Guild Wars 2

First off..
1) I have both at 80 and geared for WvW. I’ve played both from Zerk spec to Condition Spec. The Thief is my favorite though. I play it with only shadow refuge and hide in shadows as my stealth. I REFUSE to play the extremely cheap way.

2) There are certain ways of playing them which is by far overpowered against any class. There needs to be a balance and fairness across the board.

3) The over powered/stupid way uses no skill but, in most cases macros and therefore no fun. It is easy to see who macros in abilities so one key press does multiple actions. Fixing the stealth issues will stop a lot of this.

4) The blackpowder/heartseeker stealth means the thief can have near permanent regeneration going on during combat. “Shadow Protector” gives base 1738 health over 10 seconds. Shadow Rejuv heals you each second you are in stealth. I get around 500 health per tick for the two combined. 12 seconds of invis due to shadow refuge alone will get me about 6000 health. Add in the HS stealth and that is another 2000 health in 4 seconds. who cares about heal debuffs when stealth can be applied at will until all damage is negated.

Want to fix stealth for thief? Put a reveal on the stealth which comes from blackpowder/heartseeker. 4 seconds which means right after the backstab they cannot restealth and just keep regening health non stop like so many do. Makes it fair for those classes who cannot stealth and heal up when ever they feel like it.

Want to fix stealth for Mesmer? Give their stealth a reveal. On my thief I use 2 and only two stealths, which are abilities and have reveal. On my mesmer I have 3 different stealth abilities and no reveal. With all the dodging and clones I have the stealth just makes me impossible to kill unless I get jumped by three or more enemies.

So.. Like I said. These are the two classes I play for WvW and I find them both far too powerful when using the stealth mechanics the abusive way. My fix is what I would like to see for the classes in order to make them wvw on par with other classes. But for now… my choice is to play them the non ridiculous way.

D/P is annoying and I do agree it should be adjusted since it is effectively as cheap to use as CnD with a blind and none of the melee downside. However as a Silver thief with well over 1k hours on the class in WvW play, it is not OP against every other class. Not even close actually.

Mesmer invis is fine. They may be dominating solo fights right now but stealth is only a small part of their arsinal (intentional misspell so it didn’t come out kittenal).

I respect your thoughts. I’m just going by how easy I can dominate with the stealth mechanics.

Agreed. Unfortunately, most thieves rely on permastealth easy mode, and the abuse of this mechanic is keeping the thief class back. Anet can’t even think about fixing other thief issues with most of the player base screaming about the unfairness of on demand perma stealth. It’s incredibly broken and annoying, yet Anet wants to stick to doing stealth differently than other games.

I’d like my class to have better cc, aoes and condition removal, but with easy mode stealth, those are out of the question.

Am i the only one who noticed that OP suggests adding revealed debuff after backstab (only the one that follows BP+HS combo though for some reason) ? That would be so wrong and broken in so many ways !!! No, just no!
Sarcasm off now. Dear Op that is curent mechanics that we have. Everytime you couse direct damage with ANY of your skills you get revealed for 3s in pve/www and 4s in pvp mode. Oh and any stealth has reveal once you attack out of it. At least thats how mesmer stealt affects other classes ( )

Jitters.9401:

I respect your thoughts. I’m just going by how easy I can dominate with the stealth mechanics.

Thieves tend to dominate group builds, up levels and less than stellar players. Bring that thief up against a quality roamer and the story will likely change quite a bit.

Thieves have massive downsides that are very exploitable. The biggest being the almost complete lack of stability. They also do not handle condi spikes well and they have little control. Once they pop SS, a thief is vulnerable to all sorts of counters. Even on a thief I pressure them into SS, then drop Tripwire. That is an almost instant free kill. Drop it on their return for even more fun.

Straegen.2938:

Jitters.9401:

I respect your thoughts. I’m just going by how easy I can dominate with the stealth mechanics.

Thieves tend to dominate group builds, up levels and less than stellar players. Bring that thief up against a quality roamer and the story will likely change quite a bit.

