Guild Wars 2

Norjena.5172:

I talk about PvE only, i don´t care about Bunker Wars PvP/WvsW.

Well that’s too bad since we’re all in this together and changes to PVE will likely affect more than PVE.

I’m sure if changes to wvw leaked over to PVE, you wouldn’t be happy about that.

kyubi.3620:

beside running sword as ranger norjena what can you run? the fact ranger is limited to one weapon and build style is far from ‘’a nice’’ choice. As for condiranger behing bad the spec has quite a wide array of condition (way more then sword warrior) and can run it hybrid way with pet physical damage. Sure you can run condition to as enginer or necro both are better but its kind of obvious that if ranger sword gets to be nerfed im not so sure youl not choose the other option around.

Aslong as CC and Heal will stay useless, all othr builds will stay useless.

Even if Zerker would only do 10% more dps, it will still be the best.

Check it, nothing will change, nothing. All other builds will stay as usless as they are at the moment.

Longbowranger/axe (for example) is never viable, even in a full PVT/Clericsgruop the sword/GS ranger will do more dps and more support.
Hammerwarrior and so on, always the same.

Roe, Norjena, they balance WvW and PvE as one thing (other than the pet health). The conversation is moot.

stale.9785:

Roe, Norjena, they balance WvW and PvE as one thing (other than the pet health). The conversation is moot.

It should be they balance WvW and PvE together, except pet health AND CONDITION DAMAGE. Imagine if they made condi way more potent in PvE. Like increase its potency X amount for every point in condition damage you have for PvE. I don’t think that would be terrible thing to do. It would make condition builds worth a kitten in dungeons.

Norjena.5172:

kyubi.3620:

1. I dont see mesmer leaving pve if they actualy run phantasm to begin with.
2. Necro deserved some love
3. Warrior will still be apreciated
4. I see condition damage ranger and ranger in general doing a nice comeback in dungeons
5. running thief is perfectly possible as condition damage and venomshare
6. ele has a condition damage build as well but loosing some crit damage on gear wont affect it that much it will still be on par with other CD builds.

Why do people who know nearly nothing about PvE class balance always cry so loud for nerfs?

1. Ele is best dps by far. With more then 2 builds an weapons.
2. Ranger has got only 2 dmg multipliers (10% dmg if endurance is full) and 5% if u have a boon. Most of the dmg came from the pet, and critical dmg traited via skirmishing (and pet critical dmg…).

At the moment a ranger is nice choice. Most people are just to bad to play rangers well, or don´t know how good a ranger can be.

3. Conditionranger is horribal bad in PvE, probably the worst conditionclass.

4. Necros problem is not dps, they can deal a bit more then warriors. They lack of support and cleave dmg.

5. Mesmer DPS is horribel, and it will stay horribel. Phantasms scale with critical dmg aswell. But the biggest nerf to them is, reflection. Mesmers are usefull if they can their powerfull reflections, and they are nearly useless if they can´t use them.

6. Warriors don´t deal more dps without critical dmg, don´t know how people can think such things.

7. Even worse builds will get even more worse (Altrustic healing guard for example will lose much more dps then current metabuilds where no critical dmg is traited).

8. Some classes have 25 or 30 points in their criticaldmg trees. They will lose more dps then others (Necro, Thief and ranger).

In the same post u are talking about build viability and class balance. U disclaim that 3 or more classes can play conditionbuilds now. Wow, conditioncap, ever heard or it?
Ever thought then pure dire/rabid/carrion conditionbuilds should deal less dps because they´re tanky?

There is only one conditionset which should deal equal dps to zerk. And that´s rampager.
Rampager Necromancer or Engineer can deal pretty nice dps? Not as much as zerker, but close.

All other arguments about content and new/same problems will stay untouched, u should read the other threads. And use your brain, only one time please.

@Travelane…what u are talking about? U can use CnD and Backstep and fill your time with autoattack. There is no timewaste being stealthed. Thief dps is above warriors, but probably they will get nerfed more.

thief dmg per hit is higher by a lil. not DPS. warrior doesnt have to dodge go stealth or evade. he just deals out pretty much same dmg while taking it and not worrying about hp. thief takess a few secs while stealth to set up backstab unless ur lucky with a bad opponent. thief is only attacking probably 66% as much as a warrior and tryign to mitigate dmg the rest of the time. i main thief. its pretty much all i play. i got mine full ascended everything and 4 legendaries(1 of each). i know trust me.

I think you’re all whiners and babies so this is purely hypothetical.

