Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

Xaylin.1860:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I never said that Warriors struggle, just that they are hamstringed into have HS, a LB, 4 pts in Defense, and 3 in Discipline. There’s not a helluvalot of room for doing anything new or meta-breaking when you have so few options.

At the very least making Mending worth taking will allow for more DPS builds that don’t need any points in Defense.

Those weren’t exactly your words. But you said something comparable to it. At least I would consider dying because of not taking meta options as ‘struggling’. I do agree that the alternatives are weaker. There is no way of denying that. However, I disagree that all alternatives are as aweful as some people make them look. It is indeed regretable that so many classes are virtually forced into specific builds. But I doubt that simply buffing several skills will solve this issue for Warriors without harming the game balance and ultimatively the class itself.

For example: Mending. I already said I’m personally all up for a buff. I just don’t think the Adrenaline component you suggested is needed. However, would decreasing the cooldown to 15s actually help build diversity? Regardless of the healing value, it would still be at least 50% less efficient than CI when it comes to condition removal. People will still go for CI because a 4 point trait investment is extremly low for the benefit you can get. While some weapons offer better synergies than others (e.g. LB) CI still appeals to a broad selection of builds with different weapons. It also doesn’t require you to pick any additional utility skill. Even very offensive builds can afford that. Furthermore, you won’t be able to keep people from picking both at once because both, CI and Mending, are easy to access. In other words: Buffing Mending in the proposed way will most likely not promote build diversity but can potentially negatively affect game balance by providing Warriors with even more condition removal.

The suggested changes would open up options for more glassy Warrior builds. Right now, having to take that 4 points into Defense reduces the amount of points you could be putting into Strength and Discipline. If I wanted to run what would basically be a spike build right now conditions would just totally destroy me even worse than a Thief of Mesmer trying to do the same thing. However, with a worthwhile Mending I would theoretically be able to spike down my target before I got overwhelmed by condis because I would have my heal act as a cleanse without having to bring something like Signet of Stamina. It would also mean I wouldn’t have to bring a LB and could run something like Axe + GS and act as a roamer. Right now that build is “ok” but you have to put that 4 points into Defense, which means a Thief does the job better, which in my book makes it not viable. I added the Adrenaline fact because it’s supposed to be like Consume Conditions but for Warrior. Instead of healing more for each condition though, you gain adrenaline. That idea is why I decided that Healing Surge just makes more sense being a really simple burst heal. It’s the only way it will ever compete with Healing Signet. I refuse to believe that the current mechanic it has is good or “skillful.” I would only accept it if every healing skill in the game had similar risk-reward mechanics. So long as there are healing skills that are mostly reward with little risk the ones that are like Healing Surge will always be inferior and seldom used.

If Defiant Stance was a instant cast and was affected by Sure Footed I could also see some builds using Frenzy and actually being good instead of something that you use as a joke. The current 1/4th second cast time isn’t something that can really be interrupted and with a 35 second CD and with it showing big green numbers with a blue glow while in use being able to use it while being stunned/spiked seems pretty reasonable all things considered. It’s a heal that’s cool in concept but outside of a few situations it’s not worth using. I for one thing that all heals should be at least somewhat useable on every class. If done right we’ll see much greater variety than what we see now, especially in PvP.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The suggested changes would open up options for more glassy Warrior builds. Right now, having to take that 4 points into Defense reduces the amount of points you could be putting into Strength and Discipline. If I wanted to run what would basically be a spike build right now conditions would just totally destroy me even worse than a Thief of Mesmer trying to do the same thing. However, with a worthwhile Mending I would theoretically be able to spike down my target before I got overwhelmed by condis because I would have my heal act as a cleanse without having to bring something like Signet of Stamina. It would also mean I wouldn’t have to bring a LB and could run something like Axe + GS and act as a roamer. Right now that build is “ok” but you have to put that 4 points into Defense, which means a Thief does the job better, which in my book makes it not viable. I added the Adrenaline fact because it’s supposed to be like Consume Conditions but for Warrior. Instead of healing more for each condition though, you gain adrenaline. That idea is why I decided that Healing Surge just makes more sense being a really simple burst heal. It’s the only way it will ever compete with Healing Signet. I refuse to believe that the current mechanic it has is good or “skillful.” I would only accept it if every healing skill in the game had similar risk-reward mechanics. So long as there are healing skills that are mostly reward with little risk the ones that are like Healing Surge will always be inferior and seldom used.

