Guild Wars 2

Thieves are able to trigger the 6/6 Rune of the Krait and stack a massive amount of condi without ever coming unstealthed.

Makes for a pretty unfair fight.

Have thieves ever really been fair to fight against in the first place? Yes sorta sarcastic but I had to do it!

I’m not going to side with you on this as honestly the only builds I have a problem with in this game are Perplexity Thieves, Perplexity Mesmers and PU Mesmers. Besides that I think there’s a way to fight everything depending on the profession/build you’re using.

However, I do have to say that Krait rune Thieves can definitely be a pain… I’m not sure what the exact combo they do is as when I played Thief I only ever played D/P zerk Thief. But when they hit me, I get turned to stone by Basilisk Venom and get Confusion, Bleeding, Blindness, Cripple, Torment, Immobilize (sometimes), Vulnerability and Poison on me all at once in one attack. It is definitely hard to deal with I can say that much.

Um… Okay?
Do you want them nerfed…? Or is this just a statement you’re expressing on the board for whatever reason…? I get that people are supposed to discuss things but… Seems like you’re just stating your opinion.

And off to the nerf wish list we go!

Btw how can thieves " stack a massive amount of condi without ever coming unstealthed."? Do elaborate…

Zero Day.2594:

Um… Okay?
Do you want them nerfed…? Or is this just a statement you’re expressing on the board for whatever reason…? I get that people are supposed to discuss things but… Seems like you’re just stating your opinion.

And off to the nerf wish list we go!

Btw how can thieves " stack a massive amount of condi without ever coming unstealthed."? Do elaborate…

Rune of the Krait

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Um… Okay?
Do you want them nerfed…? Or is this just a statement you’re expressing on the board for whatever reason…? I get that people are supposed to discuss things but… Seems like you’re just stating your opinion.

And off to the nerf wish list we go!

Btw how can thieves " stack a massive amount of condi without ever coming unstealthed."? Do elaborate…

Rune of the Krait

So… basilisk venom and the 6th effect? 3 conditions every 45 seconds (rune’s internal CD)…? Am I missing something? Are you dieing from that? Are you sure it’s just that?

(Yeah there’s more to it… the thing is though, you’re not saying it or forgot to explain it in the first post… instead it looks like just rage/cry thread)

Dear OP,

What is unfair is that players keep making excuses to nerf a single profession, especially one that the development team barely understands or even plays, when there is none.

Bring more condition cleanse, play the profession and build yourself or get out of PvP. There is no reason to complain about anything in PvP because the point of it is to win. The thieves who are killing you are doing PvP properly by winning.

Seriously.

smh at the rage in this thread.

I’m no noob in pvp.

…and I’ve seen the popularity of guardians running Krait runes spike through the roof recently…. Players are finally starting to realize the potential of the unpopular runes….

and this particular combo goes far beyond the synergy that can happen with other professions and builds.

This is overpowered.

Also I’m not asking for a nerf to thieves, or even the runes…

I’m asking that the runes trigger a strike and cause revealed, like every other attack in the game.

Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
You’re complaining about one stack of bleeding, torment and poison on 40 second CD? Especially when there are much better ways to apply these?
It looks like ppl are really complaining just for the sake of complaining now, really….

@OP
this has nothing to do with krait runes specifically, all that happened is that a p/p or p/d venom thief stealth’d, triggered all his venoms, came out of stealth and dropped all his venom-stacks on you, and went into stealth again while letting you tick to death.

krait maybe enhances his duration and adds one more cripple/bleed/torment stack, but the real condi-pressure comes from their venoms.

counterplay:
general cleanse, since venoms are on long cd’s
be a necro and transfer them back (devastating hardcounter)
be a ele with diamond-skin (hardcounter) and(devastating hardcounter)/or(hardcounter) use ethereal renewal as healing skill
be a guardian/engi and transmute them (semi-hardcounter)

Sure lets just remove the 1 stack of bleed, poison and torment from the rune.
I can’t say that it will be changing the game in any way.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…and I’ve seen the popularity of guardians running Krait runes spike through the roof recently…. Players are finally starting to realize the potential of the unpopular runes….

