Guild Wars 2

They officialy let it out ah! They are nerfing the kitten able critical damage down the scale now lets try and predict how they will do it. I predict Critical damage traitpoint wont be affected however gain from gear likely will get nuked down by half if not more

(if they reduce the gain to 1% per piece and 2% on major while 3% on weapon we might actualy get something interesting)

Seriously ill run rampager ranger in pve postpatch… we likely about to see a revalue of every build wich doesnt run on a 100% critical damage bonus

So… You got a source?

TriggerSad.2597:

So… You got a source?

the topic right above mine.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST/page/4#post3503822

Uhm yeah we all read it..
why make a new topic about it?

Maybe they will change the “precision to critical chance” ratio, which now is 21 points to precision equal +1% critical chance. As it is now it is very easy to achieve a 100% which is not good imho.

nicknamenick.2437:

Uhm yeah we all read it..
why make a new topic about it?

to make hypothesis about how they will do it of course

Guard will be even more mandatory..
Necro will be a thing

mesmer will disappear from pve
ele will probably also and thief maybe.

Warrior can deal lot of dps even without zerk….also can apply conditions.

US/EU population will drop of a huge chunk due topeople grinding ascended leaving the game.
Anet won t care and will use us as test for eastern launch.

My speculation.

1. I dont see mesmer leaving pve if they actualy run phantasm to begin with.
2. Necro deserved some love
3. Warrior will still be apreciated
4. I see condition damage ranger and ranger in general doing a nice comeback in dungeons
5. running thief is perfectly possible as condition damage and venomshare
6. ele has a condition damage build as well but loosing some crit damage on gear wont affect it that much it will still be on par with other CD builds.

I just think well end up running 1 to 2 condition damage build 1 supportive or might spamming critical damage elementalist wich will do somewhat fair dps and the rest will be divided amonst critical damage and control spec like summoner styles and physical damage. At worse crit damage will likely end a little above the other spec (about 1.5 time the damage done) when it comes to total damage done or condition damage will be stronguer then it but since we actualy have a stack limit well still be forced to run some physical damage to fill the gap eventualy resulting in a dps order like this

1rst – condition damage is based on damage over time cannot crit and is limited via stack and will deal best damage in the game however well likely be limited to one effective condition user per party to maximise its effectiveness.

2nd – pure damage glass cannon will be shortly behind but wont be handicaped by the damage cap cond damage will have to live with so well be able to run several of them in a party.

3rd – Summoner and crowd controls will be third in the damage list because they deal less damage then pure damage and a lot less then condition but allow for mob control and sometime indirect support (aka turret enginer and minion master necro).

4rth – Pure supportive unit arent designed to deal damage to begin with so its likely they will deal less then everyone else however they will help the party trought buffs and ennemy incapacitating

Maybe they’ll just make crits a static 2x or scale only off of precision and replace crit damage with something like -condi duration.

I’m honestly scared by this change.

If they nerf critical damage, PvP will be a conditionfest even more, effectively kicking out any other remaining power build around.
If they buff critical damage, the power creep will be just flat out ridiculous, when fights will last about a couple of seconds.

The only reasonable change I see is to merge critical damage and precision into a single stat, making it on-par with condition builds, which need only 2 stats to work (condition damage and condition duration), while reworking all the amulets accordingly.
This will help buffing the overall defensive capability of any profession, effectively removing complete glass cannon builds while pushing hybrid condition+direct damage builds, which will become kinda the new glass cannons.

Well, let’s hope they don’t screw this up.

Sorrow if they merge crit with precision you do realise rampager will become the op gear spec (condition damage crit damage and precision + toughness in a single build is that some sort of joke)?

I dont think theil nerf crit damage in pvp, what i think theil do is significantly reduce all crit damage on gear in pve. This means youl get to keep your crit damage in pvp and stop behing godzilla in pve to be more on par with everyone else.

If they nerf crit damage in pve to be prety much close to what we have in pvp you can expect build wich runs on pet like minion master necro turret engy and ranger to become way more viable then before + we likely will see new spec come out wich people all forsaked before for the use of crit damage. In pve since condition damage is limited by stacks youl likely have 1 to 2 condition damage user per party at best the rest will be support, hybrid support or crit damage/control. This is likely the official end of the 5 zerker meta.

