Guild Wars 2

Cleansing Ire is a very hotly debated topic and what most people consider be one of the traits that take Warriors over the top in sPvP. A lot of people have been arguing for how OP it is as a trait and alot of people have been arguing that without it, Warriors would not survive the condition meta. In which I can kind of understand both sides.

I don’t really want to get into any debates of whether Cleansing Ire is OP or UP, because that isn’t even the main issue with this skill. I hope I speak for many warriors when I say that I absolutely dread having to immediately lock 20 points into defense just to survive the condition meta times.

In my opinion, the two main issues with this skills are.

1) It is pretty much mandatory for any competitive build.
2) It makes certain weapon sets less viable almost purely because of it.

So let me explain my position on this. Starting with the first point.

1): As you know, Cleansing Ire requires an investment of 20 points into defense to unlock the trait. This trait allows the removal of conditions per bar of expended adrenaline. So if you have 3 bars of adrenaline when you use the burst, you remove 3 conditions. Burst Mastery makes this work a bit different, but that is besides the point. This trait is mandatory for I feel 2 reasons. Firstly, we are in such a heavy condition based meta that warriors are constantly worried about how they are going to cleanse conditions. Secondly, outside of this trait, we lack reliable sources of condition removal that are actually viable in a competitive scene. It is a powerful and reliable source of condition removal yes, but if we simply had better, more viable options it wouldn’t be such a mandatory trait. It also has a nice little bonus of gaining adrenaline on hit so one can use their burst skills more often.

2): Secondly, why are any weapons that aren’t a longbow or a hammer not being used in PvP? It is through a combination of reasons, from being bad burst skills to begin with, single target, hard to land, easily countered, etc. But most importantly, it is probably because of CI. CI, paired with any other weapons do not provide reliable condition removal at all and if a Warrior is focused, he won’t be able to use the burst mechanic for condition removal. Since Hammer Burst is an AoE that hits 5 targets in a sizable radius, it isn’t too difficult to remove conditions. Longbow is also an AoE, except that it doesn’t even need to hit any targets for the effect. And there you have it, 50% of the reason why hambow builds are being used almost exclusively in competitive PvP.

So let us talk about what other sources of condition removal that a Warrior has (besides cleansing ire) and put it into context with the current meta.

Mending - While removing 3 conditions every 20 seconds certainly doesn’t seem bad at all. The healing on this skill is atrocious and does not nearly give us the sustainability needed to survive in PvP. Healing Signet provides that sustainability, which is why Mending is simply not a viable alternative for condition removal.

Shake it Off - Aside from it being a valuable stunbreaker every 25 seconds and curing conditions on allies. It only cures 1 condition .... every 25 seconds! In this condition based meta, this is absolute garbage.

Warhorn - Now, I like the concept of the warhorn, being a very team-oriented weapon. However, it only removes chilled, cripple and immobilized. This hardly is helpful in dealing with conditions such as burning, bleeding, torment, poison, weakness, confusion, etc. That, and the Warhorn lacks in any offensive output. Now, you could trait to convert conditions into boons with the warhorn, but that requires a heavy investment which may kitten your DPS quite a bit.

Signet of Stamina - This honestly isn’t a terrible utility, besides the fact that it is 45 seconds for a full condi wipe. You could trait into signet mastery, but 36 seconds still still quite a lot.

Shout/Soldier Runes - Pffft, please, just .... no.

A warrior, being that in your face type of class that doesn’t have a whole lot of dodging, in-combat mobility, stealth, AI, boons, etc, kind of really depends on having good, reliable condition removal. This is made painfully obvious if you rewind back to 8 months ago. Even with Cleansing Ire, they weren’t really very viable at all, but of course there wasn’t really any hambow build. Healing Signet was what allowed them to shine because they finally got some sustainability to compliment it. People need to realize when warriors were at the bottom of the barrel in competitive PvP, that Condition Removal and Sustainability were often cited as the root of all their problems. Yes they have the highest HP/Armor, good mobility, great DPS, good amounts of invulnerabilities, very high CC, cleave which seems all good and OP on paper. But despite that, without good condition removal and sustainability, they were nothing but an afterthought.

So what have we learned and what can we take away from this post? Well, allow me to make it clear.

- Cleansing Ire needs to be changed (to allow other weaponsets to be more viable and to make it less mandatory, not necessarily a nerf persay)
- Warriors have absolutely abysmal and non-viable inherent condition removal other than cleansing ire
- The condition meta needs to be revised and reconsidered

These changes can entail buffing other sources of condition removal, changing the functionality of Cleansing Ire in terms of burst, perhaps splitting the adrenaline on hit and condition removal portion and adjusting them accordingly.

