Thief overpowered? Then why....

Thief overpowered? Then why....

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Posted by: a t s e.9614

a t s e.9614

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

So the logic is to nerf a class that is good at only fulfilling 1 role> high burst roamer ( single target) . Look I main a warrior and I can tell you thief is not OP. They are just incredibly good at one thing but thats the only thing they are able to do.

Guardian has the absolute best support in the game . Dosent mean it needs a nerf

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Thief class is annoying? Yes. Its frustrating? Yes Its spammy? Yes Is it OP? No

So thats basicly it. The class is so broken then why only few people play it? If something was ridiculously OP we would see 5 thief vs 5 thief in solo Q and zergs of thieves in wvw and dungeons asking for thieves only thats my point.

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Posted by: Turtle.4130

Turtle.4130

Ooh! I love this game!

If Warriors are OP, then why do the losing competitive teams always have them?

Hint: They cheese garbage players at this game.

On topic:
- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

1. Thieves are strong roamers, nobody talks about their blob power. As long as engies are not involved and both players are maximized in their profession efficiency, thief dominates.

2. Like a roamer, they are strong in small numbers, too much thieves is never good unless you want to cheese bad players. Hint hint, top tier PvP teams won’t do anything but laugh at your garbage Hambow build.

3. Engineer is the hidden most faceroll class in this game, memorize your toolbelt, voila, go 1v4 for fun (Source: I 1v2’d Maguuma Veteran and Bronze Raider on my 5th time roaming, it’s hilarious how easily engineer can outplay with it’s godkitten overloaded skillset). Bad players who get cheesed by stunlock OP 420noscope warriors still believe warrior is the most OP.

4. Heavies don’t die easily in dungeons, nobody cares about thieves regarding dungeons, they’re fine.

(edited by Turtle.4130)

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

I am curious where you get the statistics to make your assumptions a t s e. Most roamers are engineers? What server is that on? I know on Maguuma, SoR, JQ, TC, and BG, I almost exclusively see thieves, with the rare engineer. I list those servers specifically, simply because one of them is the one I am on, and the others are the ones I have battled against lately.

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Posted by: Turtle.4130

Turtle.4130

I am curious where you get the statistics to make your assumptions a t s e. Most roamers are engineers? What server is that on? I know on Maguuma, SoR, JQ, TC, and BG, I almost exclusively see thieves, with the rare engineer. I list those servers specifically, simply because one of them is the one I am on, and the others are the ones I have battled against lately.

Any player who wants to win any roaming fight right now should roll Engineer, why?
Condi meta? Check
Good 1v1? Check
Good 1vX? Check
Good AoE? Check
Good survivability? Check

Bam, you got your golden profession.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

Probably because war/guard is best at zerging and thieves are best at taking out single targets.

Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta

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Posted by: Forzani.2584

Forzani.2584

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

So the logic is to nerf a class that is good at only fulfilling 1 role> high burst roamer ( single target) . Look I main a warrior and I can tell you thief is not OP. They are just incredibly good at one thing but thats the only thing they are able to do.

Guardian has the absolute best support in the game . Dosent mean it needs a nerf

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Thief class is annoying? Yes. Its frustrating? Yes Its spammy? Yes Is it OP? No

So thats basicly it. The class is so broken then why only few people play it? If something was ridiculously OP we would see 5 thief vs 5 thief in solo Q and zergs of thieves in wvw and dungeons asking for thieves only thats my point.

Won’t even comment about whether a thief is over powered or not. You have acknowledged though what many people say. It’s not fun fighting thieves. Win or lose.

Games are supposed to be fun…enjoyable. It should have no place for an “annoying, frustrating, spammy class”.

When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.

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Posted by: Splatter Paw.7238

Splatter Paw.7238

I’m actually starting to see allot more engis roaming I play on SoS, and for the reasons op stated. I even made one I’m levling specifically to roam myself.

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Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

Probably because war/guard is best at zerging and thieves are best at taking out single targets.

Nope, that single target usually will come to the forums as soon as they can because they don’t want thieves to do even that

Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

So the logic is to nerf a class that is good at only fulfilling 1 role> high burst roamer ( single target) . Look I main a warrior and I can tell you thief is not OP. They are just incredibly good at one thing but thats the only thing they are able to do.