Thieves have massive downsides that are very exploitable. The biggest being the almost complete lack of stability. They also do not handle condi spikes well and they have little control. Once they pop SS, a thief is vulnerable to all sorts of counters. Even on a thief I pressure them into SS, then drop Tripwire. That is an almost instant free kill. Drop it on their return for even more fun.

Lol from tripwire idea! And the biggest laugh that no thief would expect other thief to drop tripwire on him

Blocks and maybe even evaded attacks should pop revealed. Thieves and mesmers (I play stealth mesmer) need to be penalized for poor play when in stealth. Thieves can continue to attack while in stealth even if the person their fighting is blocking them using scepter block, or gear shield etc. No matter what, attacking should drop you out of stealth.

Handin.4032:

Blocks and maybe even evaded attacks should pop revealed. Thieves and mesmers (I play stealth mesmer) need to be penalized for poor play when in stealth. Thieves can continue to attack while in stealth even if the person their fighting is blocking them using scepter block, or gear shield etc. No matter what, attacking should drop you out of stealth.

Blocked and evaded attacks should never break stealth. That would move thieves to a class so weak they may as well go into wvw as a lvl 1 with lvl 1 traits and lvl 1 gear and only auto attack as an ability.

Just put reveal on black powder stealth and that would help level the playing field.

LV80 Mesmer with 3.5k hours. Thieves that use minimal stealth have been way harder and way more fun to fight against. I do not have a thief that I play (liked Mesmer too much), so could not say if they do or do not need a stealth nerf.

Mesmer PU traited is a problem. A second added to invis along with 300 toughness from that trait line while your clones do the damage is too much.

Jitters.9401:

First off..
1) I have both at 80 and geared for WvW. I’ve played both from Zerk spec to Condition Spec. The Thief is my favorite though. I play it with only shadow refuge and hide in shadows as my stealth. I REFUSE to play the extremely cheap way.

2) There are certain ways of playing them which is by far overpowered against any class. There needs to be a balance and fairness across the board.

3) The over powered/stupid way uses no skill but, in most cases macros and therefore no fun. It is easy to see who macros in abilities so one key press does multiple actions. Fixing the stealth issues will stop a lot of this.

4) The blackpowder/heartseeker stealth means the thief can have near permanent regeneration going on during combat. “Shadow Protector” gives base 1738 health over 10 seconds. Shadow Rejuv heals you each second you are in stealth. I get around 500 health per tick for the two combined. 12 seconds of invis due to shadow refuge alone will get me about 6000 health. Add in the HS stealth and that is another 2000 health in 4 seconds. who cares about heal debuffs when stealth can be applied at will until all damage is negated.

Want to fix stealth for thief? Put a reveal on the stealth which comes from blackpowder/heartseeker. 4 seconds which means right after the backstab they cannot restealth and just keep regening health non stop like so many do. Makes it fair for those classes who cannot stealth and heal up when ever they feel like it.

Want to fix stealth for Mesmer? Give their stealth a reveal. On my thief I use 2 and only two stealths, which are abilities and have reveal. On my mesmer I have 3 different stealth abilities and no reveal. With all the dodging and clones I have the stealth just makes me impossible to kill unless I get jumped by three or more enemies.

So.. Like I said. These are the two classes I play for WvW and I find them both far too powerful when using the stealth mechanics the abusive way. My fix is what I would like to see for the classes in order to make them wvw on par with other classes. But for now… my choice is to play them the non ridiculous way.

erm ther is a reveal on mes. at all time. plus our stealth is on long cd we just time it right. plus i play pu power build and it is not skilless at all. a pu mes needs to be played well in order to be effective. i kill pu mes all the time as they are terrible and just try to play a new popular build.
you are complaining in wvw about a 1v1 situation. well pu is almost the only way to survive in a zerg as a mes atm. yes mes is super strong in 1v1 and if u want it nerfed, fine by me , as i finally can get a buff for large groupfights and zergs for my mes. mes has to spec 30 into a defensive trait for pu which 1 sec more stealth and buffs. and none of those buffs are stability which is what kills pu mes anyways. cc and condis will still destroy mes.