The thing is that both Ether Feast and Consume Conditions are also the burst heal of the respective classes. I personally don’t understand why you’d like to move the Adrenaline part to Mending. It would just make Healing Surge a lot less appealing.

So basically you want to go 6/x/x/x/6 with probably something like Burst Mastery and Burst Precision? How do you expect to not be squishy in this scenario? How can you expect not to bring something like Signet of Stamina? How can you expect not to bring at least one defensive weapon set? You’re literally saying that you desire to go full offense without the expense of your defense. A single heal can’t compensate for the total lack of investment in defensive traits and utilities. That’s just unrealistic and most certainly has nothing to do with build diversity.

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Defiant Stance…

I’m sorry, but I don’t really get your problem with Defiant Stance. You said it yourself, the cast time already is incredibly low. Yes, instant would be easier. But not everything has to be that easy. Regarding Sure Footed, I actually never thought about it not affecting Defiant Stance. However, I would be afraid that ANet might reduce the baseline duration to prevent perma block/invulnerability builds which would make Defiant Stance useless without Sure Footed.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I for one thing that all heals should be at least somewhat useable on every class. If done right we’ll see much greater variety than what we see now, especially in PvP.

You are right about that. But Defiant Stance and Healing Surge are somewhat usable. You will never see a large variety in PvP when talking about a competitive environment because it is all about optimal choices.

They aren’t somewhat useable because NOBODY USES THEM. Even noobs quickly realize that they don’t live using the other 3 heals, especially in PvP. I can’t think of one good build that would use them.

Also, with a good Mending you could run something like this or possibly even this and have enough condi mitigation to kill your target before the conditions become a problem. Also, no one uses Burst Precision, it’s a worthless trait when Sigil of Intelligence exists.

Defiant Stance is a highly reactive skill. The cast time means you can’t pop it when you need it most, while being locked down or spiked. You also can’t use it while say using a Frenzied 100b or the like. The Defiant Stance + Frenzy synergy seems like a coll possibility but atm you can’t use it when you need it most.

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

sizer: almost every class can kill a hambow if played at proper level.
rom: sure if 10 noobs play together, ofc a hambow will own them.

now think again.

ohwait, you play wvw, i can’t believe you think warrior is over powered, because when i wvw, i go on my thief or engi, thief mostly, like it’s the most op roamer class in wvw period, even tho my main is war.
oh yea, i made an engi for wvw too, cuz TVC toooo goood.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, with a good Mending you could run something like this or possibly even this and have enough condi mitigation to kill your target before the conditions become a problem. Also, no one uses Burst Precision, it’s a worthless trait when Sigil of Intelligence exists.

Burst Precision could be an interesting decision when used with Sword Mainhand.

Sarrs.4831:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, with a good Mending you could run something like this or possibly even this and have enough condi mitigation to kill your target before the conditions become a problem. Also, no one uses Burst Precision, it’s a worthless trait when Sigil of Intelligence exists.

Burst Precision could be an interesting decision when used with Sword Mainhand.

The damage would still be pretty low unfortunately. It’s just not a very hard-hitting ability.

Simon.3794:

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

sizer: almost every class can kill a hambow if played at proper level.
rom: sure if 10 noobs play together, ofc a hambow will own them.

now think again.

ohwait, you play wvw, i can’t believe you think warrior is over powered, because when i wvw, i go on my thief or engi, thief mostly, like it’s the most op roamer class in wvw period, even tho my main is war.
oh yea, i made an engi for wvw too, cuz TVC toooo goood.

Yah Hambows must be so terrible, thats why they are so incredibly popular in high-skill teams.
Some teams even taking two.

Did you even watch the recent ToL? Its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, and you’re just making stuff up. So im done dignifying your nonsense with an answer.

BurrTheKing.8571:

They aren’t somewhat useable because NOBODY USES THEM. Even noobs quickly realize that they don’t live using the other 3 heals, especially in PvP. I can’t think of one good build that would use them.