Guardian has the absolute best support in the game . Dosent mean it needs a nerf

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Thief class is annoying? Yes. Its frustrating? Yes Its spammy? Yes Is it OP? No

So thats basicly it. The class is so broken then why only few people play it? If something was ridiculously OP we would see 5 thief vs 5 thief in solo Q and zergs of thieves in wvw and dungeons asking for thieves only thats my point.

Won’t even comment about whether a thief is over powered or not. You have acknowledged though what many people say. It’s not fun fighting thieves. Win or lose.

Games are supposed to be fun…enjoyable. It should have no place for an “annoying, frustrating, spammy class”.

Can you make the game fun and enjoyable for the thief as well if they want to not do one role(roaming)…? If you can do that then sure, nerf it thereafter however you want in terms of it’s 1v1/roaming/dueling… I get where you’re coming from but right now playing a thief in a zerg is not fun, it’s annoying and frustrating being melted like helium.
If you’re planning to tell me to re-roll if I want zerg, I have. So if that was your suggestion, I suggest you re-roll a thief if you want to duel (or get your said cheese).

That’s really my frustration, getting nerfs, then being targeted for more nerfs… while having to switch to my gaurd/warrior when I want to zerg (WvW, though warriors and guards have better uses in the dungeon too).

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

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Posted by: Forzani.2584

Forzani.2584

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

So the logic is to nerf a class that is good at only fulfilling 1 role> high burst roamer ( single target) . Look I main a warrior and I can tell you thief is not OP. They are just incredibly good at one thing but thats the only thing they are able to do.

Guardian has the absolute best support in the game . Dosent mean it needs a nerf

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Thief class is annoying? Yes. Its frustrating? Yes Its spammy? Yes Is it OP? No

So thats basicly it. The class is so broken then why only few people play it? If something was ridiculously OP we would see 5 thief vs 5 thief in solo Q and zergs of thieves in wvw and dungeons asking for thieves only thats my point.

Won’t even comment about whether a thief is over powered or not. You have acknowledged though what many people say. It’s not fun fighting thieves. Win or lose.

Games are supposed to be fun…enjoyable. It should have no place for an “annoying, frustrating, spammy class”.

Can you make the game fun and enjoyable for the thief as well if they want to not do one role(roaming)…? If you can do that then sure, nerf it thereafter however you want in terms of it’s 1v1/roaming/dueling… I get where you’re coming from but right now playing a thief in a zerg is not fun, it’s annoying and frustrating being melted like helium.
If you’re planning to tell me to re-roll if I want zerg, I have. So if that was your suggestion, I suggest you re-roll a thief if you want to duel (or get your said cheese).

That’s really my frustration, getting nerfs, then being targeted for more nerfs… while having to switch to my gaurd/warrior when I want to zerg (WvW, though warriors and guards have better uses in the dungeon too).

Hey, you play the cards you are dealt. I don’t hate the player(other than the ones that blindly defend the class ….which is something you aren’t doing). Why wouldn’t you take advantage of something Anet gives you. I really don’t know the solution…or even if there is a solution.

All I know is I, and many others, think it’s a poor implementation of stealth. Last night I was roaming and bumped into an Engineer. 20 seconds into the fight he stealthed….fought some more then stealthed again = annoying as kitten. When he stealthed a 3rd time I walked away from the fight. Same with PU mesmers. I won’t fight them. Running around in circles swinging my weapons and blindly casting any AOEs I have trying to hit an invisible foe isn’t fun.

I don’t hate Thieves….I hate anets lol “vision” of stealth.

When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

This thread is not toxic. The OP is asking players who complain about the profession why they believe so when behavior in most parts of the game says otherwise.

And I would like to know too, since after trying one out I am actually seeing more and more where thief players are coming from.

Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta

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Posted by: Kukchi.6173

Kukchi.6173

This thread is not toxic. The OP is asking players who complain about the profession why they believe so when behavior in most parts of the game says otherwise.

And I would like to know too, since after trying one out I am actually seeing more and more where thief players are coming from.

