Guild Wars 2

MidoriMarch.8067:

Simon.3794:

MidoriMarch.8067:

glaphen.5230:

Thief and Elementalist are faster and sacrifice less.

what kind of bs is this?

warriors are the class that sacrifice less while having everything

which class have 20khp / 2000+ armor while having 3000+ attack damage + mobility on swapping weapons / stuns/block?

I’m sorry, but you, a no body(probably a zergling zerg wvwer too), calling a thief who reached top 25 leaderboard bs?

and based on your comment, you are clearly clueless, stuns/block on gs/sword wh, lol.
i personally agree on warrior nerfing, but your comment is just out of no where and you should stop posting.

MidoriMarch.8067:

i can stomp most of classess without taking any skills.
before anet nerf thieves on any they should nerf warrior first and buff guardians

lol i totally get it now, i really hope that no one take this guy seriously

Never said warrior’s gs + sword/warhorn got stun/block learn to read

mace/shield got all the stuns and block prove me wrong go play ur easy peasy warrior kid

and please tell me wheres the mobility on mace shield, you call me easy peasy warrior kid, i bet i can dual you with any class and win, based on how clueless your comments are. i bet your rank havent even pass 20 and didnt even reach top 1000 in either of the leaderboard nor like you can do anything extraordinary in WvW. and i like how you called BS to some one who clearly has more experience then you will ever have.

Azgarn.2145:

Aberrant.6749:

In PvP it doesn’t really matter tbh. If they run away they still are giving away free points. They won’t be able to do much with gs + sword/wh. Because of the level designs, teleports are generally better anyways.

In WvW is where it’s broken. The loss of 1 player not killing players doesn’t matter. Teleports aren’t as useful because of the maps, pure landspeed is. They can zip around the map killing yaks/taking camps etc. Out of the two the gs is the worse offender with two movement skills on one weapon (one with evade).

Yeah using the landscape with teleports, teleporting up cliffs, up and down into valleys, and across bend platforms isn’t even close to running around everywhere on foot…

In WvW it’s not. Not enough good opportunities to balance the two especially considering the evade/cc removal that war has.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

Of all the Warrior weapons I dabbled with, I never used a Warhorn in combat, so I’d forgotten that #4 removes cripple/chilled/immob.

In general though, forum-based “X then Y” arguments are terrible enterprises that go nowhere, but it’s true that Sword+Warhorn/Greatsword is exceptional at running away. The thing is, that’s all it is exceptional at. I don’t know how this combo kills you, because there’s really only 1 ability you ever have to be careful of: Flurry.

I just don’t see the big deal. At all. If an enemy specs for running away, then the fight ceases to be about you securing the kill while avoiding death and becomes you securing the kill and keeping him from escaping. His goal is to chain his abilities in such a way that he gets out of range, and your goal is to drop your abilities into his chain in such a way that keeps him in range. Maybe you land your cripple/chill immediately after the Whirlwind finishes to kitten his Savage Leap, then you follow up with a secondary snare after he blows his Warhorn #4.

It could happen a number of ways, and it’s going to depend on what your class is as well.

But you have basically no threat of dying, so enjoy the chase and stop worrying so much about it.

Wow! I’m playing Thief. 5 mins ago i found “Warrior” on arena…. i dont understand one thing, why am i must click like a crazy tons of buttons for trying to survive against warrior, it is funny all he did is skill number 2 (dont remember the name sry) + F1 and i died… 10k damage. in 3 seconds.
Now the question, how kitten is it possible to fight against that sh*t??

Cogbyrn.7283:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

Of all the Warrior weapons I dabbled with, I never used a Warhorn in combat, so I’d forgotten that #4 removes cripple/chilled/immob.

In general though, forum-based “X then Y” arguments are terrible enterprises that go nowhere, but it’s true that Sword+Warhorn/Greatsword is exceptional at running away. The thing is, that’s all it is exceptional at. I don’t know how this combo kills you, because there’s really only 1 ability you ever have to be careful of: Flurry.

I just don’t see the big deal. At all. If an enemy specs for running away, then the fight ceases to be about you securing the kill while avoiding death and becomes you securing the kill and keeping him from escaping. His goal is to chain his abilities in such a way that he gets out of range, and your goal is to drop your abilities into his chain in such a way that keeps him in range. Maybe you land your cripple/chill immediately after the Whirlwind finishes to kitten his Savage Leap, then you follow up with a secondary snare after he blows his Warhorn #4.

