Guild Wars 2

Anet,

You do know longbow AA is also 3/4 sec right?
its terrible slow!! not only you make pin down to 3/4 sec (that’s gonna be 1,25 for real)
But also easier to spot.. so now everyone can dodge this long CD skill..
Without immob we cant land the terrible slow arcing arrow or F1…

But we are also still doomed with its terrible slow AA!
Atleast buff its AA to compensate something, you also did for ranger longbow AA..

Why does warrior get all the 1sec casttime skills + easy to see skills??
Other classes can just as easy spam/instant cast there skills, you just make warrior a terrible slow class..

With 2x nerfs on combustive shot and now a huge nerf on Pin down I can atleast say we should also need something back..

Now F1 doesn’t do any good damage or most of the time its only for condi removal.. not even for its damage (burst.. lol) but there is now also a very VERY good counter to pin down.. still not happy with this… but there is not a single buff/compensate to its VERY VERY slow AA.. that also doesn’t do that good damage.. atleast give something in return…

People can say you don’t win with pressing 1111111.. your right about this.
Longbow is for doing a burst, but that becomes very hard with this change.. but that’s the counterpart.. but if you fail your pin down you’re forced to wait for weaponswap.. because longbow cant do enough pressure without pin down/arcing arrow.. F1 is already a joke.

Maby remove 1 or 2 bleedings from pin down and add 1 short bleeding on its AA..
So not ALL bleeding comes from only pin down, this would help both condi as power builds… now longbow depents way to much on pin down.. If this skill becomes to easy to counter there is almost no way call this weapon viable, because both F1 and arcing arrow are slow so they are designed around your immob..

you know why? look at your warrior flexing his or her muscles, look at the glorious, godlike muscle fiber there! that puts kick behind your skills… also look at and pinch their skin. you’ll see it’s really tough and healthy. also look at your warrior’s diet? see all that healthfood there? all the protein shakes? all the fiber goodness? that makes your warrior healthy, son. alo look at their armor. that shiny shiny metal thing coating them. so shiny every skritt would want it. and also tough too. i hope i made my point.

Why in the world do you want your autoattacks to be strong?
Isn’t that kind of silly, that you think the one attack on each weapon that requires literally no thought to use should have good amounts of power?
Besides that, a skill that has the power that Pin Down has (Guaranteed projectile finisher, long range, 6 stacks of 12s bleed, and 3s immobilize on a 25 second base cooldown) should absolutely be obviously telegraphed and dodgeable.

Also “terribly”, not “terrible”. It’s really bothering me, you wrote it four times.

Still better then the necro dagger 3 skill. And that weapon needs the control probably more than a longbow warrior…

Horrible :/
One more wrong and unnecessary LB nerf :/

They may remove the weapon from warrior :/

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Why in the world do you want your autoattacks to be strong?
Isn’t that kind of silly, that you think the one attack on each weapon that requires literally no thought to use should have good amounts of power?
Besides that, a skill that has the power that Pin Down has (Guaranteed projectile finisher, long range, 6 stacks of 12s bleed, and 3s immobilize on a 25 second base cooldown) should absolutely be obviously telegraphed and dodgeable.

Also “terribly”, not “terrible”. It’s really bothering me, you wrote it four times.

Because you need to keep doing pressure with every weapon, longbow is mainly used for its immob with F1 > arcing arrow.. if you miss you at least need some normal AA to keep doing some solid damage. in its current state the AA is way to slow for its role.

It’s now more similar to elementalist’s Ice Bow. Which is perfectly fair.

DiogoSilva.7089:

It’s now more similar to elementalist’s Ice Bow. Which is perfectly fair.

.. that’s not even a main weapon..

Overnerfed. Just like Skullcrack. Why not take it to 1/2 second? No, make it 3/4, and give it an incredibly obvious animation.

Cygnus.6903:

Overnerfed. Just like Skullcrack. Why not take it to 1/2 second? No, make it 3/4, and give it an incredibly obvious animation.

^this.. it happens to every warrior weapon..

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

For warrior.. every patch we get is another + highly telegraphed skill on long casttime for warrior and zero for other classes

Do you want to bet that after the nerf people will still QQ about Pin Down?

nicknamenick.2437:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

For warrior.. every patch we get is another + highly telegraphed skill on long casttime for warrior and zero for other classes

Necro could use better telegraphs as well, but that’s being talked about in another thread. Most of the telegraphs in this game are pretty good overall though imo.