I play thief too and I do not see any validity in what most of these “thief” players are talking about . Thief has been unbalanced for a long time and needs a tone down.

80% of blobs are guardian and warrior? ROFL more like thief, necro, and mesmer.

Human thief lvl 80 pistol dagger pistol sword cheese extreme.
Anet fix thief plz its boring now :(

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Vanthian.9267

Vanthian.9267

Ooh! I love this game!

If Warriors are OP, then why do the losing competitive teams always have them?

Hint: They cheese garbage players at this game.

On topic:
- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

1. Thieves are strong roamers, nobody talks about their blob power. As long as engies are not involved and both players are maximized in their profession efficiency, thief dominates.

2. Like a roamer, they are strong in small numbers, too much thieves is never good unless you want to cheese bad players. Hint hint, top tier PvP teams won’t do anything but laugh at your garbage Hambow build.

3. Engineer is the hidden most faceroll class in this game, memorize your toolbelt, voila, go 1v4 for fun (Source: I 1v2’d Maguuma Veteran and Bronze Raider on my 5th time roaming, it’s hilarious how easily engineer can outplay with it’s godkitten overloaded skillset). Bad players who get cheesed by stunlock OP 420noscope warriors still believe warrior is the most OP.

4. Heavies don’t die easily in dungeons, nobody cares about thieves regarding dungeons, they’re fine.

Finally another person who understands shows up in the forums.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

This thread is not toxic. The OP is asking players who complain about the profession why they believe so when behavior in most parts of the game says otherwise.

And I would like to know too, since after trying one out I am actually seeing more and more where thief players are coming from.

I play thief too and I do not see any validity in what most of these “thief” players are talking about . Thief has been unbalanced for a long time and needs a tone down.

80% of blobs are guardian and warrior? ROFL more like thief, necro, and mesmer.

toxic thread needs to be closed.

Most of those thief players have played thief for a very long time and most of them are saying that almost everyone who complains don’t have enough information to make such rash accusations.

And again, no this is not a toxic thread. What is toxic are the people who are coming on here and derailing it with anti-thief comments. Seriously, how hard is it to answer a question constructively? Lol.

Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta

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Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

He summed it up by concluding annoying is not equal to OP

Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

Thieves are really, really punishing for newer players to deal with. Playing against them requires fast reflexes that new players haven’t trained yet; stealth is incredibly confusing when you don’t have the experience to predict where they’re going; and the whole glass + high burst set-up is built to punish the mistakes that new players make constantly.

Worse, it ends the fight quickly, so they don’t even get to feel like they had a fight or get to learn from their mistakes; they just kitten around and explode.

That does fall off pretty fast as people get better at the game, and thieves settle into a cleanup crew niche, which is realistically where they should be. They do still have some balance issues (mostly around very long duration stealth, in my mind), but they are pretty minor at higher levels of play; the overpowered toxicity is really limited to the cardboard division.

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

I never have problems killing thieves

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Posted by: Sandpit.3467

Sandpit.3467

Just get rid of the stealth mechanic and thieves will be fine. Worst game mechanic ever. In a straight fight it’s a two player game where only one player is allowed to play.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Thieves are really, really punishing for newer players to deal with. Playing against them requires fast reflexes that new players haven’t trained yet; stealth is incredibly confusing when you don’t have the experience to predict where they’re going; and the whole glass + high burst set-up is built to punish the mistakes that new players make constantly.

I’d go a step further and add “and players who don’t play much pvp” which would include all pve and blobbing in wvw because neither are a real test of your profession for dueling purposes.

Smaller scale fights like havoc squad vs havoc squad and s/tpvp yes, you have to rely on your profession knowledge to win. People who are planted and run back to the zerg get ganked by a thief, suddenly its the thieves fault for being spec’ed to snipe stragglers. People just aren’t interested in hearing that the reason they died is because they need to L2P. It can be insulting to hear that, but when those people blindly accuse another profession of being broken with 0 intentions of learning something then L2P earns its spot. Pretty sure thief is the only profession with enough nerf posts that someone has gone out of their way to collect them into 1 mega thread (and I salute them for their bravery).

