Guild Wars 2

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

RyuDragnier.9476:

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

Projectile reflect says hi!
(yes, it also reflect combustive shot and arcing arrow)

sorrow.2364:

RyuDragnier.9476:

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

Projectile reflect says hi!
(yes, it also reflect combustive shot and arcing arrow)

So it’ll reflect an AoE put in front of him outside of hte reflection range?

RyuDragnier.9476:

sorrow.2364:

RyuDragnier.9476:

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

Projectile reflect says hi!
(yes, it also reflect combustive shot and arcing arrow)

So it’ll reflect an AoE put in front of him outside of hte reflection range?

No it won’t, sorrow must just be aiming directly at thieves using whirling axe with his aoes. Another L2P issue, nothing wrong with the skills.

sorrow.2364:

Galsia.4102:

Lay some tarp behind your computer chair and set aside some cleaning supplies; I’m going to blow your mind.

Berserker Stance

That would be nice if berserker stance had a 100% uptime and thief wasn’t able to disengage easily when berserker stance is on.

I mean, you don’t need a master degree in rocket science to get to such a conclusion.

I honestly doubt 100% up-time on Berserker Stance would even be enough to carry you.

sorrow.2364:

RyuDragnier.9476:

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

Projectile reflect says hi!
(yes, it also reflect combustive shot and arcing arrow)

WOW, are you serious? It does NOT reflect Arcing arrow, or Combustive Shot when aimed at their feet. The projectiles it can reflect on longbow are Pindown, the auto attack, and Smoldering Arrow.

If you want to be really technical about it, don’t even have a longbow out when whirling axe is being used, and switch to hammer, (or mace/shied) and interrupt. in an earlier post you said there is no counter and you don’t even know how to use your cooldowns properly.

godz raiden.2631:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sorrow.2364:

RyuDragnier.9476:

This entire talk of Whirling Axe being OP is just facepalm inducing. If the thief is doing this, he isn’t defending. Throw down AoEs on his spot with Longbow.

Projectile reflect says hi!
(yes, it also reflect combustive shot and arcing arrow)

So it’ll reflect an AoE put in front of him outside of hte reflection range?

No it won’t, sorrow must just be aiming directly at thieves using whirling axe with his aoes. Another L2P issue, nothing wrong with the skills.

Sorry, my question was rhetorical.

lol these threads get more funny as the game gets older

Although I don’t believe it is OP I do wonder why thieves get a better version of my own skill. Whirling Axe for warriors is quite lame.

Julie Yann.5379:

Although I don’t believe it is OP I do wonder why thieves get a better version of my own skill. Whirling Axe for warriors is quite lame.

Reason being you get a better tradeoff for using it. One use of Whirling Axe near 2 enemies is enough get 3 bars of Adrenaline. So you can WA → Eviscerate, which is a way better tradeoff IMO.

Julie Yann.5379:

Although I don’t believe it is OP I do wonder why thieves get a better version of my own skill. Whirling Axe for warriors is quite lame.

Yeah, I usually use the thief’s whirling axe as an example of what the warrior version should be, although the warrior can use it primarily for adrenaline benefits.

I don’t think the thief one is OP at all though, although it can definitely be extremely useful. If you run into a group with retal, you could kill yourself (warrior with spiked armor would just love it). Y also have no stability and can’t use your other skill (i.e. shadowstep, CnD), leaving yourself exposed. It’s basically like a mini version of dagger storm.

IMO the necro and mesmer ones are generally much stronger abilities to use than the whirling axe.

RyuDragnier.9476:

So it’ll reflect an AoE put in front of him outside of hte reflection range?

Unless you have T2+ Combustive Shot ready and the thief is standing still with whirling axe, both the skills are reflected.

The reflecting range isn’t that small.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

WOW, are you serious? It does NOT reflect Arcing arrow, or Combustive Shot when aimed at their feet. The projectiles it can reflect on longbow are Pindown, the auto attack, and Smoldering Arrow.

If you want to be really technical about it, don’t even have a longbow out when whirling axe is being used, and switch to hammer, (or mace/shied) and interrupt. in an earlier post you said there is no counter and you don’t even know how to use your cooldowns properly.