If they change crit to 2X its likely to kill the build entirely i think theil just tone down the critical damage from gear a lot

This is such a mistake to change the stat based on all these complaints. Its a playstyle choice. They need to make harder enemies. Gutting the stat will only cause more complaints because of the time invested into that stat combination. My main spec is rampager so im not too worried about me after this change but i can imagine how much less i would play if i had full zerk ascended and they brought its dmg boost down to the lvl of PVT armor.

wont change a thing if you get nerfed because having multiple condi build in the party will still be a poor choice due to cond max stack, people will still need to run multiple zerk in the team. however we likely will get to see an emergeance of control builds in pve as well as a pet user revalue (Time to undust my minion master necro and my beast master ranger)

Remove critical damage stat from the game and make base critical damage 100% instead of 50%. This has the interesting side effect of leveling the playing field between conditions (which most feel require a single stat to maximize) and power (which currently requires 3 stats to maximize).

Leave critical damage alone but make base crit damage only 25% instead of 50%. This would make mean no gearing changes are needed.

Either way, hopefully any change to stats at this point in the game coincides with ascended items getting the legendary treatment and we can reassign stats whenever we want, as many times as we want, WITHOUT A GEM STORE PURCHASE!

Changes to crit dmg will affect Valk, Assassin, and Cav gears as well, so I don’t see them doing anything incredibly drastic with it. Not if their intent is simply to bring zerker into line with other gear types. Such a change would hinder rather than help. To destroy that stat would destroy more than just zerker, which a lot of people seem to forget.

Nerfing zerker ALSO means nerfing cav valk and assasin, im sure you already figured it out, what they striking at is critical damage itself.

well basicaly if they put critical damage to the same lvl as Spvp (about 55% without a party buff) Condition damage will take over for 1 or 2 of the party member while other will run crit damage and we may even see a support or control units like Minion master and pet zoo taking a stroll in. Doing 35k at best with HB isnt so bad when you consider that conditionmancer must be alone in the party to deal his full damage.

When i talk about zerker nerf i also talk about nerf to valk kitten and valk. Base crit damage wont be nerfed (and likely trait crit damage either) theil probably just reduce it on all gear piece so that crit damage units get to deal significantly better phys damage then non crit damage specialist or lower then cond damage (1 per party is enought because of condi cap) without behing overwhelming. In WvW before you even talk about how this will ruin everything ill remind you people have the option to ’’cleanse’’ their condition while the mob cannot.

Nerfing critical damage likely spells that condi cap wont be removed from the game however so eh fine by me long as i can run condi build and be on par with zerkers.

i wonder why everybody thinks critical damage will get nerfed. “changes to critical damage” doesnt necessarily mean that they will nerf it.

the problem right now is that nobody uses conditions for PvE because they’re too weak.
if they nerf the crit damage conditions would (in PvP) be too strong.

a possibility would be that they add a cap, maybe 50% maybe 75% whatever and make critical damage (and precision) also work for conditions.

they were also talking about new stat combo amulets in sPvP, maybe they add some condition damage, critical hit chance, critical damage amulets?

that way they could lower the usefulness of berserker a bit in PvE and at the same time bring the condition damage on par. there would still be the problem with the condition stack limit on monsters.

Jekkt.6045:

i wonder why everybody thinks critical damage will get nerfed. “changes to critical damage” doesnt necessarily mean that they will nerf it.

the problem right now is that nobody uses conditions for PvE because they’re too weak.
if they nerf the crit damage conditions would (in PvP) be too strong.

a possibility would be that they add a cap, maybe 50% maybe 75% whatever and make critical damage (and precision) also work for conditions.

they were also talking about new stat combo amulets in sPvP, maybe they add some condition damage, critical hit chance, critical damage amulets?

that way they could lower the usefulness of berserker a bit in PvE and at the same time bring the condition damage on par. there would still be the problem with the condition stack limit on monsters.

Not if this change to crit damage only is done on pve items. Youd be surprised how much crit damage % you have over the Spvp zerkers, its easily about a good 50% or even worse from ascended gear. Crit damage in pvp will remain the same if they do it that way it will only be less of an obvious choice of play in pve. Id be highly anoyed if they started to make condition damage able to do critical ticks this would just make it worse for other specialisation.

