Guild Wars 2

So here’s the problem with condition builds. To fight against them, you require multiple, if not all condition removals available to beat them. I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to, but I feel forced to take Well of Power, Shrouded Removal, Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark and Consume Conditions to beat condition builds, which it does. I can spam condition removal all day.

Now, when I fight a POWER build? I have to play skillfully. I have to avoid their attacks and time skills properly. I don’t have to take every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind available to deal with them. I am a necromancer who can only use a sigil of energy for an extra dodge. That is enough to be able to fight power builds.

That is the problem. You require every condition removal there is to fight condition builds. You don’t require every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind to fight power builds.

Condition spam is over the top. Nerf the spam and then nerf the amount of removals so that lesser condition classes can become viable.

Zefrost.3425:

So here’s the problem with condition builds. To fight against them, you require multiple, if not all condition removals available to beat them. I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to, but I feel forced to take Well of Power, Shrouded Removal, Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark and Consume Conditions to beat condition builds, which it does. I can spam condition removal all day.

Now, when I fight a POWER build? I have to play skillfully. I have to avoid their attacks and time skills properly. I don’t have to take every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind available to deal with them. I am a necromancer who can only use a sigil of energy for an extra dodge. That is enough to be able to fight power builds.

That is the problem. You require every condition removal there is to fight condition builds. You don’t require every source of protection, weakness, vigor and blind to fight power builds.

Condition spam is over the top. Nerf the spam and then nerf the amount of removals so that lesser condition classes can become viable.

First are we in pvp or www?
You are a necro your high pool of HP make up for power or crit dmg every class is affected by it example guardian and ele major cleansing low HP pool.
Conditioners have to deal with your dmg to survive ever wondered how the opponents feels?

How much toughness do you have? The more toughness you have the weaker you are playing against conditions since you are wasting a stat and delaying the fight which is in their advantage. Even if you stack some toughness, it should not be that much of a problem, since you need around 2320 armor to make an opponent’s basic scepter bleed scale better with condition damage then an axe auto attack scales with power.

No, you dont need all condition removel skills as power necro to beat condi builds.

Zefrost.3425:

I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to.

Then how do you claim to know what they can or cannot do?

Because I have over 2500 hours on my necromancer and that statement refers to WvW. Questioning my credibility is just laughable and off topic.

No.
You will not beat a condition necromancer as a power necromancer of equal skill if you lack condition removal. Nor will you beat a condition class of equal skill, as any power build on any class, if you lack condition removal.

Nor is this thread even about necromancers. It is about condition spam which engineers, necromancers, thieves and some ranger builds have far too much of. I know many of you think you should simply add more condition removal to classes, such as engineer (which is wrong and is more power creep) but that’s not how you balance a game.

To balance a game, you nerf stuff, you don’t buff everything.

I know you’re a good necro player, but you don’t need that much condi removal for a single opponent. That is enough to take on more than one condi build with everything a necro can potentially do with conditions.

What you’re describing is completely dominating a condi build, not just winning the fight. It’s be like fighting with a power build abainst something that combined a bunker guardian and an s/d thief because they are practically immune to damage with that kind of mitigation.

Consume Conditions is enough to beat a condition build of any profession in my experience as a Power necro (and I run primarily Knight’s gear, which is terrible for the task!). Other cleansing options just make it easier.

So no, you don’t need to max on cleansing to win. You just need to play smarter. Especially as a necro because they are naturally very resilient to condition damage even before accounting for cleanses (Life force gain is not reduced by poison, for example).

If Consume Conditions is enough condition cleanse you must be fighting the worst players on the planet. Literally any scrub can just spam 1 on Necro Scepter and get a consistent 8 bleeds on someone if their only condi clear is on a 25 second CD

to balance a game you nerf stuff not buff? how about buffing all the kitten thats worthless maybe we could get other builds that might solve your problem without making current builds stronger.