It could happen a number of ways, and it’s going to depend on what your class is as well.

But you have basically no threat of dying, so enjoy the chase and stop worrying so much about it.

If you can’t deal damage/kill on a high landspeed/mobility warrior, you don’t know how to play one.

It’s ignorant to say they’re incapable of doing anything but running.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you can’t deal damage/kill on a high landspeed/mobility warrior, you don’t know how to play one.

It’s ignorant to say they’re incapable of doing anything but running.

How do you see yourself dying to one, personally?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yamsandjams.3267:

The main thing that has been bugging me lately is the virtual immunity to mobility impairing effects, which is enabled by using condition duration reduction food.

Sometimes I’ll be using builds which have mobility impairing skills, but which aren’t deeply investeed into conditions and thus don’t have very high condition duration. The mobility impairing effects aren’t the cornerstone of the build (it’s not a control build), but they allow the build to make space or chase people down.

Unless I’m using the +40% condition duration food (which, to be fair, is more accessible than the condition duration reduction food), these mobility impairing effects are irrelevant. As such, I can’t stop the warrior from getting to me, and I can’t stop them from getting away. All I’m really doing by trying to cripple, immobilize, or chill them is giving them some regeneration.

I don’t mind that they can use those abilities to escape, I just mind that I virtually have no option to counter. In order to counter the mobility, I would need very strong investment in control, but then I can’t out damage the passive healing the warrior is getting in the first place.

Traits and skills balancing is one thing, but they really need to tone down the condi duration food (both the +% and the -%). That would be an easy way to reduce the unstoppable mobility without actually nerfing the warrior.

It’s for this reason that I use +40% duration food on my Powermancer. If I don’t, Chill/Immob don’t stick for more than a split second on Warriors.

If it turns out some other class doesn’t have -40% duration food, I almost feel bad about how long the immobilize from my dagger MH lasts. It’s somewhere in the realm of 5.25 seconds I think.

The +/-40% duration food really needs to just be removed from the game entirely.

IMO, they don’t need to remove it, just bring it in line with the other effects.

For instance, if you look at something like fire flank steak, that gives 100 power and 70 condition damage. This is effectively 17 trait points worth of stats. That is, 10 point in the power line gives 100 power, 7 points in the condi damage line gives 70 condition damage.

If you look at the condition duration increasing food, they give +40% condition duration and 70 condition damage, which is effectively equal to 47 trait points worth of stat. That is, +40% condition duration would be 40 points into the condition duration line (which isn’t even possible), and the 70 condition damage would come from 7 points in its respective line.

To make it equal, the food would have to have +10% condition duration with the 70 condition damage, which would make it have 17 effective trait points worth of stats, similar to the fire flank steak. Then the reduction food could be matched to the same value since it is basically the opposite version of it.

Of course, not all food can be considered in this fashion since their bonuses cannot always be translated to trait point values (i.e. endurance regeneration increase, condi cleansing, HP regen). But the condition duration increase/decrease foods can, and the effective stats they give are much greater in value.

I believe they are a bit hesitant to make this kind of change because they feel it would make it seem like the food has no impact, especially if the slightly weaker one only has 2% less condition duration reduction/increase (they’d have to rescale all foods that use those stats). But these consumables are very important to be competitive in WvW, especially as a roamer, and I don’t think it’s a mystery to many people. They really have a significant impact, when I feel consumables should only have a notable impact that is not completely game changing.

tom.7468:

MidoriMarch.8067:

before anet nerf thieves on any they should nerf warrior first and buff guardians

Anet pls buff my main nerf the one that kill me.
Guardians are meant to stay until the end. If warriors cant run they will die because all they got in defense is their low regen and a few seconds immunity.
Stop trying to turn warrior into a guardian if i wanted a slow guardian i would just play it.