I think about a cap for crit dmg for pve/wvwvw, also
they wont do such drastic nerf on stpvp , because it would probably giving bunker builds more Advantages

Assuming the “worst”, that the entire stat would be removed, any gear with critical damage would probably get the same treatment as the old MF gear did: the game would allow you to pick new stats. Besides, ascended gear with stat swapping was highly favored in the CDI’s thread for vertical progression, so it’ll probably come some day, in an unknown form. Thank you Mario. But Anet’s evil master plan to take all our money is in another castle.

Assuming the “worst” again, and thinking of the impact it would have in the game… well, it would require a massive re-balance to condition damage and defense. However… at the end of it, it would be the best for this game’s pvp. Currently, the time to kill a player with a focused burst is too high, even Anet thinks so too, so under this assumption, it would attempt to address the problem across all builds.

Critical Damage is also not the most interesting stat out there. Power is the best direct damage stat, and precision can affect direct damage as much as it can affect traits and effects procced by criticals, so it has a dual purpose. Critical damage? “Moar of the same”. It’s a secondary, more restricted version of Power, that has no other purpose but to stack with power for the ultimate boring stat combo. That is, of course, my opinion. I do like critical damage, however, in situations where precision is lower, and the player must rely on fury, traits and auto-crits to benefit from it. That’s the only “unique” building that critical damage offers, I think.

For PvE, a “removal” wouldn’t be the best way to fix the zerker meta, far from it. But considering the massive potential this could have in making pvp a better place (but ONLY after a massive re-balance, which makes the whole thing very unlikely to me), it would have a “better-than-nothing” consequence in pve’s meta.

Still under the extreme assumption that it would be removed, it almost certainly would be replaced by another stat, and it would be perfect if we got a second stat that makes control builds stronger (in addition to condition duration). This would add some interesting geometry. Control builds would have Control Power and Condition Duration, support builds would have Healing Power and Boon Duration. All of them would have a third stat of choice. I would even go further, and change Healing Power to Support Power, and have it directly affect how effective some effects are, like retaliation’s damage and reflection damage.

But all or most of this is incredibly unlikely. Only critical damage is being “changed”. And we have no idea to what.

Maybe condition damage will be made weaker, but will be able to critical? This will make condition builds stronger in PvE, while simultaneously, nerf their defense in PvP (they would have to lose a defensive stat for it). It would be a potentially smart change, no?

Maybe critical damage will be changed to “Critical Efficiency”, and also affect heal skills, making healing builds stronger in PvE, and stronger in PvP at the cost of self-defense. It would allow for good damage/ heal builds in PvE, and good non-bunker healers in PvP. Another potentially smart change?

Anyways, no one has any idea to what will happen to it, so I’m really curious.

In PvE/WvW, jewelry is way over-budget on critical damage. Maybe they’re just fixing that, which would knock off about half of the critical damage stat on jewelry – a loss of about 20% critical damage if all your jewelry had critical damage.

Jekkt.6045:

i wonder why everybody thinks critical damage will get nerfed. “changes to critical damage” doesnt necessarily mean that they will nerf it.

the problem right now is that nobody uses conditions for PvE because they’re too weak.
if they nerf the crit damage conditions would (in PvP) be too strong.

a possibility would be that they add a cap, maybe 50% maybe 75% whatever and make critical damage (and precision) also work for conditions.

they were also talking about new stat combo amulets in sPvP, maybe they add some condition damage, critical hit chance, critical damage amulets?

that way they could lower the usefulness of berserker a bit in PvE and at the same time bring the condition damage on par. there would still be the problem with the condition stack limit on monsters.

I agree, “A change to crit damage” doesn’t necessarily mean a nerf. Maybe they’re trying something really new and changing base crit damage % based on health pool? Who knows?

evilapprentice.6379:

I agree, “A change to crit damage” doesn’t necessarily mean a nerf. Maybe they’re trying something really new and changing base crit damage % based on health pool? Who knows?

That would be pretty bad choice. No one would then go for Vit stats at all if it means taking less Crit Damage, Condition builds don’t really go for Crit either just high, high Toughness.