Care to explain why a guardian should use the rune?
They can’t use the increased bleed duration which is imo the major point to the rune, due to not having any skill that applies bleed.
Only use I can see is a condi guardian using the 6th bonus to cover his burning.

Turamarth.3248:

Sure lets just remove the 1 stack of bleed, poison and torment from the rune.
I can’t say that it will be changing the game in any way.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…and I’ve seen the popularity of guardians running Krait runes spike through the roof recently…. Players are finally starting to realize the potential of the unpopular runes….

Care to explain why a guardian should use the rune?
They can’t use the increased bleed duration which is imo the major point to the rune, due to not having any skill that applies bleed.
Only use I can see is a condi guardian using the 6th bonus to cover his burning.

There is a condi medi guard build that uses the runes.

Very strong build.

I think many of the people in this thread honestly have no idea how strong these runes really are in pvp, since it has only just begin to receive popularity, and have not come across too many players running the runes yet.

Medi Guard build is

6) II VII XIII
2) III
6) I II XII
0
0

Krait Runes
Carrion Amulet
Doom and Geomancy on both weapon sets.

STRanger.5120:

Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
You’re complaining about one stack of bleeding, torment and poison on 40 second CD? Especially when there are much better ways to apply these?
It looks like ppl are really complaining just for the sake of complaining now, really….

The best part is, it is always nitpicking about Thieves somehow, as if their whole world gets flipped by this one class :P

Meanwhile I keep exploding them on my Necro, but hey ^^

GoogleBrandon.5073:

STRanger.5120:

Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
You’re complaining about one stack of bleeding, torment and poison on 40 second CD? Especially when there are much better ways to apply these?
It looks like ppl are really complaining just for the sake of complaining now, really….

The best part is, it is always nitpicking about Thieves somehow, as if their whole world gets flipped by this one class :P

Meanwhile I keep exploding them on my Necro, but hey ^^

Yeah, that is annoying as hell too, it seems like everybody hates Thieves just because they exist…. I know it’s very painful to someone’s ego when rekt by a stealth class, but it’s a game kitten ….
I’m getting rekt by them too, especially on my mesmer, and guess what? My world is still intact…
Ppl just have to get over themselves, accept that GW2 is not a game with an ultimate-all-killing build and can encounter a counterbuild or be outplayed by someone who is better. Just like that…

STRanger.5120:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

STRanger.5120:

Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
You’re complaining about one stack of bleeding, torment and poison on 40 second CD? Especially when there are much better ways to apply these?
It looks like ppl are really complaining just for the sake of complaining now, really….

The best part is, it is always nitpicking about Thieves somehow, as if their whole world gets flipped by this one class :P

Meanwhile I keep exploding them on my Necro, but hey ^^

Yeah, that is annoying as hell too, it seems like everybody hates Thieves just because they exist…. I know it’s very painful to someone’s ego when rekt by a stealth class, but it’s a game kitten ….
I’m getting rekt by them too, especially on my mesmer, and guess what? My world is still intact…
Ppl just have to get over themselves, accept that GW2 is not a game with an ultimate-all-killing build and can encounter a counterbuild or be outplayed by someone who is better. Just like that…

Nobody is saying anything about thieves being overpowered, if anything the runes are whats op…. and I’m just asking that it reveals you when it procs.

Is a nerf to krait runes functionality in stealth so detrimental that it requires a herd of thieves lining up to qq about it?

“Waaaah….. Don’t nerf my class.”

Read through this thread. This is about the krait runes and stealth, not “nerf thieves because they are op.”

The only reason the word ‘Thief’ happens to be in this thread, is because it is the only class with stealth at its disposal that would actually get some use out of the runes.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Nobody is saying anything about thieves being overpowered, if anything the runes are whats op…. and I’m just asking that it reveals you when it procs.

Is a nerf to krait runes functionality in stealth so detrimental that it requires a herd of thieves lining up to qq about it?

“Waaaah….. Don’t nerf my class.”

Read through this thread. This is about the krait runes and stealth, not “nerf thieves because they are op.”

