Guild Wars 2

Dear ArenaNet designers,
This is a personal experience 7 and a general experience asking other players about their experiences from various guilds and different worlds.

Playing all the dungeons, i have come to a disappointing conclusion.
This is not a rant but rather an observation/disappointment.

1st Problem (the Big Problem)
All the time the LFG is full of Zerk groups made up from 4 Warriors or Guardians and 1 Mesmer or Thief (mainly Mesmer).
Add in some groups maybe an Elementalist. Thats where the variation ends.

Zerk gear is the Berserker gear (Power, Precision, Critical)
Warriors/Guardians have the best Critical progression/multipliers/maximum dps.
Mesmer or Thief is selected for aoe stealth.

You will rarely find any other groups. Zerk parties mainly (because they do the best dps)
If you try to enter these groups and you are not one of the classes i mentioned, be warned.
You will be kicked.
Yes classes like Necromancers, Engineers, Rangers, and some times even Thieves and Elementalists will be kicked.

Why Arenanet? I dont know how balanced the game is, after all ranger is my first class.
But for so many Zerk groups to be kicking the classes they seem to know they are not that good, that tells something.

I even asked the kickers why they kick people after kicking me and because i was seeing them kicking others, and they said because of my class/other peoples’ classes.
Yeah people, kicked because of a class. And they werent trolls, thats the sad part.

I initially thought the game is balanced, but after so much time spending in dungeons i can see that it isnt.
clearly there are some strong classes and the rest are weaker.

2nd Problem
There are some paths that no one wants to play.
After playing them, i can understand why.
They give the same loot for triple and quadruple the effort.
I am speaking for Paths like (Aetherblade, Arah 4, CoF 3 mainly, and some others secondarily). Either they need to give way more loot (like double the dungeon currency ex. 80 and a stronger chest reward)

I cant tell how many hours i spent trying to find groups for them.

3rd Problem
Path sellers (specifically Arah)
After waiting for hours for Path 4, I felt even by a tiny bit temped to buy the path from the Path sellers (another despicable outcome of the bad dungeon reward design on some paths).
I didnt buy it eventually. I found a group and we finished the Path in 2 hours (mostly because some people left at various points of the game)
2 hours and all we earned was the same reward as all the other paths (Problem 2)
I havent so far bought a path, but others may succumb to this practice.
I cant blame them after suffering so much.

I think about trying it on Aetherblade path (the only path i am missing for the achievement)
Reason? I have spent many days trying to find groups that are willing to do the path.

Get your act together, dear ArenaNet designers, or people will eventually stop doing dungeons all together.
Btw now most people in dungeons as i have previously mentioned are in Zerk gear-fest now.

PS2: And YES i have been using the LFG to make my own group from day 1.

Problem remains, most of the classes have lower damage output.
You may not want to hear it, i didnt want to hear it, i have calculated it, people have calculated it.
As long as there are worse dps classes, Zerk groups will continue to dominate the LFG.
Because its by game design, pls dont blame the players, i certainly didnt.
Although “tryhards” exists in all games.

I don’t know…..the guild that I belong to is really good about running some of the dungeons every Saturday, and the guild dungeon groups take any and all classes in the guild……

Sounds to me more like what you’re running into is dungeon pug attitude, which is not necessarily the fault of the game makers.

Jmo

Some observations on your post:

1) The idea that certain classes can’t zerk well is false. Those groups that say “zerk warrior and guardian + mes only” are full of people that aren’t actually true speed runners. Case in point: Mesmer has pretty low dps and really is wanted for glamours and time warp. Thief has the highest single target dps in the game (very useful on bosses). Elementalists using scepter/dagger can stack 15-21 stacks of might before a fight. Engis can stack 15-18 stacks of might before a fight. My zerk necro hits for 15K on his life siphon. Ranger’s can bring spotter and frost spirit to increase dps. My point is that every class can have a viable zerk build and add a lot to the party. People that think a class isn’t useful in a speed run in any capacity are just people that don’t understand the mechanics of this game that well. So you are incorrect in assuming certain classes aren’t viable in dungeon runs. I can literally give you a high dps build for any class that can be used in speed runs.