I really hope the Devs read this thread and really take a thoughtful, objective look on Cleansing Ire and see how it is impacting build diversity and making the necessary changes.

any thoughts about cleansing ire?

dear killahmayne,

as a casual warrior player myself, yes i agree hammer and long bow are best weapons to benefit from cleansing ire.

as for the other weapons, ugh.

i think cleansing ire is fine as it is though.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

dear killahmayne,

as a casual warrior player myself, yes i agree hammer and long bow are best weapons to benefit from cleansing ire.

as for the other weapons, ugh.

i think cleansing ire is fine as it is though.

No he have a very good point. Currently, CI is mandatory in EVERY competitive pvp build. You simply cannot do anything without it against opponents with meta builds (ofc you can find someone terrible, rely on teammate support, or simply be lucky few times, but this is exceptions).
This is clear sign about something very wrong happening with pvp meta.

Rednik.3809:

No he have a very good point. Currently, CI is mandatory in EVERY competitive pvp build. You simply cannot do anything without it against opponents with meta builds (ofc you can find someone terrible, rely on teammate support, or simply be lucky few times, but this is exceptions).
This is clear sign about something very wrong happening with pvp meta.

oooo !!! okies Rednik errr then how do we attempt to fix this situation then? O_O

CI is product of condition bunker meta, so we need alternative.
1. Every class without reliable power based damage-dealing spec should get buffs to power-crit talent trees and weapons.
2. Condition-removal buffs for everyone. You must be able to live against condition bunkers as power-based spec without being roflstomped by 100500 conditions.
3. Switch majority of CC abilities to knockback/fears instead of immobilize/stuns. “Stay here while I’m kicking your kitten ” is cheap concept.
4. More boon removal across all classes (with compensation like more HP for guardian and reverting nerfs for ele).
This will switch meta closer to balanced state.

I don’t like the idea of such traits in general. They’re too passive in that you want to spend the adrenaline anyhow.

I like passive traits if they add flavour, like the Engi -100% Expertise on incoming conditions below 25% health. That’s significant, and not as passive in that it triggers in a crucial moment only.

But this is… meh. I just dislike the overall design. I don’t mind the power so much, I don’t really care about sPvP enough to care about it’s balance.

Although I agree with your points, IMO 90% of the problem, not 50, is the condition meta. We are not viable without CI, because conditions rule. Yet, we get a direct damage nerf.

FACTS:
1. Cleansing Ire has a cd of 7-10 seconds depending on your investment into discipline.
2. It need to have adrenaline expended, ie. the burst skill needs TO HIT.
3. It can be countered by blinds, any block, evades, as long as the skill does not hit.
4. Aside from sword and bow, cleansing ire is not very reliable on other warrior weapon sets.

Guardians with the purity trait lose a condition every 10 seconds rain or shine NO MATTER WHAT. With signet of resolve make that 2 conditions.

Rangers. Empathic bond. Again every 10 seconds, as long pet is alive (which is pretty much all the time in pvp unless it walks into multiple aoes) they lose 3 conditions. Again, no matter what.

I dont get why people complain about warriors that needs active skill usage instead of those classes that are passive?

Warriors have trouble with conditions outside of Cleansing Ire? The Warrior apologetics are getting bolder, lol.

@ OP – I’ve noticed you left Berserker Stance and Runes of Lyssa in tandem with a traited Signet of Rage out of the equation. That’s… an impossibly massive oversight because you’re trying to analyze where Warrior stands when dealing with conditions in the current meta.

@ Everyone else that claiming Warriors would be lost at sea without Cleansing Ire – Log a Mesmer, or Engineer into the game and note how unforgiving it is when you make a positioning mistake and get conditions on you. Lyssa runes on a 48s cd, and Berserker stance is enough to make anyone spoiled.

sPvP Warriors have room in their build to run a utility of your choice, entirely. This is assuming Balanced Stance and Berserker’s Stance are mandatory. Load up on a second stability, bring Fear Me, Bulls Charge, or bring the Signet of Stamina. Warriors often don’t even do this, despite it being an extremely good option because the time to kill a properly played warrior with conditions is by far the longest in-game.