My personal experience tells me otherwise. Of course, it might differ from your game exerpience. I quite frequently see people using Defiant Stance in WvW and for specific PvE content (mostly bosses). I also see people using Healing Surge, also in WvW and PvE. Sometimes having a burst heal is just a lot more valuable than constant health regeneration.

As for PvP, don’t even try. As I said earlier, it’s all about optimal choices. There will most likely always be one heal which performs best. Even if not, there most likely will be one build which is considered most efficient which then dictates which heal to pic. Don’t use a restricted 5 vs. 5 game mode (in a game with 8 classes…) as sole indicator for build diversity. PvP might be the center of many balance changes but it is not the only place to look at when it comes to build diversity.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, with a good Mending you could run something like this or possibly even this and have enough condi mitigation to kill your target before the conditions become a problem. Also, no one uses Burst Precision, it’s a worthless trait when Sigil of Intelligence exists.

And what exactly keeps you from ditching Bulls Rush for Signet of Stamina or something else? Nothing. Of course, those build will be better with Bulls Rush. But that is not the point. They will be fine without it. You still got enough mobility because of the GS. The Mace build still got enough CC to get along without it.

Regarding Burst Precision, I strongly disagree because they simply play differently. Sigils of Intelligence require constant switching while Burst Precision does not. You actually limit your gameplay if being forced to switch weapons just to be able to trigger the Sigil in time for your next, for example, Eviscerate. The trait might not be super flashy but it is far from useless. It also opens up your Sigil slot for something else (e.g. potentially even more damage).

People just don’t like thinking outside of their established habits. In this case: weapon swapping and the subjectively mandatory Fast Hands. I’m probably no exception, I guess. But I don’t get why so many people are so fast at disregarding traits and alternative approaches. There is a wide performance range between being meta and being useless.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Defiant Stance is a highly reactive skill. The cast time means you can’t pop it when you need it most, while being locked down or spiked. You also can’t use it while say using a Frenzied 100b or the like. The Defiant Stance + Frenzy synergy seems like a coll possibility but atm you can’t use it when you need it most.

Of course it is reactive. But making it instant cast takes away all the challenge of using the skill. It would be a free out-of-jail card regardless how much you probably screwed up with a minimal way for your foes to counter. How is that fun?

The combo you described should work anyway. You just have to change the order of your skills (Frenzy – Defiant Stance – 100b). Sure, having Defiant Stance being instant would be easier but I fail to see why such a skill combo shouldn’t require at least some skill to pull off. Pulling off a 1/4s heal with Quickness isn’t that difficult afterall. The Warrior already is one of the easier to play classes – if not the easiest. Why drop the skill floor even further?

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

sizer: almost every class can kill a hambow if played at proper level.
rom: sure if 10 noobs play together, ofc a hambow will own them.

now think again.

ohwait, you play wvw, i can’t believe you think warrior is over powered, because when i wvw, i go on my thief or engi, thief mostly, like it’s the most op roamer class in wvw period, even tho my main is war.
oh yea, i made an engi for wvw too, cuz TVC toooo goood.

Yah Hambows must be so terrible, thats why they are so incredibly popular in high-skill teams.
Some teams even taking two.

Did you even watch the recent ToL? Its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, and you’re just making stuff up. So im done dignifying your nonsense with an answer.

saying hambow is not op automatically means its terrible. bad players these days have some extreme mentality. you know both sizer and rom won EU ToL right?

oh wait, you don’t play pvp so i assume you dont give a thing, “i watched a bit ToL, i see 2 warrior in a team, it must be insanely OP.” gg thinking, you are smart.

I use defiant stance on my third warrior, it works quite nicely if you pick when to use it. High Risk, High Reward. I play a GS/ Sw+Sh with zerker gear/Ammy. HS does not help a lot of the time when you’re getting brunt of focus fire or expecting someone’s burst combo. Cycle through other stances and shield, you’ll be able to live for a decent amount of time when pairing mobility with it. Also allows you some breathing room to trade with people.

Also Mending with Restorative strength is essentially a full cleanse on a 20 second cooldown, which is really good.

