Guild Wars 2

I’m just throwing out this concept.

My goal is that Anet will bring warriors into the same skill (learning curve) level as other professions. This may or may not be the correct direction to attain this goal but this is just a step in a direction and is simply my opinion.

-What if while under the effect of Endure Pain the Warrior took increased Condition damage?

-And what if while under the effect of Berserker Stance the Warrior took increased Power Damage?

These “penalty” effects could of course be reduced or removed via traits but would require a commitment down said trait line to get. Not only does this make sense logistically. (Berserkers should have a higher reward at the cost of higher risk ect) But This could potentially make these Utility Skills not as mandatory to Warrior players both old and new.

I’d start with the root causes. How Warriors beat out everyone in armor, health and healing/sec before traits or utility skills are applied.

Flat out stronger armour, higher health and more healing/sec then my Engineer, and my Engineer actually has either toughness or vit on every piece of gear. My Warrior is full zerker.

Which then execerbates the problem, as my Engineer needs to spend about a third of his itembudget (to still be worst) this gives Warriors 33% more stats to dedicate to damage.
So even if damage was balanced, with so much more to put towards damage they win that game too.

Its like one of those Easy modes you see in some games that just give you flat out higher stats. Thats what a Warrior is right now, play one and you get extra stats.

@thd

Heh what I see from yours is ""Dad(tear) can you teach me how to read?"

But on a serious note, I have been playing strictly sPvP since launch, all professions and the majority of builds and from my friends who I try and recruit into PvP they struggle to find enjoyment or not feel frustrated/overwhelmed when they dive in. This coupled with the fact that certain builds or abilities require no true counter play short from simply running and waiting for the duration to expire. (Things like Minion Master Necromancer is a good example of a powerful simple build as well as Engineers Automated Response response) can make counter play very difficult.

Warriors lose their shine in the upper tier SPvP as experienced players learn to cope with their mechanics but as I said in my previous post. This is simply a concept so try and understand.

@Terrahero

I can understand the frustration with the warriors health pool, and access to a solid trait line, excellent condition removal, powerful hybrid damage, and the most potent passive healing in GW2 currently. But most builds that don’t incorporate those two utilities are rather fun to play/fight as they require a broader knowledge of Guild Wars 2 PvP.

Keep in mind I am talking strictly from a sPvP point of view.

I don’t get how introducing a penalty to stances increases the learning curve for warriors.

Wolf.5816:

I’m just throwing out this concept.

My goal is that Anet will bring warriors into the same skill (learning curve) level as other professions. This may or may not be the correct direction to attain this goal but this is just a step in a direction and is simply my opinion.

-What if while under the effect of Endure Pain the Warrior took increased Condition damage?

-And what if while under the effect of Berserker Stance the Warrior took increased Power Damage?

These “penalty” effects could of course be reduced or removed via traits but would require a commitment down said trait line to get. Not only does this make sense logistically. (Berserkers should have a higher reward at the cost of higher risk ect) But This could potentially make these Utility Skills not as mandatory to Warrior players both old and new.

These skills are " mandatory " as you put it because without them you’re not very viable.
Zerker stance is a MUST have given the condition spamming meta today if you want to have any chance of doing good.
Endure Pain is also a strong skill but why increased damage from conditions?

You’re still vulnerable to conditions ( which is the meta) – you’re still prone to knockdowns and CC. You’re simply not taking damage for what? 4 seconds?

Is 4 seconds really THAT much?

@Terrahero – you seem to not understand that warriors lack the ability to specialize. They lack soft damage prevention – so they need those extra stats to survive.

Other classes use different mechanics such as stealth, clones , protection spam or high versatility ( case of the engineer) to stay alive. Warriors don’t have those. So yes – you need those stats to win the game.

Also Warrior’s difficulty curve is alright – it’s a starter class that doesn’t do as good as others in ANY field, especially high-end PVP.
Every game needs a class that’s not as button mashy as others.

tbh, anet need to stop giving warriors passive sustain and give them more active sustain and utilities

the concept of warriors being able to “facetank” and no much technic involved is just bad design.

the problem is not these active skills(stances), it’s warriors passive sustain. ele has 4 second complete invulnerbility with only 50 CD(which warrior need 3 utilities to achieve) and can cast other spells during it, no one has problem with it.

Terrahero.9358:

I’d start with the root causes. How Warriors beat out everyone in armor, health and healing/sec before traits or utility skills are applied.