2) I agree with your point. The rewards don’t match the effort. The crappy AI in this game encourages speed runs because the rewards aren’t great, and doing it the real way isn’t enforced. If they want dungeons to be challenging the should fix their AI AND make the rewards better. If they fix the AI without making the rewards better, people just won’t run them because it isn’t worth it anymore.

3) There is absolutely nothing wrong with path sellers. It is a way for some people to earn a good income for being exceptionally skilled. I’ve personally duoed/soloed different dungeon paths before (pre patch nerf) and I find it an actually entertaining challenge (since this game lacks any real hardcore content). I personally have never sold paths as I usually just invite guildies to join me for the last chest so that they get the reward for free. I have no problem, however, with those that do sell paths, and I think they deserve the reward if people are too lazy to run it themselves. Any path can be done, and there are people that will do them. You just have to make a post yourself instead of relying on joining someone elses. I did all of the dungeons in this game the real way just by posting on LFG. (I only later learned how to speed run/solo dungeons). And yes I spent 6 hours in Arah p4 (mainly because of difficulties someone in our party had with one of the mechanics, but I’m their friend, so we did it until they could do it), but I feel I earned my title the real way.

Overall I would just give you one piece of advice. Join a good guild. That way you can get people to run any dungeon with you, and you aren’t going to get kicked by people who think certain classes can’t zerk speed run.

Been in the game since release and never have been in a dungeon. As a lvl 80 Ranger i’m just not wanted. Even with my zerker gear it makes no difference. I’ve just settled that this is part of the game i’ll never see.

zerker would increse power alot and redece user amor…. minus value.

As a filthy Zerker, OP you have no clue what you’re talking about. Are you seriously taking what PuGs and their kittened lfg posts say to be true?

wmtyrance.3571:

Been in the game since release and never have been in a dungeon. As a lvl 80 Ranger i’m just not wanted. Even with my zerker gear it makes no difference. I’ve just settled that this is part of the game i’ll never see.

Have you been hiding under a rock for the past year then?

i have a high dps build. but it doesnt matter.
most people in dungeons are zerkers.
They dont want the mediocre classes messing with their fast clear times.
Cant say i blame them. After all this is all about efficiency.

Since i have completed all paths except Aetherblade, i will only bother replaying only the quickest paths.
But i feel sad for those who will try the hard paths for the first time.

I can see that you have no idea how berserker works and those groups that kick people for not being a war/guard also don’t know how it works.

The reason you don’t see certain paths done is because they take too long. Just make your own groups and wait. Don’t get mad just because people don’t want to do things the way you want them to.

geogyf.5087:

After all this is all about efficiency.

To lots of players out there, it’s all about fun and enjoyment and who gives a kitten about maximum efficiency. When parts of the game become all about maximum speed and efficiency to me, then the whole thing starts becoming too much like a job, instead of an enjoyable game.

1. This is basically because how conditions work, not only in dungeons, also in open world boss events. Blame the game design, not dungeons.
2. I agree.
3. I don’t see anything wrong with legit path sellers. If they enjoy soloing/making money this way, why not? In some cases, besides the tokens, you even get free gold.

Edit: I see rangers/necro/engis ALL the time in my dungeon runs!

Have you tried using the LFG tool to make your own group?

I always do dungeons on my ranger, usually with a PUG and I’ve done quite a few; all paths in TA and HotW multiple times to get he HotW coat and TA leggings and at least 1 path in all the others. Plus all the Living Story dungeons.

If I don’t see a casual/everyone welcome group I advertise for one and it usually takes about 20 minutes at most, sometimes it’s a couple of minutes.

There aren’t as many casual groups as zerker groups true, but they also fill up quicker because they’re less selective so there’s more potential people available.

Teon.5168:

geogyf.5087:

After all this is all about efficiency.