Karolis.4261:

Am i the only one who noticed that OP suggests adding revealed debuff after backstab (only the one that follows BP+HS combo though for some reason) ? That would be so wrong and broken in so many ways !!! No, just no!
Sarcasm off now. Dear Op that is curent mechanics that we have. Everytime you couse direct damage with ANY of your skills you get revealed for 3s in pve/www and 4s in pvp mode. Oh and any stealth has reveal once you attack out of it. At least thats how mesmer stealt affects other classes ( )

Maybe there is a bug in the system. I’ve backstabbed someone and gone straight into black powder and heart seeker stealth without being visible for 4 seconds, but That will be something the dev’s need to figure out.

There is a silver general I’ve reported from maguuma who rarely has any reveal. maybe once in every 6 attacks out of stealth he does not instantly stealth again.

Jitters.9401:

Karolis.4261:

Am i the only one who noticed that OP suggests adding revealed debuff after backstab (only the one that follows BP+HS combo though for some reason) ? That would be so wrong and broken in so many ways !!! No, just no!
Sarcasm off now. Dear Op that is curent mechanics that we have. Everytime you couse direct damage with ANY of your skills you get revealed for 3s in pve/www and 4s in pvp mode. Oh and any stealth has reveal once you attack out of it. At least thats how mesmer stealt affects other classes ( )

Maybe there is a bug in the system. I’ve backstabbed someone and gone straight into black powder and heart seeker stealth without being visible for 4 seconds, but That will be something the dev’s need to figure out.

There is a silver general I’ve reported from maguuma who rarely has any reveal. maybe once in every 6 attacks out of stealth he does not instantly stealth again.

I play Thief for over a year now and never witnessed such bug as no revealed after attack in my gameplay. Person who skips the revealed part of rotation is a cheater. If you skip revealed part of rotation and stealth instantly following backstab you are a cheater my friend. So i highly suggest you watching that youtube video showing how Bp+Hs+Bs combo works and trying it again and again untill u actually realise how it works.

Jitters.9401:

Handin.4032:

Blocks and maybe even evaded attacks should pop revealed. Thieves and mesmers (I play stealth mesmer) need to be penalized for poor play when in stealth. Thieves can continue to attack while in stealth even if the person their fighting is blocking them using scepter block, or gear shield etc. No matter what, attacking should drop you out of stealth.

Blocked and evaded attacks should never break stealth. That would move thieves to a class so weak they may as well go into wvw as a lvl 1 with lvl 1 traits and lvl 1 gear and only auto attack as an ability.

Just put reveal on black powder stealth and that would help level the playing field.

No, fix stealth and make it so at least block breaks stealth, OR removes time from stealth (1 hit halves the remaining duration, 2 blocked hits halves it again, etc). SOME form of penalty for doing poor play and SPAMMING attacks in stealth while a person is doing a block so you get the last hit the moment it comes off. So, FIX stealth. Then at the same time BALANCE the thief accordingly. There are people on these forums who play thief who I think believe that just because they nerf something doesn’t mean they won’t add something to balance. FIX the mechanic that is broken, and BALANCE the class that is currently only “balanced” because they take advantage of a broken mechanic. It was done with confusion with mesmers, and we’re still OK. It was done with portals, and we’re still OK. They buffed other aspects to compensate.

I am not saying they should break thief. But to honestly say a broken mechanic should stay broken because one class is using it a lot to balance themselves is utterly ridiculous. By that logic they should reverse the confusion update and many many others. If they fix stealth, they will NEED to fix thief.

Karolis.4261:

Lol from tripwire idea! And the biggest laugh that no thief would expect other thief to drop tripwire on him

The trap is of limited usefulness in many cases but a 3s knockdown is powerful especially when you know your target is out of breakers. It is pretty much a guaranteed CnD/BS and at least one HS usually two or three. Sometimes I can even squeeze off another CnD. Even if they are stealthed, the box on the ground goes away so you know where they are.

Far less gimmicky than scorpion wire and far more dangerous when it lands.