Flat out stronger armour, higher health and more healing/sec then my Engineer, and my Engineer actually has either toughness or vit on every piece of gear. My Warrior is full zerker.

Which then execerbates the problem, as my Engineer needs to spend about a third of his itembudget (to still be worst) this gives Warriors 33% more stats to dedicate to damage.
So even if damage was balanced, with so much more to put towards damage they win that game too.

Its like one of those Easy modes you see in some games that just give you flat out higher stats. Thats what a Warrior is right now, play one and you get extra stats.

You do realize high health and armor are not exclusive to warrior right?

People keep trying to use this for the argument in nerfs for warrior but it just makes you look desperate and sad.

Besides that armor is not as effective at mitigating damage as most people seem to believe it is.

Simon.3794:

tbh, anet need to stop giving warriors passive sustain and give them more active sustain and utilities

the concept of warriors being able to “facetank” and no much technic involved is just bad design.

the problem is not these active skills(stances), it’s warriors passive sustain. ele has 4 second complete invulnerbility with only 50 CD(which warrior need 3 utilities to achieve) and can cast other spells during it, no one has problem with it.

Wait, you’re really comparing Ele to Warrior?

hihey.1075:

Simon.3794:

tbh, anet need to stop giving warriors passive sustain and give them more active sustain and utilities

the concept of warriors being able to “facetank” and no much technic involved is just bad design.

the problem is not these active skills(stances), it’s warriors passive sustain. ele has 4 second complete invulnerbility with only 50 CD(which warrior need 3 utilities to achieve) and can cast other spells during it, no one has problem with it.

Wait, you’re really comparing Ele to Warrior?

hehhe indeed he is… that pretty much shows how serious these topics are… pretty much a joke…

fellyn.5083:

Terrahero.9358:

I’d start with the root causes. How Warriors beat out everyone in armor, health and healing/sec before traits or utility skills are applied.

Flat out stronger armour, higher health and more healing/sec then my Engineer, and my Engineer actually has either toughness or vit on every piece of gear. My Warrior is full zerker.

Which then execerbates the problem, as my Engineer needs to spend about a third of his itembudget (to still be worst) this gives Warriors 33% more stats to dedicate to damage.
So even if damage was balanced, with so much more to put towards damage they win that game too.

Its like one of those Easy modes you see in some games that just give you flat out higher stats. Thats what a Warrior is right now, play one and you get extra stats.

You do realize high health and armor are not exclusive to warrior right?

People keep trying to use this for the argument in nerfs for warrior but it just makes you look desperate and sad.

Besides that armor is not as effective at mitigating damage as most people seem to believe it is.

Well technically high health and heavy, or even medium armor are exclusive to warrior. The only other class with a high healthpool is necro, and they are light armor.
Also, high armor is a ~31.5% boost at base to damage reduction over light armor at zero toughness (this of course is smaller at higher levels of toughness than zero, but at 2000 toughness that’s still a 10.2% reduction compared to light armor). Don’t really see that as insignificant.
Do the math, base light armor is 967, base heavy armor is 1271.

Or just look here:
(1271-967)/967=.315, a 31.5% increase.
(3271-2967)/967=.102, a 10.2% increase.

This ignores conditions, but anybody who thinks warriors is weak to those needs to get some sleep.

fellyn.5083:

You do realize high health and armor are not exclusive to warrior right?

yes they are…

Necro has as much HP as warrior, but half of warriors armor.
Guardian has warriors armor but half of warriors HP.

so yes, only warriors have both high health and armor,
and damage, and mobility, cleansing, healing etc…

I also play warrior, and saying that warriors are not very capable in every aspect is pretending innocence.
(I am not saying OP because it is very emotionally charged word…)

IMHO make it so that you can’t have several stances active at one time, or so that stances cancel other stances when they’re active (except for the trait stances). Kinda doesn’t make sense that someone is simultaneously in a Balanced stance while also being in a Berserker stance?

Anet, please leave warriors alone. It is the ONLY class in the game that is nearly perfectly balanced.
Time will be MUCH better spent elsewhere on other classes.