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

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Posted by: simonerd.8672

simonerd.8672

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

So the logic is to nerf a class that is good at only fulfilling 1 role> high burst roamer ( single target) . Look I main a warrior and I can tell you thief is not OP. They are just incredibly good at one thing but thats the only thing they are able to do.

Guardian has the absolute best support in the game . Dosent mean it needs a nerf

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Thief class is annoying? Yes. Its frustrating? Yes Its spammy? Yes Is it OP? No

So thats basicly it. The class is so broken then why only few people play it? If something was ridiculously OP we would see 5 thief vs 5 thief in solo Q and zergs of thieves in wvw and dungeons asking for thieves only thats my point.

Won’t even comment about whether a thief is over powered or not. You have acknowledged though what many people say. It’s not fun fighting thieves. Win or lose.

Games are supposed to be fun…enjoyable. It should have no place for an “annoying, frustrating, spammy class”.

Shut up kid, thief is fun gameplay all should play the class that like, who are you for selecting a class in an mmo, thief is a class that evry mmo have.

For me necro is the annoing class of the game, but this don’t mean they should cancel it because i don’t like fight against annoing boring spammer condition in a point.

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

And seriously be honest, most of the times you get ganked by a thief its not even a true 1v1, he gets you while you are unaware of the situation. In actual 1v1 thief has many hard counters such as necro / engi and meditation guard.

Maybe it is my concept of common sense, but how is a necro, guardian, or engineer a counter for a thief? How is a profession as a default, a counter to another? That makes no sense what so ever. How is a warrior or mesmer getting a back stab, while unaware, from a thief out of stealth going to be more or less of a counter then if it was a necro or guardian???

I can only assume you mean a specific skill or action unique to those professions, but unless you state the specific build, and the actions with it, your making no logical argument in the least bit for your point.

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Posted by: Bombsaway.7198

Bombsaway.7198

Ok, I play a thief and an engineer. I find this post a bit . . . unusual.

The engineer is great roaming against thieves but in general a thief is a much better roamer. Stealth really is that good for roaming. . . and SHOULD be.

I roam with the engineer and find that all sorts of classes (generally not thieves) can put up a good fight. But the real problem is even with rocket boots, you can’t pick your fights like a thief can.

Thieves can do condi. Engines can do power. The balance between physical and condition damage is really not class specific.

Engies are the class that no one really played (so few played against) that simply is a bit unfamiliar right now versus really overpowered. An engineer can be thrown around like a wet noodle with almost no stability and as good as he gives conditions, he is better at eating yours. The hardest problem I have playing my other classes against an engineer is that there are very few tells going into a fight to help determine what type of engineer you are facing. You can’t just look at the weapons

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Posted by: Big Tower.5423

Big Tower.5423

Thief are left useless this patch, i personally lost 42% damage rendering my thief completly obsolete. Shelved my thief and rerolled engi.

7800 hours ingame, and counting.

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

Thieves don’t really excel at anything.

The reason they receive so much more hate is because of stealth, which makes them extremely hard to kill. If Thieves just died like any other class would in a similar situation people would be much less hateful towards them.

It’s just that ANet, in their limited wisdom, has created the single worst stealth mechanic in any MMO I have witnessed. Even MMOs with perma-stealth had more compelling counter-play to stealth.

But in GW2 you can spam stealth almost ad infinitum, as long as you’re in combat, while blinding and healing yourself in the process. Stealth doesn’t limit the Thief in any way, it has no opportunity cost. In fact the exact opposite is the case. Stealth enpowers the Thief so it’s always a good idea to use it.

Stealth in GW2 is a great example of poor game design and the fact that it remains unchanged, even 2 years into the game, shows that ANet don’t really have anyone who really grasps this type of problem.

(edited by Dee Jay.2460)

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

Thieves don’t really excel at anything.

The reason they receive so much more hate is because of stealth, which makes them extremely hard to kill. If Thieves just died like any other class would in a similar situation people would be much less hateful towards them.

It’s just that ANet, in their limited wisdom, has created the single worst stealth mechanic in any MMO I have witnessed. Even MMOs with perma-stealth had more compelling counter-play to stealth.