Thing is… you are adding to a waterfall of tears of something “You think is unfair”…
You know, like all the other posters who complain about Thieves…

“Stealth OP”
“Mobility OP”
Fireworks OP

Also, your title adresses Thieves specifically, while you ignore all other classes who can stealth… Why is this? Because it was not aimed at Thieves? Because every little thing they do is unfair, but on other classes it is fine?

This is why we are complaining about the complaints… Frankly, most people are tired of it…

Mad King Runes cannot work in conjuction with Mass Invis already, if Krait Runes did the same, there would be nearly no reason to even run this Elite in conjuction with “a” condition build (even though most are semi-viable on Mesmers as it is)… If anything, I would opt that Mad King Runes should not break Stealth because it is kind of funky that you pretty much counter your own Elite…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

STRanger.5120:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

STRanger.5120:

Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
You’re complaining about one stack of bleeding, torment and poison on 40 second CD? Especially when there are much better ways to apply these?
It looks like ppl are really complaining just for the sake of complaining now, really….

The best part is, it is always nitpicking about Thieves somehow, as if their whole world gets flipped by this one class :P

Meanwhile I keep exploding them on my Necro, but hey ^^

Yeah, that is annoying as hell too, it seems like everybody hates Thieves just because they exist…. I know it’s very painful to someone’s ego when rekt by a stealth class, but it’s a game kitten ….
I’m getting rekt by them too, especially on my mesmer, and guess what? My world is still intact…
Ppl just have to get over themselves, accept that GW2 is not a game with an ultimate-all-killing build and can encounter a counterbuild or be outplayed by someone who is better. Just like that…

Nobody is saying anything about thieves being overpowered, if anything the runes are whats op…. and I’m just asking that it reveals you when it procs.

Is a nerf to krait runes functionality in stealth so detrimental that it requires a herd of thieves lining up to qq about it?

“Waaaah….. Don’t nerf my class.”

Read through this thread. This is about the krait runes and stealth, not “nerf thieves because they are op.”

The only reason the word ‘Thief’ happens to be in this thread, is because it is the only class with stealth at its disposal that would actually get some use out of the runes.

Rune of the Krait now, Rune of the Sunless tomorrow?
Try to be honest now…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Nobody is saying anything about thieves being overpowered, if anything the runes are whats op…. and I’m just asking that it reveals you when it procs.

Is a nerf to krait runes functionality in stealth so detrimental that it requires a herd of thieves lining up to qq about it?

“Waaaah….. Don’t nerf my class.”

Read through this thread. This is about the krait runes and stealth, not “nerf thieves because they are op.”

Thing is… you are adding to a waterfall of tears of something “You think is unfair”…
You know, like all the other posters who complain about Thieves…

“Stealth OP”
“Mobility OP”
Fireworks OP

Also, your title adresses Thieves specifically, while you ignore all other classes who can stealth… Why is this? Because it was not aimed at Thieves? Because every little thing they do is unfair, but on other classes it is fine?

This is why we are complaining about the complaints… Frankly, most people are tired of it…

Mad King Runes cannot work in conjuction with Mass Invis already, if Krait Runes did the same, there would be nearly no reason to even run this Elite in conjuction with “a” condition build (even though most are semi-viable on Mesmers as it is)… If anything, I would opt that Mad King Runes should not break Stealth because it is kind of funky that you pretty much counter your own Elite…

I don’t know if you realized, but I added a line to the bottom of my post before you finished your reply.

But I’ll reiterate just in case you are confused.

Thieves are the only class with stealth at their disposal who would be able to use this rune effectively.

Sorry that something thieves are capable of doing is overpowered.

Heaven forbid we balance a set of runes thieves are able to (ab)use.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I don’t know if you realized, but I added a line to the bottom of my post before you finished your reply.

But I’ll reiterate just in case you are confused.

Thieves are the only class with stealth at their disposal who would be able to use this rune effectively.

Sorry that something thieves are capable of doing is overpowered.

Heaven forbid we balance a set of runes thieves are able to (ab)use.

You are fooling yourself really… A Thief who runs an “Effective build” with this, and spamming stealth sacrifices more than you realize…

This being said, I think I can make a Mesmer build utilizing Krait runes and spam stealth while doing so… My point still stands, why are you emphasizing on Thieves if you do not think it is so much of an issue?