Lalangamena.3694:

fellyn.5083:

You do realize high health and armor are not exclusive to warrior right?

yes they are…

Necro has as much HP as warrior, but half of warriors armor.
Guardian has warriors armor but half of warriors HP.

so yes, only warriors have both high health and armor,
and damage, and mobility, cleansing, healing etc…

I also play warrior, and saying that warriors are not very capable in every aspect is pretending innocence.
(I am not saying OP because it is very emotionally charged word…)

meanwhile they also have great stability, while dealing most cc in the game( this sooo makes no sense whatsoever)

then war also has one of the best condi removals

then they can get invul and ignore any kind of dmg or cc( which is really bad as they can run into a keep, warbanner the lord and run out again without any counter to it)

so where is the counter to those invul? how can a light armor stop a war from rushing them? yes necro has access to lots of health, but necro has no stability, no invul, no defensive skills, no combat speed and way less armor.

so those skills make a warrior even more unstoppable…
so give us a way to counter it!

Naz.2607:

Anet, please leave warriors alone. It is the ONLY class in the game that is nearly perfectly balanced.
Time will be MUCH better spent elsewhere on other classes.

sry but they are not. war has no weakness:

cc:doesnt affect war
stuns: doesnt affect wars
immobilize: doesnt affect wars
condi: war has very little problem with that
dps: they are tough and have high hp, plus perma regen which heals a lot, so doesnt affect them much and if it gets a little rough, they can pop their invul and leap out of combat
combat speed/mobility: war has the best in the game

so what exactly is a wars weakness?if a class has no weakness and dominates over every other class, then this is not perfectly balanced at all.

Simon.3794:

tbh, anet need to stop giving warriors passive sustain and give them more active sustain and utilities

the concept of warriors being able to “facetank” and no much technic involved is just bad design.

the problem is not these active skills(stances), it’s warriors passive sustain. ele has 4 second complete invulnerbility with only 50 CD(which warrior need 3 utilities to achieve) and can cast other spells during it, no one has problem with it.

Erm, Endure Pain 4 second duration, Mist Form 3 second duration. It also locks the ele out of weapon skills, heal, utilities and elite and has a higher cool down…

Warrior then has access to block, 3 second duration Vs 4 second of ele which has a 50second cool down vs 30seconds of warrior

Endure Pain + Block = 90 second cool down total. 4 seconds of immunity to damage and can still heal, use utilities and weapon skills

Mist Form+ Obsidian Armor = 125second cool down. 3 seconds of being locked out of weapon skills, heal, utilities and elite.

So not sure what you were actually saying. Warrior has BETTER passive healing than any class by simply equipping a signet. They also have the Highest Health and Armor of all classes the only one that has BOTH high/high. They also have crazy CC ability and the BEST mobility in the game. that requires taking Greatsword, Hammer and Healing Signet…That is it, that is ignoring the traits, the utilities and everything else.

They can go zerker and still be plenty tanky, Go ele and try going Zerker…

Naz.2607:

Anet, please leave warriors alone. It is the ONLY class in the game that is nearly perfectly balanced.
Time will be MUCH better spent elsewhere on other classes.

The only class that is nearly perfectly balanced? Let me guess you play warrior. Tip: It is easier to nerf one class than it is to buff 7. Warriors have the best of EVERYTHING at the cost of NOTHING. Sorry but they are no where near balanced and makiing everything else up to that standard would break the game even more. Rather than buffing everything else up, nerf the minority as its easier and quicker than buffing the majority.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simon.3794:

tbh, anet need to stop giving warriors passive sustain and give them more active sustain and utilities

the concept of warriors being able to “facetank” and no much technic involved is just bad design.

the problem is not these active skills(stances), it’s warriors passive sustain. ele has 4 second complete invulnerbility with only 50 CD(which warrior need 3 utilities to achieve) and can cast other spells during it, no one has problem with it.

Erm, Endure Pain 4 second duration, Mist Form 3 second duration. It also locks the ele out of weapon skills, heal, utilities and elite and has a higher cool down…

Warrior then has access to block, 3 second duration Vs 4 second of ele which has a 50second cool down vs 30seconds of warrior

Endure Pain + Block = 90 second cool down total. 4 seconds of immunity to damage and can still heal, use utilities and weapon skills

Mist Form+ Obsidian Armor = 125second cool down. 3 seconds of being locked out of weapon skills, heal, utilities and elite.

So not sure what you were actually saying. Warrior has BETTER passive healing than any class by simply equipping a signet. They also have the Highest Health and Armor of all classes the only one that has BOTH high/high. They also have crazy CC ability and the BEST mobility in the game. that requires taking Greatsword, Hammer and Healing Signet…That is it, that is ignoring the traits, the utilities and everything else.