What other skills do you think need better telegraphs?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

Well to be honest i thought they would have chosen another way to balance it if it was too strong. Just like “Skullcrack”, now we can add another “Killshot” animation to our list of over telegraphed skills.

Regards

Seed

nicknamenick.2437:

Why does warrior get all the 1sec casttime skills + easy to see skills??

warrior has all of the easy to see skills? oh man, that’s rich
try playing other classes for a bit, yo

All those highly telegraphed skills, like healing signet…oh wait, snap!

Personally I’d love to see skills with big telegraphs give more control to the player using them.

Tbh I don’t really get the whine about Pin Down. This skill is already telegraphed enough and easily dodgeable. I doubt animation changes will help in cases it currently is hard to notice (3v3+ fights, too many pets, too much particle effects or simply firing from outside field of view).

Yes, silentnight, I’m pretty sure people will still complain. I’m convinced you could replace this skill with bolas, and people would still complain, just because hammobw OP.
I agree it is and that something must be done about it, but this is not really the way.

IMO this whole thing is like trying to cure cancer with aspirine and hot tea. The real problem here is not the Pin Down, it’s the visual clutter all over the place that obscures completely obvious animation. If anything, more skills could use clean and simple animations like this instead of being a firework show.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

^

Now, if only we could do the same to backstab…

Arlette.9684:

Oh those warrior tears are so delicious… mmmmmm

Np, i will swith to Ele, now i can stack 25+ might and perma dodge with D/D

Well designed skill should do either two mediocre / weak things or one powerful thing, but not more. Skills which do many powerful things at same time are generally overpowered and broken. Pin down clearly violates this game design rule and has too much good things going on.

Right now pin down has 1000 range, 25 s cooldown and does:
minor amount direct damage
6 stacks of 12 s bleed (huge)
3 second immobilize
and it pierces!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down

Compare this for example with engineer rifle #2, net shot:
1000 range, 10 s cooldown
no dmg, no bleed stacks
2 seconds immobilize
can affect only one target, easy to strafe from range (don’t even need to dodge it)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

Compare this also with the warrior rifle #2, aimed shot:
1200 range, 10 s cooldown
minor amount of direct damage
5 s cripple
affects only one target (unless traited)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot

I would argue that 5 s cripple without bleed stacks is much weaker than 3 immobilize.
No wonder why almost all warriors select longbow instead of the rifle.

I think adding some delay to the animation will not solve the thing. 3 second piercing immobilize is already incredibly strong, especially in group situations, concerning that immobilizes are now stacking. Arenanet designers should decide, either reduce the immobilize duration of pin down or tone down the damage part (direct dmg + bleeds). Description wise it would be logical if pin down would only immobilize, but would not do anything else (just like engineer rifle #2).

Deniara Devious.3948:

Well designed skill should do either two mediocre / weak things or one powerful thing, but not more. Skills which do many powerful things at same time are generally overpowered and broken. Pin down clearly violates this game design rule and has too much good things going on.

Right now pin down has 1000 range, 25 s cooldown and does:
minor amount direct damage
6 stacks of 12 s bleed (huge)
3 second immobilize
and it pierces!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down

Compare this for example with engineer rifle #2, net shot:
1000 range, 10 s cooldown
no dmg, no bleed stacks
2 seconds immobilize
can affect only one target, easy to strafe from range (don’t even need to dodge it)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

Compare this also with the warrior rifle #2, aimed shot:
1200 range, 10 s cooldown
minor amount of direct damage
5 s cripple
affects only one target (unless traited)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot

I would argue that 5 s cripple without bleed stacks is much weaker than 3 immobilize.
No wonder why almost all warriors select longbow instead of the rifle.

I think adding some delay to the animation will not solve the thing. 3 second piercing immobilize is already incredibly strong, especially in group situations, concerning that immobilizes are now stacking. Arenanet designers should decide, either reduce the immobilize duration of pin down or tone down the damage part (direct dmg + bleeds). Description wise it would be logical if pin down would only immobilize, but would not do anything else (just like engineer rifle #2).

You know what? just delete the kitten weapon!! done with all this lame QQ or comparing..

Comparing it with your turret?? longbow is a kitten weapon! not a lame turrent you can drop and continue doing you spamming

Comparing it with rifle? rifle is terrible bad, also you compare skill5 with a skill2 from rifle on 50% less cooldown and still 1/4 casttime..

there where many posts about pin down, and almost anybody agree it could be 3x or many 4x bleeding down from 5×... and increasing its casttime from 1/4 to 1/2

What does Anet do? keep the lame bleedings but increased to 3/4 + ofc a massive message: HERE I CAST MY PIN DOWN PLS DODGE/BLIND/AEGIS/OR WHATEVER and let my skill miss everytime so I cant setup any burst with this weapon and you can keep trolling around where I am stuck in weaponswap cooldown with a terrible AA during that…

GJ Anet

And GJ about the lame 10% damage nerf also that’s going to hit mixed gear people way harder!!