To lots of players out there, it’s all about fun and enjoyment and who gives a kitten about maximum efficiency. When parts of the game become all about maximum speed and efficiency to me, then the whole thing starts becoming too much like a job, instead of an enjoyable game.

I disagree, many find obtaining efficiency via tweaking their builds and matching up with different combinations very enjoyable and more engaging. I consider gaming a hobby and it allows people focus on something other than their day-to-day lives. Improving efficiency helps them focus. Sort of similar to people who add additions to their cars, not to make it more practical, but to be more efficient in mileage, speed and/or sound.

Back on OP’s topic, sure it may be frustrating that most groups require certain gear/classes, however many have found that these combinations of classes and gear often makes the run more enjoyable since they’ve experienced that with a party of similar setups, they either make it or break it, and is more reliable rather than frustrating.

And please remember to read the lfg notes, if they are looking for specific gear/classes, don’t be surprised when you get a kick if you don’t meet their requirements.

I wonder how long you’ve been doing these samples. I see non zerk groups and groups full of non war/guard all the time. I think you might have a memory bias here, wherein the groups you take notice of the most are the groups that have restrictions. Heck, I join pure zerk groups with my engineer and necromancer all the time, and the vast majority of the time these guys are fine with it.

That whole war/guards only thing is an extremely antiquated meta, perpetuated by players who don’t care enough to learn otherwise. The warrior can be outdamaged by Ele (highest damage overall), thief (highest non-FGS single target damage), necromancer (high single target damage), mesmer (reflects and long lived phantasms rack up damage on enemies), and probably Guardian as well. I don’t know much about rangers, but I see lupi speed clears using them all the time, so they have to be doing something. So, the only blacksheep left is the Engi, which generally hits for 5 in an AoE, is excellent at stacking vulnerability and buffs, and also has the most versatility in the game.

The only class that could use a buff in PVE is the necromancer, and that is because it lacks good cleave, and also has extremely fragmented support skills that focus on debuffs.

So many misinformation and bullkitten in the OP post …
Make your own LFG. All of your problem is solved forever.
And please someone delete this thread. :S

The real problem here is ‘false meta’, although Mr. Spider has covered it nicely.

I want to join Crucible of Eternity to get tokens for armor but won’t as I’m sure I’ll get kicked. I don’t know how CoE is an what to do. My survivability isn’t the best either.
Most of the LFG-groups is only looking for zerks, warriors, players with 5,000+ achievement points.

Zorby.8236:

As a filthy Zerker, OP you have no clue what you’re talking about. Are you seriously taking what PuGs and their kittened lfg posts say to be true?

wmtyrance.3571:

Been in the game since release and never have been in a dungeon. As a lvl 80 Ranger i’m just not wanted. Even with my zerker gear it makes no difference. I’ve just settled that this is part of the game i’ll never see.

Have you been hiding under a rock for the past year then?

I don’t believe so let me check. No but i have tried getting in groups and have been told no because i’m a Ranger. So i just go do something else.

You can start your own group. Start out with AC, and work your way through.

Alternatively, there are many groups (most) without class restrictions…

I don’t know if this has already been said above, but it seems to me the people who say they can’t find groups just aren’t using the right method. I have never had any problem whatsoever finding a group and have never been kicked. The secret is simply this: MAKE YOUR OWN LFG. Whenever I make an LFG, I type things that I want in a group, such as “watching cutscenes” or “story mode.” I’m clearly not looking for a zerker speed clear. But all the same, these LFG posts result in groups in literally seconds, or a few minutes at most. Unless I’ve been extremely lucky, the same should work for you. So, forget the unfilled groups that have pending LFG posts. Just make your own!

Seriously, I didn’t read the replies, or even OP’s whole post. So I apologize if I’m way off base with this. I’m really just trying to help.

Make your own group

/thread

“Have you tried using the LFG tool to make your own group?”

LOL
Next time try to read more thoroughly the articles.
How you think i have completed my dungeon runs.