They can go zerker and still be plenty tanky, Go ele and try going Zerker…

I’m not talking about mist form, Focus earth 5. 50 CD 4 seconds invulnerability which you can cast other spells during it, i play SF ele, i know it.

Again, block can be easily interrupted by unblockables or deal damage through, and you can’t do stuff while blocking, endure pain is 60 CD 3 second damage immunity, during which you can be CC’ed, apply conditions, and more stuff.

“So not sure what you were actually saying”
i’m talking about how passive sustain (like healing signet) is bad design and should be removed, you clearly can not read.

“They also have crazy CC ability and the BEST mobility” but they can’t have both of them at the same time, or else they are not viable. Also if you are talking about PvP maps, every classes that has blink have better mobility then a warrior.

i’m sure you don’t play a lot of classes don’t you.

note: just so you know, every pvpers should play multiple classes.

selan.8354:

Naz.2607:

Anet, please leave warriors alone. It is the ONLY class in the game that is nearly perfectly balanced.
Time will be MUCH better spent elsewhere on other classes.

sry but they are not. war has no weakness:

cc:doesnt affect war
stuns: doesnt affect wars
immobilize: doesnt affect wars
condi: war has very little problem with that
dps: they are tough and have high hp, plus perma regen which heals a lot, so doesnt affect them much and if it gets a little rough, they can pop their invul and leap out of combat
combat speed/mobility: war has the best in the game

so what exactly is a wars weakness?if a class has no weakness and dominates over every other class, then this is not perfectly balanced at all.

Im sorry but do you have in mind the famous 30/30/30/30/30 5 weapon all utilities war build?
Because last time i checked you have 8s stability ( 60 or 40s cd), to remove immob you need to trait 20 points into discipline and only movement skill remove it ( GS, sword and burst of hammer and axe)
Condi – warrior has lot of problem with that, thats why warriors take lyssa runes AND cleansing ire ( 20 points into tree again + you need to hit with your burst, only lb is auto cleanse) and berseker stance 8s immunity FOR NEW conditions, 60s cd.

Permaregen warriors have its called healing skill. Warriors dont have regen boon
mobility again – only with GS or sword

So maybe stop talking out of your kitten.

P.S. yesterday i met full condi fear spamming minion mancer necro who was in his DS 24/7 using all traits possible, trust me, such op, needs nerfs

Simon.3794:

I’m not talking about mist form, Focus earth 5. 50 CD 4 seconds invulnerability which you can cast other spells during it, i play SF ele, i know it.

So, you compare ONE skill against another. Ignoring the fact that Ele start with Lowest Health, Lowest Armor and are forced to go into defensive options in order not to get 1-2 shot.

Sorry but that doesnt work.

Warrior have SO much more than Ele, More health, more armor, more passive regen, more CC, more mobility, more damage and that is just again taking Healing Signet, Hammer and Greatsword.

Ele are forced to go into defensive options to counter the disadvantages they start with, lowest health and lowest armor. A warrior can easily go Zerker and STILL be more tanky than an ele.

That is also ignoring the insane cool downs on some/most weapon skills and insane cool down on utilities…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Simon.3794:

I’m not talking about mist form, Focus earth 5. 50 CD 4 seconds invulnerability which you can cast other spells during it, i play SF ele, i know it.

So, you compare ONE skill against another. Ignoring the fact that Ele start with Lowest Health, Lowest Armor and are forced to go into defensive options in order not to get 1-2 shot.

Sorry but that doesnt work.

That’s why i’m saying that the skills have no problem, the problem is healing signets and passive sustains, can’t you read? or at least understand? you did just mention having lowest health, lowest armor and warrior have so much more. did i ever say that focus5 has problem? please buy some logic, because you clearly don’t understand.

and ele is not forced to go full defensive, blink can be used defense and offense, so is arcane shield, 30 points in to air is not defensive as a scepter player

####Too long, English too difficult version :
warrior op need nerf, nerf passive sustain, nerf healing signet, no nerf stances.

+ warriors take 3 defensive utilities and never do pure spec into power/crit builds why? Because without x/x/30/x/15 build they die in seconds?
Srsly when was the last time you met warrior without stability, stances and hammer in his hand? ( hint, hammer lockdown buys times = you survive longer).
And boy oh boy good eles are unkillable, good luck wasting your time chasing one. And when he turns around with fresh cooldowns…
its not the game at faul, its the player