Meh, Guardians are fine the way they are IMO. Guardian is my main btw. I do understand the “buff my main nerf the one that killed me” problem, but you forgot the part where no one will argue that an OP class is not OP more than the ones who play it. Especially when it’s a troll build like this is. Long overdue to be nerfed. There are consequences for getting into combat for a reason (reduced movement speed, weapons swap cooldowns, etc). So being able to run into combat, but at the first sign of trouble running away super fast with your tail between your legs, is not a good thing. Even thieves leave tells as to where they try to stealth, can be knocked out of stealth, and killed while in stealth. However warriors can just go invulneralble, clear all condis, and roll on to troll the next person. To argue otherwise likely means you play a warrior and maybe even love to troll. Sure it feels great to be overpowered, balancing includes a nerf hammer.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Cogbyrn.7283:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

Of all the Warrior weapons I dabbled with, I never used a Warhorn in combat, so I’d forgotten that #4 removes cripple/chilled/immob.

In general though, forum-based “X then Y” arguments are terrible enterprises that go nowhere, but it’s true that Sword+Warhorn/Greatsword is exceptional at running away. The thing is, that’s all it is exceptional at. I don’t know how this combo kills you, because there’s really only 1 ability you ever have to be careful of: Flurry.

I just don’t see the big deal. At all. If an enemy specs for running away, then the fight ceases to be about you securing the kill while avoiding death and becomes you securing the kill and keeping him from escaping. His goal is to chain his abilities in such a way that he gets out of range, and your goal is to drop your abilities into his chain in such a way that keeps him in range. Maybe you land your cripple/chill immediately after the Whirlwind finishes to kitten his Savage Leap, then you follow up with a secondary snare after he blows his Warhorn #4.

It could happen a number of ways, and it’s going to depend on what your class is as well.

But you have basically no threat of dying, so enjoy the chase and stop worrying so much about it.

If you can’t deal damage/kill on a high landspeed/mobility warrior, you don’t know how to play one.

It’s ignorant to say they’re incapable of doing anything but running.

Sword+Warhorn/GS warriors are exceptional at running and killing upleveled baddies/first time WVW’ers.

There you go.

killahmayne.9518:

Sword+Warhorn/GS warriors are exceptional at running and killing upleveled baddies/first time WVW’ers.

There you go.

Well should i tell you how to use mobility?
What about taking a far target and putting it into combat because you havethe best mobility in game, so your party mates can catch you fast, costantly having the freedom to choose numeric advantage fights?

Most warriors do that…because they seems to like 4VS1 a lot.
This ended up being the mirror discussion about thieves….

And i still don t get why elementalist that has nothing, is denied any form of mobility while profession having everything have the best in game.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

Yeah but if a Warrior is running GS/Sword+Warhorn, he’s a nuisance at best outside of some highly specialized situations. Doesn’t matter if he gets away then, that’s like the Eles playing tag at towers, sure they survive but they’re not a danger to you.

I say that, but there’s a case where ~50 Eles did that in an organized manner, granted.

I actually stopped playing my Warrior once I discovered the potential I craved in Necro. I just happen to blame myself first when losing a fight, instead of trying to blame the game. You’ve completely blinded yourself to the possibility that you’re simply doing something wrong, so any changes short of completely neutering the class won’t help you.

So stop, take your rage goggles off, and relax. I know what it’s like to default to irritation at a class. Thief D/P cheese is currently what gets me, especially when I get my Immobilize off before they Black Power, and Heartseeker still takes them into stealth. Usually it’s about 10 minutes later that I realize there are a few things I’ve been wanting to try that I didn’t squeeze into the encounter, but there is always something I could have/should have done better. Until I do all of those things, I’m only in a place to argue that the mechanics aren’t fun, not that they’re imbalanced.

Maybe fighting a mobility Warrior isn’t fun. Say that, because I can see where it isn’t. But at least he doesn’t have a nearly uninterruptible, self-perpetuating stealth mechanism that blinds you on activation with basically no telegraph to set up a huge burst of damage. So you have that going for you. Which is nice.

Trouble with the warrior is it can be too many things without ALWAYS being the jack of all trades and the master of none.

The warrior in its many weapons, specs and iterations with its high offense and defense is the jack AND master. That is well. . . jacked.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Cogbyrn.7283:

LordByron.8369:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Build designed for burst mobility has high burst mobility, but also requires Condi Immunity to even work

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire

That was the absolute worst response you could have possibly countered with. But let’s roll with it:

Warrior has Sword+X/Greatsword. Warrior needs to get away from a group, or get out of a bad encounter in general. He doesn’t have condi immunity up, but he has xXx Cleansing Ire xXx_Sephiroth at his disposal. He’s in one of two places:

1. Right next to the group/person he is escaping from: he turns and uses his Burst ability to clear up to 3 of the conditions on him, freeing him up to then turn and start to run. But whoops, jeeze, many cripples/chills can be cast at range. Uh oh.