Last one, Krait runes, even when the application makes them stay in stealth is not Overpowered… Far from it, since you do not get a lethal dose of Conditions, and you can mitigate them easily…
Though not a profesional on Thieves, I figure that such a build has limited range and mobility – so be free to kite them silly and mitigate the damage that you take (Condi in this case)

And if your only arguement is “Because it is unfair” – then boy, are we going to have fun about the things I think “are unfair” because you can easily have the most biased conversation with me, but you will likely never win that arguement due to my stubborness…

Edit

Give me a build, then we talk

Why do you argue with op?

What if they nerf this?

Who worry about this . . ?

What kind of thief is currently using this runes?

1 stack of poison, bleed and torment every 40 second!!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OP you made my day HAHAHAHAHAH

Please anet nerf this AHAHAHAHA it made me laugh at least!

If anything, Rangers entangle and krait runes are far stronger. AOE 6 stacks of bleed, poison, torment and immobilize is quite strong.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I don’t know if you realized, but I added a line to the bottom of my post before you finished your reply.

But I’ll reiterate just in case you are confused.

Thieves are the only class with stealth at their disposal who would be able to use this rune effectively.

Sorry that something thieves are capable of doing is overpowered.

Heaven forbid we balance a set of runes thieves are able to (ab)use.

You are fooling yourself really… A Thief who runs an “Effective build” with this, and spamming stealth sacrifices more than you realize…

This being said, I think I can make a Mesmer build utilizing Krait runes and spam stealth while doing so… My point still stands, why are you emphasizing on Thieves if you do not think it is so much of an issue?

Last one, Krait runes, even when the application makes them stay in stealth is not Overpowered… Far from it, since you do not get a lethal dose of Conditions, and you can mitigate them easily…
Though not a profesional on Thieves, I figure that such a build has limited range and mobility – so be free to kite them silly and mitigate the damage that you take (Condi in this case)

And if your only arguement is “Because it is unfair” – then boy, are we going to have fun about the things I think “are unfair” because you can easily have the most biased conversation with me, but you will likely never win that arguement due to my stubborness…

Edit

Give me a build, then we talk

What elite do you intend to use to trigger your krait 6/6?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I don’t know if you realized, but I added a line to the bottom of my post before you finished your reply.

But I’ll reiterate just in case you are confused.

Thieves are the only class with stealth at their disposal who would be able to use this rune effectively.

Sorry that something thieves are capable of doing is overpowered.

Heaven forbid we balance a set of runes thieves are able to (ab)use.

You are fooling yourself really… A Thief who runs an “Effective build” with this, and spamming stealth sacrifices more than you realize…

This being said, I think I can make a Mesmer build utilizing Krait runes and spam stealth while doing so… My point still stands, why are you emphasizing on Thieves if you do not think it is so much of an issue?

Last one, Krait runes, even when the application makes them stay in stealth is not Overpowered… Far from it, since you do not get a lethal dose of Conditions, and you can mitigate them easily…
Though not a profesional on Thieves, I figure that such a build has limited range and mobility – so be free to kite them silly and mitigate the damage that you take (Condi in this case)

And if your only arguement is “Because it is unfair” – then boy, are we going to have fun about the things I think “are unfair” because you can easily have the most biased conversation with me, but you will likely never win that arguement due to my stubborness…

Edit

Give me a build, then we talk

What elite do you intend to use to trigger your krait 6/6?

How are we sure you know what you’re talking about and not just trolling us? Show us this magical build that you’re accusing in this post.

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

hahahaha dude go ahead i will sign for this nerf . . .

no one cares about it . . . there are no direct attacks now that doesn’t break stealth.

what calltrops? just stand out of the circle . . . xD is a field . . . also should break stealth? fine do it no one cares about this.

You just dont know hot to complain anymore with new stuff . . . whats next . . . traps are op?

