Is it intended that this turret be destroyable by opposing players or should it just be made invincible?
To clarify the frustration, engi’s are getting smart with their turret builds, and leaving a thumper turret in the middle of points, and the constant cripple every 3 seconds for 3 seconds is a challenge to deal with especially vs speedy kits.
They’re also leaving these on free cap points, which can be frustrating as well since if you try to destroy it you’re losing health and there’s plenty of time for a thief to spike you while you try to wail away on the turret. It’s also not helpful when the engi triggers the overcharge from wherever he is so you are CC’ed when a thief engages.
The turret only has a 240 range. You simply have to attack it from outside that range and it can do nothing to you.
Turrets have poor toughness and very low health. They are easily destroyed.
Thumper turret has 11k Health. Should not be very difficult to spike it down. The self heal of this turrent is really low. And the turret has a cooldown of 50sec. So this should not be an issue.
Thumper Turret does have 11950 HP (the most HP of any Engineer Turret), and can be traited to take 33% less damage. If traited with Experimental Turrets, it also gives Protection to its allies.
It also has a very, very short range, even with Rifled Turret Barrels, and is a Turret – part of a skillset which has drawn ‘They just don’t live long enough’ complaints for as long as I can recall.
There, a little of both sides.
If they’re getting smart, get smarter. Know what it can do, and figure out how to counter it.
I think the only real annoyance about something like this is that the Engi can leave turrets then run all the way across the map and then when you go to cap the point his thief friend shows up and its a 1.5 v 1. Besides that, turrets still have loads of issues of their own.
Thumper turret has 11k Health. Should not be very difficult to spike it down. The self heal of this turrent is really low. And the turret has a cooldown of 50sec. So this should not be an issue.
Can’t crit them, if I could crit them I’d take them down twice as fast
I think the only real annoyance about something like this is that the Engi can leave turrets then run all the way across the map and then when you go to cap the point his thief friend shows up and its a 1.5 v 1. Besides that, turrets still have loads of issues of their own.
Like when enemies use them to absorb projectiles if you swap to your ranged weapon? Not even talking about the bubble trait
On a serious note, has anyone found a good build on any profession to counter turret engi’s 1v1?
On a serious note, has anyone found a good build on any profession to counter turret engi’s 1v1?
I found well Necro poops on turret engi’s pretty well, because the turrets won’t try to avoid the AoE. Basically any build that can just crap out AoE and murder the turrets very quickly does well (think: anything that counters MM, but knowing that Engi’s “minions” are completely immobile and basically all have to be on point).
I think the only real annoyance about something like this is that the Engi can leave turrets then run all the way across the map and then when you go to cap the point his thief friend shows up and its a 1.5 v 1. Besides that, turrets still have loads of issues of their own.
But the thing is, yes the engineer can leave his turrets on a point and then go for another point, but then if the engineer himself encounters a roamer it will be a 0.5vs1. Having your turrets at another point is worthless if you aren’t giving backup to an ally on that point with them (turrets don’t hold points and are easy to take down without the annoyance of the engineer) and even if so its a rather risky move since you will be easy prey to anyone cutting you off (meaning you essentially have to cap points no one is defending or even in proximity to).
And its hardly the only way to be at two places at once in this game, look at traps or banners or portal.
Turrets are extremely trait heavy, requiring you to spend a lot of points buffing them instead of the engineer. You can do hybrids but either you loose out on damage or defense.
On a serious note, has anyone found a good build on any profession to counter turret engi’s 1v1?
Yes, not fighting 1v1. It helps versus pretty much any frequently “criticized” spec, because it actually shifts combat into the area it is balanced around.
Now before you say “But but, I have to fight 1v1 at times”, that is true, but you should avoid the situation as long as necessary. Much like in any format larger than 1v1 (that is, all of them), you should never ever try to fight fair because you’re just risking things.
In other words versus that Turret Engi, someone to heckle the engi, someone to burn the turrets, team up and kill the Engi. Then go to the next enemy silly enough to fight 1v1, and unless they’re communicating extremely well you’ll kill both faster than if you had split up and fought individually.
Like when enemies use them to absorb projectiles if you swap to your ranged weapon? Not even talking about the bubble trait
Body blocking is good play. I don’t think it’s reasonable to try to change it without reducing the skill cap.
Like when enemies use them to absorb projectiles if you swap to your ranged weapon? Not even talking about the bubble trait
Body blocking is good play. I don’t think it’s reasonable to try to change it without reducing the skill cap.
I’m very much not a fan of AI in PvP, so if an engi could summon a sandbag wall or something to eat some projectiles for them, I’d feel pretty good about it. It’s that turrets have AI, they last as long as the engi is alive, and aren’t squishy like illusions on a shatter mesmer. I’m largely okay with shatter mesmer builds, the design of AI around that is solid imo, but that’s really the only AI I’m okay with in PvP.
The Turrets have AI? News to me, tbh.