Let’s say Anet does nothing EXCEPT nerf how much crit damage you get from gear. So you get the same crit damage from traits, etc.

- Elementalists will still be OP due to having outrageously high base damage. Their overall DPS will drop but they will still be top relative to the others. If anything they will pull ahead even more due to the fact that most of their damage comes from +% multipliers and raw base damage, not crits.

- Mesmers will drop significantly since most of their damage is stat-based. The fact that they still have precision and crit damage in the same line and going 30 into it is viable, this will be offset somewhat.

- Rangers will get better relatively since a good chunk of their damage comes from their pet, which was never affected by gear.

- Warriors, guardians, and necromancers will be basically the same.

- Engineers will get a huge boost relatively due to having a high percentage of condition damage and almost zero reliance on crit damage as a stat.

- I don’t care about thieves in the slightest.

My bet is: Crit damage will be reduced and crit chance will be increased (base crit damage will probably be set to 33% or 25% even overall precicion will be increased).

This way the overall crit damage will be the same but the one buttom wonders will be removed, this will not affect pve in any way but will create more consistend damage in pvp wvw it also will make on crit effects more reliable.

Crit damage roof? Depends on how much they nerf it. I know for my own part, who always PUG and usually just enter a group whatever it consist of, that I will become more picky if my personal DPS matter less among the “IplayhowIwant’s” who’s gear often are the least of their problems.

Overall, we’ll probably see a lot more zerker groups since bringing in non-pure DPS’ers will be more noticable, not less, for those that want speed runs.

Travlane.5948:

i agree about compesation. we are still due alot of compensation.

guards = perma vigor
thiefs = no perma vigor

guards are heavies
thieves use leather.

hrmmmmmmmmm

we have no defense outside of being able to dodge. yes stealth helps but we still get hit.

…

Thief has Feline Grace. It’s not as poweful as permavigor on its own, but on the other hand, has multiplicative effect with sigils of energy and any other endurance regen booster, like vigor (which is still available) itself.
It also has evasive weapon skills and/or blinds in most weapon sets and Withdraw, which is next to Shelter with half cooldown.
And then stealth.

I’m not saying Guardian doesn’t have active defenses. It has a lot of them, less than what a thief can have, but with access to protection on top of them.
It’s not also like Guardian base survivability is a lot higher than on thief. Both classes are low HP tier, and the armor difference is about, idk, a 6% direct damage reduction.

Gambit.8425:

Crit damage roof? Depends on how much they nerf it. I know for my own part, who always PUG and usually just enter a group whatever it consist of, that I will become more picky if my personal DPS matter less among the “IplayhowIwant’s” who’s gear often are the least of their problems.

Overall, we’ll probably see a lot more zerker groups since bringing in non-pure DPS’ers will be more noticable, not less, for those that want speed runs.

^ this
At the moment i don’t really care in PUG’s which set of gear everyone is running because I know that I can carry them with my damage. If they are nerfing the damage output of a zerker i will probably do gearchecks before dungeon runs and kick everyone who is not BiS equiped.

I would still run berseker gear, and all other sets would still be a joke in dungeons. GJ anet, I’m sure this will fix everything.

WWW players sghould be concerned more about on the possible drop in population if the nerf happens…..

Thieves, Mesmer and eles (celestial) who already got their ascended WWW set would possibly quit the game if their 600+ gold set becomes useless…..

Lol if the only change is bleeds crit in PvE

Considering how arena net hack and slash at the game can you realy expect the change to critical damage not to actualy be dramatic? Tbh as a player who dont rely on crit damage on all build ill likely be eating some pop corn while looking at the patch note on release however i hope theil make it so that zerk remains viable without behing top damage spec either (hey i still play zerk warrior and guardian i just want my other class to run something else).

Vargamonth.2047:

Travlane.5948:

i agree about compesation. we are still due alot of compensation.

guards = perma vigor
thiefs = no perma vigor

guards are heavies
thieves use leather.

hrmmmmmmmmm

we have no defense outside of being able to dodge. yes stealth helps but we still get hit.

…

Thief has Feline Grace. It’s not as poweful as permavigor on its own, but on the other hand, has multiplicative effect with sigils of energy and any other endurance regen booster, like vigor (which is still available) itself.
It also has evasive weapon skills and/or blinds in most weapon sets and Withdraw, which is next to Shelter with half cooldown.
And then stealth.