HAHAHAHAH

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Some traps,Caltrops,SR,Black Powder,Smoke Screen,and a steal with no mug can do it….this is not about stealth it’s a p/d QQ thread . Even I found rangers with that rune+entagle strong it’s in no way broken..following logic nighmare,balthazar,perplexity,orr…..runes should do damage on their on proc conditions…how do I use a stealth skill and revealed at the same time?? Why should I be punished for dodging in SR when I traited Uncatchble…oh wait SR will reveal me!!!

QQ about the hated version of condi thief…moving on.

Sagat.3285:

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Some traps,Caltrops,SR,Black Powder,Smoke Screen,traits,and a steal with no mug can do it….this is not about stealth it’s a p/d QQ thread . Even I found rangers with that rune+entagle strong it’s in no way broken..following logic nighmare,balthazar,perplexity,orr…..runes should do damage on their on proc conditions…how do I use a stealth skill and revealed at the same time?? Why should I be punished for dodging in SR when I traited Uncatchble…oh wait SR will reveal me!!!

QQ about the hated version of condi thief…moving on.

Sagat.3285:

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Some traps,Caltrops,SR,Black Powder,Smoke Screen,and a steal with no mug can do it….this is not about stealth it’s a p/d QQ thread . Even I found rangers with that rune+entagle strong it’s in no way broken..following logic nighmare,balthazar,perplexity,orr…..runes should do damage on their on proc conditions…how do I use a stealth skill and revealed at the same time?? Why should I be punished for dodging in SR when I traited Uncatchble…oh wait SR will reveal me!!!

QQ about the hated version of condi thief…moving on.

You and all the other pro-thieves in this thread are just reading things between the lines that simply aren’t there.

1) I understand thieves get a lot of flack on the forums from players who don’t understand how stealth works, or how to counter thieves.

2) I also understand that there is an immense number of players who patrol the forums waiting for someone to complain about thieves, so that they can chime in and protect their favorite pvp class.

3) This isn’t a qq thread about thieves or stealth. (I don’t know how you got p/d out of any of this) This is a thread about the mechanics of a rune, which is able to bypass the basic mechanics of revealed/stealth functionality.

4) There are indeed a few classes which in my opinion can utilize the krait runes more efficiently than a condi thief, but again they are not the ones abusing stealth/revealed mechanic, and it is irrelevant to this thread.

5) Your complaints about other thief mechanics have no weight here. Feel free to make your own thread complaining about how you feel certain aspects of thief need to be buffed and carry on the discussion elsewhere.

Would a change to mechanics, causing stealthed players to become revealed after triggering the 6/6 effect of these runes, even relate to what you people are ranting about?

Again…

Sorry your class gets hit with the nerf bat a lot, but half of you have probably never actually even seen these runes in action on a thief, let alone use them yourself.

You are all arguing your points based simply on the premise that “thieves are going to get another nerf.”

The OP mentioned thief using those runes only p/d condi does and doesn’t like condition application while stealth without getting revealed not direct but only p/d does that even tough it’s ineffective. I am not saying he wants a thief nerf just stating his logic on a general point of view aka all conditions and alike runes . He didn’t directly mentioned(not criticized) the spec just 100% proof that it is.

I used the runes before switching to trap runes,if they add a critable attack to it put it on all runes nightmare,perplexity and alike. Would like it on Balthazar Runes it goes well with the burn^^ might be interesting for tormenting and perplexity runes as well shatter condition mesmer syncs well.

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Stealth is designed just fine in this game. The problem is how other things are designed to work with stealth.

If a thief applies conditions and no direct damage, it makes perfect sense that they are not revealed. If a player is incapable of dealing with 2 condition stacks every kitten , that is your problem.

“If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month.” – Theodore Roosevelt.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…
2) I also understand that there is an immense number of players who patrol the forums waiting for someone to complain about thieves, so that they can chime in and protect their favorite pvp class.
…

So I will associate myself to this point here… though, I’m not really much of a protector, more like a tear collector… – and personally, it’s way more fun to see thief getting hit with even more nerfs, I’m a masochist to a degree – let’s see how many hits the class can take before it’s “balanced”.