Here’s an example of a totally top tier, viable Warrior build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJASTjkOpwxQCPMxBE0DNsK4C1D7YDjjUBxA-TwAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYJyBiHEA

A full condi wipe on a 36s cooldown (Signet of Stamina), and a 48 second cooldown (Lyssa runes), 8 seconds of condition immunity at will, 25,512 HP, very strong sustain (in the realm of 550 per second – like, 33,000 per minute lol)

Let’s be real here, if you just cycle your cooldowns properly as a Warrior playing a typical tPvP build, it hardly matters how many condition users are attacking you – you will be able to face-tank any amount of conditions for about 20 seconds and walk out with high HP if that is your goal. Full condition wipes are convenient like that.

After the cooldowns are spent, it’s probably time to stop going ham with impunity and back off a bit? You are regenerating massive amounts of HP and you don’t have to sit in Hammer all day.. I think that Warriors are way too forgiving of bad positioning already.

For the poster above me – people complain about Cleansing Ire even though it’s active usage, vs. Empathic Bond’s passive usage, for example, is because choosing when to fire Combustive Shot means you get to actually remove conditions at the precise time when you want to. This is worth thousands of HP in those times where your ‘Purity’ or ‘Empathic Bond’ ticks are cleansing you when you don’t have many/any conditions.

For all the other posters after the OP, saying that Cleansing Ire is highly counterable with blinds, dodges, etc – The reason why the OP made this thread is due to the nature of Cleansing Ire when used with Hammer or Longbow. Good luck trying to deny a Hammer/Longbow Warrior any Cleansing Ire procs. As soon as his Combustive Shot is aimed at the ground, your options to stop the War from wiping conditions are pretty slim (absorb or reflect a projectile not aimed at you?). Cleansing Ire has very little counterplay, despite what Warrior Apologetics claim because the entire community has moved to the weapons that have difficult to counter burst skills.

Cygnus.6903:

Although I agree with your points, IMO 90% of the problem, not 50, is the condition meta. We are not viable without CI, because conditions rule. Yet, we get a direct damage nerf.

Please keep in mind that that’s small-scale only. In group++ warfare, zerg warfare and PvE, conditions are ~useless due to easy of access of cleanse respectively summed eHP respectively stack-limits.

Chaith.8256:

Warriors have trouble with conditions outside of Cleansing Ire? The Warrior apologetics are getting bolder, lol.

Getting so tired of posts like these.

Didn’t you notice the huge contradiction in your post? Saying warriors have trouble with conditions outside of CI is false, then posting the only viable high lvl PvP build we have, which includes CI………………….. Take it out, and we get absolutely facepalmed by conditions, lyssa/SoS or not.

Weak rant.

Carighan.6758:

Cygnus.6903:

Although I agree with your points, IMO 90% of the problem, not 50, is the condition meta. We are not viable without CI, because conditions rule. Yet, we get a direct damage nerf.

Please keep in mind that that’s small-scale only. In group++ warfare, zerg warfare and PvE, conditions are ~useless due to easy of access of cleanse respectively summed eHP respectively stack-limits.

Agree. Then again, balancing large scale battles is not the issue here, and is an entirely different discipline.

Cygnus.6903:

Getting so tired of posts like these.

Didn’t you notice the huge contradiction in your post? Saying warriors have trouble with conditions outside of CI is false, then posting the only viable high lvl PvP build we have, which includes CI………………….. Take it out, and we get absolutely facepalmed by conditions, lyssa/SoS or not.

Weak rant.

…

Of course Cleansing Ire is in the current build.. you’d be insane not to, with how overpowered it is (which isn’t the purpose of this thread, or my post).

However, the point of my post was to outline just how I am not any more shafted than other professions when dealing with condition burst when I’m on my Warrior – using abilities that are not Cleansing Ire. In a hypothetical scenario, more along the lines of what I’m speaking of, where Warriors had never had the option of Cleansing Ire, I know they’d still be desirable, and NOT getting ‘absolutely facepalmed by conditions’ like you say. Try focusing down something with an 8 second immunity through Berserker Stance and an average of 2.92 full condition resets per minute, through Stamina & Lyssa. How little emphasis can there possible be on actually avoiding conditions as a Warrior instead of just powering through them with condition removal?

Just what do people think is an acceptable level of defense vs. conditions?

Playing scrims against Denshee (who I consider to be one of the best Wars) on his Hambow, who plays it extremely efficiently, makes a full team’s condition pressure look like a mild allergic reaction.

My point is that condition resilience on Warrior has crept up way past the par for profession-wide condition resilience. Ranger being the only exception:

Good DPS Guardian builds, meta Engineer builds, good Mesmer builds, meta thief builds, good Elementalist builds…. all of these professions operate with a much shorter time until death from conditions compared to a Warrior – even without Cleansing Ire traited.