Elitist.8701:

If Consume Conditions is enough condition cleanse you must be fighting the worst players on the planet. Literally any scrub can just spam 1 on Necro Scepter and get a consistent 8 bleeds on someone if their only condi clear is on a 25 second CD

And? Those are auto-attacks. If you’re trying to avoid everything from auto-attacks, then you, my good sir, are the scrub. That’s just dumb play.

However, it does explain a lot as to why you fail so hard against condition builds.

Why do I not have an issue when using Consume Conditions as my only cleanse? Because I don’t think I have to keep myself totally free of conditions to beat them. I only cleanse when they’re problematic. Bleeds and poison are rarely worth cleansing as, against many necro builds, those are only damage (Poison doesn’t reduce Consume Conditions’ heal, which is frequently the only source of healing in the build) and damage you can just heal back or absorb. Saving cleanses for weakness, chills and immobilizes is far more important as those can severely limit your survivability.

Elitist.8701:

If Consume Conditions is enough condition cleanse you must be fighting the worst players on the planet. Literally any scrub can just spam 1 on Necro Scepter and get a consistent 8 bleeds on someone if their only condi clear is on a 25 second CD

I can auto attack for the same amount of direct damage with many build on many professions and the damage is applied instantly. What makes it so strong when a build does the same amount of damage, yet takes 5-15 seconds to do it?

8 stacks of bleeds on a typical 2100 condition damage build does less then 1200 damage per tick.

Most auto attacks in power builds can do that and more.

Why do people feel they MUST cleanse those bleeds , complaining they do not have enough cleanses to do so when the power damage is doing more damage in the same period of time?

Part of the issues with necro and cleanse conditions is many rend to rely on that skill for both heals and cleanses. If they are low on health and use it to heal then they have just blown their cleanse. If that is to be their only cleanse then they will have to be very careful when they use it.

The dynamic of that skill and its effectiveness will change drastically in any given battle given the number and type of opponent. Face a combination of a condition user and a power user and it very often will not be enough. This does not mean conditions are overpowered or too easy to spam.

Other classes will very often need to rely on sources of cleanse other then their heals. This means the heal available when they need it. A necro has that larger health pool and can afford to just take the damage for a longer period of time.

Half the reason I pack condition removal is that, if I don’t, Power builds destroy me by bursting while I’m Immobilized.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Elitist.8701:

If Consume Conditions is enough condition cleanse you must be fighting the worst players on the planet. Literally any scrub can just spam 1 on Necro Scepter and get a consistent 8 bleeds on someone if their only condi clear is on a 25 second CD

And? Those are auto-attacks. If you’re trying to avoid everything from auto-attacks, then you, my good sir, are the scrub. That’s just dumb play.

However, it does explain a lot as to why you fail so hard against condition builds.

Why do I not have an issue when using Consume Conditions as my only cleanse? Because I don’t think I have to keep myself totally free of conditions to beat them. I only cleanse when they’re problematic. Bleeds and poison are rarely worth cleansing as, against many necro builds, those are only damage (Poison doesn’t reduce Consume Conditions’ heal, which is frequently the only source of healing in the build) and damage you can just heal back or absorb. Saving cleanses for weakness, chills and immobilizes is far more important as those can severely limit your survivability.

Finally some sense is this thread. When a necromancer complains about condition damage, no matter if he himself is power, condition damage or hybrid, than something is really wrong. Necromancer is probably the profession with the easiest to control access to ultra potent condition cleansing.

I myself tend to have a 2nd condition cleanse on my necro (Staff #4), but that’s about it and it works perfectly.

I dont understand teh ones claiming the meta is condi in WvW. In spvp, i just don’t know.

I roam a lot in wvw with different condi build : warrior, engi et mesmer and right now i am having fun with a pure mesmer shatter dps build (funnier than pu mesmer condi). I dont have any cleanse et it is just working nicely. I rarely meet condi ennemy and if I die, i know it is because i dont have any cleanse. I could have 6 cleanse every 10 s if I want to but i made the choice to get 2 others dps traits.

If power build has been nerfed, there is a reason….. I fear more thief (8500 BS + 5000 HB) than an engi…..