The only heal that really needs help is Mending. If it was buffed up up to par with other heals it would open up more build diversity. I for 1 am tired of the mandatory 4 points in defense for a viable PvP build.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

The fact that even with the “nerfed” merciless hammer trait, strength runes, sigil of intelligence, and tons f easily stackable might warriors are still hitting 4-5k earth shakers (something my glass mesmer has a hard time pulling off in zerker gear but is still doable) and they are still extremely hard to kill thanks to you know the absolute highest armor in game and the second highest vitality in the game.

Warriors can do to much with too little effort. They have an effective build of everykind and every single one of their effective builds is still hard to kill (some harder than others.) and does absurd amounts of damage.

Lets not forget the ease that this class lets you play at.

Edit: Also warriors were sooo bad that they got buffed to absurdly OP status in just a few updates. And now over 9 months later they are still absurdly OP, and dominating EVERY single game mode. I can understand certain classes being more popular because of ease of play but they should not be effective at every single fracking thing.

@Xaylin.1860 What keeps you from subbing out Bull’s Charge for Signet of Stamina is obvious, 100b would be worthless without it. No Bull’s = no setup = the most damaging skill on GS is worthless. Try running that build without Bull’s and you’ll quickly find that your DPS isn’t all that amazing and the role would be better filled by a Thief.

I don’t PvE anymore but having a skill that is only used for a few encounters doesn’t make it sound all that great to me. I also don’t agree with what you said about PvP, there’s only 1 prefered heal because the other heals are under-preforming. A good Mending would allow Warriors to be the DPS roamer and Defiant Stance would let them be a spiker. Healing Signet being the only worthwhile skill means Warriors are encouraged to build so that they draw out the fight because that’s where they’re strongest, other heals don’t promote that as much.

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Xaylin.1860 What keeps you from subbing out Bull’s Charge for Signet of Stamina is obvious, 100b would be worthless without it. No Bull’s = no setup = the most damaging skill on GS is worthless. Try running that build without Bull’s and you’ll quickly find that your DPS isn’t all that amazing and the role would be better filled by a Thief.

Oh come one, that’s not even remotely true for the first build. There is so much CC due to using Mace and Shield. In the Axe build you trade CC for damage. Again: You can’t expect to have it all. The chain might be less frequent but not impossible since you still got your Shield stun. Even then I know from experience that skills like 100b still hit your opponent without a set up very frequently. You are always assuming the worst case scenario.

If you don’t feel that A/S + GS works without Bulls Rush in this scenario then you will have to make sacrifices elsewhere. That’s how most classes have to deal with stuff like this.

Xaylin.1860:

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Xaylin.1860 What keeps you from subbing out Bull’s Charge for Signet of Stamina is obvious, 100b would be worthless without it. No Bull’s = no setup = the most damaging skill on GS is worthless. Try running that build without Bull’s and you’ll quickly find that your DPS isn’t all that amazing and the role would be better filled by a Thief.

Oh come one, that’s not even remotely true for the first build. There is so much CC due to using Mace and Shield. In the Axe build you trade CC for damage. Again: You can’t expect to have it all. The chain might be less frequent but not impossible since you still got your Shield stun. Even then I know from experience that skills like 100b still hit your opponent without a set up very frequently. You are always assuming the worst case scenario.

If you don’t feel that A/S + GS works without Bulls Rush in this scenario then you will have to make sacrifices elsewhere. That’s how most classes have to deal with stuff like this.

Trying running either without Bull’s Charge. With the Skullcracker one, you need to force them to pop their counter measures as quickly as possible. Shield Bash and Bull’s are there to force them to use all their stun breaks/stability/invulnerability before going in for the kill. This is especially important when fighting Necros. The longer the fight against them drags on, the worse things are going to get for you. Signet of Stamina will only delay the inevitable. You also underestimate how slow and obvious Skull Crack is. Sure you can hit it without a setup, but then you run into the problem stated earlier that they’ll still have ways to break out. I’m actually starting to sacrifice DPS and dropping Runes of Strength for either Hoelbrak or Melandru.

As for the Axe build, I’d love to see how you could get a significant number of hits w/o using some sort of setup. Anything less than 4 hits and you might as well have been auto attacking. If someone is going to stand in that then the user wasn’t skilled, the other guy was stupid. If you can find me a recent video of a Warrior getting good hits with 100b on good players them maybe I would reconsider.