Maybe it could just be tweaking what damage it deals based on Armor/Toughness?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

evilapprentice.6379:

I agree, “A change to crit damage” doesn’t necessarily mean a nerf. Maybe they’re trying something really new and changing base crit damage % based on health pool? Who knows?

That would be pretty bad choice. No one would then go for Vit stats at all if it means taking less Crit Damage, Condition builds don’t really go for Crit either just high, high Toughness.

Maybe it could just be tweaking what damage it deals based on Armor/Toughness?

I meant base healthpool – IE Thief/Ele/Guard start with 50% crit damage, Mes/Ranger/engi start with 30% crit damage, Necro/Warrior start with 10% crit damage. Not advocating those numbers, or this change, just throwing out some random ideas.

evilapprentice.6379:

I meant base healthpool – IE Thief/Ele/Guard start with 50% crit damage, Mes/Ranger/engi start with 30% crit damage, Necro/Warrior start with 10% crit damage. Not advocating those numbers, or this change, just throwing out some random ideas.

I would switch Thief and Necro around. Considering that Necro has next to zero defense, no mobility or anything else why should they also be given the lowest Crit damage? Compare that to Thief who have stealth, VERY high movement and defense.

if Necro and Warrior get 10% Crit Damage then one of 2 things would need to happen:

1) Necro gets BUFFS! They would need mobility, they would need defense, they would need sustain

2) Warriors have theres removed, they have to much sustain, insane mobility and plenty of defensive skills.

Considering that Mesmer has Stealth, combat movement, Phantasms and everything else i think 30% would be too much for them as well.

This is why basing it around base health would simply not work. Look at all the defensive options Guardians have, all the healing and support thats how they counter the low health. Thief use insane mobility and stealth….

kyubi.3620:

Sorrow if they merge crit with precision you do realise rampager will become the op gear spec (condition damage crit damage and precision + toughness in a single build is that some sort of joke)?

I dont think theil nerf crit damage in pvp, what i think theil do is significantly reduce all crit damage on gear in pve. This means youl get to keep your crit damage in pvp and stop behing godzilla in pve to be more on par with everyone else.

If they nerf crit damage in pve to be prety much close to what we have in pvp you can expect build wich runs on pet like minion master necro turret engy and ranger to become way more viable then before + we likely will see new spec come out wich people all forsaked before for the use of crit damage. In pve since condition damage is limited by stacks youl likely have 1 to 2 condition damage user per party at best the rest will be support, hybrid support or crit damage/control. This is likely the official end of the 5 zerker meta.

If they change crit to 2X its likely to kill the build entirely i think theil just tone down the critical damage from gear a lot

godzilla in pvp?

i stand there with my guardian at priest of grenth in my clerics armor and solo him. np bs. no joke. i SOLO him. yes there wree other people there but they died left and right after 1 or 2 attacks. i prolly did over 60% of his total hp. with my thief and his crit zerk build (and thief is what i play 99%) i could only do dmg for about 10 secs b4 being downed. i try s/p and p/p and d/d ive tried them all there just to challenge myself.

anyway what im saying is a nerf isnt needed. a buff for thieves is. if u take away our dmg in pve then you are essentially buffing guardians warriors etc.

i can stand still on a guardian and hack away with greatsword and staff and never have to use my heal button or utilities when im being attacking by 10 risen or w.e.
NOOOOOOOOOOW on my thief….however….. thats impossible…. if i tried id live barely 4 seconds.

Travlane.5948:

i stand there with my guardian at priest of grenth in my clerics armor and solo him. np bs. no joke. i SOLO him. yes there wree other people there but they died left and right after 1 or 2 attacks. i prolly did over 60% of his total hp. with my thief and his crit zerk build (and thief is what i play 99%) i could only do dmg for about 10 secs b4 being downed. i try s/p and p/p and d/d ive tried them all there just to challenge myself.

Yup, that’s proof that cleric gear, not zerker gear is OP!

This will end up being a nerf for elementalists as always, since:
1- They are a burst class which depends on critical damage to balance their low survival
2- Air is the best offensive trait line they have (crits)

I will probably just stop playing this game if they do such a ridiculous nerf.

Xillllix.3485:

This will end up being a nerf for elementalists as always, since:
1- They are a burst class which depends on critical damage to balance their low survival
2- Air is the best offensive trait line they have (crits)

I will probably just stop playing this game if they do such a ridiculous nerf.