All join condi bunker builds!

Deniara Devious.3948:

Well designed skill should do either two mediocre / weak things or one powerful thing, but not more. Skills which do many powerful things at same time are generally overpowered and broken. Pin down clearly violates this game design rule and has too much good things going on.

Right now pin down has 1000 range, 25 s cooldown and does:
minor amount direct damage
6 stacks of 12 s bleed (huge)
3 second immobilize
and it pierces!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down

Compare this for example with engineer rifle #2, net shot:
1000 range, 10 s cooldown
no dmg, no bleed stacks
2 seconds immobilize
can affect only one target, easy to strafe from range (don’t even need to dodge it)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

Compare this also with the warrior rifle #2, aimed shot:
1200 range, 10 s cooldown
minor amount of direct damage
5 s cripple
affects only one target (unless traited)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot

I would argue that 5 s cripple without bleed stacks is much weaker than 3 immobilize.
No wonder why almost all warriors select longbow instead of the rifle.

I think adding some delay to the animation will not solve the thing. 3 second piercing immobilize is already incredibly strong, especially in group situations, concerning that immobilizes are now stacking. Arenanet designers should decide, either reduce the immobilize duration of pin down or tone down the damage part (direct dmg + bleeds). Description wise it would be logical if pin down would only immobilize, but would not do anything else (just like engineer rifle #2).

What they need to do its to remove immo stacking.

Arlette.9684:

Oh those warrior tears are so delicious… mmmmmm

They sure are…

Warrior is pretty much Usain Bolt, Legolas and The Hulk in 1 proffesion. Guess anet hates Legolas.

silentnight warrior.2714:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

warriors have enough survuvability to stay alive while executing such attacks
backstab has longer animation than any of warrior attacks due to:
- stealth requirement
- positional requirement
- travel time

let’s assume you are facing d/p thief, to get backstab off he would need to go BP -> HS -> get behind you and use backstab – that is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more time spent on execution than any of warrior attacks

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

warriors have enough survuvability to stay alive while executing such attacks
backstab has longer animation than any of warrior attacks due to:
- stealth requirement
- positional requirement
- travel time

let’s assume you are facing d/p thief, to get backstab off he would need to go BP -> HS -> get behind you and use backstab – that is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more time spent on execution than any of warrior attacks

25sec cooldown on pin down that’s easy to dodge
And you? its almost impossible to miss a backstab.. and you don’t have to wait that long to do it again

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

warriors have enough survuvability to stay alive while executing such attacks
backstab has longer animation than any of warrior attacks due to:
- stealth requirement
- positional requirement
- travel time

let’s assume you are facing d/p thief, to get backstab off he would need to go BP -> HS -> get behind you and use backstab – that is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more time spent on execution than any of warrior attacks

Backstab can be executed by chain in 1 or 2 sec from 900, 1200 or 1500 range. The chain itself attend all requirements.

Actually (before PinDown nerf), if both players start attack, warrior with pindown and thief with chain, the chain will win. After this ridiculous nerf, this skill will become useless against mid and good players.

nicknamenick.2437:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Well designed skill should do either two mediocre / weak things or one powerful thing, but not more. Skills which do many powerful things at same time are generally overpowered and broken. Pin down clearly violates this game design rule and has too much good things going on.

Right now pin down has 1000 range, 25 s cooldown and does:
minor amount direct damage
6 stacks of 12 s bleed (huge)
3 second immobilize
and it pierces!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down

Compare this for example with engineer rifle #2, net shot:
1000 range, 10 s cooldown
no dmg, no bleed stacks
2 seconds immobilize
can affect only one target, easy to strafe from range (don’t even need to dodge it)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot

Compare this also with the warrior rifle #2, aimed shot:
1200 range, 10 s cooldown
minor amount of direct damage
5 s cripple
affects only one target (unless traited)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot

I would argue that 5 s cripple without bleed stacks is much weaker than 3 immobilize.
No wonder why almost all warriors select longbow instead of the rifle.