The main problem is that usually not enough people care about the dungeons.
Lets face it, the majority of people are the Zerk builds.
If you dont believe me try Arah or CoF or w/e dungeon you want

Only selective paths will be farmed and you will see mainly Zerk groups.
ex easy paths CoF P1, P2, Honor Of the Waves P1, Twilight Arbor P1, P2

Some dungeons dont even get farmed that much (ex Inquest)

In fact in many situations, in the groups i found we decided to do all paths together in 1 run (rather than wait endlessly for other people to show)
(example Inquest, Arah, Caudecus estate)

wmtyrance, I’ve been running dungeons on my lvl 80 ranger for more than a year now. to my knowledge, i never have been in zerker gear (nor am i a bearbow ranger). aside from a paladin in TA-Aether, i’ve never gotten any grief over my profession or choice of gear.

to this day, i’ve run almost every single path at least once and only rl is stopping me from doing dungeon runs more often

smekras.8203:

wmtyrance, I’ve been running dungeons on my lvl 80 ranger for more than a year now. to my knowledge, i never have been in zerker gear (nor am i a bearbow ranger). aside from a paladin in TA-Aether, i’ve never gotten any grief over my profession or choice of gear.

to this day, i’ve run almost every single path at least once and only rl is stopping me from doing dungeon runs more often

Thats awesome to hear. Maybe i’ve just been unlucky. Can you give me some advice on how you run through with your Ranger please? How do you set your pet and which pets do you use? I would like to hear how i should be prepared as a Ranger.

Complaining about how others want to play the game helps the game how? Just make your own group and clearly state in the lfg window (new to path, watching cutscenes, etc) and you’ll get a group whenever you want. I see groups all the time advertised for whatever classes along with the zerk only groups. Play the game how you want and let others play it how they want. These zerk groups don’t hurt you.

When they advertise “zerk only” and you aren’t running a zerk build, why do you join it? When you go to a restaurant and order from the menu you are stating what you want but according to your post you’d be fine with the chef saying nope, we’re not serving that today and you’ll get this no matter what you ordered. It’s the same in dungeons, you want to run a certain way, make your own group and run it that way and let the others play how they want.

1) If you want to speed run a dungeon then use meta builds (this not only includes zerker gear but also traits and skill rotation). If not then please do not join those groups. It’s really not difficult.
I do not run any meta builds. I run dungeons regularly using the LFG tool. “Story any welcome”, “P3 any welcome”. My groups fill up with in 5 minutes max. Yes they take longer than a speed run but I have the time and I really don’t care. Simply put. Make your own LFG.

2) Either find a guild or just wait a little longer on the LFG. They will fill up with people wanting to do the path because they’ve not done it before or not done it in a while.

3) There’s nothing wrong with path sellers as long as they’re neither exploiting the path or using a full party and kicking people just before the boss.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I don’t know much about rangers, but I see lupi speed clears using them all the time, so they have to be doing something.

It basically boils down to when you play ranger right, it’s an amazing asset to the team. But when you play ranger wrong, it is very obvious and it hurts your team more than probably any other class when played wrong.

At the core of the issue is that ranger in this game plays very differently than other classes of its archetype in other MMOs, and a great number of ranger players either don’t know, or refuse to adapt (“I’m called RANGEr, k?”).

In Guild Wars 2, any class above light armor really is expected to be an inside/out class (and even among light armor classes, some of their best weapons are “melee”). Your primary damage is supposed to come from melee. If I’m with a solid group of guildies, I run sword/warhorn and either greatsword or dagger off-hand in my secondary set. In PUGs, yeah, I’ll use a shortbow secondary because sometimes you gotta get out of the kitchen and you can’t rely on proper buffs from people you don’t know well.

But with the ranger class, you have a large glut of these “bearbow” players who run Longbow/Shortbow with a tank pet (like you play WoW’s Hunter class) and not only does your damage plummet, you’re usually out of range for your unique and powerful buffs to affect your party (presuming the bearbow ranger even brings them to the table).

And since there’s no way to really know just what ranger you’re accepting into your party until you’re already underway, most speed-clear PUGs just decide it’s not worth the gamble. It sucks… but I understand it, and I don’t entirely blame them.