They should try to remove all AI from PvP if possible (for mesmer it is not possible I guess). But bring new and more AI to PvP is not a very good idea
The difference being that clones and phantasms can move , do not limit a profession with one weak weapon set base with dedicating his utility bar to take them, scale with stats, can crit (even clones can be offensive with bleed on crit or other condis like on staff) and in the case of phantasms deal massively more damage than turrets, can be traited for summoning on frickin dodgeroll on a profession with no lack of vigor (and stealth, invulnerabilities, teleports, blocks and boons, but thats mostly not ai related. Most of them.), are also used for offence and defense through the mesmers traits and shatter and have generally low recharges when it comes to phantasms (instead of that stationary thumper turret on the point that got 50 seconds cooldown after its destroyed or picked up. Oh and they can be traited for retaliation loveliness en masse. And a mesmer stealthspamming with clones and phantasms causes way more clutter on the point than simply picking out the engineer from his stationary low profile turrets.
The thing is im okay with this on mesmers, its the mechanic they are built around, but complaining about turrets as the arch villain of the AI animalfarm looks ridiculous if you are completely fine with phantasms and clones. turrets are a part of the engineers mechanics as well, namely they are supposed to reinforce the engineer while defending an area at the cost of making him very, very stationary and removes a huge deal of his utilities helping him to survive and or kill. Up until the recent patch most people didn’t consider turrets worth the sacrifice given that offensively you didn’t earn much or anything as you would often kill people faster by traiting for grenades or bombs and defensively you loose a lot of good skills as well. Utility and support wise you didn’t bring much to the table either. There was little to no reward for exposing yourself like turrets did by making you worse at about everything with the extra of being immobile and easy to counter by killing the mechanic you traited like crazy for. The exception to this was the buffed healing turret, offering both team support, utility and generally excelling as a healing skill. This was not because it was used like a turret, more like a healing bomb, there was zero incentive to leave it out, limiting counterplay by killing it.
Now after the patch why are we trying out turrets? Added utility. The team support we lacked can now be achieved by traiting for experimental turrets, a tree that also helps us defensively. The reflection trait allows us to use our turrets as a low recharge reflect if we just pick them up as soon as the reflect is over. With the APT trait now being adept (instead of IP being adept, remember that) we can actually take it when we dedicate ourselves to making the turrets worth having. Or if you don’t play with turrets viable on point, traiting into tools instead to throw fragile rocket turrets into sneaky places is an alternative to that.
(edited by miriforst.1290)
I love the hate turret engies are getting now.
Requiring 8 trait points to hit what is complained about here (and an additional 2-6 for one of the other two traits) you would expect turrets to do -something-. Once you choose turrets, they are your everything. Their utility is mixed: 4-6 blast finishers, a fire field, a projectile finisher, a stunbreaker/stability source, a smoke field, and a water field, along with damage, cc (hard or soft), and 1 condition.
But, there’s drawbacks. You’re immobile, your turrets cannot overcharge without a target (making survivability against stealth classes more difficult with flame and thumper), your skills have long cooldowns (20-50 seconds, with no reduction trait), you cannot fight off point, and you’re reliant on buggy AI.
If your argument is too strong a presence on point, then use range to harass. The engy will have to either pick up their turrets, leave the point to chase, or lose the turrets. If you’re a melee only build, then don’t fight a turreteer solo.
For ai presence, every class has some sort of AI controlled pet, with the excception of warrior. Eles have their elementals, Mesmers have clones and phantasms, Necros have minions, thieves have thieves guild and ambush trap, rangers have pets and (arguably) spirits, engies have turrets, and guardians have spirit weapons. Arguing for the removal of all of these is a bit ludicrous, but asking for them to be comparable to each other makes sense.
Mes, thief, necro, ele, and engy are in relatively good spots, with the ele being the weakest. Ranger relies heeeeavily on his pet, which means its poor ai and still somewhat bad response times weaken the class, but it’s mostly good. Guardian with spirit weapons is basically unused, either because other skills are much better for the class or the weapons are ineffective (I can’t say which for sure, as the two problems are somewhat linked).
As for turrets being “new” AI, they’ve been in existence since launch, and have always been partially effective. They’re just more reliable now.
Final point, on topic, thumper turret has high health, but is possibly the most valuable turret on a turret engy. It is the only one that can physically deny an area to an enemy by throwing them far away, but it also requires you to be within range, meaning it’s the most susceptible to simply being ranged down. It was given higher health to compensate for its short ranged attack. Does that make sense?
I’m only okay with Illusions on a shatter Mesmer. Building for tankier phantasms is something I have a lot of contempt towards.
Thumper turret I especially dislike for the reasons initially mentioned. The shorter duration and less impact A I has in a match the happier I am.
Turrets are actually the only balanced AI type skills in the game. Spirit weapons aren’t because they are actually useless, which isn’t balanced.
They should try to remove all AI from PvP if possible (for mesmer it is not possible I guess). But bring new and more AI to PvP is not a very good idea
Where are turrets AI? The thing can’t hit the broad side of a barn and has about 0 targeting logic?
Where are turrets AI?
Right there with Spirit AI.
Quick question.
Turrets are immune to crits and immune to conditions.
Good or bad design? It’s changeable, I think; the boss in new Queen’s Pavilion is vulnerable to condis and crits. JW what people think.
(edited by Sarrs.4831)
Quick question.
Turrets are immune to crits and immune to conditions.
Good or bad design? It’s changeable, I think; the boss in new Queen’s Pavilion is vulnerable to condis and crits. JW what people think.
If they did change that it would need to be accompanied by a (slight) increase in health I think, but its definitely something to consider.
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