This thread is pointless. Of course, you need to have cleanse to deal with condi build…. Of course you have to get vit and toughness against power. And it is very, very stupid to think avoid condi and avoid power is different ! It is juste the same ! Position, moving, dodging, blind, aegis, block !

An ele with 40% cond reduction duration is unkillable with a condi build.

Azzan.1650:

I dont understand teh ones claiming the meta is condi in WvW. In spvp, i just don’t know.

I roam a lot in wvw with different condi build : warrior, engi et mesmer and right now i am having fun with a pure mesmer shatter dps build (funnier than pu mesmer condi). I dont have any cleanse et it is just working nicely. I rarely meet condi ennemy and if I die, i know it is because i dont have any cleanse. I could have 6 cleanse every 10 s if I want to but i made the choice to get 2 others dps traits.

If power build has been nerfed, there is a reason….. I fear more thief (8500 BS + 5000 HB) than an engi…..

This thread is pointless. Of course, you need to have cleanse to deal with condi build…. Of course you have to get vit and toughness against power. And it is very, very stupid to think avoid condi and avoid power is different ! It is juste the same ! Position, moving, dodging, blind, aegis, block !

An ele with 40% cond reduction duration is unkillable with a condi build.

You could have seen me. You know why i run this food (broken like +condi dur)? Because everyone playes condi (not like u say)… Other thing is remembering that condi builds are tough. I play mainly with ele and can do with condies because of that, but other proffessions – nope. Also I’m playing with condi thief to see difference – and there is. Condi builds are high reward/low risk builds. I can facetank with thief cause of dire set, and kill some enemies in 5 sec, fight multiple enemies and spam to death.

I can defeat multiple opponents on my Power Mesmer too, if they are bad…

I do not believe in a condition meta, because I see no evidence for it. When I roam, I am fighting ones in a while a condition build, but they are not the majority of players I meet. In this forum some people claim there would be a condition meta. But in this forum also Necromancers claim to have insufficient condition cleanses…

Rudy.6184:

Azzan.1650:

I dont understand teh ones claiming the meta is condi in WvW. In spvp, i just don’t know.

I roam a lot in wvw with different condi build : warrior, engi et mesmer and right now i am having fun with a pure mesmer shatter dps build (funnier than pu mesmer condi). I dont have any cleanse et it is just working nicely. I rarely meet condi ennemy and if I die, i know it is because i dont have any cleanse. I could have 6 cleanse every 10 s if I want to but i made the choice to get 2 others dps traits.

If power build has been nerfed, there is a reason….. I fear more thief (8500 BS + 5000 HB) than an engi…..

This thread is pointless. Of course, you need to have cleanse to deal with condi build…. Of course you have to get vit and toughness against power. And it is very, very stupid to think avoid condi and avoid power is different ! It is juste the same ! Position, moving, dodging, blind, aegis, block !

An ele with 40% cond reduction duration is unkillable with a condi build.

You could have seen me. You know why i run this food (broken like +condi dur)? Because everyone playes condi (not like u say)… Other thing is remembering that condi builds are tough. I play mainly with ele and can do with condies because of that, but other proffessions – nope. Also I’m playing with condi thief to see difference – and there is. Condi builds are high reward/low risk builds. I can facetank with thief cause of dire set, and kill some enemies in 5 sec, fight multiple enemies and spam to death.

Yes condition spec are easier, i dont deny it. I believe you if you meet more condi but it is not my case. I see many thief d/p, d/d, s/d solo roaming.

Zefrost.3425:

I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to

I don’t blame you, you would get wrecked by hambows.

Waffler.1257:

Zefrost.3425:

I have never played condition necromancer because I refuse to

I don’t blame you, you would get wrecked by hambows.

That’s true.

My terrormancer wrecks hambow

TyPin.9860:

My terrormancer wrecks hambow

Acutally most necro builds can wreck a warrior if they have the space to kite and survive the berzerker stance. It may take a while though and one mistake can kill you pretty fast.