It reflects both projectile, just jump on HotM and check it out before calling bullkitten to what someone else says. The only case it doesn’t reflect those projectiles is if you manage to get the arcing arrow to land in the right spot not to be reflected (which means that the thief is standing still with WA) or you have a T2+ combustive shot.

Also, I’ve already pointed out why switching to Mace/Shield or hammer is an horrible idea, but apparently you really have no clue about it, still it doesn’t prevent you to be utterly arrogant and presumptuous.

godz raiden.2631:

No it won’t, sorrow must just be aiming directly at thieves using whirling axe with his aoes. Another L2P issue, nothing wrong with the skills.

I love forum randoms calling L2P to strangers.

Galsia.4102:

I honestly doubt 100% up-time on Berserker Stance would even be enough to carry you.

More childish personal attacks, please. This is exactly what this forum needs.

if a thief used this stolen skill (whirling axe) that means hes vulnerable to any attacks while channeling this s kill so hows that too OP?

Coloxeus.3480:

if a thief used this stolen skill (whirling axe) that means hes vulnerable to any attacks while channeling this s kill so hows that too OP?

It is because it can be used in combo with Black Powder, which completely invalidates the vulnerability to close range attacks.
That skill is not an issue on x/D sets.

sorrow.2364:

It is because it can be used in combo with Black Powder, which completely invalidates the vulnerability to close range attacks.

Use Berserker Stance or just walk away from the thief until it’s over. You shouldn’t be fighting in his blackpowder anyway, WA or not.

If a thief is smart enough to wait for your Berserker Stance to wear off, you can be smart enough to just walk away until WA/blackpowder is over, don’t you think?

sorrow.2364:

That skill is not an issue on x/D sets.

That skill is not an issue, if enemies know how to play.

Esper.3721:

Use Berserker Stance or just walk away from the thief until it’s over. You shouldn’t be fighting in his blackpowder anyway, WA or not.

If a thief is smart enough to wait for your Berserker Stance to wear off, you can be smart enough to just walk away until WA/blackpowder is over, don’t you think?

In both cases, your suggestions are bad choices.

In most team comps, thieves is not meant to defend a node while warrior is.
That means that if you leave the node, you’re failing your job.
On the other hand, thieves usually push for far point or perhaps join already started fights and never, ever, defend a node, unless if there is no other one available to do so and then rotate when someone is available to defend it.

That means that while thieves can freely disengage the fight and wait berserker stance to wear off, you can’t afford to leave the node and let the thief get a decap.

Not to say that while berserker stance is on a 60s cooldown, Black Powder takes just 6s to regenerate the initiative used, while trickery thieves can use WA every 21s, or even less if they have it already stolen.

Black Powder alone isn’t an issue since someone can just range the thief with LB, but when the projectile reflect and AoE damage kicks in, there isn’t much to do. Either you leave the node and let thief cap it or you die.

Esper.3721:

That skill is not an issue, if enemies know how to play.

Again, when you’ll stop making wild assumptions about other people, then I’ll take you seriously.

sorrow.2364:

godz raiden.2631:

No it won’t, sorrow must just be aiming directly at thieves using whirling axe with his aoes. Another L2P issue, nothing wrong with the skills.

I love forum randoms calling L2P to strangers.

Sorry, but if you’re coming here to complain about one the least useful and most situational of stolen abilities for thief, I’m not going to offer you any sympathy. Even if you are bad enough to hit the giant target that is a thief in whirling axe with your combustive shot, it’s still YOUR FAULT for firing the projectile in the first place. As far as you should be concerned playing your precious warrior class, a thief in whirling axe is giving you 3.5 seconds to get a little bit away from him and use your healing signet and adrenal healing to make sure when he gets out of whirling axe he’s gonna have to burn through a significant portion of your health again. Don’t come on this forum complaining about a thief stolen ability, especially as someone who plays warrior, thinking you’re going to get anything but ridiculed.

sorrow.2364:

Coloxeus.3480:

if a thief used this stolen skill (whirling axe) that means hes vulnerable to any attacks while channeling this s kill so hows that too OP?