Maybe that’s a contributing fact as to why a huge portion of those above mentioned professions have been pushed out of the Meta?

cleansing ire is useful, but far from overpowered.

if cleansing ire is truly overpowered, warriors will not need berserker stance at all.

massive conditions overload in a very short time frame will still burst down warriors very quickly.

fun fact, anet said long ago that conditions supposed to be warrior’s weakness but we know what happend

i play my thief w/o any condi clear except for lyssa runes… current meta is indeed very painful

while i can’t stand warriors and found them easy to play (i play mine in wvw mostly) i do think condi meta itself needs to be nerfed before any condi cleansing traits/spells nerfs

the whole condi tank thing needs to go, you shouldn’t be able to build full tank and do silly dmg via condis

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Kind of speaks for itself doesn’t it???
Source
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

coglin,
that is still true. massive condition overload burst will still put down a warrior very quickly.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

cleansing ire is useful, but far from overpowered.

if cleansing ire is truly overpowered, warriors will not need berserker stance at all.

massive conditions overload in a very short time frame will still burst down warriors very quickly.

Cleansing Ire would need to be SO GOOD that you didn’t even need Berserker Stance for it to be overpowered?

That’s the same as saying: If the pre-nerf Shattered Strength for Mesmers (full might stacks on big shatter) was overpowered, then why aren’t Mesmers traiting out of Illusionary Persona and picking up something worse? Lol. It just doesn’t add up.

If the old Guardian block bug was overpowered, then why weren’t Guardians un-equipping all their armor, eh? Checkmate. Lol, I kid, I kid.

Things can be overpowered for many reasons… look objectively.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

coglin,
that is still true. massive condition overload burst will still put down a warrior very quickly.

Massive condition overload burst puts anything down. It’s just not okay if one profession is a huge outlier in the time-to-kill from condition pressure. His point was that it’s a big deal that this huge outlier is also the profession whose archetype was originally designed to be at an average or mediocre resilience to conditions.

Simular problem to the one rangers face. By far our best and most reliable condition removal is Empathic Bond, with is a GM trait in the condition damage/toughness line. Its the only condition removal that one it own can make a big impact and protect us from condition contantly, meaning virtually all range builds run it (or just accept they are weak to conditions).

Its really no wonder rangers like to run condition bunkers when we’re semi forced to trait 30 points into condition damage and toughness, same as how warrior are pushed into taking hammer + bow.

A strange vicous cycle where the best counters to condition builds generate yet more condition builds…

DuranArgith.1354:

Guardians with the purity trait lose a condition every 10 seconds rain or shine NO MATTER WHAT. With signet of resolve make that 2 conditions.

Mending has 271 HPS, while Signet of Resolve has 204 HPS (254 HPS if traited).
Mending cleanses 3 conditions on demand on a 20 second CD while Signet of Resolve removes one every 10 seconds as long as the heal is not on CD, which happens to be really high.
Honestly, Mending clearly outperform SoR both as healing and condition removal tool. This useless warrior healing skill outperforms even Consume Condtions whenever no more than 3 conditions are cleansed.

Purity is a nice trait, I agree with that. It can add a good chunk of sustain by removing some nasty bleed stacks or long lasting burning from time to time.
No sane guardian, however, will rely on Purity as the main form of condition removal.

Meditation offensive builds usually don’t slot it and invest 20 points in Virtues in order to have a 3 condition cleanse on demand (+ CoP is the enemy team is condition heavy) on top of Smite Condition.
Even as a bunker guardian (with A LOT of investment in party-wide condition removal), specially if playing 0/0/10/30/30, I have ignored it many times and picked Strength in Numbers instead when facing power damage based teams.

Warrior may need something like CI just for being viable, and somehow I guess we should thank ANet for bringing the warrior to the current state (CI + Berserker Stance + Lyssa many times), where he counters terrormancers, spirit rangers and no stun-break engineers to a good extent, saving us from the heavy condition meta we were in.
If some base condi cleansing was needed, however, they should have introduced it on a different fashion. There are still 3 unused F-keys available for warrior, enough for some built-in moderate condition removal to exist.
Some insanely powerful mandatory trait making every alternative (Mending, Shake-it-off, traited Warhorn, Signet of Stamina) look like a bad joke and unneeded for the most part is far from good design. When the trait favors some weapon choices, it gets even worse.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

dear killahmayne,

as a casual warrior player myself, yes i agree hammer and long bow are best weapons to benefit from cleansing ire.

as for the other weapons, ugh.

i think cleansing ire is fine as it is though.