But in GW2 you can spam stealth almost ad infinitum, as long as you’re in combat, while blinding and healing yourself in the process. Stealth doesn’t limit the Thief in any way, it has no opportunity cost. In fact the exact opposite is the case. Stealth enpowers the Thief so it’s always a good idea to use it.

Stealth in GW2 is a great example of poor game design and the fact that it remains unchanged, even 2 years into the game, shows that ANet don’t really have anyone who really grasps this type of problem.

Can you please compile a list of combat functionalities that have this “opportunity cost”?

The only one’s I’ve seen from what I think you are talking about are the frenzy utility skills.

It seems to be that 99% of combat mechanics empower every profession.

The best way to tell if a class is OP, is to see if it is clearly the best option in the most frequently occurring scenarios. I won’t touch on WvW or PvE, but thief isn’t the best option in most scenarios, no profession is, which means ANet has done at least a decent job at making most professions viable.

Something thief does excel at, is creating numbers advantages, because of it’s ability to disengage and it’s mobility.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: Eloquence.5207

Eloquence.5207

Thief are left useless this patch, i personally lost 42% damage rendering my thief completly obsolete. Shelved my thief and rerolled engi.

A cheeser stays a cheeser. Good job!

“L2P” according to pr0 Thieves
http://youtu.be/k0YDuSLXcX8?t=3m16s
See, Blinding Powder is nothing.

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Posted by: Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

If the thief is so overpowered then why:

- wvw blobs are 80% war/guard
- top pvp teams only use 1 thief
- most roamers rerolled to engineer ( better 1vXcapability)
- lfg post says heavy only

PvE and WvW zerging (which is effectively PvE) do not accurately represent sPvP or small-number encounters in WvW. Majority Guardian/Warrior zerg blobs function because they bathe in stability and retaliation because those mechanics are overpowered in their own right. This makes groups of players temporarily immortal and capable of wrecking other large groups of players by simply running around and pressing buttons (not unlike how players net kills in rest of the game).

TPvP teams run 1 Thief because it’s all you need to automatically kill any other roamer in the entire game that isn’t a Thief. It also serves as a relative counter to another Thief because Thief vs Thief is an obnoxious dance of stealth, blinds and teleports that nobody can properly interpret and can last for a long time somewhere off-point effectively doing nothing but reducing the game to a 4v4 for some time. The Thief also moves across the map in record time. Furthermore, condition cancer is more effective at murdering bunkers, so that’s why we don’t often see multiple Thieves on a team.

Don’t try to defend one overpowered mechanic by saying that “But this is also really popular/overpowered too!” Engineer roamers are good because condition cancer is good. This has nothing to do with whether or not Thief is broken.

If your lfg posts say “heavy only,” then your dungeon/fractal community is pretty bad at the game or they already have an elementalist in their party. As said before, PvE is a different (even more brain-dead) game than PvP.

Thief is overpowered because it serves a role that doesn’t need to exist in a game without a dedicated healer or damage-mitigation class. GW2 wasn’t built for pure classes. An argument could be made that pure classes are a burden on any MMO altogether. In any case, Thief outright shouldn’t be in GW2 because it breaks a lot of common rules that go into balancing combat.

You’re welcome.

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Posted by: Mek.2947

Mek.2947

It’s the stealth mechanic people hate, and thieves have the most access to it. I don’t know a solution because with it they annoy the everliving F———- k out of everyone. Without it they would be completely broken and a free kill.

I liked the way Warhammer Online handled the stealth mechanic. ONE class on each faction had access to it, and it’s only purpose was so that the Witch Hunter or Witch Elf could get behind enemy lines to take someone out. It was never intended as a reset over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over mechanic.

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Posted by: Jelzouki.4128

Jelzouki.4128

I agree with this post completely.

http://strawpoll.me/3648686/r Queue for PvP from any map. Vote Here. Zojoel [ASAP Zerg]

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Is it okay that the first thing I did after reading the title was mentally change it to, “If thief overpowered, then how me, a dog, learn English?”