It is because it can be used in combo with Black Powder, which completely invalidates the vulnerability to close range attacks.
That skill is not an issue on x/D sets.

Then make a new thread about how Black Powder needs changes instead of posting here. If it’s not this stolen ability that’s “OP” then you shouldn’t be talking about it, you should be talking exclusively about how Black Powder is too strong as a combo field (in your opinion).

godz raiden.2631:

Then make a new thread about how Black Powder needs changes instead of posting here. If it’s not this stolen ability that’s “OP” then you shouldn’t be talking about it, you should be talking exclusively about how Black Powder is too strong as a combo field (in your opinion).

Ignoring your sad rant, what I’ve pointed out to be broken is just the combo of Black Powder+WA, not both skills taken alone.

Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Julie Yann.5379:

Although I don’t believe it is OP I do wonder why thieves get a better version of my own skill. Whirling Axe for warriors is quite lame.

Reason being you get a better tradeoff for using it. One use of Whirling Axe near 2 enemies is enough get 3 bars of Adrenaline. So you can WA -> Eviscerate, which is a way better tradeoff IMO.

The problem is the a Warrior’s WA is only good for building adrenaline which is easy to build without it. It’s damage is kitten, the only time you will get decent DPS out of it is if you are hitting 5 targets at once.

DuranArgith.1354:

Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.

1.Sure they can, they just move out of the way.
2. If they’re not warrior, how did the thief get WA?
4. I’m trying to to think which class in the game is beholden soley to projectile weapons? The only one I can think of is Engineer, who also has the option of getting out of the way and further begs the question, where did the thief get WA?

It seems bizarre to me that the few bizarre claims that the WA is somehow overpowered, seems to come from people who use projectile weapons and don’t know how to stop shooting or warriors who don’t know how to use dodge. Both of whom, lets face it, deserve to lose for their laziness and would do so anyway given that these mechanics (reflect + dodge) are core to GW2 gameplay.

The last time I used whirling axe on a warrior in WvW, he hit me for a 16k eviscerate. When spinning out, you are no longer in stealth, dodging, or using evades and are a sitting duck to certain attacks. Even so, warriors have a ton of ways to counter it. Damage immunities, dodges, blocks with shield, mobility if swords, weakness with horn, etc.

I love it when thieves think they are smarter than me and try to reflect my kill shot. Aww… so cute.

wolfyrik.2017:

DuranArgith.1354:

Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.

1.Sure they can, they just move out of the way.
2. If they’re not warrior, how did the thief get WA?
4. I’m trying to to think which class in the game is beholden soley to projectile weapons? The only one I can think of is Engineer, who also has the option of getting out of the way and further begs the question, where did the thief get WA?

It seems bizarre to me that the few bizarre claims that the WA is somehow overpowered, seems to come from people who use projectile weapons and don’t know how to stop shooting or warriors who don’t know how to use dodge. Both of whom, lets face it, deserve to lose for their laziness and would do so anyway given that these mechanics (reflect + dodge) are core to GW2 gameplay.

Sigh, you do know they dont have to use it as soon as they get it.
They can steal it and just use it whenever.

DuranArgith.1354:

wolfyrik.2017:

DuranArgith.1354:

Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.

1.Sure they can, they just move out of the way.
2. If they’re not warrior, how did the thief get WA?
4. I’m trying to to think which class in the game is beholden soley to projectile weapons? The only one I can think of is Engineer, who also has the option of getting out of the way and further begs the question, where did the thief get WA?

It seems bizarre to me that the few bizarre claims that the WA is somehow overpowered, seems to come from people who use projectile weapons and don’t know how to stop shooting or warriors who don’t know how to use dodge. Both of whom, lets face it, deserve to lose for their laziness and would do so anyway given that these mechanics (reflect + dodge) are core to GW2 gameplay.

Sigh, you do know they dont have to use it as soon as they get it.
They can steal it and just use it whenever.