I’m not saying Guardian doesn’t have active defenses. It has a lot of them, less than what a thief can have, but with access to protection on top of them.
It’s not also like Guardian base survivability is a lot higher than on thief. Both classes are low HP tier, and the armor difference is about, idk, a 6% direct damage reduction.

listen. my guardian can SOLO priest of grenth….atleast if other people are keeping shades (some of them busy). my thief has absolutely NO chance at that and im main thief 99% of the time. so dont really wanna hear about base defense :P

thief even with feline grace has less energy then a guardian can. thats all that matters. yeap its true.

so if a guy is wearing full plate and its heavy as heck. youthink hes going to be having as much energy/endurance as a thief in leather that weights 90% less? cmon its just silly to think about it. guards have abuot 15 defensive things thief doesnt. yet thief is the one that gets vigor nerfed. anet is a bunch of catering $#&#$!#@ that only changes for QQers.

guardian has that theif doesnt:

1) high toughness
2) high armor
3) protection
4) aegis
5) invulnerabilty
6) blocks
7) protection
8) stability (srry lets not play nickle/dime game with DS)
9) about 6 full heals every minute
10) 5x more productive F mechanics
11) easy perma swiftness (yes thief has assassins reward but withotu that they dont have easy access to swiftness)
12)easy access to multiple boons at one click. 5-10+
13) Multiple Knockbacks
14) shield skills to bubble and keep enemies/projectiles out (thief has smokescreen but not even close the same)

so tell me why guardian should have more energy than a thief. guardian shouldnt have any vigor period. no heavy should have vigor. thats fair.

They have vigor because no matter what you run you’re still likely to get 1-2 shot by any boss attack. No defense is as important as dodge.

I still can’t believe they are doing stuff like that when the problems lies in the individual skills, traits and class mechanics.

The ele for example is the only class where the mechanics is actually a restriction instead of a bonus. For attunements to give boons you need to spend 20 traits points in Arcana, 5 in fire, 5 in air and 5 in water. Thats 35 points necessary just to make the elementalist mechanic “do something”.

Instead of fixing that they will just nerf their crit meta (because air is their only good offensive trait line). This will end up once again being a nerf to light classes.

Nerf power warriors in WvW and I’ll run condi. No use going power anymore when condi builds are so so much stronger.

@Travlane: a properly built thief can be just as survivable as a guardian, maybe even more. It’s just that to achieve that level of survivability you need to do heavy sacrifices that guardian doesn’t have to do, and you won’t be nearly as useful to other players as a tanky guardian is.

And no, guardian can never dodge/evade half as much as a thief can. 30 in acrobatics, withdraw, bountiful theft and you have feline grace + almost permanent vigor + active evades on weapons (s/d or s/p). With that setup you are dodging/evading more than you are actually open to attacks, not counting in blinds and/or stealth.

Please get your facts straight

Travlane.5948:

Vargamonth.2047:

Travlane.5948:

i agree about compesation. we are still due alot of compensation.

guards = perma vigor
thiefs = no perma vigor

guards are heavies
thieves use leather.

hrmmmmmmmmm

we have no defense outside of being able to dodge. yes stealth helps but we still get hit.

…

Thief has Feline Grace. It’s not as poweful as permavigor on its own, but on the other hand, has multiplicative effect with sigils of energy and any other endurance regen booster, like vigor (which is still available) itself.
It also has evasive weapon skills and/or blinds in most weapon sets and Withdraw, which is next to Shelter with half cooldown.
And then stealth.

I’m not saying Guardian doesn’t have active defenses. It has a lot of them, less than what a thief can have, but with access to protection on top of them.
It’s not also like Guardian base survivability is a lot higher than on thief. Both classes are low HP tier, and the armor difference is about, idk, a 6% direct damage reduction.

listen. my guardian can SOLO priest of grenth….atleast if other people are keeping shades (some of them busy). my thief has absolutely NO chance at that and im main thief 99% of the time. so dont really wanna hear about base defense :P

thief even with feline grace has less energy then a guardian can. thats all that matters. yeap its true.

so if a guy is wearing full plate and its heavy as heck. youthink hes going to be having as much energy/endurance as a thief in leather that weights 90% less? cmon its just silly to think about it. guards have abuot 15 defensive things thief doesnt. yet thief is the one that gets vigor nerfed. anet is a bunch of catering $#&#$!#@ that only changes for QQers.

guardian has that theif doesnt:

1) high toughness
2) high armor
3) protection
4) aegis
5) invulnerabilty
6) blocks
7) protection
8) stability (srry lets not play nickle/dime game with DS)
9) about 6 full heals every minute
10) 5x more productive F mechanics
11) easy perma swiftness (yes thief has assassins reward but withotu that they dont have easy access to swiftness)
12)easy access to multiple boons at one click. 5-10+
13) Multiple Knockbacks
14) shield skills to bubble and keep enemies/projectiles out (thief has smokescreen but not even close the same)

so tell me why guardian should have more energy than a thief. guardian shouldnt have any vigor period. no heavy should have vigor. thats fair.