Alright OP. Would you love playing AC P1 with 5 Cleric Nerocos, Rangers and Engineers for an hour?
Or would you rather form a party of experienced players who have full zerker set and do the dungeon in about 10 minutes or less?

wmtyrance.3571:

Thats awesome to hear. Maybe i’ve just been unlucky. Can you give me some advice on how you run through with your Ranger please? How do you set your pet and which pets do you use? I would like to hear how i should be prepared as a Ranger.

I also run dungeons as a Ranger. Sword or Greatsword would be a weapon I’d advise you use. See which you prefer. I prefer sword but it can really take some getting used to. Traits you’ll want Spotter and Vigorous Spirits as a minimum. Also Frost Spirit is a good utility to take.

Change your pet to passive/aggressive when needed. If you’re skipping mobs then set it to passive. Against a boss then aggressive. You get the idea. Also remember to use your F2 ability.

Pet wise Cat’s (Jungle Stalker’s), Moa’s and Drakes are good. I prefer Drakes for the blast and cleave abilities.

so i am not the only ranger that uses sword… huh…

oh and wmtyrance, check your pm

Rangers are not bad if you go full zerker melee.
Rangers are bad if you just max range everything with your bow.
Rangers encourage really passive and lazy gameplay.

My main is ele, been playing it for 1500h so far. My experience with dungeons or fractals are various. No class is perfect, it really depends on the style you play. Personally, i had mostly positive experience in dungeons or fractals, never been kicked, i once left when two stubborn rangers kicked my guildie from a party thats all. But most stubborn players are mostly rangers, so sorry to say that but in my 2000+ fractals that is my conclusion. Ofc i’m going to kick you after trying to talk nicely to you trying to explain after 6th wipe to please at least switch some traits or try melee just for that boss, but instead you stay max ranged doing lousy dmg, dying then two more ppl die trying to res you, and then cursing at me after being nice? Sorry sir, but you are out. I have a ranger too i love them so very much but pve and dungeon build are suposed to be very different.

I run dungeons every day and have never EVER had a problem finding a non-zerker group. I almost always see LFGs asking for lvl 80’s and experience, and only sometimes zerker requests. Most LFG’s I’ve seen are not asking for zerk. I’ve never had to wait more than a minute or two to join or a group. And when I advertise (which I do about half the time) I don’t ask for zerk or any particular professions, and I’ve never noticed a dungeon run taking noticably longer with necros, thieves and engineers. Altho I have noticed Rangers typically don’t really bring anything noteworthy to the table, again haven’t really noticed them causing a huge slowdown in progress either.

So I don’t get the need to request zerker gear, but I certainly don’t understand how that could be a problem either.

Nick.6972:

Rangers encourage really passive and lazy gameplay.

According to you and your bias against the Profession. No Profession encourages “lazy play”-want me to be more honest, even Guardian and Warriors are more “lazy play” than Ranger playstyle, talking from ample experience.

Star Ace.5207:

Nick.6972:

Rangers encourage really passive and lazy gameplay.

even Guardian and Warriors are more “lazy play” than Ranger playstyle, talking from ample experience.

I main a Warrior and a Ranger – and I have to agree. With my warrior I can mindlessly facetank the crap outta anything spamming 2 on gs . To hit as hard with my Ranger, I had to really put some thought into my traits and gear, and my attack sequence. I’m still no where near as productive in a dungeon, but in PvE just solo roaming with my pet I can usually kill baddies faster with my ranger than my warrior as long as i weapon swap and pay attention to my attack rotation. (GS is my main weapon of choice, i go A/A to help augment my GS attacks. Hate hate hate LongBow i will never use it, don’t understand why so many rangers prefer it.)

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Hate hate hate LongBow i will never use it, don’t understand why so many rangers prefer it.)

Hey, it does have its uses. When I’m in the open world, and a huge world event starts up that spawns a heap of mobs, Barrage followed by Hunter’s Shot (after all the barrage ticks end… that is very important) deals a nice amount of AoE damage and clears aggro for a few seconds. Rapid Fire can be nice if the people you’re with aren’t maxing out Vulnerability readily (though that rarely happens).