How many stunbreakers do you expect people to run? Most have one, some maybe two. Most of the time you probable need one successful CC to tease out their stunbreaker. Stability is only common among Warriors and Guardians. If you get a Ranger to pop his elite, good for you. The only issue might be invulnerbilities or blocks. But again, M/S has so many CCs that having Bulls Rush for CC purposes is most certainly not needed. Regarding Skull Crack I fail to see how it is ‘slow’. And please don’t tell me about the range or the animation. You harshly underestimate its speed and your foes reaction time. The casttime is so low that most active countermeasures outside of dodging or blocks take too long even when you recognize Skull Crack.

If Signet of Stamina would only delay the inevitable, so would your buffed Mending. And Necro neither has blocks nor invulnerbilities nor good access to dodges. His only advantage is his healthpool. He’s screwed against your CC in the M/S build. I’m not sure if that is a good example to make your point.

Regarding the Axe you are right. What does that tell us? Axe + GS are probably not the best combination when aiming at landing 100b in PvP. Is that a bad thing? Probably not. A good player should be able to avoid it. You are not always facing good players, though. Regardless, you can still hit people quite often due to the confined space on the cap points (yeah… probably not on the graveyard). Your argument only really holds when you are pushing for your build becomming PvP meta and therefore being relevant in top tier PvP. Which would also mean that it has to outperform the established builds. I can understand the despitement of people when asking for buffs with such a reasoning.

Axe still got enough offensive power on its own. Get Bulls Rush if you want to play it anyway. Sacrifice something else. Of course, you’re right that it is easier with Bulls Rush and I agreed from the start. But that is not the point. I’m not aruging wether it is easier with or without it. I’m arguing that you have to sacrifice something if you want it to be so easy to pull of 100b. Going all out offense has to come with a price for balance sake. Dropping Runes of Strength to get Hoelbrak or Melandru is exactly what should happen in a full out offensive build set up if you don’t want to be glassy or want some cherry ontop of it. Trade offs.

so basically you just want to make the other heals just as op or have no drawbacks to using them… ok

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

so basically you just want to make the other heals just as op or have no drawbacks to using them… ok

I dunno who said that, but mending has a cast time.

It’s also a fairly weak heal atm, making it basically cleansing ire with a heal attatched. I think most would agree to just get a trait and slot HS to get far better sustain.

I honestly think HS should suck without healing power, considering it has no risk to using it. If they wana build tanky, let it heal them for 450 a second as long as they invested a good amount of healing power. 360 forever every second with no cast time is just kitten when talking about viable alternatives.

For example, 280 base with a 0.2 healing power coefficient. Spec for healing power, lose the offense, but become very very durable. Builds with no healing power would basically so nty, and focus more on decisions than playing the role of a rock. But, they gata change mending and adjust defiant stance/healing surge for the offense spec’s or it would just be a flat out nerf across the board. Balance isn’t just flat nerfs :/

HS should never have been a fully passive heal. How the kitten would anybody be able to balance that kitten out and how would you make the active part of it ever worth using without making the whole kitten thing crazy OP?

Julie Yann.5379:

HS should never have been a fully passive heal. How the kitten would anybody be able to balance that kitten out and how would you make the active part of it ever worth using without making the whole kitten thing crazy OP?

i can balance hs quite easily.. make it only if the warrior is doing damage and put a 1s icd on it there it is balanced.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

Julie Yann.5379:

HS should never have been a fully passive heal. How the kitten would anybody be able to balance that kitten out and how would you make the active part of it ever worth using without making the whole kitten thing crazy OP?

i can balance hs quite easily.. make it only if the warrior is doing damage and put a 1s icd on it there it is balanced.

OK, but how would you make the active worth using without making the whole thing OP? that is the problem with a full time passive heal. The HPS is not the issue, it’s the fact that the passive does all the healing. There is no way of making the active part of it worth using when the passive does all the work.

I could see something like
Passive: Heals a small X amount (something like 100 hps) when gaining or spending adrenaline to help with sustain.
Active: A decent size X amount base heal + 10 to 15 seconds of regen for when you really require some healing (a total that would equal to somewhere around 400 to 450HPS)

This way to can tweak both sides of the signet to balance it out.