As long as they don’t touch your FGS, or might stacking abilities, you’ll be alright.

For the people worrying about PvP – read more of the forums! They’re specifically talking about berserker being too powerful in PvE. You can unbunch your panties now, and go back to controlling those nodes.

Alrighty, for the remaining 90% of the playerbase who may have actual concerns;

The most likely thing, IMO, is that they’ll cap critical damage the way it is in PvP. No more insanely high numbers. This would bring the berserker damage back down to being in line with condition stacking (in terms of single person damage output) but wouldn’t address the problem with the condition stack cap. (new dungeon meta: 4 berserkers + 1 condition stacker?)

The next most likely thing would be taking the Tequatl approach, and making more bosses immune to crits. This would have a major impact on dungeoneering, but not much elsewhere.

The least likely thing, but the one that people seem to be freaking out about, is the outright removal of “Crit. Damage +%” on armor. They could do that, but I really don’t expect them to – there are too many prefix types that involve it.

Now, if they were to address the root of the problem (no need for non DPS anywhere in the pve game) we’d have something different. What they should do:

-increase some mobs toughness by a large margin, while lowering their HP. This makes condition damage more useful.

-introduce mobs who continually chain retaliation on themselves. Having debuffing becomes essential.

-change mob AI so that when a group is stacked up meleeing in a spot, the critters move to range and start hitting HARD. Suddenly CC becomes important.

if they do those 3, while simultaneously reducing the crit damage cap to the pvp cap, we’ll see an increase in build diversity – especially among skip-everything-exploit-it-all dungeon groups. Balanced groups, no 5 dps or 4 dps + ele for weapons, would become more efficient.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Xillllix.3485:

This will end up being a nerf for elementalists as always, since:
1- They are a burst class which depends on critical damage to balance their low survival
2- Air is the best offensive trait line they have (crits)

I will probably just stop playing this game if they do such a ridiculous nerf.

As long as they don’t touch your FGS, or might stacking abilities, you’ll be alright.

They already nerfed our might stacking in the last patch by obligating us to spend more traits in Water and Arcana.

stale.9785:

For the people worrying about PvP – read more of the forums! They’re specifically talking about berserker being too powerful in PvE. You can unbunch your panties now, and go back to controlling those nodes.

PVE changes and WVW changes are generally the same, so until the changes are announced it is totally acceptable to be concerned about WvW as well.

stale.9785:

For the people worrying about PvP – read more of the forums! They’re specifically talking about berserker being too powerful in PvE. You can unbunch your panties now, and go back to controlling those nodes.

I would actually WAIT and see what they have planned before just jumping out and assuming its going to have no affect on WvW…

Roe- i tend to count WvW as part of PvE. Tempest in a teacup though – WvW can be boiled down to 2 basic build types – PVT zergballs and condition roamers. Not a lot of concern over changing berserker stuff there.

Oh, and breaking thieves ability to hit for insanely high amounts from stealth on roamers? That’s a good thing. They just need to be given something else to compensate.

(IMO thieves have always been broken, still are broken, and the only fix would be changing the class a LOT – same boat that rangers are in.)

just run your thieve as condition build? after this patch ill likely run torment or bleed way venom thieve imo

stale.9785:

Oh, and breaking thieves ability to hit for insanely high amounts from stealth on roamers? That’s a good thing. They just need to be given something else to compensate.

How about no. If no other class which would all see the same nerfs don’t get buffs to compensate – why should ONE class be buffed?

stale.9785:

(IMO thieves have always been broken, still are broken, and the only fix would be changing the class a LOT – same boat that rangers are in.)

Thieves are NO where near as broken as Ranger’s.

if you mean the class is in a very poor shape? yea totaly

1. our best build actualy would be condition based (condition shortbow beastmastery hybrid) but condition wont work well in pve
2. pet damage was badly nerfed (a good 50% from what i heard)

yea ranger needs an actualy fix and im not saying it as a nerf but as a major boost to all their weapon, traits and their pet in general.

Broken differently. Rangers need love. The weapons are deliberately weak, the pet flat out doesn’t work, the traits are a mess, and the utilities are a joke.