Learn to avoid the “4” when you’re on longbow, and it’s not terrible, just very situational.

chemiclord.3978:

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Hate hate hate LongBow i will never use it, don’t understand why so many rangers prefer it.)

Hey, it does have its uses. When I’m in the open world, and a huge world event starts up that spawns a heap of mobs, Barrage followed by Hunter’s Shot (after all the barrage ticks end… that is very important) deals a nice amount of AoE damage and clears aggro for a few seconds. Rapid Fire can be nice if the people you’re with aren’t maxing out Vulnerability readily (though that rarely happens).

Learn to avoid the “4” when you’re on longbow, and it’s not terrible, just very situational.

Agreed.

geogyf.5087:

“Have you tried using the LFG tool to make your own group?”

LOL
Next time try to read more thoroughly the articles.
How you think i have completed my dungeon runs.

The main problem is that usually not enough people care about the dungeons.
Lets face it, the majority of people are the Zerk builds.
If you dont believe me try Arah or CoF or w/e dungeon you want

Only selective paths will be farmed and you will see mainly Zerk groups.
ex easy paths CoF P1, P2, Honor Of the Waves P1, Twilight Arbor P1, P2

Some dungeons dont even get farmed that much (ex Inquest)

In fact in many situations, in the groups i found we decided to do all paths together in 1 run (rather than wait endlessly for other people to show)
(example Inquest, Arah, Caudecus estate)

Problem 1
You are talking about “farming” here.

Farming in an mmorpg is a repetitive chore with the goal of gathering resources.

The normal player has a limited time to spend on games, so those players logically would choose a method that would give the best rewards for time they spent.

Now going with that logic, those players would want the fastest clear time possible for their party and ideally have every person in that party pull their own weight. This is normal behavior, unless people only play dungeons to have fun and not farm, this will always be the norm even for other games.

Those parties only looking for heavies only want a somewhat reliable group composition because heavies are alot more forgiving when you make mistakes. A well played ele & ranger will always give higher group DPS after 1-2 warriors and you only need 1 guardian(or not at all) in a party. The only class that badly needs some love in dungeons is necro because they lack reliable tools to increase party DPS or party damage mitigation.

Problem 2
Again, people are running dungeons mainly to farm, I totally agree with you on this that time spent on content must match the rewards. But you must also consider the fact that if it takes you 2 hours to do content, it doesn’t necesarrily mean it takes everyone 2 hours too.

Daily reward has to match time spent with the assumption you will not be running around like headless chickens inside without any knowledge of the correct strategy to run the content.

Problem 3
Path selling isn’t the problem.

Your example, Arah P4 is exactly the same as problem 1 & 2.

Your group doesn’t know Arah P4 & may not run “zerk elitist builds” that’s why you end up with 2 hours in it. A group that knows the mechanics and running meta builds will clear it in less than 30 minutes or so.

If a player’s goal is to farm and he is capable of 3 manning Arah p4 in 30+ minutes, they will do so and sell it for 10g(not sure what prices are now) each slot. A player who is not experienced and maybe would take 2 hours with a pug group to clear Arah p4 would buy it if he can make more than 10g in 2 hours doing something else(mainly for dungeon master title). If anet increases the reward to match the unexperienced group’s time(lets say 2 hours cost 8-10g) then others doing it properly will be generating 8-10g x 5 in 30 minutes. A typical path takes 10-15 minutes giving 1g30s+x 5, lets be generous and make it 10 minutes per path, so that’s 4g+ x5 generated in 30 minutes. Do you see the big difference in gold generated here?

Generating gold is different from getting paid by other players and the trend anet is on regarding gold generation for this patch is nerfing everything(champ trains, dungeon chests, etc.).

wmtyrance.3571:

Been in the game since release and never have been in a dungeon. As a lvl 80 Ranger i’m just not wanted. Even with my zerker gear it makes no difference. I’ve just settled that this is part of the game i’ll never see.

lol, thats funny.