But why keep it? There are better things to steal, like the stealth giving items, Ectoplasm, Healing Seed, and Skull Fear. If I see anything from an Ele, or engi, it’s going to get used instantly just because of how useless the items you steal from them are. Warrior and Guardian are a miniscule better just because of the fact that one is a projectile reflector, and the other is a daze, but both are just as likely to get used instantly by me.

sorrow.2364:

Galsia.4102:

I honestly doubt 100% up-time on Berserker Stance would even be enough to carry you.

More childish personal attacks, please. This is exactly what this forum needs.

sorrow.2364:

I mean, you don’t need a master degree in rocket science to get to such a conclusion.

sorrow.2364:

Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

k.

/15char

sorrow.2364:

godz raiden.2631:

Then make a new thread about how Black Powder needs changes instead of posting here. If it’s not this stolen ability that’s “OP” then you shouldn’t be talking about it, you should be talking exclusively about how Black Powder is too strong as a combo field (in your opinion).

Ignoring your sad rant, what I’ve pointed out to be broken is just the combo of Black Powder+WA, not both skills taken alone.

Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

Quite literally everyone else in this thread is looking at things objectively and everyone else in this thread and presenting solutions to this problem that only you are facing.

What might help is if you jump on a thief and try to take advantage of whirling axe in the way that you suggest and then come back and post the results. I can guarantee that you will find that it’s simply not as easy as you state it to be.

I really loathe having to resort to the L2P argument but it stands awfully true, you just need more practice. The sooner you realise this, the better you’ll be as a warrior.

This is brilliant (off topic though):

sorrow.2364:

Ignoring your sad rant…
Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

sorrow.2364:

More childish personal attacks, please. This is exactly what this forum needs.

:| Someone grab the fire extinguisher…

On topic, yeah sure nerf WA… It’s already on the nerf wish list .
Please mods move the wish list from the thief forum and into balance forum… So that everyone can contribute

sorrow.2364:

godz raiden.2631:

Then make a new thread about how Black Powder needs changes instead of posting here. If it’s not this stolen ability that’s “OP” then you shouldn’t be talking about it, you should be talking exclusively about how Black Powder is too strong as a combo field (in your opinion).

Ignoring your sad rant, what I’ve pointed out to be broken is just the combo of Black Powder+WA, not both skills taken alone.

Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

I play Engineer, Mesmer, guardian, and warrior as well, I simply main thief. I’m not angry either, but you sure seem to be. Too many people start disagreeing with you and you start calling them children. Classy. It’s all good, I no longer have any interest in trying to help you believe that there are ways around getting face rolled by a not so awesome stolen skill from a thief. Have fun losing to thieves because you refuse to better yourself.

kylwilson.9137:

Quite literally everyone else in this thread is looking at things objectively and everyone else in this thread and presenting solutions to this problem that only you are facing.

What might help is if you jump on a thief and try to take advantage of whirling axe in the way that you suggest and then come back and post the results. I can guarantee that you will find that it’s simply not as easy as you state it to be.

I really loathe having to resort to the L2P argument but it stands awfully true, you just need more practice. The sooner you realise this, the better you’ll be as a warrior.

I have played thief and I know how it plays.
Black Powder+WA is extremely cheap against warriors.

What you guys are failing to understand is that if someone complains in the forum about a skill or a combo, doesn’t necessarily means that he has trouble dealing with it or that he should learn to play.

The L2P argument has been the justification to pretty much anything OP GW2 has seen.
Hambow warrior? L2P dude, just dodge earthshaker!
CnD+Backstab instagib thief? L2P man, he’s glass just dodge the backstab and kill the thief!
S/D flanking strike evade spam thief? L2P, thief is glassy!
Condi burst fearmancer? L2P and use stunbreakers!
Spirit ranger? L2P and kill the spirits!

Any of those builds had a some sort of counterplay before getting nerfed and of course they were easy to counter against bads, but as much as the level of competition rise, when something OP is in the hands of good players, the situation gets worse and worse.