Deimos, your opinion is extremely biased and it’s hard to take anything you say about warrior seriously. I’ve seen your post history, it is almost 100% blind defense of the current state of warrior without ever making any points or arguments backed up by fact.

Cleansing Ire should have some conditions removed from its cleanse – Poison and weakness most definitely, and perhaps some combination of blind/vulnerability/cripple. This would go a long way into tuning down how easy it is for a warrior to completely resist soft CC and help balance out how resilient HS warrior is (since you could actually keep poison on a warrior if CI wasn’t dropping it every 7-10s, HS’s only counter)

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

coglin,
that is still true. massive condition overload burst will still put down a warrior very quickly.

Massive condition overload will melt any class (accept necros) very quickly.
As much as i would love not be forced taking CI on my warr I just don’t see it happening. There are few viable builds for each class in this meta, and each of them is forced to some traits or skills.
At least CI is on master tier and on a good trait line, much better then rangers who are forced to ‘empathic bond’ which is on grandmaster…

So like ppl said, the issue is about condi meta, if toughness ment anything maybe we’d see players choosing between toughness or cleanses, right now if u have too choose the choice is obvious. (unless u play a condi bunker who gets to have it all..)

Chaith.8256:

Warriors have trouble with conditions outside of Cleansing Ire? The Warrior apologetics are getting bolder, lol.

@ OP – I’ve noticed you left Berserker Stance and Runes of Lyssa in tandem with a traited Signet of Rage out of the equation. That’s… an impossibly massive oversight because you’re trying to analyze where Warrior stands when dealing with conditions in the current meta.

@ Everyone else that claiming Warriors would be lost at sea without Cleansing Ire – Log a Mesmer, or Engineer into the game and note how unforgiving it is when you make a positioning mistake and get conditions on you. Lyssa runes on a 48s cd, and Berserker stance is enough to make anyone spoiled.

sPvP Warriors have room in their build to run a utility of your choice, entirely. This is assuming Balanced Stance and Berserker’s Stance are mandatory. Load up on a second stability, bring Fear Me, Bulls Charge, or bring the Signet of Stamina. Warriors often don’t even do this, despite it being an extremely good option because the time to kill a properly played warrior with conditions is by far the longest in-game.

Here’s an example of a totally top tier, viable Warrior build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJASTjkOpwxQCPMxBE0DNsK4C1D7YDjjUBxA-TwAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYJyBiHEA

A full condi wipe on a 36s cooldown (Signet of Stamina), and a 48 second cooldown (Lyssa runes), 8 seconds of condition immunity at will, 25,512 HP, very strong sustain (in the realm of 550 per second – like, 33,000 per minute lol)

Let’s be real here, if you just cycle your cooldowns properly as a Warrior playing a typical tPvP build, it hardly matters how many condition users are attacking you – you will be able to face-tank any amount of conditions for about 20 seconds and walk out with high HP if that is your goal. Full condition wipes are convenient like that.

After the cooldowns are spent, it’s probably time to stop going ham with impunity and back off a bit? You are regenerating massive amounts of HP and you don’t have to sit in Hammer all day.. I think that Warriors are way too forgiving of bad positioning already.

For the poster above me – people complain about Cleansing Ire even though it’s active usage, vs. Empathic Bond’s passive usage, for example, is because choosing when to fire Combustive Shot means you get to actually remove conditions at the precise time when you want to. This is worth thousands of HP in those times where your ‘Purity’ or ‘Empathic Bond’ ticks are cleansing you when you don’t have many/any conditions.

For all the other posters after the OP, saying that Cleansing Ire is highly counterable with blinds, dodges, etc – The reason why the OP made this thread is due to the nature of Cleansing Ire when used with Hammer or Longbow. Good luck trying to deny a Hammer/Longbow Warrior any Cleansing Ire procs. As soon as his Combustive Shot is aimed at the ground, your options to stop the War from wiping conditions are pretty slim (absorb or reflect a projectile not aimed at you?). Cleansing Ire has very little counterplay, despite what Warrior Apologetics claim because the entire community has moved to the weapons that have difficult to counter burst skills.