Well unless the warrior has -condi duration food + melandru runes + dogged march + cleansing ire. Then he is nearly impossible to kite with cripple chill etc…

remove condi caps (allow multiple people to burn the same target, no 25 bleed cap etc)
but make it effected by damage reduction effects like toughness, protection, armour etc.

this would benefit everyone, people would finally be able to use condis in wvw and pve where the caps have previously made it a bad choice,
and in Spvp we might finally get to see something other than burning, bleeding and poison on the death breakdown!

edit, poison would still need a cap on the healing reduction, but the damage could still stack.

Liewec.2896:

remove condi caps (allow multiple people to burn the same target, no 25 bleed cap etc)
but make it effected by damage reduction effects like toughness, protection, armour etc.

this would benefit everyone, people would finally be able to use condis in wvw and pve where the caps have previously made it a bad choice,
and in Spvp we might finally get to see something other than burning, bleeding and poison on the death breakdown!

edit, poison would still need a cap on the healing reduction, but the damage could still stack.

First of all caps are not a balance decision just a technical necaissity.

Also making conditions be reduced by toughness would be a bad idea since not only would vitality lose all meaning as a stat (toughness is better in every way), it would make toughness the best stat in the game. Also it would be logical to assume that damage boosters would affect condition damage (could be fun with traits like close to death and target the weak).

In PvE nothing would change since conditions would still be the lower dps choice, with dot as an extra demotivator. In WvW conditions would still be useless due to the massive amount of aoe cleansing. And in Spvp is it only logical that bleeding , burning and poison be at the top since those are the damage of all condition skills combined are used while the direct damage is spread over different moves.

Tim.6450:

in Spvp is it only logical that bleeding , burning and poison be at the top since those are the damage of all condition skills combined are used while the direct damage is spread over different moves.

i mean seeing things like 10k+ bleed, 10k+ burning etc
these are not freak occurrences, and most of my chars are glass cannons too so its not like i’m staying alive for along time, its usually 1 heals worth of time.

on my bunker which is specced for crazy condi cleanse (shouts+soldier), condis are still the only thing that kills me, and when i see the breakdown it makes me facepalm, things like 30k bleed..

i agree fully with the OP that without condi-clears you will just melt.
even if you bring one condi clear you’re doomed, you need several.
its not the case with direct damage builds which can be mitigated.

The issue is that application is too easy and that there’s not enough removal for all build paths/classes.

Removal should be more accessible in the heal skills – If you dodge a physical damage skill/burst but still get hit with a few follow up attacks and low-tick condis, you’ve successfully mitigated the major damage, and have the capacity to heal out of it.

Healing skills should be reworked remove DoT conditions as well as other condition effects (per skill), such that the current ones are removed, for dodging the condi bomb but still getting hit with the few follow-up ticks is often enough to kill you without extra removal. The healing still applies and the battle outcome is no different, as the damage-based character can still DPS, and the condi build can still apply more DoT effects with relative ease.

This makes the matchups more interesting, too, as then squishy characters can now counter-play condi bunkers through skilled play, and utilities can be adjusted to account for a lower demand for condi-removal utilities, opening up other gameplay doors.

The dependency on condition clearing is just too high for some classes/builds to the point that it inherently makes them less viable across all game modes. Putting DoT removal on heal spells would significantly equalize the two build choices and make matchups more fair and skill-oriented.

That doesn’t are any sense. How is condition application any more or less easy then direct damage application?

If you fight against someone using direct damage, do you expect to block/evade all attacks.
Because only that is the equivalent of cleansing all conditions.

If you can cleanse all conditions at all times something is broken even ele has to take the damage at some point. Every class has a heal that can cleanse other than mesmers but they have a lot of traits to make it up but almost no one uses them anyway….
Dealing with conditions builds is not cleansing it’s preventing the more dangerous stacks and landing your damage only cleanse when it will do more damage then what you can deal or if you have low hp what you can handle.