Karolis.4261:

Jitters.9401:

Karolis.4261:

Am i the only one who noticed that OP suggests adding revealed debuff after backstab (only the one that follows BP+HS combo though for some reason) ? That would be so wrong and broken in so many ways !!! No, just no!
Sarcasm off now. Dear Op that is curent mechanics that we have. Everytime you couse direct damage with ANY of your skills you get revealed for 3s in pve/www and 4s in pvp mode. Oh and any stealth has reveal once you attack out of it. At least thats how mesmer stealt affects other classes ( )

Maybe there is a bug in the system. I’ve backstabbed someone and gone straight into black powder and heart seeker stealth without being visible for 4 seconds, but That will be something the dev’s need to figure out.

There is a silver general I’ve reported from maguuma who rarely has any reveal. maybe once in every 6 attacks out of stealth he does not instantly stealth again.

I play Thief for over a year now and never witnessed such bug as no revealed after attack in my gameplay. Person who skips the revealed part of rotation is a cheater. If you skip revealed part of rotation and stealth instantly following backstab you are a cheater my friend. So i highly suggest you watching that youtube video showing how Bp+Hs+Bs combo works and trying it again and again untill u actually realise how it works.

Really? Lack any understanding of the written english language? I guess Just because “YOU” know everything there is about the game anything anyone else sees is suspicious? Might want to grow up a little and talk like an adult instead of accuse.

But, If you have reading issues I can record what I said in my first post and let you hear it… though technically i did spell it out for you.

Short Form…. I refuse to play stealth thief. I have seen my thief go right into stealth from a backstab not because that was my plan, but it happened. I’ve even been reporting, including screen shots, of thieves who have no reveal. I refuse to cheat hence how I play.

I use two stealth skills only. Shadow refuge and Hide in Shadows.

So then child… do you understand this? When you be an adult you can come back to this posting.

While we’re at it could we give Rangers some way to be useful in zergs? =3
I hate the fact that I had to level a necro just to run with the guild and be somewhat useful.

~ Kovu

Lol thief are mid to weak class they are so easy to kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPbG1TCNxVY

Jitters.9401:

Karolis.4261:

Jitters.9401:

Karolis.4261:

Am i the only one who noticed that OP suggests adding revealed debuff after backstab (only the one that follows BP+HS combo though for some reason) ? That would be so wrong and broken in so many ways !!! No, just no!
Sarcasm off now. Dear Op that is curent mechanics that we have. Everytime you couse direct damage with ANY of your skills you get revealed for 3s in pve/www and 4s in pvp mode. Oh and any stealth has reveal once you attack out of it. At least thats how mesmer stealt affects other classes ( )

Maybe there is a bug in the system. I’ve backstabbed someone and gone straight into black powder and heart seeker stealth without being visible for 4 seconds, but That will be something the dev’s need to figure out.

There is a silver general I’ve reported from maguuma who rarely has any reveal. maybe once in every 6 attacks out of stealth he does not instantly stealth again.

I play Thief for over a year now and never witnessed such bug as no revealed after attack in my gameplay. Person who skips the revealed part of rotation is a cheater. If you skip revealed part of rotation and stealth instantly following backstab you are a cheater my friend. So i highly suggest you watching that youtube video showing how Bp+Hs+Bs combo works and trying it again and again untill u actually realise how it works.

Really? Lack any understanding of the written english language? I guess Just because “YOU” know everything there is about the game anything anyone else sees is suspicious? Might want to grow up a little and talk like an adult instead of accuse.

But, If you have reading issues I can record what I said in my first post and let you hear it… though technically i did spell it out for you.

Short Form…. I refuse to play stealth thief. I have seen my thief go right into stealth from a backstab not because that was my plan, but it happened. I’ve even been reporting, including screen shots, of thieves who have no reveal. I refuse to cheat hence how I play.

I use two stealth skills only. Shadow refuge and Hide in Shadows.

So then child… do you understand this? When you be an adult you can come back to this posting.

