Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

I wanted to discuss the option the staff ele has in sPvP/tPvP.
Because im slowly running towards a brick wall.

It seems anet really doesnt care about staff eles trying to play sPvP, and want to bandwagon all eles into S/D or D/D, and to be honest im not a D…
..player.

I have always had the idea that the elementalist would shine through pure skill, through the use of skills in certain orders wich would give insane damage combos if you pressed everything exacly right. The skillbased attunement switching giving extra survivability and the damage output shouldve been a force to be reckoned with. (it actually was like this for a short while really early in the game, beta aswell)

At the moment the state of the game of the staff ele is literally non existant because of the following problems;

Conditions. Any dedicated condition build will out condition your condition removal. This is due to the stupifying fact that the staff elementalist doesnt have a reliable tool to remove condition with, efficiently. ( i will go in detail about diamond skin and why its terrible if someone is wondering about that ) Even if you go full anti condition runes/traits you will still die versus anyone who knows howto use his class without much of a hassle at all.

Bunkers. After aprils update staff elementalist are ussually in stalemates vs bunker guardians or bunker elementalist. The raw damage an elementalist does these days doesnt meet the fix of actually being capable of downing someone who knows howto dodge big skills and then heal/bunker up time and time again due to slow recharge times of elementalist ‘big’ skills making it literally impossible to ever down someone (Even in FULL zerkerglasscannon!)

Berserkers. Its kind of sad how i am actually needing to put this up here even after the aprils update. But its true. The elementalist being the paperarmor they have ussually get insta downed by any dedicated zerk combo by constant; knockdown/stuns/fears.

There is one problem ALL elementalist staff players should by now realise.

The stupidly long utility trait cooldowns. Why is this Anet? Why do you give an elementalist cooldowns of over 60 seconds to just break stuns or condi cleanse? Can anyone say useless more? I mean theres literally no reall reason for this.

The next problem, its still the same old kittening stuff. no healthpool if you want to scratch the surface of an heavy armor user wich is literally null and void now with the aprils update. You might survive a bit longer but your cooldowns still remain the same. and even if ppl just play bunker those cooldowns are still too kittening long.

The final problem, Since staff elementalist are so centric about CCing that any class that has a constant stream of access to stability, they can just roflstomp you and ignore ALL your CC you cast wich have extreme cooldowns (again) (we need a stability strip utility/trait)

These are the various issues i run against whilst running a staff elementalist in sPvP or tPvP. I will not ask for nerfs or buffs just yet, lets first start with a possibility pool.
Where people theorycraft about builds wich might work for the Staff elementalist.

Staff ele is fine, you need a team to support you. Have a guardian condi cleanse you. Bring a ranger for poison to help you against a bunker. Use a Necro/mesmer for stability rip.

Doesn’t matter what build, an Elementalist shines when there is a team. D/D, D/F, Staff, whatever. You need an organized team.

Bunker Cleric Staff Ele was seen on both teams at the end of the NA ToL. The set is actually incredibly strong as a dedicated support character, and the Water fields it provides, when coordinated with your team, are amazing. The only “problem” with Staff is that you need to actually work with your team mates for it to work out well.

Teams. lol.
sPvP isnt tPvP sadly so thats 1 mode where the staffies are underpowered then?

I dont have friends who are good enough to join me on my quest to own everything or even willingly want to try to even PvP at all.

So literally theres no hope for me, a staff elementalist to actually be a mage, not a healing bot, a mage.

Its a shame that i am forced to be a healer in a game where there is supposedly no trinity.

The dude near the top of the NA solo queue leaderboards runs zerker staff (not full zerker traits though) “Josre”. I know he’s got mad damage and I know he is able to tank a bit when it counts. Which suggests it isn’t ONLY viable when a team supports it.

I think your “staff being viable if the ele is skilled” is right on and that therein might lie your problem.

I think you need to stop Bming this thread eurnatien and actually accept the idea that elementalist staffs are terrible in sPvP. seeing as there is no matchmaking whatsoever hence there is always the guy who just started playing versus 5 r80ies where you need to actually figure out yourself what to do cause you Cant relly on your team.