I think adding some delay to the animation will not solve the thing. 3 second piercing immobilize is already incredibly strong, especially in group situations, concerning that immobilizes are now stacking. Arenanet designers should decide, either reduce the immobilize duration of pin down or tone down the damage part (direct dmg + bleeds). Description wise it would be logical if pin down would only immobilize, but would not do anything else (just like engineer rifle #2).

Comparing it with your turret?? longbow is a kitten weapon! not a lame turrent you can drop and continue doing you spamming

All join condi bunker builds!

Its not a turret, its a skill on engineer rifle (yeah you seldom see power engis but still…)

And the last part is pure gold considering that this is a backbone in condibunker warriors.

(and the turret that actually do imobilize is getting a 33% nerf in its immobilize. Because of supply crate. Its around 15% upkeep on a turret that can die(easily), attacks the wrong target, has a huge hitbox, limited range and a looooaaaad of bugs. Throw bolas atleast travels in the general direction you want it too, and have a higher uptime. + you cant kill it to set it on a much longer cooldown(forcing it to recharge again)).

Just sayin.

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

warriors have enough survuvability to stay alive while executing such attacks
backstab has longer animation than any of warrior attacks due to:
- stealth requirement
- positional requirement
- travel time

let’s assume you are facing d/p thief, to get backstab off he would need to go BP -> HS -> get behind you and use backstab – that is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more time spent on execution than any of warrior attacks

Actualy i was refering to animation and backstab dont have any animation for the other player.

The other player dont know if you will attack, will run, from where you will attack, where you are.

But its not the worst on the skills i mentioned.

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

warriors have enough survuvability to stay alive while executing such attacks
backstab has longer animation than any of warrior attacks due to:
- stealth requirement
- positional requirement
- travel time

let’s assume you are facing d/p thief, to get backstab off he would need to go BP -> HS -> get behind you and use backstab – that is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more time spent on execution than any of warrior attacks

Backstab works any where on the target but directly in front of them.

Fortus.6175:

Now, if only we could do the same to backstab…

A thief disappearing is like, the biggest backstab telegraph in the world.

Tryble.6819:

Fortus.6175:

Now, if only we could do the same to backstab…

A thief disappearing is like, the biggest backstab telegraph in the world.

“Thief just Black powder + heartseeker’d… he’s probably coming to give me a hug and I shouldn’t react at all.”

How to beat a warrior: http://youtu.be/EWTSeTxKLJo?t=1m51s

K U T M.4539:

Tryble.6819:

Fortus.6175:

Now, if only we could do the same to backstab…

A thief disappearing is like, the biggest backstab telegraph in the world.

“Thief just Black powder + heartseeker’d… he’s probably coming to give me a hug and I shouldn’t react at all.”

So that is the animation of backstab… amazing… I thought that were the animations of Black Powder and heartseeker…

Back on topic :-)

With 2x nerfs on combustive shot and now a huge nerf on Pin down I can atleast say we should also need something back..

Now F1 doesn’t do any good damage or most of the time its only for condi removal.. not even for its damage (burst.. lol) but there is now also a very VERY good counter to pin down.. still not happy with this… but there is not a single buff/compensate to its VERY VERY slow AA.. that also doesn’t do that good damage.. atleast give something in return…

People can say you don’t win with pressing 1111111..
Longbow is for doing a burst, but that becomes very hard with this change.. but that’s the counterpart.. but if you fail your pin down you’re forced to wait for weaponswap.. because longbow cant do enough pressure without pin down/arcing arrow.. F1 is already a joke.

Kinda sad everyone just agree with this nerf :-(

Anet, why not make every warrior skill a killshot animation????

Other classes can just burst you down from stealth
Or like Ele can burst you down, dropping 5 skills in just 1/4sec… where is the counter there????
Mesmers skills that cant be seen because all the screen kitten around or from stealth
etc etc… but ofc warrior need to be slow with every weapon they get..

Pin Down in its current incarnation would be insane in a meta which doesn’t revolve around condition clearing. At the moment, it is more or less impossible to dodge based on its tells alone; the projectile is very fast and almost indistinguishable from the auto-attack, and the animation is almost instant. It applies immobilize and a lot of bleeding. It’s also being buffed, with double sigils becoming available.

I don’t see this change destroying hambow.

This game deserves more [Kill Shot]s across the board.
The change to [Pin Down] doesn’t even make it a [Kill Shot].
People crying about offensive skills having proper cues are the reason why this game is so bad.

Trouble is, ANet goes about giving [Pin Down] a nice little telegraph, but then turns around and gives [Burning Speed] evasion frames. This sort of thing just shows that ANet isn’t ready to move in the proper direction with this game’s combat. Balancing powerful skills properly in a game without a global mana system requires making them risky for the user to activate in a fight.