You should chill the kitten down and stop pulling age card, cause i bet im older then you. Telling that u are elitist that refuse to use stealth gameplay because of some weird reason and then stating that you have somehow accidentally managed to bypass revealed just begs for trolling and trolling is what provokes you, thank you very much. Cant understand the difference between someone making fun of your proofless claims or seriously calling you a cheater ?

vincecontix.1264:

Lol thief are mid to weak class they are so easy to kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPbG1TCNxVY

Nerf Thief ! Warrior had to waste almost 2 minutes of his game time to kill it !

Jitters, what rank are you in pvp? Just out of curiosity.

Brb, rolling class XY, buying tomes to powerlv to 80, spend 20g on armor…hey guys i have class XY, i think it is OP. Nerf plz.

As far as OP goes, i think warriors, necros and engis are riding the OP wave atm, thieves are mediocre at best and are only good at killing noobs.

Jitters.9401:

Want to fix stealth for Mesmer? Give their stealth a reveal. On my thief I use 2 and only two stealths, which are abilities and have reveal. On my mesmer I have 3 different stealth abilities and no reveal. With all the dodging and clones I have the stealth just makes me impossible to kill unless I get jumped by three or more enemies.

The only skill that allows Mesmers to stealth when revealed is Decoy (intended). Every other stealth skill will give the Mesmer the revealed debuff if you attack from stealth. If you’re not getting revealed when using stealth as a Mesmer it’s probably because you’re using it almost completely defensively, whereas for a Thief you’re going to want to utilise stealth attacks and will therefore get Revealed more often.

Only 2 changes really need to happen for Mesmer stealth in particular:

1) Remove protection from Prismatic Understanding

2) Summoning a phantasm from stealth applies the Revealed debuff.

However, there’s really no point rebalancing stealth in this game until Anet address the far more pressing issue of condition spam.

Jitters.9401:

There are certain ways of playing them which is by far overpowered against any class. There needs to be a balance and fairness across the board.

Eng >>>>> Thief.

Thief isn’t the best 1v1 class… it’s not the best small group or large group class. They are the best scout/yak slap/door tap class.

Thief is very strong vs inexperienced players (the majority of WvWers) and is easy to use. However along with the low skill floor it has a low skill ceiling. Other classes get better once the mutual skill levels rise.

You can stop a thief from stealthing in the first place (and wreck their ini in the process) other than with the blinding powder utility. Why should it reveal on block as well? That’s silly. You had your chance and you weren’t able to use it. That’s your bad. That in no way warrants you to such an easy 2nd chance to counter them.

Sanduskel.1850:

permastealth easy mode

Whats that? Please explain.

Handin.4032:

Jitters.9401:

Handin.4032:

Blocks and maybe even evaded attacks should pop revealed. Thieves and mesmers (I play stealth mesmer) need to be penalized for poor play when in stealth. Thieves can continue to attack while in stealth even if the person their fighting is blocking them using scepter block, or gear shield etc. No matter what, attacking should drop you out of stealth.

Blocked and evaded attacks should never break stealth. That would move thieves to a class so weak they may as well go into wvw as a lvl 1 with lvl 1 traits and lvl 1 gear and only auto attack as an ability.

Just put reveal on black powder stealth and that would help level the playing field.

No, fix stealth and make it so at least block breaks stealth, OR removes time from stealth (1 hit halves the remaining duration, 2 blocked hits halves it again, etc). SOME form of penalty for doing poor play and SPAMMING attacks in stealth while a person is doing a block so you get the last hit the moment it comes off. So, FIX stealth. Then at the same time BALANCE the thief accordingly. There are people on these forums who play thief who I think believe that just because they nerf something doesn’t mean they won’t add something to balance. FIX the mechanic that is broken, and BALANCE the class that is currently only “balanced” because they take advantage of a broken mechanic. It was done with confusion with mesmers, and we’re still OK. It was done with portals, and we’re still OK. They buffed other aspects to compensate.

I am not saying they should break thief. But to honestly say a broken mechanic should stay broken because one class is using it a lot to balance themselves is utterly ridiculous. By that logic they should reverse the confusion update and many many others. If they fix stealth, they will NEED to fix thief.

AAAAAAAnd you end up with a melee ranger.