When everything is OP, there are two kind of people in the forums. The ones who point it out and the ones who completely ignore the imbalance and calling L2P to other people, while still abusing the flawed combo/build/mechanic.

godz raiden.2631:

I play Engineer, Mesmer, guardian, and warrior as well, I simply main thief. I’m not angry either, but you sure seem to be. Too many people start disagreeing with you and you start calling them children. Classy. It’s all good, I no longer have any interest in trying to help you believe that there are ways around getting face rolled by a not so awesome stolen skill from a thief. Have fun losing to thieves because you refuse to better yourself.

Oh well, you’re not angry but still you used quite a sarcastic and hateful tone against me in the last post.
I was calling you kid because you started your argument with “L2P” (an assumption about your interlocutor), which is a behavior typical of a not grown man.

If you felt insulted because I’ve called you kid, probably you shouldn’t have said L2P to me, nor calling me bad.

This entire thread still amazes me.

Take a few steps away from the blind field if there is one, then just ONE CC (no Stability) or any amount of threatening damage (which isn’t difficult) to force them to dodge out of it. Heck, one Eviscerate will probably instantly kill him/her. What is so hard about this? After 2k hours on my WvW Warrior I have not ONCE died to this skill. It is a gigantic “LOOK AT ME I’M A TARGET” button.

WA is fine. It is absolutely, 100% perfectly fine. Absolutely zero excuses. Everyone who gives one needs to L2P. That is the end of it. Don’t even try and argue for the reflection, either. What Warrior on the planet uses a Rifle and LB range-only build? Well, if you do, I suggest you revise your entire playstyle because you might be the most useless Warrior on in all of Tyria.

I’ll copy a replay I made in another thread to a guy who thought that because I’m made this thread I am getting perma-stomped by thieves. Let me just say – it’s very far from the truth “However…
there are some good thieves who run S/P , a build which is already super ez vs warriors who did beat me, and yet the most damage they were applying is with ‘whirling axe’. So yeah I do still think this steal skill is too strong – in the right hands.
Some warrior builds counter it better, other will just fall flat dead (no fast hand stuck on LG for 10sec), and yet some thieves will call it garbage even if it gave them invulnerability while spinning and had another pair of hands to spam the 3 button with.”

There are some counters to this skill, very few imo, and there are situations where it won’t help the thief at all, but there are plenty of other times this skill can just be way too strong, too much for just a stolen skill.

All I am saying is if this skill had like 2.5sec duration instead of 3.5 it would probably make it much more balanced.

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

sorrow.2364:

kylwilson.9137:

Quite literally everyone else in this thread is looking at things objectively and everyone else in this thread and presenting solutions to this problem that only you are facing.

What might help is if you jump on a thief and try to take advantage of whirling axe in the way that you suggest and then come back and post the results. I can guarantee that you will find that it’s simply not as easy as you state it to be.

I really loathe having to resort to the L2P argument but it stands awfully true, you just need more practice. The sooner you realise this, the better you’ll be as a warrior.

I have played thief and I know how it plays.
Black Powder+WA is extremely cheap against warriors.

What you guys are failing to understand is that if someone complains in the forum about a skill or a combo, doesn’t necessarily means that he has trouble dealing with it or that he should learn to play.

The L2P argument has been the justification to pretty much anything OP GW2 has seen.
Hambow warrior? L2P dude, just dodge earthshaker!
CnD+Backstab instagib thief? L2P man, he’s glass just dodge the backstab and kill the thief!
S/D flanking strike evade spam thief? L2P, thief is glassy!
Condi burst fearmancer? L2P and use stunbreakers!
Spirit ranger? L2P and kill the spirits!

Any of those builds had a some sort of counterplay before getting nerfed and of course they were easy to counter against bads, but as much as the level of competition rise, when something OP is in the hands of good players, the situation gets worse and worse.

When everything is OP, there are two kind of people in the forums. The ones who point it out and the ones who completely ignore the imbalance and calling L2P to other people, while still abusing the flawed combo/build/mechanic.

The thing you’re just not seeing, is that Whirling Axe isn’t being used way you describe “in the hands of good players”, because ‘good players’ know that it’s soooooooooooo easily counter-able and it’d put them in an even worse spot to use Whirling Axe in such a way.