You know… aside from what you’ve said in your OP, I still have every little clue as to what scenario is so OP… Okay, there’s stealth, okay there’s the 6th effect of the rune, okay I pop say basilik venom… is that it? Is this the complaint? the combination of those 3?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Sagat.3285:

Vanthian.9267:

The op is talking about the kittened design of stealth in this game not a single stack of bleed/poison/torment. It is pretty stupid the thief can activate and actually land the 6th bonus of these runes while in stealth and not be revealed. It is the same complaint that housed the changed for the shortbow poison cloud. A Thief in no way should be able to stack a condition on a target in stealth and stay in stealth.

Some traps,Caltrops,SR,Black Powder,Smoke Screen,and a steal with no mug can do it….this is not about stealth it’s a p/d QQ thread . Even I found rangers with that rune+entagle strong it’s in no way broken..following logic nighmare,balthazar,perplexity,orr…..runes should do damage on their on proc conditions…how do I use a stealth skill and revealed at the same time?? Why should I be punished for dodging in SR when I traited Uncatchble…oh wait SR will reveal me!!!

QQ about the hated version of condi thief…moving on.

You and all the other pro-thieves in this thread are just reading things between the lines that simply aren’t there.

1) I understand thieves get a lot of flack on the forums from players who don’t understand how stealth works, or how to counter thieves.

2) I also understand that there is an immense number of players who patrol the forums waiting for someone to complain about thieves, so that they can chime in and protect their favorite pvp class.

3) This isn’t a qq thread about thieves or stealth. (I don’t know how you got p/d out of any of this) This is a thread about the mechanics of a rune, which is able to bypass the basic mechanics of revealed/stealth functionality.

4) There are indeed a few classes which in my opinion can utilize the krait runes more efficiently than a condi thief, but again they are not the ones abusing stealth/revealed mechanic, and it is irrelevant to this thread.

5) Your complaints about other thief mechanics have no weight here. Feel free to make your own thread complaining about how you feel certain aspects of thief need to be buffed and carry on the discussion elsewhere.

Would a change to mechanics, causing stealthed players to become revealed after triggering the 6/6 effect of these runes, even relate to what you people are ranting about?

Again…

Sorry your class gets hit with the nerf bat a lot, but half of you have probably never actually even seen these runes in action on a thief, let alone use them yourself.

You are all arguing your points based simply on the premise that “thieves are going to get another nerf.”

To be honest, they have a right to complain seeing as how most of the nerf thief threads for the past 6 months have been frivolous using emotionally sensitive words to garner support, just like this one.

There is nothing being abused here since the way the thief and krait runes were designed was a design decision made by the anet devs.

So again… bring more condition cleanse, play the class and build yourself or stop playing PvP if you have issues with a design decision.

yolo swaggins.2570:

To be honest, they have a right to complain seeing as how most of the nerf thief threads for the past 6 months have been frivolous using emotionally sensitive words to garner support, just like this one.

There is nothing being abused here since the way the thief and krait runes were designed was a design decision made by the anet devs.

So again… bring more condition cleanse, play the class and build yourself or stop playing PvP if you have issues with a design decision.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but what is happening here is people are automatically jumping on one side of the argument because of the thief’s track record of complaints and nerfs.

By the same token, I am completely free to state my own opinions I have about this particular combination. I have played quite a bit of sPvP, and I have come across many players running krait runes. There is no doubt that is a strong rune set and it is rising quickly in popularity.

Half of the people responding in this thread are the people I described earlier, scanning the profession balance forums for threads about thieves. Without even knowing what the threads are about, they are jumping into these threads and posting insulting and off-topic responses in an attempt to dissuade players from claiming anything related to thief anywhere in the game is overpowered.

Getting slapped in the face with krait 6/6 without ever even seeing your opponent is unfair….

You have nothing to do at that point but waste a condition removal skill or eat the damage and heal. Against a player running condition dmg, a big part of winning the fight is knowing when/how to save or use your condi clears.

Rune of the krait has a(n almost) unique mechanic where you need to stand very close to your opponent for the effects to occur.

Against other professions, you can keep your distance if you are careful, and the enemy player must close in on you to even have the runes 6/6 effect be of any use.
Despite many of you jesting about “only three conditions,” these conditions pack quite a punch when applied by a player running full condi.