Also where do i find his traitset/runeset etc eurantien? Im wondering how much of an anti condi build he has….

Eurantien.4632:

The dude near the top of the NA solo queue leaderboards runs zerker staff (not full zerker traits though) “Josre”. I know he’s got mad damage and I know he is able to tank a bit when it counts. Which suggests it isn’t ONLY viable when a team supports it.

I think your “staff being viable if the ele is skilled” is right on and that therein might lie your problem.

Yup. Played against him for the first time several matches recently and he carries hard. He is usually #1 on the leaderboard, unless he doesn’t play for a while and decay kicks in, or some other person who hasn’t played for ten years skyrockets up to the top.

I think his build is even better in solo arena than team arena. In teams, he’d get focused by enemy roamers, especially the thief. But in solos or hotjoins, he positions well, uses defensive abilities smart, and staff/icebows massive AoE nukes everywhere.

ErazorZ.5209:

I think you need to stop Bming this thread eurnatien and actually accept the idea that elementalist staffs are terrible in sPvP. seeing as there is no matchmaking whatsoever hence there is always the guy who just started playing versus 5 r80ies where you need to actually figure out yourself what to do cause you Cant relly on your team.

Also where do i find his traitset/runeset etc eurantien? Im wondering how much of an anti condi build he has….

It’s not BM, the guy is good and his build is good. Staff ele is good.

You don’t need an anti-condi build. Just kill the condi player and you’re good. Although if you really want an anti-condi build, support staff is what pushed condi comps out of the meta.

I play staff all the time in soloQ, and I think it is actually the strongest build in a team.

In soloQ, staff can do everything.

You can build a tanky far-push build using tornado that can get decaps, survive forever and eventually kill, can 2v1 for quite a while, and can always burning retreat—>heal up—>come back.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKc24wzBr0AhAB5tmrRBlrLXB-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwFAoYZAA

You can build full-in cleric support which can act as a pseudo-guardian on any node, or rediculous support in teamfights. This works best with some kind of team-support:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKc24wzBd0AhAB5tlrRBlrLXB-TJxHwADeAA/2fAwFAoYZAA

While not the BEST build, you can play full-glass cannon and wreck people (especially on forest) in teamfights. You can even 1v1 players that impatient or don’t know what to do by dropping mad aoe’s on yourself and killing with that down-state lavafont:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMM6ZW5wzBr0ABACpthDcJR56lXD-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwFAQZZAA

My personal favorite is a balanced celestial build to hold home-point. It is tanky enough to hold home quite a while 2v1, has enough “cheap” damage to win 1v1’s, and has inherently excellent team-support. I take pirate runes and both glyphs b/c they give me sources of “cheap” damage in 1v1’s as staff often has trouble landing enough alone. Also, glyph of elemental power is great in team-fights to spread out chill or weakness (depending) to further your support:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKcW0wzBd0AhAB5tlrRBlrLXB-TJxHwADeAAAuAAFLDge/BA

I personally think staff ele makes an excellent home-point defender b/c it is tanky, can win most 1v1’s, and is super-mobile between lightning flash, perma-swiftness, and burning retreat.

Well ofcourse staff ele is ggood if enemy-ppl stay in circles trying to cap eatingg up all the AoE shots and just isnta die cuz of it.

And yes, hes BM by calling out to my skill, wich he obviously doenst know anythingg about..

Didn’t mean to BM. Just pointing it out as a possibility since I consider staff ele to be very strong (stronger than scepter) and I know other people do as well (as you can see from the thread).

One of the biggest things isn’t mechanical skill but rather positioning. For example power ranger is horrible. If you position well power ranger instantly becomes good. I’ve logged over 2500 hours on ranger and my positioning is good. Yet, I JUST learned that my positioning can be and could have been WAY better.

Blackbeard, ive just taken a quick glimpse on your builds you posted, thank you for the response. but most of those builds i have ran with moderate succesion problem being there never seems to be enough dps to down most of the people in series of 1v1’s for instance recapping home etc. And thats where my really problem atm lies, not even talking about people focussing me because im a staff ele.