When rather than spin around like they’re on the set of Flashdance for a few seconds, they could have finished you off and had a point half captured (sPVP mindframe here), or just waited until you pulled out Longbow or something, you know?

There are better things “good players” will do in that situation, because the situation you’re describing with Whirling Axe isn’t great enough or valid enough to abuse.

Good lord you’re comparing Spirit Rangers to Whirling Axe. I just don’t know what to say now. All of this fuss is just silly.

evilapprentice.6379:

Thank you for inching us 1 skill closer to the “Every single skill/ability/trait associated with thief is OP” singularity. I’ve got it on good authority that once every single thing related to thief has been called OP on the boards, the class will be deleted. You’re going to have a tough time with Vital shot and Hard to Catch though.

ROFL – funny as all heck … thanks!

+1

kylwilson.9137:

The thing you’re just not seeing, is that Whirling Axe isn’t being used way you describe “in the hands of good players”, because ‘good players’ know that it’s soooooooooooo easily counter-able and it’d put them in an even worse spot to use Whirling Axe in such a way.

When rather than spin around like they’re on the set of Flashdance for a few seconds, they could have finished you off and had a point half captured (sPVP mindframe here), or just waited until you pulled out Longbow or something, you know?

There are better things “good players” will do in that situation, because the situation you’re describing with Whirling Axe isn’t great enough or valid enough to abuse.

Good lord you’re comparing Spirit Rangers to Whirling Axe. I just don’t know what to say now. All of this fuss is just silly.

I don’t know what you’re talking about, but pretty much any thief in the top half of the leaderboard lays down Black Powder before going into WA and there isn’t so much to do in that situation.

In that way, they force you offpoint if you don’t have your cooldowns up or take kittenloads of damage. In the worse case scenario, they just have 3s free pass against any form of damage (both melee because of black powder and ranged because of reflections). On a 21s cooldown.

JETWING.2759:

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

Let me get this straight. You were in WvW, the epitome of game balance, you lose to this one Thief and your conclusion is to buff Warriors?
Thank you for a good laugh!

JorneMormel.9850:

JETWING.2759:

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

Let me get this straight. You were in WvW, the epitome of game balance, you lose to this one Thief and your conclusion is to buff Warriors?
Thank you for a good laugh!

Well same thing goes when thiefs lose to a warrior. They come to forums to cry for nerfs. Btw he said OR, not 1 and another, 1 OR another. Not saying his proposal is good, but reading helps these days

Introp.8465:

Well same thing goes than thiefs lose to a warrior. They come to forums to cry for nerfs. Btw he said OR, not 1 and another, 1 OR another. Not saying his proposal is good, but reading helps these days

I am not advocating for any class proposing for changes to the game in the name of balance, when really they ask for it because they lost and are upset. The whole suggestion came out rather funny to me, ’s all. If I would have to edit it, I would change my wording of conclusion to suggestion, although either would mean a buff to Warriors in any situation against a Thief (that has not already acquired a better “stolen” item.)

So yes, I stand by what I wrote as I was merely pointing out the irony in that post.

As for the previous argument that the Warrior would have to pop a cooldown in order to stay on point, does the Thief not pop an offensive cooldown? Obviously some counter-play is in order then.

while i in no way think it is OP there is a super secret (that works with both thief and warrior versions) that makes them really great.
and i’ve noticed noone has mentioned it yet,
you can dodge while channelling!

for warriors this means that you also get around 6k damage from the damaging dodge trait (as a glass warrior in pvp)

and for a thief with endurance return trait it means you can get 3 dodge rolls off in the middle of a group without worrying about CC and dying

JorneMormel.9850:

JETWING.2759:

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

Let me get this straight. You were in WvW, the epitome of game balance, you lose to this one Thief and your conclusion is to buff Warriors?
Thank you for a good laugh!

That was a few example. The goal are not buff warrior but are unfair that a stolen skill is better than the original.
The goal of this tread are put in line this skill, just removing projectile reflection.

JETWING.2759:

JorneMormel.9850:

JETWING.2759:

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

Let me get this straight. You were in WvW, the epitome of game balance, you lose to this one Thief and your conclusion is to buff Warriors?
Thank you for a good laugh!