I would compare it to messing around with a rattlesnake irl, you won’t get bitten if you keep your distance.

With thieves, it can often times be hard to keep your distance due to shadowstepping, but it is still possible to punish an enemy thief for getting too close, or landing an attack from stealth (because they are revealed).

With the current functionality of the runes, thieves can stealth, move in, activate 6/6, and leave without ever even being seen.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…

With the current functionality of the runes, thieves can stealth, move in, activate 6/6, and leave without ever even being seen.

And not kill you – Provided you were at decent amount of health… and not already dieing from a previous fight.

Again you seem to be focusing on just that little scenario…
Does anything happen beforehand?

Also, you’re doing exactly the same thing you’re saying yourself… trying to discriminate the opinion of others based on something completely irreverent in order to defend yourself/your belief/your claim. If only you spent time actually spelling things out with what’s wrong with the rune and thieves instead of trying to throw mud at thieves sticking up for their class… MAYBE we (the community) would get somewhere and perhaps I wouldn’t have added you to the nerf wish list (my jar of tears).

TheBlackLeech.9360:

stuff

And? The whole design of the profession is based around stealth.

Every nerf thief thread I have read on these forums boils down to the OP’s hatred for stealth “spam” or “abuse” with a side of “exploited mechanics”. All of them always having no basis beyond "A thief (killed/trolled/ran away from) me in (sPvP/WvW) using (insert game mechanic). Please nerf (stealth/mechanic interaction).

Then Anet changes the mechanic regardless on how it affect the profession or the players who play it. But problems still persist because stealth spam/abuse still exists. Finally… some player, at some point, is going to find another reason to remove some sort of advantage that vet thieves bust their kitten to find. The threads start up again, people of the same mentality follow suit and the cycle starts over again.

Now, I am highly uncomfortable with taking sides because butting heads almost never solves the problem. However the problem isn’t so much the profession or the mechanic of stealth but the ignorance of the playerbase and the toxicity they generate within the community who then throws it down into the thief forums turning it into a cesspool of trolls (no offense to the thief community) some time WAY before I joined.

And because of it, I am sickened and disgusted at the general community’s inability to do some research or request help from the very thing they hate. I mean they BEG players to ask for help… yet it never happens.

Do you understand why I do this?

yolo swaggins.2570:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

stuff

And? The whole design of the profession is based around stealth.

Every nerf thief thread I have read on these forums boils down to the OP’s hatred for stealth “spam” or “abuse” with a side of “exploited mechanics”. All of them always having no basis beyond "A thief (killed/trolled/ran away from) me in (sPvP/WvW) using (insert game mechanic). Please nerf (stealth/mechanic interaction).

Then Anet changes the mechanic regardless on how it affect the profession or the players who play it. But problems still persist because stealth spam/abuse still exists. Finally… some player, at some point, is going to find another reason to remove some sort of advantage that vet thieves bust their kitten to find. The threads start up again, people of the same mentality follow suit and the cycle starts over again.

Now, I am highly uncomfortable with taking sides because butting heads almost never solves the problem. However the problem isn’t so much the profession or the mechanic of stealth but the ignorance of the playerbase and the toxicity they generate within the community who then throws it down into the thief forums turning it into a cesspool of trolls (no offense to the thief community) some time WAY before I joined.

And because of it, I am sickened and disgusted at the general community’s inability to do some research or request help from the very thing they hate. I mean they BEG players to ask for help… yet it never happens.

Do you understand why I do this?

I understand, because I do the same.
The majority of my posts on these forums are to stop people from complaining about frivolous things or things they do not understand.

Players who are complaining about something are almost always outnumbered by players who are happy with the way things currently are, but the happy players are just too busy enjoying themselves/playing the game to think about coming to the forums and defending something.

Trust me, I know… and I’m not saying its a bad thing.
Coming into a thread with the mentality “I gotta go save thief from another nerf.” is what I’m a little put off about. It is not necessarily you who is doing this, but I’ve responded to a few posts in this thread so far, and many of them are just arbitrarily defending thieves without even paying attention to the topic at hand.

The way you need to fight against players running rune of the krait is the problem, and since thieves are able to completely bypass the “get close and get bitten” mechanic I have described earlier, it is overpowered.