I’ve ran with many rangers in dungeons/fracs. They’re just fine to play with, just dont jpin a group looking for a certain class.
There are many lfg’s that simply say “lv80”, I often open as an “all welcome”. Though I wouldnt suggest doing that yourself as you coud get a group who dont have a clue about the dungeon.

There’s nothing stopping you setting an lfg then going to do whatever you want, why you wait for it to fill. Also, small guilds are great for dungeon grouping, you may want to look into one.

Weir.5691:

I want to join Crucible of Eternity to get tokens for armor but won’t as I’m sure I’ll get kicked. I don’t know how CoE is an what to do. My survivability isn’t the best either.
Most of the LFG-groups is only looking for zerks, warriors, players with 5,000+ achievement points.

post an lfg saying “new”, it will take a little longer than 5 min to fill up, but there are many experienced players that are happy to play with people new to whatever and show the ropes.
Just make sure you’re willing to listen.

I have made several posts on topics like this, and most of them got deleted, because of excessive censorship from moderator side. (for no real reason i think that would be untrue-_-)

First of all : This topic proves Anet was wrong, in seeing trinity as the root of the problem. (A problem that Lfg. takes a lot of time. )

So basically :
-They take trinity and the ability to play differing combat roles. (crippling the class and combat system)
-To help players in general game play, so that any combination of classes can do anything.

Problem with that : You can do anything with any class anyway already, since the game itself is designed so.
(when you said we do not, need dedicated healer, or tank, we thought any class can do anything, in contradiction you taken all roles.)

I mean the perfect example is There is this champion we want to kill, we can do it, we dont have tank or healer, but i would so love to go and support my teammates because i feel like it….but i cant)

So basically the game is crippled by its very core…not even god can help this now.
They can only go deeper and mess up things more.

Reasons why I don’t do dungeons:

A) I find Warriors, Guardians, and Thieves extremely boring and skill-less to play
B) Some people are too serious and anal about group make-up and strategy
C) The kicking issue, I’d prefer people afk/trolling then report them instead
D) They are a requirement for building a legendary ( further enforces (B) )

One of the ways they can fix the above is remove the kick option and take a far more progressive and active roll in banning people who afk in dungeons. Also don’t allow people to enter dungeons with multiple classes (IE, you can’t go in with 2 warriors, only one of each class).

Their dps nerf to zerker gear wasn’t going to fix any of the above; it’s still the go to build in all aspects of PvE, this will not change. Unless they bring back the holy trinity (which I hope they don’t), zerker gear will always remain king of PvE.

DeadlySynz.3471:

A) I find Warriors, Guardians, and Thieves extremely boring and skill-less to play
B) Some people are too serious and anal about group make-up and strategy
C) The kicking issue, I’d prefer people afk/trolling then report them instead
D) They are a requirement for building a legendary ( further enforces (B) )

A) So don’t play one of those classes. Pick one you enjoy and off you go. BTW most actual meta groups prefer to take at least one (if not two) Elementalists. Don’t believe me, then ask in the Dungeon forum.
B) Don’t join those groups then. Find a more chilled one. Or better yet start your own group. Also remember to start the instance.
C) What issue? People get kicked it happens. Ignore the muppets that do and find a cool group.
D) Fail to see an issue here. Making a legendary also requires a lot of other stuff.

I am still looking for these dungeon groups which just kick people.

I’m serious.

I just never see it. Mind you, Mesmer here and my GF plays a Ranger. And? Where do you find these apparently illiterate dungeon groups which just kick? I thought all the ex-CoF players are in QD and FGS now?

To be fair, 3 warrior guardian mesmer groups still isn’t god’s gift to humanity. Engies are better stealth than mesmers, ele’s are better damage than warriors (though I believe they did get a buff with this patch in terms of damage), rangers with spotter and frost spirit are valuable. Only class that really doesn’t bring anything is necromancer sadly. Mesmers also have a problem with phantasms and utilities being overshadowed by guardian, needs work.