More on-topic, I think the OP doesn’t quite understand how overpowered works (whether or not thief is overpowered I won’t comment).
Something being overpowered does not mean it excels overwhelmingly at every area of the game to the point that it pushes all other professions out, though that would certainly be overpowered. I don’t think there is a single mainstream game out right now where that is the case, because for that to happen the developers would have to be very stupid indeed. Generally, when someone says something is overpowered, they mean that it is too good at what it is supposed to do.
For example, lets say the developers were to give warriors infinite invulnerability to conditions as part of one of their five point minor traits in their most-used line, with no conditions on its use. You would be hard-pressed to say that wouldn’t be overpowered, but it wouldn’t displace anyone from PvE, and it wouldn’t change WvW all that much. The place where it would really hurt would be PvP, but even there other classes would still be viable and 5-warrior teams still wouldn’t be the best.

For a less extreme example, look at league of legends or any other MOBA. Each champ is specialized into a single area, and overbuffing any one of them would almost never mean pushing other roles out.

As Swagg indicated, people run one thief because once you have your thief, that role is filled. It has no bearing on whether the thief is too good at that role.

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Posted by: a t s e.9614

a t s e.9614

Overpowered classes/ builds can stack . Before nerfs people were running triple hambow like 4 months ago.

And stacking thieves was never effective . Thief haters are either incredibly bad or don’t understand how this game works.

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Overpowered classes/ builds can stack . Before nerfs people were running triple hambow like 4 months ago.

And stacking thieves was never effective . Thief haters are either incredibly bad or don’t understand how this game works.

Yes, because however overpowered a bursty roamer may be it will most likely never make a good support or bunker, both of which are necessary. It doesn’t necessarily follow that thief is not overpowered, just like how thieves being able to one-shot squishies doesn’t necessarily imply that it is.

What you’re basically doing here in your argument is saying that if something is not at an extreme then it isn’t true, which is a somewhat silly premise that I take issue with. I’m not saying that thieves are overpowered, I’m not saying they aren’t; I’m saying that your argument is flawed and needs reexamination.

To top it off, your final statement in your last post is an ad hominem argument, characterized by switching the focus of a counterargument to the character of the person arguing and effectively ignoring the argument itself. Ex: Everyone who supports a minimum wage is a communist, communism is bad, therefore we should not have a minimum wage.
In fact, the initial statement in the above example could be true, and it wouldn’t necessarily imply that a minimum wage is bad.

I beg of you, refrain from argumentative fallacies. While they may be somewhat easier than reasoned debate, they do not, in the long run, help your cause.

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Posted by: Swimsasa Stoon.8936

Swimsasa Stoon.8936

If there are thieves in the pvp match half or all of my deaths will be due to a thief.

Why? Well that’s because I main elementalist and thieves are a hard counter to elementalist. When I pvp with my necro I can easily kill any and all thief that comes my way in mere seconds. High armor so the 6k backstabs only amount to 1/5th of my total hp (including death shroud). But as an elementalist with light armor its 8-12k backstabs killing me instantly or allowing some room for me to get killed by the auto attack.

I just think that backstab and only backstab needs a slight nerf. For the rest the thief is fine or might even need a buff.

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Posted by: Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

Swagg, " Thief is overpowered because it serves a role that doesn’t need to exist in a game without a dedicated healer or damage-mitigation class. GW2 wasn’t built for pure classes. An argument could be made that pure classes are a burden on any MMO altogether. In any case, Thief outright shouldn’t be in GW2 because it breaks a lot of common rules that go into balancing combat.

Very well said.

Even these mmo’s in the market: Wow, Rift, A.A, Tera, P.W, B.S, R.O.M, A.C, D.C.U.O, L.O.R., FF14, including furure mmo’s: Bless, Titan, Black Desert, E.Q, L.O etc…..

Do Not violate balance and common rules for Balance.

except this one,

Guild Wars 2

How does Guild Wars 2 stand a chance against them?

They all know the consequence of not abiding by the balance rules and common rules.

They all know the consequence of ignoring the community main concerns.

Why us Guild Wars 2 choosing the path of self-destruction?

Advocate of Justice, Liberty and Truth

(edited by Burnfall.9573)

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Posted by: Bowflex.4502

Bowflex.4502

If there are thieves in the pvp match half or all of my deaths will be due to a thief.