That was a few example. The goal are not buff warrior but are unfair that a stolen skill is better than the original.
The goal of this tread are put in line this skill, just removing projectile reflection.

Again, the stolen skill is not better, mostly because 80% of the thieves in WvW are glass cannon. That means WA is at the full power it would have (or maybe less) than a full glass cannon warrior’s WA. Unless you have a comparison of a full GC warrior’s WA and then a full GC thief’s WA, all you’re proving is that you got killed by a glass cannon thief.

Sorry but out of all the skills on steal this is the one that really doesn’t matter. In general, you see a Theif whirling you avoid them, should be simple. Not to mention the effectiveness of this skill drops drastically the further away you get from being glass cannon on theif. It is like dagger storm, good when used right but mostly useless in situations where it is easily avoidable.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Again, the stolen skill is not better, mostly because 80% of the thieves in WvW are glass cannon. That means WA is at the full power it would have (or maybe less) than a full glass cannon warrior’s WA. Unless you have a comparison of a full GC warrior’s WA and then a full GC thief’s WA, all you’re proving is that you got killed by a glass cannon thief.

This is incorrect.
Whirling Axe in PvE/WvW suffers from 33% reduced damages (ie deals 50% more damage in PvP compared to PvE), while stolen WA was unchanged.
That does not mean that I think that stolen skills shouldn’t be stronger than the original.

Just cut it out. This is turning into a personal vendetta between you guys, rather than an on-topic discussion.

As for Whirling Axe (the skill, not the steal ability) doing less damage in PvE and WvW compared to PvP. I could agree it is inconsistent, but I fail to see how the stolen ability is overpowered.

TLDR the kitten fight above.

I honestly wish they would remove the extra special abilities you get from Steal and just grant a short boon to damage.

The class mechanic is unique and a good idea but horribly implemented, like much of the game. The one thing the thief does not do very well in is support. The thievery line grants some boons and boon steals when you use steal but it isn’t really effective. Really, the class exceeds in being more of an assassin than a thief and that’s where Anet needs to work on.

RyuDragnier.9476:

JETWING.2759:

JorneMormel.9850:

JETWING.2759:

Yesterday in WvW i faced a thief that abused of condition, stealth and steal. I can’t fight at range with LB because he just wait i use pin down to reflect with WA, this was every time, then when i tried go melee he just stealth and appeared at range to still spaming conditions and reflecting my arrows.

My opinion:

Remove reflect projectile from stolen WA, or also give this effect to warrior WA.

Let me get this straight. You were in WvW, the epitome of game balance, you lose to this one Thief and your conclusion is to buff Warriors?
Thank you for a good laugh!

That was a few example. The goal are not buff warrior but are unfair that a stolen skill is better than the original.
The goal of this tread are put in line this skill, just removing projectile reflection.

Again, the stolen skill is not better, mostly because 80% of the thieves in WvW are glass cannon. That means WA is at the full power it would have (or maybe less) than a full glass cannon warrior’s WA. Unless you have a comparison of a full GC warrior’s WA and then a full GC thief’s WA, all you’re proving is that you got killed by a glass cannon thief.

He wasn’t glass cannon, he looks more an rabid thief with P/D. WA was used only to reflect LB arrows, especially pin down.

WA is stupid OP against baddies who can’t kite. I do find it funny that warriors are complaining about it though, since its one of a few things that may actually require more than facerolling to deal with.

Wait, some Warriors actually die to thieves?

We are dangerously close to thieves being deleted. In the second post on this thread evilapprentice mentioned that we are very close to the"thief is op" singularity.

With WA being overpowered we really only had “hard to catch” and “vital shot” to count on.

Well….

in this post

“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Guardian-List-of-useless-traits-and-skills”

Under “virtues” the OP says the following.

" Really? Other classes get things like shadowstep away on cc, "

I ask you, does this qualify? I am pretty sure it does. He is not outright saying hard to catch is OP but he is surely implying it.

Hold me, I’m really scared of deletion now.