Lol @ this kid. I left Berserker Stance because it is NOT a source of condition removal and Lyssa runes is a RUNE not an inherent Warrior condition removal mechanic. And it is true, just look at warriors pre cleansing ire. You can’t deal with a good necro, ranger or engineer without it because of their ability to quickly put conditions on you. You are talking about condition wipes every 36, 48 seconds when conditions are put on you every second.

I think it’s fair that a class, which is somehow designed to have a weakness for conditions, has to spend 20 points into a defensive traitline to get cleansing. And it’s a pretty good cleansing trait after all. Almost every class has mandatory traits in each meta, cause that’s the way you adapt your builds in this game.

I wouldn’t mind if Cleansing Ire would be more viable for other weapon sets, but I strongly disagree in changing the trait position or adding other “better” options for the Warrior at the moment. Enough is enough, at some point. My main class is Mesmer, but I do have a warrior for PvP… both classes are designed to have a weakness for conditions, but if you compare the capability of dealing with them on those two classes… well.

Concerning condition bursts… pretty much every class has problems dealing with them. It’s better those are brought down before buffing any (or adding new) cleansing skills/traits to any class. Just my thoughts.

OH its not a condi clear but hey its a condi immunity. For 8 flipping seconds. That’s no big deal right? And lyssa runes wouldn’t be bad except warriors have one of the shortest CD elites in the game.

And LOL at all the warriors griping about their condition removal.

Go play a mesmer…. I would love love loveeeeeeeeee for shattered conditions to be moved down to a master tree (thus bringing it in line with CI). You would see the qq flow.

tetrodoxin.2134:

I think it’s fair that a class, which is somehow designed to have a weakness for conditions, has to spend 20 points into a defensive traitline to get cleansing. And it’s a pretty good cleansing trait after all.

This in itself is part of the issue, because many of the other professions do not have
a trait they can put 20 points or in some cases any points into for that high a level of cleanses.

I agree with OP.
CI right now is mandatory in this meta. And with 10% critical nerf in the future i´m not seing any viable warrior build without at least CI, HS and BS and maybe lyssa (dont know if they will nerf it). Conditions will be buffed even more in the future with that change.
Warriors want other viable builds to play without the need to take all those things.

Lets see if ANet will give us other builds (viable) to play.

2 words Diminishing Returns. I am still shocked this game doesn’t have any. 2 Biggest problems I see with wvw zerg pvp. 1) The insane amount of conditions applied by the zerg because of no diminishing returns. 2) The insane amount of cc applied by the zerg because of no diminishing returns. I strongly feel that either diminishing returns needs to happen or classes need much better condi cleansing and stability upkeep to combat the meta which is condis and cc.

killahmayne.9518:

Lol @ this kid. I left Berserker Stance because it is NOT a source of condition removal and Lyssa runes is a RUNE not an inherent Warrior condition removal mechanic. And it is true, just look at warriors pre cleansing ire. You can’t deal with a good necro, ranger or engineer without it because of their ability to quickly put conditions on you. You are talking about condition wipes every 36, 48 seconds when conditions are put on you every second.

I’m not even sure how to address this.. your post was supposed to be about how Warriors deal with conditions in the current meta. And because you mentioned me only as ‘kid’, I guess umad?

Is it relevant that it comes from a rune, or is condition immunity instead of condition removal? Not really – it’s viable, demolishes conditions, and used by absolutely every Warrior in tPvP. You will have a dam’ inaccurate view of how Warrior is performing vs. conditions if you refuse to take into account stuff like that..

coglin.1867:

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Kind of speaks for itself doesn’t it???
Source
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

I remember reading this and quit GW2 about a month later. When I came back last Oct I was shocked at the state of warriors.

The combined buffs to Cleansing Ire, Beserker Stance and Dogged March made in 2013 were clearly too much and against the classes original design philosophy.

evilapprentice.6379:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

dear killahmayne,

as a casual warrior player myself, yes i agree hammer and long bow are best weapons to benefit from cleansing ire.

as for the other weapons, ugh.

i think cleansing ire is fine as it is though.

Deimos, your opinion is extremely biased and it’s hard to take anything you say about warrior seriously. I’ve seen your post history, it is almost 100% blind defense of the current state of warrior without ever making any points or arguments backed up by fact.

Cleansing Ire should have some conditions removed from its cleanse – Poison and weakness most definitely, and perhaps some combination of blind/vulnerability/cripple. This would go a long way into tuning down how easy it is for a warrior to completely resist soft CC and help balance out how resilient HS warrior is (since you could actually keep poison on a warrior if CI wasn’t dropping it every 7-10s, HS’s only counter)

i actually wouldn’t mind that too much X D.