Why? Well that’s because I main elementalist and thieves are a hard counter to elementalist. When I pvp with my necro I can easily kill any and all thief that comes my way in mere seconds. High armor so the 6k backstabs only amount to 1/5th of my total hp (including death shroud). But as an elementalist with light armor its 8-12k backstabs killing me instantly or allowing some room for me to get killed by the auto attack.

I just think that backstab and only backstab needs a slight nerf. For the rest the thief is fine or might even need a buff.

You can easily kill any and all thieves on your necro due to your higher health pool. By that logic so can all other classes besides your elementalist. And you want backstabbing nerfed so your one class can beat them easily? Thereby kittening thieves even worse on your necro?

Yeah, that makes sense,

Wouldn’t it be awesome if you had a trait that allowed you to switch to earth attainment and not be critically hit, thereby completely destroying the hidden kller talent a thief relies on for backstabbing damage? …oh wait

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

Before the april patch, thief was definitely OP.
Those PW thieves were roaming around melting HP bars and stunlocking with two button press while disengaging at will.

Now I don’t know how it plays after the patch and if the 1 extra initiative cost on PW makes a real difference, but that nerf was much needed.

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Posted by: a t s e.9614

a t s e.9614

Go back to WoW if you need a healer to survive.

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Posted by: Viking Jorun.5413

Viking Jorun.5413

Thieves have no counterplay? I beg to differ!

2m44s for Ranger v. Thief (the fight is less than 30 seconds, and he’s running half of it).

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Posted by: Gwaymor.4835

Gwaymor.4835

Advice:
1. Make more money Rl.
2. Make even more money RL.
3. Buy your own development company.
4. Order you own game.
5. Put this list as an answer to every game-play thread there is:).

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

Before the april patch, thief was definitely OP.
Those PW thieves were roaming around melting HP bars and stunlocking with two button press while disengaging at will.

Now I don’t know how it plays after the patch and if the 1 extra initiative cost on PW makes a real difference, but that nerf was much needed.

Well i was fighting 2 theives and 1 guardian the guardian left when was around 80% hp and i killed both theives toke the orb and scored in spirit watch on my necro.
Guess that answer you’re question. Yes it was solo it was 2 days ago.

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

Before the april patch, thief was definitely OP.
Those PW thieves were roaming around melting HP bars and stunlocking with two button press while disengaging at will.

Now I don’t know how it plays after the patch and if the 1 extra initiative cost on PW makes a real difference, but that nerf was much needed.

Well i was fighting 2 theives and 1 guardian the guardian left when was around 80% hp and i killed both theives toke the orb and scored in spirit watch on my necro.
Guess that answer you’re question. Yes it was solo it was 2 days ago.

I meant when played by competent players. I thought it was obvious.

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Posted by: Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

Why Guild Wars 2 are choosing the path of self-destruction?

Why?

Because the developers at ANet have absolutely no idea what they are doing and tried to attract the WoW crowd with their game. For real, “Let’s try to compete with/kill WoW, guys!” When has that never killed a game? Ever?? ANet is just incompetent. They don’t know how to design a good game. If they did, the Thief would have never made it into GW2. Plenty of other things would have changed as well, but the Thief’s absence would rank as one of the more noticeable differences between this game and Bizarro GW2.

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Posted by: NeroBoron.7285

NeroBoron.7285

I’m fine with the damage in my opinion the problem is that backstab hasn’t a cd. The thief goes invis again (like nearly the hole fight )and can use another backstab. And the most annoying thing: you block or dodge his attack from invis and he doesn’t get revealed. So he can just try again and again and again.

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Posted by: Vlad.1739

Vlad.1739

Somehow feel this thread was made to be inflammatory but, thief is not overpowered in structured pvp thief has a role to fulfill. Thief is only really good at one thing and that is its role. That is why you do not see 5 thieves in one team. In WvW thief is overpowered. there is no point to hold while roaming, in a straight fight thief is very strong when played right. You can not lose on equal skill. Mechanics will not get fixed by nature it is broken.

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Posted by: Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

Somehow feel this thread was made to be inflammatory but, thief is not overpowered in structured pvp thief has a role to fulfill. Thief is only really good at one thing and that is its role.