Julie Yann.5379:

HS should never have been a fully passive heal. How the kitten would anybody be able to balance that kitten out and how would you make the active part of it ever worth using without making the whole kitten thing crazy OP?

Uh, all signets have passive effects?
But I get what you mean. Maybe it should have been the exact inverse of Healing Surge. Heal passively based on missing adrenaline, active drains all adrenaline and heals according to adrenaline drained.

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

The fact that even with the “nerfed” merciless hammer trait, strength runes, sigil of intelligence, and tons f easily stackable might warriors are still hitting 4-5k earth shakers (something my glass mesmer has a hard time pulling off in zerker gear but is still doable) and they are still extremely hard to kill thanks to you know the absolute highest armor in game and the second highest vitality in the game.

Warriors can do to much with too little effort. They have an effective build of everykind and every single one of their effective builds is still hard to kill (some harder than others.) and does absurd amounts of damage.

Lets not forget the ease that this class lets you play at.

Edit: Also warriors were sooo bad that they got buffed to absurdly OP status in just a few updates. And now over 9 months later they are still absurdly OP, and dominating EVERY single game mode. I can understand certain classes being more popular because of ease of play but they should not be effective at every single fracking thing.

do you know how easy it is to avoid a earthshaker? like, super extremely easy. and
no it does not hit 5k, it hits 3k on light golem with 25 might and i don’t remember hitting any thing 5k with earth shaker, you hit 5k with backbreaker and fierce blow on crit ONLY, and normally if your earth shaker hit 3 targets (including clones, AIs, i know mind blown) your backbreaker and fierce blow won’t crit. get your fact straight next time.

what can a warrior do too much with little effort you tell me, because i’m obviously clueless, yea, a effective build for everykind, every kind of what, do you even play high level tpvp or nothing, sure, Rom goes axe/sword, but that’s far point dueling purpose, everything else other then hambow are either completely useless or just useless. if you see anything else being useful, that only means you are at low tier.

also, warrior were bad for half a year or even more, do you know how long is more then half a year? do you know how long is half a year? 12/2, how much is that? and how long have any class been that bad for, oh wait, there’s no class have been that bad yet.

" they should not be effective at every single fracking thing." are we trying to balance stuff or what, wth is this thinking.

“dominating EVERY single game mode” are you high?
warrior is only effective amount noobs in pve, pve is a dps game and an easy one, there are classes that out dps warrior by a lot and for a long time already and that’s the reason i use those classes instead of warrior if i play pve. if you are dieing a lot in pve, doesn’t matter what class you are, you are noob, that’s the button line.

“dominating EVERY single game mode” again
seriously? being OK and viable sure, but dominating? look at the point i made above and think, also whenever i want to play some wvw, i go on my thief or engi.

and tbh why a mesmer is complaining about warrior, at least my friend (mesmer) doesnt have problem with warrior at all, he only loses to warrior only if outskilled, what he complaints all day are thieves and those complaints are reasonable and that’s mostly why supcutie rerolled to thief, oh btw, hambow kill noobs easily, and noobs complain the most about hambow, says sizer, rom, well they didn’t say it but they generally think this way but phrased differently and they laugh at all your hambow complain threads in the forum.

Carighan.6758:

Julie Yann.5379:

HS should never have been a fully passive heal. How the kitten would anybody be able to balance that kitten out and how would you make the active part of it ever worth using without making the whole kitten thing crazy OP?

Uh, all signets have passive effects?
But I get what you mean. Maybe it should have been the exact inverse of Healing Surge. Heal passively based on missing adrenaline, active drains all adrenaline and heals according to adrenaline drained.

Neat idea, except thats basically mashing adrenal healing and inverse-healing surge together. They don’t need more adrenaline based effects in those places. Unless they turn the active to a mega heal and take increased damaged while casting it (like gw1) it’s almost impossible to make the active both unique and meaningful. The passive just needs to require investing, right now it takes no effort to make use of HS on any build.

I think Healing Signet needs an overhaul, really. Shy of that, reduced base value and increased scaling on the passive is a decent move that most people can agree would be good.

Another idea I just had:

Healing Signet
Passive: Increases all healing taken by 20%-40%.
Active: Heal yourself. Heals more the lower your health is.