In some cases condi build might be better for 1v1 but guess what game is not balanced around that. In group play power specs are stronger and power builds do more DPs.

Much easier to spike down target with a couple of power spec rather than condi spec. That’s why you see top teams run power over condi.

Liewec.2896:

Tim.6450:

in Spvp is it only logical that bleeding , burning and poison be at the top since those are the damage of all condition skills combined are used while the direct damage is spread over different moves.

i mean seeing things like 10k+ bleed, 10k+ burning etc
these are not freak occurrences, and most of my chars are glass cannons too so its not like i’m staying alive for along time, its usually 1 heals worth of time.

on my bunker which is specced for crazy condi cleanse (shouts+soldier), condis are still the only thing that kills me, and when i see the breakdown it makes me facepalm, things like 30k bleed..

i agree fully with the OP that without condi-clears you will just melt.
even if you bring one condi clear you’re doomed, you need several.
its not the case with direct damage builds which can be mitigated.

This again?

Quoted from before:

“No, the tick is only generated once a second otherwise 68 ticks of bleed dealing 32k damage on your screenshot would mean 500+ damage individual bleed ticks.
According to how bleed “scales” : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding that is impossible.

You did spend 68 seconds bleeding.
All of your examples seem to involve at least over 30 seconds in a fight, a pretty long time for GW2 pvp standards. Especially considering how much longer the fight could have taken with periods without any conditions on you because of cleanses.

You may be dying solely to conditions, but it’s taking a hell of a long time for that to happen."

TL;DR – It took over 30 seconds of uncleansed conditions and attacks to kill me, OP OP nerf nao, whine, cry.

Wait, so you mean you can’t 100% negate someones entire build with just 1 clease utility?

That’s strange, because being able to do that sounds completely fair and balanced.

Why do people apply the same flawed logic over and over again. Dodging the physical hard hitters and dodging the condi spikes has the same result. Condition spikes don’t need to be always dodged, blocked, invulned or what not. Sometimes it’s enough to walk out of the red circle. And don’t come me with AA condition spam. That still does less DPS and often less damage over all, than physical AA spam. Poison from Necro AA might be a bit strong against anyone who relies on constant healing, but this is a balance issue, that has to be discussed on its own, and is no indicator of overpowered and passive “condition spamming” across all professions.

BTW: If the application of conditions are passive, then so is physical damage. Because both require the same “passiveness”. Hit and apply damage…
And don’t come with passive condition application from runes, I can easily counter this by Superior Rune of the Golemancer, Superior Rune of the Lich, Superior Rune of the Pirate, Superior Rune of the Ogre and Superior Rune of the Mad King who summon npcs, that constantly attack you for considerable amount of damage over the time of their existence…

dancingmonkey.4902:

That doesn’t are any sense. How is condition application any more or less easy then direct damage application?

It’s not. That’s my whole point. What I’m saying is that because application is so easy (in the sense that there is nothing special one has to do to get conditions stacked on his enemy), just healing from the damage taken from the start of combat to when you have healed is not enough, because conditions last through healing unless either those healing skills have a cleanse built into them, or people have traited for cleansing.

So a direct damage character hits you, and you heal off the damage taken and can re-engage the fight without worrying about bomb damage and cooldowns.

A condition damage character hits you, and you not only need to heal from the DoT’s, but also need to cleanse conditions to remove them to prevent taking damage beyond your healing skill.

So you avoid the condi bomb on one character and the burst on another… great. The problem with conditions is that you’re still needing to sacrifice more utility to mitigate the damage than a physical damage player. Additionally, conditions are applied at full damage even when the caster is affected by weakness, and both reflection and retaliation do not apply to conditions, meaning there are even fewer ways to mitigate or counteract the damage dealt by condition users.

Meanwhile, condition damage users also only have to rely on one/two stats for optimized damage throughput while comparable physical damage builds rely on two/three for damage, making condition builds inherently more durable and subsequently easier to play and more forgiving while demanding stricter counter-play for effectively the same result.