Swagg.9236:

Trouble is, ANet goes about giving [Pin Down] a nice little telegraph, but then turns around and gives [Burning Speed] evasion frames.

Two completely different things. Burning speed has a HUGE tell which allows you to evade/block the skill if necessary. Pin down on the other hand.. Has a very low cast time and no noticeable animation. The only way I can tell the difference is from the difference in the way the projectile looks.

Swagg.9236:

Trouble is, ANet goes about giving [Pin Down] a nice little telegraph, but then turns around and gives [Burning Speed] evasion frames.

1) Burning Speed is easy to dodge.
2) Burning Speed is attached to Elementalist, a HYPER-squishy class in sPvP that doesn’t even warrant spots in tournament teams at the moment. You think everyone can lay back as much as a Warrior? Get real. Evasion frames on one skill isn’t even close to bringing Ele to tPvP viability any day soon.

A negligible increase in cast time to a skill that will still connect through the thousands of particle effects anyway, attached to a class that won’t die in an instant if the intended skill doesn’t land/work. Boo-kitten-hoo.

Muchacho.2390:

Still better then the necro dagger 3 skill. And that weapon needs the control probably more than a longbow warrior…

Lol no.

Dark pact is not a projectile. Which means, you can’t hide behind an AI to block it. A necromancer can be running away with the back facing the enemy as he uses it.

It is well balanced between the two.

If anet wants to nerf pin down, then they better buff throw bolas. Fix the bugs, put it at 1/4 second casting, make the projectile speed faster.

Otherwise, Pindown doesn’t need a nerf.

JETWING.2759:

Horrible :/
One more wrong and unnecessary LB nerf :/

They may remove the weapon from warrior :/

Anet devs HATE bows…

Used to play Ranger Shortbow but they nerfed that to oblivion so looked around for a alternative…

Moved on to Warrior Longbow, now they have nerfed that to oblivion…

When nerf comes in, will try movin to Warrior Greatsword/Hammer (2 sigils in each weapon…yeah) or Sword/Axe + Hammer or Sword/Axe + Greatsword.

They really hate ranged and want you to play melee…

Meglobob.8620:

Anet devs HATE bows…

Used to play Ranger Shortbow but they nerfed that to oblivion so looked around for a alternative…

Moved on to Warrior Longbow, now they have nerfed that to oblivion…

After the tears subside, take a look at Ranger Shortbow and Warrior Longbow’s usage in PvP.. they’re amongst the most viable, if not still absolute must haves. And they will remain so.

God forbid you have an important skill that you will need to set up or count dodges to land.. welcome to every other profession (except necro)

Chaith.8256:

Meglobob.8620:

Anet devs HATE bows…

Used to play Ranger Shortbow but they nerfed that to oblivion so looked around for a alternative…

Moved on to Warrior Longbow, now they have nerfed that to oblivion…

After the tears subside, take a look at Ranger Shortbow and Warrior Longbow’s usage in PvP/WvW.. they’re amongst the most viable, if not still absolute must haves. And they will remain so.

I usually play PvP most days and I can’t remember the last time I saw a Ranger with a shortbow, it suffered a MASSIVE decline since it was nerfed.

Same will happen with Warrior longbow, already see less using it after nerfing the F1 skill on Longbow, skill 5 is where the majority of a Warrior’s Longbow damage comes from, so after nerf it will be rarely used/seen.

Meglobob.8620:

I usually play PvP most days and I can’t remember the last time I saw a Ranger with a shortbow, it suffered a MASSIVE decline since it was nerfed.

Same will happen with Warrior longbow, already see less using it after nerfing the F1 skill on Longbow, skill 5 is where the majority of a Warrior’s Longbow damage comes from, so after nerf it will be rarely used/seen.

95% of Rangers in PvP that run builds competitive with the current meta builds have shortbow. I’d put 95% of Warrior builds that can hang with other profession’s top builds as completely reliant on Longbow in order to maximize Cleansing Ire.

We have Hambow Warriors, and we have the Axe/Sword & Longbow reflect bug abusing Warriors.. but the Longbow is common to all the most powerful builds.

As for your prediction that Longbow will rarely be seen on Warrior, from being on every good Warrior, if we add .5 seconds to the Pin Down – you’re entitled to your own opinion even if it couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Good Warriors will continue to land their Pin Down, whether it’s a .75s cast or .25, and continue to be one of the strongest Weapons & PvP build in the game. =)