Thieves, on the other hand, have everything they need to be viable, but instead absolutely everything got tied to stealth. The result? They were made to troll. To do insane damage, then be untouchable.

Ranger needs to be buffed, in a lot of areas. Thieves need to be tied into a burlap sack with some cement blocks and drowned.

I can’t speak for thief because I don’t play one. But I can speak for rangers. They ruined the ranger… The ranger was awesome at the beginning… then they slowed down the speed of short bow….shortened the range of the short bow..and nerfed the pets so badly that they are useless. I loved my ranger until they broke her into little pieces.

Well lets see it from a player point of view ive run several thieve build in spvp and in pve so lets recapitulate here

1. dual dagger heartseeker
verdict: unaceptable the build runs on a single skill and the rest on auto attacks (it was eventualy damage nerfed)

2. Dual dagger backstabs
verdict: To glassy to be viable for anything else then 1 shoting someone once in a while and even then thats just not worth it in either spvp (you get killed to often) and pve (no persistant damage)

3. Dual dagger fake perma stealth
verdict: Altrought i call it perma stealth for its ability to stealth for a good 30 second + and overheal damage the build isnt realy good however when it comes to taking down a tank wich just wont die no mather how much damage you deal him. It doesnt fit the damage purpose of pve well either and has to run entirely on utility to maintain invisibility.

4. dual pistol critical burst and venomous chains
verdict: one of the worst build i ever made, the damage is far from satisfying and ,altrought the venoms do keep the target still while you burst it, it just aint enought to take down tanky or non glassy target

5. dual pistol condition damage venomous chain
verdict: while the condition damage help its not enought of a burst to kill players because pistol doesnt deal enought bleed to be condition viable in the first place.

6. dual dagger condition damage death blossom venomous chain
verdict: one of the best thieve build i ever played it heals like crazy from bleeding regeneration can stack up to 25 bleed keep the target still on application and deals a massive damage over time burst within very little time, better yet the 5 venom cause life leech and heals the thief + you only need to teleport with steal to cause stun poison and effectively render the target unable to dodge while you applicate the bleed, the only issue i ever encountered was draw condition necromancer and berserker stance warrior, its likely 100% viable in pve but ill keep it out for until crit damage is fixed.

7: Sword dagger teleport play
verdict: just to much of a mess to run in the first place, while i do apreciate the advantage of shadow return i rather not rely on teleportation to stay alive in battle as a thief onless its used as an offansive weapon (such as with dual dagger venomous chain) Its utherly confusing and prety much feels the same as if i was constantly behing hit by hard to catch.

While i heard perma blind thieves are somewhat good i rather run my mechanics as an assasination spec then as a attrition spec relying on defensive effect.

Can people actually wait for more details of what the developers have to say about critical damage instead of causing a needless crapstorm about something they have never stated as of yet, which is nerfing critical damage?

Seriously people.

I thought its common knowledge that power > precision > crit dam. There is no point for Anet to nerf crit dam, since its better for them to nerf power instead.

If anything I believe Anet will try to add crit dam to conditional damage, and decrease the base conditional damage. This will solve 2 issues:

1. the PVP conditional bunker will need to focus on 2 to 3 stats to do dam, which bring it on par with the power builds.

2. Allow condition to do more dam in pve, since conditions now can crit, a player focus exclusively on conditional dam + precision + crit dam will do a lot more dam in pve.

No set in the game actualy run crit dam cond and prec at the same time… closest we have to this is rampager.

There is no saying that they won’t add the set to do conditional dam + precision + crit dam.

stale.9785:

Roe- i tend to count WvW as part of PvE. Tempest in a teacup though – WvW can be boiled down to 2 basic build types – PVT zergballs and condition roamers. Not a lot of concern over changing berserker stuff there.

Oh, and breaking thieves ability to hit for insanely high amounts from stealth on roamers? That’s a good thing. They just need to be given something else to compensate.