Condition overload has also led to the reason as to why guardians are so good in PvP environments due to their removal potential via light fields, especially when combined with more players. If light fields were removed from the game, every single WvW zerg would be exclusively condi overload and healing spring rangers. As it stands, heavy CC and mass cleansing are what make successful group builds in such environments. It’s not about damage but about kit utility and lockdown on certain weapon sets.

By removing the condi DoT effects through heal spells, the builds reach closer balance and become more equally relevant while allowing room for growth and expansion on the skills themselves for better balance of conditions in general in various forms of play, as then the DPT could possibly increase for certain applications.

DeceiverX.8361:

So a direct damage character hits you, and you heal off the damage taken and can re-engage the fight without worrying about bomb damage and cooldowns. A condition damage character hits you, and you not only need to heal from the DoT’s, but also need to cleanse conditions to remove them to prevent taking damage beyond your healing skill.

oh and you dont need to do anything to prevent taking direct damage after you healed?
asking for a general cleanse on heal is like asking for immunity against direct damage after a heal.

Additionally, conditions are applied at full damage even when the caster is affected by weakness

sigh Thats the kittening point of conditions. While conditions are not affected by weakness, armor and protection, they are also not affect by vulnerability or all the %-based damage modifiers that you can find everywhere.

both reflection and retaliation do not apply to conditions, meaning there are even fewer ways to mitigate or counteract the damage dealt by condition users.

Retaliation applies to condition-applying attacks as it applies to every other attack. A Condi-build will take the same retal-damage as a power-build when both when they attack the same amount of times. What is your point? are you seriously suggesting that every tick should trigger retaliation?
Same goes for reflection. Condition-inflicting projectiles can be reflected just as well as those that dont.

Meanwhile, condition damage users also only have to rely on one/two stats for optimized damage throughput while comparable physical damage builds rely on two/three for damage, making condition builds inherently more durable

Well, since you cant burst someone down but have to wait for your dots to tick, of course conditionbuilds need to be more tanky. If Condibuilds need more stats, noone would play a condition build, since it would be as glassy as a power-glass cannon but just take longer to kill an enemy.

Contemplation of Purity to remove 6 conditions, second or two later I again have 6 condition again.

Contemplation of Purity to remove 6 conditions, second or two later I again have 6 condition again.

You realise that this doesnt mean kitten without any context whatsoever, right?

I know right? I hate when I heal and people just keep attacking me. It’s like they don’t understand that me healing is the equivalent of calling a time-out and they should just stop attacking until I feel comfortable about taking damage again.

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s not. That’s my whole point. What I’m saying is that because application is so easy (in the sense that there is nothing special one has to do to get conditions stacked on his enemy), just healing from the damage taken from the start of combat to when you have healed is not enough, because conditions last through healing unless either those healing skills have a cleanse built into them, or people have traited for cleansing.

So a direct damage character hits you, and you heal off the damage taken and can re-engage the fight without worrying about bomb damage and cooldowns.

A condition damage character hits you, and you not only need to heal from the DoT’s, but also need to cleanse conditions to remove them to prevent taking damage beyond your healing skill.

I don’t see the point. If someone hits you for 10K in power and you heal 5K isn’t that the same as receiving 10K in conditions and heal 5K whalfway and while still receiving 5K from the resting ticks?

I have the feeling that those, who oppose condition damage in it’s current design, will never come up with coherent, not self defeating arguments. I mean, it is damage over time. A 10k physical damage attack after application can only be healed, while 10k condition damage can still be cleansed after application and healed.

It being damage over time makes it necessary for condition builds to have a higher survivability. And glass cannon builds, who mostly lack in armor, have also no disadvantage against condition damage by having low armor, because for condition damage only HP count. Low toughness is of no importance to the glass cannon (if not thief or ele full glass) in a duel against condition builds, while the high power DPS can still very easily go through the fairly high armor of the condition build. The so often proclaimed toughness sacrifice of many glass canon builds is no sacrifice against condition damage builds. If the condition build is a real tank (not all condition builds are, and high toughness without defensive sustain don’t make you a tank) than it does laughable damage.