Yes, and that role doesn’t exist in GW2. That’s why it’s overpowered.

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Posted by: CodenameZeus.3945

CodenameZeus.3945

Funny… 1/3 of the players say that thief is OP.
The other 1/3 say that thieves are the most useless class ever and they are outplayed by anything.
The last 1/3 are engineers.

Anyways, i play as a thief myself. Thieves are pretty powerful, and can reset fights easily, but we’re really weak to conditions and heavy CC (talking to you, kitten hammer warriors..)

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

Somehow feel this thread was made to be inflammatory but, thief is not overpowered in structured pvp thief has a role to fulfill. Thief is only really good at one thing and that is its role.

Yes, and that role doesn’t exist in GW2. That’s why it’s overpowered.

That is to say you think the role shouldn’t exist in GW2. It does because thief is filling it (proficiently).

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

(edited by Maugetarr.6823)

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Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

actually, i find it fun to fight thieves. I find it hillarious when i get the thief down to 75% HP. Then use warhorn 4, followed by sic’em (no stealth away for you) and a good old fashioned quickening Zephyr + Rapid fire and pet chill + cripple howl. Just so i can see them panic as their HP bar melts.

I do this almost every time. And guess what, 50% of the time, the thief Alt-F4 before i get to stomp em with my ranger.

Teef op? no
me op? nah
ranger op? someone else can be the judge of that

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

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Posted by: Julie Yann.5379

Julie Yann.5379

In PvP, thieves are not OP, they are actually pretty balanced and when dueling in OS, thieves are also pretty balanced because of the nature of those fights, there is no resetting in those fights cause you are almost always in combat. Where thieves become terribly broken and unpleasant is in open WvW. There they have free reign to easily reset as many times as they want and troll groups for as long as they please without any real risk. Add in some sigil and guard stacks along with a bloodlust buff and you have an insta-gib fest. (GS/SwWh warriors are just as bad)

Spamgineers, and Mesmers also have some pretty broken builds.

Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”

(edited by Julie Yann.5379)

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Posted by: Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

Somehow feel this thread was made to be inflammatory but, thief is not overpowered in structured pvp thief has a role to fulfill. Thief is only really good at one thing and that is its role.

Yes, and that role doesn’t exist in GW2. That’s why it’s overpowered.

That is to say you think the role shouldn’t exist in GW2. It does because thief is filling it (proficiently).

Anyone with half a brain knows that the “insta-gib class” exists because the “dedicated healer” exists. It’s an unfair mechanic made to counteract another unfair mechanic. Even so, it’s a lazy design that has been perpetuated from literal poop-sockers that played too much Everquest and then were hired by Blizzard to help design WoW.

“Pure classes” are a lazy design in the end. They are the easy way out. Making a triple-A MMO that incorporates such class design is little more than making a very expensive version of rock-paper-scissors.

GW2 had an opportunity to break that cycle with the whole “No healer class, guys!!” but they blew it by adding things like stability, channeled blocks/invulnerability skills, condition spam, instant-cast damage/CC, a bad stick-target system, traits (as we know them) and the Thief. To counteract these mechanics that truly only belong in a game with the “holy trinity,” they then started implemented nonsense like [Healing Signet] and Diamond Skin among others.

It’s like none of you actually see this happening in front of your eyes.

It’s only going to get worse. ANet doesn’t know how to handle a game like this. They actually had a grip on it at one point (as evidenced by mechanics and skills left over from very old starter-zone heart missions designed in early alpha or by the snowball/skill-stacking DPS effect that one can see on staff elementalist), but they mysteriously abandoned that initiative at some point for a reason that we’ll probably never know because ANet doesn’t like to converse about their internal reasoning with the player-base even if the reasons for some things are painfully obvious in some cases.

GW2 is a glorified rock-paper-scissors. ANet will do nothing except add more hard counters to the core rock-paper-scissors. They will then have to add counters to the new counters and so on and so forth. If they had just really stuck to the goal of making well-cued attacks that were aimed by the player, we wouldn’t need the overpowered mechanics that we see used every day in GW2.