Acrobatic thieves can have more regular evades than guardians.
Guardian can have 3 every 10 seconds, the regular one, another one from permavigor and a third one from sigil of energy.
An acrobatic thief with the same sigils reaches that with just 1/3 vigor upkeep (vigor on healing skill use) thanks to feline grace.

About the long list you made (which shows protection twice, don’t know if intended or no), I can see you’re comparing thief with a bunker/support guardian spec.
Is guardian better bunker/support than thief? Sure. Can facetank things easier in PvE? Absolutely.
Now, it would be interesting for you to make comparisions on both classes trying to perform other things like solo WvW roaming.

As someone who runs a power mesmer build with multiple pieces of ascended gear, if they nerf crit damage…yeah i might be taking a long break from the game. This is the main reason why i quit playing Planetside 2. It’s essentially a bait and switch tactic. You have something, that players acquire then it gets nerfed into the ground and is worthless. Then the player base moves onto the next thing. I didn’t deal with it in PS2 and won’t deal with it here. I’m ok with slight adjustments after a launch but the constant stat tweaking drives me completely insane.

LordByron.8369:

WWW players sghould be concerned more about on the possible drop in population if the nerf happens…..

Thieves, Mesmer and eles (celestial) who already got their ascended WWW set would possibly quit the game if their 600+ gold set becomes useless…..

this

well things like that happen dear… sometime you need to walk on some thorns to come up rose and it happen to be such a thing that nerfing critical damage is a thorn at the balance side as only way to make other build viable is to either nerf it or to UP everything else to a scaling where the game will break because everyone will get 1 shot by a 1k stack per second bleeding effect, Invincible pet wich deals 5k per strike and kill player in kitten or making thoughness so strong that the very fact of 5 man killing a tanking healing signet warrior in wvw will yield legendary weapon as a drop and will be considered a game exploit worth of a title called ‘’i killed chuck noris’’.

Im sure no one wants that but thats prety much all the other solution wich avoid nerfing berserker subjest because if you cant improve the viability of all the other build without ruining everything you might as well just cut at the one build that is way to strong in the current situation. Dont worry just because they fixed berserker doesnt mean they wont fix bunkers and condition damage next so youl have your justice soon or later.

Kyubi, I never have any idea what you’re talking about. Strange analogies about thorns does not a logical argument make.

We’re looking at a potentially radical upset of game balance which has already had a year and a half of tweaks. That alone is a dicey prospect. Further, we’re looking at changing gear because dungeons are old-hat and easy. Isn’t the problem here symptomatic of the fact that dungeons are old hat and easy?

the end result will be everyone suffering with lesser dps. making every task longer and boring. still will not fix the facts that people want more dps for pve, more condi and bunkers for wvw.

what will happen? if its nerfs, more people will get the kicking magic for dungeons and general pve content that are champions “not structures because those are PVT capable business”, reason?

more skills and understanding needed to utilize their classes efficiently and speed things up. who will feel the pinch? facetankers that wants cleric build everywhere.

why? because you simply cannot offer more dps to the groups since dps is already been nerfed. more strict policies for groups will be implemented. have fun trying to find a group that will carry a log thru a dungeon.

Making dungeon harder wont in anyway make zerker not the dps star anymore neither will it make control and support spec any more apreciated… well just end up with slightly weaker critical damage meta running around with support utility and pretending to control the mobs with a single ability.

Anyway when i talk about nerfing berserker i dont talk about killing them but actualy revising weither or not critical damage shouldnt be redone or replaced with a defrent stat ALSO damage oriented wich wouldnt have such devastating scaling issue.

A log what are you talking about? Ah at this point well just run a condition damage a few zerker and maybe a support or a control this aint any new. Likely elite teams will start looking more like the casual ones cept people will stop looking at gear and build and look more at the player skill in general.

Thull.2736:

^ this
At the moment i don’t really care in PUG’s which set of gear everyone is running because I know that I can carry them with my damage. If they are nerfing the damage output of a zerker i will probably do gearchecks before dungeon runs and kick everyone who is not BiS equiped.