Also that application of condition damage is still an attack (in most cases) and thus triggers retaliation and, if being a projectile, also can be reflected. Those condition stacks don’t come out of nothing or aren’t caused by the mere presence of a condition user. Please think your arguments through, unless it is your aim to bore or annoy people from this forum with ignorant posts, leaving only the condition damage opposition here to eventually convince ANet.

i like the guy who got hit by fire 61 times and complained that he died from it

Nick.6972:

Contemplation of Purity to remove 6 conditions, second or two later I again have 6 condition again.

My Sigent of Stone protects me from all damage, but as soon as it wears off I get hit for 15k?!

Tim.6450:

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s not. That’s my whole point. What I’m saying is that because application is so easy (in the sense that there is nothing special one has to do to get conditions stacked on his enemy), just healing from the damage taken from the start of combat to when you have healed is not enough, because conditions last through healing unless either those healing skills have a cleanse built into them, or people have traited for cleansing.

So a direct damage character hits you, and you heal off the damage taken and can re-engage the fight without worrying about bomb damage and cooldowns.

A condition damage character hits you, and you not only need to heal from the DoT’s, but also need to cleanse conditions to remove them to prevent taking damage beyond your healing skill.

I don’t see the point. If someone hits you for 10K in power and you heal 5K isn’t that the same as receiving 10K in conditions and heal 5K whalfway and while still receiving 5K from the resting ticks?

The problem is that it isn’t comparable damage. The DoT effects from condis are usually higher than the skills that cast them or comparable skills.

I.E., my condi thief can deal 30k-40k damage from relative safety every few seconds while my stab thief can deal around 20-30k damage on the same rotation, assuming the target is built squishier, meaning those figures can go as low as 15k for the whole combo.

Meanwhile the condi build is running almost four times the effective health, and that damage can’t be mitigated by counterplay or other stats (so you’re consistent and don’t need to get good at picking fights) except from the odd block or removal for the first few hits.

The damage throughput for the amount of removal available is just too high. This is why either ticks need to be affected by a stat (not so good for PvE/would make builds much more linear), or healing skills should affect the DoT ones, and the DoT ones could be slightly buffed per tick to compensate, also appealing to PvE players.

DeceiverX.8361:

The problem is that it isn’t comparable damage. The DoT effects from condis are usually higher than the skills that cast them or comparable skills.

I.E., my condi thief can deal 30k-40k damage from relative safety every few seconds while my stab thief can deal around 20-30k damage on the same rotation, assuming the target is built squishier, meaning those figures can go as low as 15k for the whole combo.

Meanwhile the condi build is running almost four times the effective health, and that damage can’t be mitigated by counterplay or other stats (so you’re consistent and don’t need to get good at picking fights) except from the odd block or removal for the first few hits.

The damage throughput for the amount of removal available is just too high. This is why either ticks need to be affected by a stat (not so good for PvE/would make builds much more linear), or healing skills should affect the DoT ones, and the DoT ones could be slightly buffed per tick to compensate, also appealing to PvE players.

First please show some sort of proof when you claim something, otherwise we can make up anything we want.

Secondly, it does not change a point to the fact that the damage is the same and should be treated a such. The only thing you highlighted was the difference in skills/builds. Then you need to look at the skills/builds and not conditions in general.

Liewec.2896:

that 10k physical becomes far less after armour and defence are taken in to account.
as a bunker that 10k will hit you for around 50% less and thats just from passive toughness.

please show me where I can get around extra 1804 toughness in a build. That’s needed to halve a physical attack in a light armor class from passive toughness.

Liewec.2896:

while the condition damage will always be 10k regardless of what armour, defence, protection and other damage mitigation you have.

Unless the player uses a cleanse and/or equips -condition duration.

plus the condition spam will most likely reduce that 5k heal to a 3350 since there are very few times when poison isn’t mindlessly spammed all over the place.

This has nothing do the with the difference between conditions and power since power builds can easily take up poison as well.