I did however just changed my build a bit since i went hybrid zerker with celestial (with 4 in fire) neglectingg the GM trait6 of water wich probably gives allot of anti condi (wich i forgot)

So thanks allot and it seems i too need to fall vicitim to the 000066 meta

And no point eura, its somethingg personal if people call me lowskilled, due to me also playing starcraft 2 at a high level. So theres no reall reason for me to not have the same dedication and skill in guildwars 2 when it comes to skill.

Ok, well, other people are making staff work. I don’t think its possible to condi kill an ele without a terrormancer. Which only leaves coordinated zerkers to burst the ele. This can only happen in team queue, and in team queue you can coodinate peels for the ele. In solo queue you won’t have the problem of coordinated classes.

Your condi clear problem probably just came from not running 0/0/0/6/6 though. Ether renewal is an amazing condi clear.

The main thing that counters ele is necro either condi or power but necros can be easily out kited/cc’ed / whatever’d

Staff is strong.

If it doesn’t work for you and you can’t make it work, don’t run it.

I hate spirit builds with a passion, but I run them over traps most of the time because spirits work.

I just changed the trait and you are right, it was the problem all allong. i do insane dps with insane healing now, sadly im carrying allot of my team, any suggestions on where to find good teammatchmaking outside of the game?

Erazor – staff generally doesn’t down people quickly (unless you zerk and LOS/position well, but then you are burst-bait – especially thieves). However, you can CERTAINLY win an attrition fight over the course of 1-2 mins, especially if you take some easy damage sources, use your combos/cc’s well for more buffs and to force your opponent into your aoes, and actually use auto-attacks (fire and air are pretty decent and reliable dps, water can heal but not good for damage, and earth is a combo finisher + weakness on high-dps enemies). To help with this out, the tropical bird (pirate runes), the elite fire/air elemental, and burns from glyph of elemental power are pretty reliable.

Staff is strongest, in my experience, because it can range on the mid-fight and keep a close eye/proximity to home-point. Between burning retreat (about face, retreat, about face), your cc’s, and lightning flash, you should be able to race almost anyone back to your point and hold a cap or at least neut. However, IF you do get your home capped, you can still make it worth your while to fight on point. How? No need to stay on point if they have it to start, so use your range and aoe him on-point to soften him up and force him off. He will be inclined to stand on it. As soon as is drawn off-point, you can either burning retreat on, or blink. Here is where you get a decap. Use your cc skills (especially earth immob, static field/unsteady ground, air push-back, and chill) to keep your opponent off the point for a decap. In fact, gust is one of the most important skills to land for a decap as it gets you the push off and combos right into your cc’s. You should be able to get a decap against anyone that isn’t hambow or bunker warrior (so much stability and cleanse). From the point you have a decap, he is forced to fight on-point in your aoes while you can rotate well/position well to cut his dps.

If he is melee, learn to position unsteady ground/static to force your opponent to wait and do no damage. Chill field + earth blast/earth auto is devastating to many opponents. Be smart about covering ether renewal so its not interrupted.

Water fields: use water 3 often, and it is best to use when going earth—>water so you can put it ontop of eruption. However, earth-dodge works well. Water 5 is REALLY strong against condis (cures 3), plus is long enough to use if you are going INTO earth so you can immediately eruption and then dodge for extra healing.

Rotations: in general you want to book-end earth with fire and water, in-general. Going fire-> earth will let you blast a fire field for might. Going water->earth lets you plast water field for healing. Going earth to either also gives you a blast as you need to remember to drop eruption.

ErazorZ.5209:

I just changed the trait and you are right, it was the problem all allong. i do insane dps with insane healing now, sadly im carrying allot of my team, any suggestions on where to find good teammatchmaking outside of the game?

Yes, just choose “arenas” and then “solo arena.”

“Play now” doesn’t really have matchmaking, and team arena isn’t optimized for joining solo.

Op what level/Rank are you on tpvp and spvp on LB? Coz staff ele is a beast.