(IMO thieves have always been broken, still are broken, and the only fix would be changing the class a LOT – same boat that rangers are in.)

i agree about compesation. we are still due alot of compensation.

guards = perma vigor
thiefs = no perma vigor

guards are heavies
thieves use leather.

hrmmmmmmmmm

we have no defense outside of being able to dodge. yes stealth helps but we still get hit.

oh btw did u know that warriors still out burst us? sure our single hit strikes are a tad higher when u add in things like BS …. but BS takes like 5-6 secs to set up most of the time unless a player is standing still. so you do it as dmg per second and we arent even top 2. hrmmmmmmmmmmmm. is insanely high burst for thief that op? no of course not. bc we cant stand still like other classes and continually attack. we have to take atleast 66% of our time to stealth/heal/dodge etc. so we are only doing dmg MAYBE 1/3rd of the time of a fight. prolly 20% in a larger fight. looking at numbers on paper is different than how it really affects.

kyubi.3620:

1. I dont see mesmer leaving pve if they actualy run phantasm to begin with.
2. Necro deserved some love
3. Warrior will still be apreciated
4. I see condition damage ranger and ranger in general doing a nice comeback in dungeons
5. running thief is perfectly possible as condition damage and venomshare
6. ele has a condition damage build as well but loosing some crit damage on gear wont affect it that much it will still be on par with other CD builds.

Why do people who know nearly nothing about PvE class balance always cry so loud for nerfs?

1. Ele is best dps by far. With more then 2 builds an weapons.
2. Ranger has got only 2 dmg multipliers (10% dmg if endurance is full) and 5% if u have a boon. Most of the dmg came from the pet, and critical dmg traited via skirmishing (and pet critical dmg…).

At the moment a ranger is nice choice. Most people are just to bad to play rangers well, or don´t know how good a ranger can be.

3. Conditionranger is horribal bad in PvE, probably the worst conditionclass.

4. Necros problem is not dps, they can deal a bit more then warriors. They lack of support and cleave dmg.

5. Mesmer DPS is horribel, and it will stay horribel. Phantasms scale with critical dmg aswell. But the biggest nerf to them is, reflection. Mesmers are usefull if they can their powerfull reflections, and they are nearly useless if they can´t use them.

6. Warriors don´t deal more dps without critical dmg, don´t know how people can think such things.

7. Even worse builds will get even more worse (Altrustic healing guard for example will lose much more dps then current metabuilds where no critical dmg is traited).

8. Some classes have 25 or 30 points in their criticaldmg trees. They will lose more dps then others (Necro, Thief and ranger).

In the same post u are talking about build viability and class balance. U disclaim that 3 or more classes can play conditionbuilds now. Wow, conditioncap, ever heard or it?
Ever thought then pure dire/rabid/carrion conditionbuilds should deal less dps because they´re tanky?

There is only one conditionset which should deal equal dps to zerk. And that´s rampager.
Rampager Necromancer or Engineer can deal pretty nice dps? Not as much as zerker, but close.

All other arguments about content and new/same problems will stay untouched, u should read the other threads. And use your brain, only one time please.

@Travelane…what u are talking about? U can use CnD and Backstep and fill your time with autoattack. There is no timewaste being stealthed. Thief dps is above warriors, but probably they will get nerfed more.

Norjena.5172:

4. Necros problem is not dps, they can deal a bit more then warriors. They lack of support and cleave dmg.

I would say they lack defense and Stability. They have what 2 skills with high cool downs and low duration as well 3 seconds Stability at the cost of 30trait points…

Then you get onto the defense Protection wise, 2 long cool down skills for 5-6seconds each isn’t enough for a class that is MEANT to be about attrition. Every other class gets stealth, Invul and immunities – what do we get? DeathShroud which worse the more people are attacking you – the opposite of immunities which are STRONGER the more you are attacked.

Damage wise, they are okay. With the right build, the right setup and everything they are okay. Considering that they have very little means of escape very weak against CC and such i think they could have a few things tweaked and improved.

Healing inside DeathShroud would be a start, Siphon traits working and all Signets working in DeathShroud would be good as well.

I talk about PvE only, i don´t care about Bunker Wars PvP/WvsW.

beside running sword as ranger norjena what can you run? the fact ranger is limited to one weapon and build style is far from ‘’a nice’’ choice. As for condiranger behing bad the spec has quite a wide array of condition (way more then sword warrior) and can run it hybrid way with pet physical damage. Sure you can run condition to as enginer or necro both are better but its kind of obvious that if ranger sword gets to be nerfed im not so sure youl not choose the other option around.