Thieves also have a unique playstyle, which is not unbalanced in comparison to other professions, but does have advantages that needed to be paired with balancing mechanics in order to make them balanced with the other classes. Stealth and revealed for example… Without revealed, stealth would easily be overpowered.

Arenanet made it so that a player landing an attack from stealth is revealed.
We all know this.

How that relates to this discussion:
Thieves get the added benefit of bypassing the counterplay to the krait runes, by approaching in stealth…. and then get an additional benefit of not even being revealed upon the landing of the runes’ 6/6 proc.

The 6/6 proc of rune of the krait is more than powerful enough to constitute itself as a landed attack, and thieves are revealed for landing attacks that deal far less damage than the 6/6 rune of the krait does.

The fact that it does not actually count as an attack, and allows thieves to completely bypass the counterplay associated with this rune set and their class (getting revealed on attack) is what makes it unfair.

The rune’s 6/6 proc should count as an attack, and reveal the user if it successfully lands on an opponent.

On a related note:
Weapon swapping sigils which apply conditions reveal stealthed players applying them to an opponent

Players using these mechanics are knowingly doing so to deal condition damage while bypassing the revealed mechanic, and I feel that it is an oversight that the runes to not function the same way the sigils do.

Nothing is being abused here. The 6th effect doesn’t deal direct damage and therefore doesn’t reveal. This is consistent with caltrops and traps that also don’t do direct damage.

Your argument is normative — you think the 6th effect should do direct damage. However, you probably think that because of how imbalanced P/D condi teefs are in general.

There’s nothing wrong with krait runes and stealth, and I doubt there would be any complaint about a mesmer, ranger, or engi proc’ing the effect while stealthed. The rune only becomes problematic in conjunction with the insane condi pressure and high survivability that P/D condi teef already has. The problem is P/D condi — not krait runes, stealth, or the combination of the two.

Condi Thief is the lamest spec you can play by far ! No skill but Condi Thief…….

As others have said, it’s not just the krait runes, it’s all effects that apply conditions without dealing direct damage. Thief steal traited with confusion, poison, stealth, and blind on stealth contributes to this as well.

Just wait until more thieves figure out how to use Withdraw with Balthazar runes…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Half of the people responding in this thread are the people I described earlier, scanning the profession balance forums for threads about thieves. Without even knowing what the threads are about, they are jumping into these threads and posting insulting and off-topic responses in an attempt to dissuade players from claiming anything related to thief anywhere in the game is overpowered.

If you have an opinion on the topic, share it. Beyond that, please stop making blind accusations, and inflammatory statements. I don’t know why you feel your opinion is more important then anyone else opinion, but when you attack those who disagree with, and attack them in this manner, your hurting everyone, and making a mockery of yourself, please stop. No one has to answer to you for their reasoning to post on any thread.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Getting slapped in the face with krait 6/6 without ever even seeing your opponent is unfair….

For someone who went on a rant about posters being entitled their opinion, you sure like to state yours, as if it were fact, and in a factual manner. What I believe you meant is “it is your opinion that it is unfair.”…………….I almost never play a thief, but I find conditions ridiculously easy to deal with personally. In my opinion, this is a petty complaint, that borders baseless, in my personal experience. I do not feel that thieves are particularly over powered. I might go as far as to say they are very strong in a 1v1 situation, but I couldn’t care less about 1v1 situations.

I think it’s a creative use of that rune’s bonus.
The conditions that it gives for use of elite to me just aren’t strong enough to do anything but control an opponent. Venoms are kind of okay, but bonuses like this really up their value as an elite skill. The rune’s conditions aren’t burst at all. I don’t think thieves need to be revealed through it. It’s just another way to control constantly healing and kiting opponents like warriors, rangers, eles and engies.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been killed by it before in PvP, but I just thought it was really cool condi pressure since thieves are kind of a slave to power burst until they maybe get their traps buffed. Not saying there aren’t condi thieves, just these krait runes add to build diversity. I don’t want any class to feel pigeonholed into a small pool of builds.

I actually hope necros get more build diversity soon as well.