Lol, acting as if Dungeons require a special skill or something. Guess what – They don’t. Before the nerf to Zerkers it was easy after the nerf it will still be easy. Rather than focus on gear they should be looking at the CONTENT and why it leads people to go the gear route they do – it is because most of it is SO easy.

Boyd.5438:

the end result will be everyone suffering with lesser dps. making every task longer and boring. still will not fix the facts that people want more dps for pve, more condi and bunkers for wvw.

what will happen? if its nerfs, more people will get the kicking magic for dungeons and general pve content that are champions “not structures because those are PVT capable business”, reason?

more skills and understanding needed to utilize their classes efficiently and speed things up. who will feel the pinch? facetankers that wants cleric build everywhere.

why? because you simply cannot offer more dps to the groups since dps is already been nerfed. more strict policies for groups will be implemented. have fun trying to find a group that will carry a log thru a dungeon.

I agree. Nerfing zerkers will hurt other setups more. I run dungeons often and I enjoy running with new players and pugs. As a full zerker, it doesn’t matter what setup my group runs as I have enough dps to carry the group to finish at a decent time. If my dps is drop significantly then it would mean now we need another zerker in the party just to make up the loss. In other words, demand for zerker would increase, and players who run defensive gears would face more ridicule for their lack of dps contribution. Bottom line, this makes the situation worst. Changing game mechanics is the only proper solution, nerfing critical damage is like throwing salt in the wound.

you talk like if running multi zerk will still carry the team more then running other builds. Did you envisage that running an actual balanced team might end up behing more viable then running 5 of the same thing. You shouldnt be able or have to carry your team in the first place. Im sure even if you didnt run zerker that pug team wich goes to fractal lvl 40s+ with you wouldnt still be doing quite wll as content was designed to be doable by everyone and relatively easy. You put up excuse as to why youd recruit more ‘’ zerker’’ in your team when you wouldnt need zerker in the first place to clean it.

If anything puting zerker in line is the first step to balancing the scale and making a counter to bunkering is the second step.

making pvt half as effective wouldnt make pvt not the bunker star anymore neither will it make zerker dps build any more apreciated. well just end up with slightly faster deaths and slightly weaker bunkers running around with support utility and pretending to tank all fights.

meh.. seriously? reducing the dps to what limit? 50% reduction? might as well go knights or smth then. zerker will likely be non existant. make more nerfs towards condi and pvt as well all at the same time. its not fair to take players as beta testers. this game is way over the beta period.

that reward for running a 1 hit KO build is removed, there will be no point in running a 1 hit KO build anymore.

where is the fun? dont get me wrong, the point of playing zerkers is because its fun, its challenging, its giving myself a reason to play pve content. nerfing it to the point where its trash, will mark the end of pve for me. im done. ive been here since launch and been seeing so many nerfs due to trends on forums, its always happening when holidays are on and people are crying foul. most of the time people that are on forums are rarely ingame playing. instead complaining here asking for a change.

i have already became one now waiting to see the end result of their patch, or to read their patch notes regarding this issue to stay or leave. its that bad. well yea, i just wanna cut losses if it is bad and invest time somewhere else. no point continue playing something that is just changing the core constantly. might as well just start gw3 if so much major “tweaks” are going to be made outside of beta.

as i have stated before somewhere on the forums…

zerker isnt the meta, its how the player contribute to the group. reducing damage dealing will make people seek more damage/conditions that grant more damage being dealt to speed up the run.

there is no discrimination against soldiers or whatever that is BUT it is a very likely scenario where people will find condi duration builds that stack vuln and might with direct damage hence making pure condi build AND healing builds redundant in dungeons even further.

I dream of a day a meta team would run a conditionmancer a support unit a control unit and 2 physical damage unit, dont you?

Balance and diversity cannot be achieved when a single build is the only viable choice and even when it comes to meta i should be able to run several possible meta wich all are as much effective in their own way rather then a single one.

judgement hour got delayed for 2 more hours….oh the suspense lol

Hopefully that’s because the responses they’ve seen here have given them a more accurate impression of what the majority of the player base might actually think.

People are coming out of the woodwork to state their disbelief about possible critical damage nerfs. And that’s only the people who are really on top of update news – this only became an official ANet talking point, like, a day ago.

I just want this restated as many times as possible: Fix the state of endgame PvE content. Don’t randomly wreck multiple gearsets. That’ll take time, we get it. We’ll wait some more, just please do this the right way and address the actual problem.

I certainly hope they nerf condition damage in an equal way or at least give zerker gear +vit, like it does in PvP. Otherwise, condi builds will be even stronger than they are currently.

This is about WvW, obviously.