Well it really was the only problem the water 3 GM, im seriously wrecking right now in all forms, but im carrying allot aswell at the same time.

also warriors/guardians are still overpowered having mass stability/never die.
Any ideas on what to do vs those?

Because it seems one part of my problems was those 2 classes, guardian turtling forever and even rezzing people in the midst of a teamfight and warrior just simply does the knockdown combo and you cant recover to punish cuz there is no possiblity to punish with that much armor/hp/regen if you cant even crowdcontrol due to stability.

warrior just OP?

also im r44 in Pvp atm.

I play staff ele since launch, and have been sticking to my guns and adapting irregardless how bad it turns out, here is my take:

even with LTP points below on tpvp, i still hope staff ele gets more buffs, but seems challenging by design – perhaps add free roots/ cripples in regular attacks?

1. approach = requiring a party is a must – not because its so weak that any other class works with a party – but think of how artillery works behind front lines. and only zerker works for staff ele to reliably get many kills.
2. wish = buffing traits simply makes more people stick to DD, not staff. so i hope buffs add to staff eles specifically.
3. range = fighting at max range is incredibly advantageous. if opposing team doesnt get off point and ignores your zerker meteor storm your team will likely get a chain easy stomps.
4. flee = how i play (and successful zerker eles) is to be as timid as possible. flee when anyone attempts to approach you.. i flee when any opponent is within 800 radius. if you want to get to melee range, dont play a staff ele. accept the fact that staff ele cannot beat ANY profession reliably at melee range.
5. survive = almost every button i mash is used for getting away/ staying alive. even water/ earth #1. always be prepared for stealthed opponents, as you will surely be top of their hit list. dont stand still – instintively move away if you ‘feel’ you are going to get backstabbed.
6. killing = to kill stuff, only zerker on fire element is reliable. fight at max range. just staying on fire element should outdps someone at 1200 range. ele is the only class that fully stays at max range for full dps. if possible find a good vantage point where opponents cannot easily reach you or notice you.

the above has ensured me top points and turn the tables – as long as my team is not steamrolled, but usually also ensures the entire opposing team has me as top of hit list. if nobody cares to protect you, prepare to die a lot.

Staff ele provides the best gaming experience, tho i played 20% warrior, 25%thief, and 20% mesmer before.

I go zerker, with full dmg trait + downed trait so i even win fights where i get downed first.
With Blasting Staff trait, most of your spells cover the whole node, that is pretty good because bunkers will insist on staying on the node, (in your aoe) so they die when their defensive skills go on cooldown.

Its also a nice trick to put lava font under you before going downed, possibly even cast meteor shower, so you will get +33% dmg on those aswell.

what?!
staff ele is completely fine.
we also used staff ele in the tol tourny for our close point and it was so good.

with celestial and parrot runes it’s so strong actually.
good mobility to defend the close,
really good sustain in 1vs1 or 2vs1 situations for a long time,
such a nice team heal and also a decent damage and at least
some really useful interrupts and knocks.

staff ele for closepoint is just amazing.
it’s usefall as d/d ele, no reason to cry on this build at the moment, seriously.

It is DEFINATLY not fine.

I was talking about being magelike character NOT a boring tank.
Theres no point in bunkering if you cant cap or do damage and with celestial runes + no reall attack power you dont even scratch the surface of an autoheal warrior.

Staff ele is NOT fine. just because you can turtle with it doesnt mean its fine.

So, there is this guy who sits around top 25 NA solo queue. Name is Josre, he plays a DPS staff ele and I’d bet he wins most of his 1 v 1s. I know there aren’t many eles out there, let alone ones brave enough to do damage, but with good positioning It seems to be viable. It would just get stronger in team queue with team support.

Maybe this is a l2p issue?

Oh and btw eurantien, he doesnt play DPS staff ele he plays support.

Maybe its not such a L2p issue after all.

ErazorZ.5209:

Oh and btw eurantien, he doesnt play DPS staff ele he plays support.

Maybe its not such a L2p issue after all.

Well I don’t know what to say then. His damage is really high for being a “support”. I guess, nerf staff ele.

You can play dps support :/ and staff fits that roll well.