard rezzed, when, really, they should be forced to respawn.

this is a huge wvw problem but obviously doesnt apply much to this pvp thread.

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

only if you fail to burst them until they bleed out or stomp them.
this is an learn to play issue.

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

the health pool is not huge at all and can be depleted very quickly.
obviously another learn to play issue.

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

this is working as intended.
also there are ways to bypass their downed cc effects.
learn to play issue.

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

rally system, working as intended.
players need to prioritize to revive their allies first or to burst down / safe stomp their opponents.
learn to play issue.

nothing wrong with the system.
its the players.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like the “downed state” idea had some potential but with how it was implemented into this game, it became one of the biggest flaws in GW2’s pvp combat.

IMO, the downed state (in pvp) should not:

-Let players get back up and re-join a fight as quickly as it does now (with the aid of an ally)

only if you fail to burst them until they bleed out or stomp them.
this is an learn to play issue.

-give players such a huge health pool while downed

the health pool is not huge at all and can be depleted very quickly.
obviously another learn to play issue.

-allow cc effects (Unless you want to sacrifice some of your downed state hp)

this is working as intended.
also there are ways to bypass their downed cc effects.
learn to play issue.

-allow you to get back up if you (or your ally) finishes off the enemy you were fighting

rally system, working as intended.
players need to prioritize to revive their allies first or to burst down / safe stomp their opponents.
learn to play issue.

nothing wrong with the system.
its the players.

I have a feeling you just play pub matches and don’t ever play against well organized pre-mades. I don’t mind a downed player getting a fighting chance before death, I do mind when a downed player has less than 10% hp left and gets instantly rezed by 4+ allies assisting them.

Seriously? No rez illness? No penalty for being downed once you get back up? (sure you start out with some diminished hp once you get back up, but in a game where everyone has a heal…) lets just let the player whos been downed 2 or 3 times get right back up and act like it never happened.

This is almost never an issue in spvp pub games, its an issue in WvW and pre-made spvp teams. In WvW it discourages solo play and encourages more people to zerg, this is what I least like about the downed state.

Grimreaper.5370:

I have a feeling you just play pub matches and don’t ever play against well organized pre-mades. I don’t mind a downed player getting a fighting chance before death, I do mind when a downed player has less than 10% hp left and gets instantly rezed by 4+ allies assisting them.

i mostly play hotjoin nowadays.
i did play some casual team arena games with my guild members in the past.
http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/Deimos-Tel-Arin7391

4 allies reviving a downed player is called team work.
that is working as intended.

Seriously? No rez illness? No penalty for being downed once you get back up? (sure you start out with some diminished hp once you get back up, but in a game where everyone has a heal…) lets just let the player whos been downed 2 or 3 times get right back up and act like it never happened.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_penalty

“Each time you are downed, you earn one point of downed penalty that lasts for 60 seconds. For each point, your initial health bar is reduced by 25%. Characters that accumulate four penalty points are automatically defeated, i.e. if you are downed four times within a minute, you do not have a chance to rally.”

when i was still playing team arena with my guild members in the previous months, we did encounter focus burst groups. they have insane coordinated burst damage and stomps.

do enough damage as a team and downed state will not bother you at all.

This is almost never an issue in spvp pub games, its an issue in WvW and pre-made spvp teams. In WvW it discourages solo play and encourages more people to zerg, this is what I least like about the downed state.

well, WvW can never be balanced anyway. and yeah WvW is intended to be group / zerg play and not really solo.

for pre made team arena, the team with better team work (reviving, stomping) will prevail of course.

in hotjoin, well, hotjoin is chaotic mess anyway.

solo arena, no comment. i do not play that.

Grimreaper.5370:

-allow you to rally if your ally finishes off the enemy you were fighting. (You should have to land the last hit)

This one I really wouldn’t like.
Yes, in zerg WvW it might prevent the snowball system, but it goes too far out the other way, promoting zerker-only AE spam training because you know the enemy cannot ever get back up. So the 0,25s drop you got on them will kill them, without fail.

Also, it makes it really problematic to rally in PvE.

(edit)
Discouraging solo play is a good thing in my book. This is a MMO, the last thing it should be is care about how you play solo, that’s not what the whole genre was thought up for.

I wouldn’t mind the downed state if they balanced them better. As it is there are pretty obvious tiers.

Ele (unable to be stomped on the first attempt)

Mes/Thief (teleports/stealths make stomping much harder)

Ranger/Guard (able to stomped on the attempt if you use a cooldown, but can at least stop multiple stompers at the same time and speed up their own res)

War/Eng/Necro (single target cc, war/eng have projectiles so that can even be obstructed by another player/pet/small rock).

There is a pretty wide gap between the top and bottom tier…

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Raven.9603:

if i had 1 gold for every time I’ve…

• slammed my mouse down in frustration because some warrior in a close fight vengeanced and finished me off
• been interrupted 3 times by a thief who stealthed then ported then stealthed again
• have lost a down state fight with a necro who feared my pet
• heard my guildmates absolutely rage over teamspeak about how the ele they just downed mistformed into a tower
• have seen a guardian force-field a group of people about to stomp him off a ledge
• have lost track of “the real downed mesmer” in a group fight
• have seen phantasmal rogue destroy someone
• have retreated from a group fight because “the real downed mesmer” stacks confusion on you
• have held a point for an extra 30 seconds by playing like a trashy lady (on my back), getting off 3 or more interrupts (Ranger)
• have rallied because of Lick Wounds
• have rallied because of Wolf’s Fear
• have rallied because pet downed an opponent with a down state that I can defeat (non warrior / necro)

…I’d have a stack of legendaries by now.

these events, while mostly not in my favor, are all great experiences. they are the:

• “did you see that??”
• “F$@&ing MESMER”
• “OH $#@+ Vengeance OH $#!+”
• “get up, get UP, GET UP”
• “How many times are they going to try to stomp me before they pop stability?”
• “watch this ele wait till the last possible instant to mist form interrupt my stomp”
• “WHY isnt my pet healing me? STUPID ANET STUPID PET”
• “REZ ME YOU ARE THE WORST TEAMMATES EVER”
• “REZ ME YOU THE BEST TEAMMATES EVER”

….moments of the fight. They are the 3-10 seconds of a fight where you feel something, whether its hope or fear or panic, and as much as they are imbalanced and cheesy have no real business being in any kind of pvp game, they really make it fun for me.

This is the definition of fighting to survive. there’s no need to take this away.

My experiences are mostly:

“annnnnnnnd HAMMER!”

“vengeancevengeancevengeanceVENGEANCEVENGEANCEVENGEANCE”

“stahp teleporting”

The downed state is -really- fun right now. no need to take the last act out of the show just so people can get easy stomps.

Mine is usually the following.

About to get stomped: “NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!”
Denying an enemy stomp: “Not in my house!”
Rescued from down: “Oh thank god…”
Rallied from down state during stomp: “Not yet, Not Yet, NOT YET! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!”