2. At a distance from the group/person: he needs to land the Burst ability to clear the conditions, so he turns and runs back into the fight. I hope he has enough time!

Neither of those situations is what a Warrior wants when trying to escape. They want to be clear of condis, and then be immune to them. The only weapon that can use Cleansing Ire when in the process of exiting that doesn’t require turning and landing an attack on an opponent in melee (or with a 3 second cast at range) is the Longbow. Word on the street is, that weapon isn’t very mobile.

It’s hard to imagine a stronger pair of blinders as to how the game actually works. I chill/immobilize Warriors who are just starting to Rush extremely often. It isn’t even difficult. It’s one of the easier reads in the game. Warrior turns his back on you, odds are he’s going to be running out. You can even sense when a fight is going against him and prepare for it.

Cleansing Ire. Almost laughed out loud in my office.

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

Yes but he doesn’t going to use Cleansing Ire to escape as he was saying. And again with what you said in mind that warrior build was made to have that mobility.

I makes sense to me that warrior would get a few gap closers and immobilize to catch their target, otherwise warrior would become kitten again.

What doesn’t make sense to me is the fact they get so much access mobility it can beyond rival thief and elementalist mobility. Flurry on the mobile sword weapon actually hurts pretty bad, especially when it can immobilize you and then allow the warrior to switch over to greatsword and hundred blades you. IMO warriors should have just enough mobility potential to close the gap and then gain more access to the cripple condi. They should be rewarded with cripple if they catch their target, they shouldn’t have the option to ditch out on any fight or infinitely close gaps.

Also thought I’d mention I got hit with killshot (rifle adrenaline skill) for 18k the other day. I have 2600 armor and 17k hp on my ele… 18k killshot? What is up with that? -.-

MidoriMarch.8067:

Seriously Anet…..

GS + Sword/Warhorn + Bull’s Charge = Unstoppable.

how the hell does heavy armor class outruns thief and ele???

people says GS + Sword/warhorn does kitten damage but its wrong its just the other weapons do more damage it doesnt mean u cant kill anyone. still does massive damage + super bursty mobility.

Imagine u wearing maybe 500g light armor and other person wears 40kg heavy armor and who do u think will run fast??

and warrior got everything daze/stun/damage/armor/hp/mobility

seriously i’ve been playing my guardian for like the whole time and i played warrior for like 100 hours and feel like my guardian is completely useless…

warriors can survive much better than guardian and whoever says warriors are weak against cc, every class are weak to cc and warrior has berserk stance/endure pain / balance stance etc way more + highest hp/high armor maintaining high damage + got all the stuns/block massive hp regen (will get nerfed soon but wont be any huge difference) and crazy mobility that outruns every single classess..

tbh i think warrior is way more op than thief like i can stomp most of thieves 90% of the time except maybe some extremely well playing d/p thief with perma blind and condi necro. other than that i can stomp most of classess without taking any skills.

before anet nerf thieves on any they should nerf warrior first and buff guardians

Agreed – make the game more realistic. Heavy professions should be slower than lighter ones.

And while we’re at it let’s keep going further : Light and medium armor professions should get 1 shot by any rifle/pistol attack. Heavies should get 2 shot by those.

Siege weapons should 1 shot everybody.

Armor should require cleaning and care otherwise it’ll break down.
We should have to feed and rest our characters lest they become tired and unable to fight properly.

Anything hit by a GS should be pretty dead if the hit connects.

Etc.

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Doggie.3184:

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Dark Souls logic belongs in Dark Souls. If you want a Dark Souls experience, play Dark Souls. Not an MMO, unless it is Dark Souls Online or something.

The answer to balance considerations isn’t “do what a game I like that is in no way similar does”. That’s insane, like all arguments about “realism” in a fantastical video game.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Doggie.3184:

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Dark Souls logic belongs in Dark Souls. If you want a Dark Souls experience, play Dark Souls. Not an MMO, unless it is Dark Souls Online or something.

The answer to balance considerations isn’t “do what a game I like that is in no way similar does”. That’s insane, like all arguments about “realism” in a fantastical video game.

The problem is such “Lack of Logic” goes against the point of even having armor tiers in the first place. Mine as well remove the light/heavy/medium tiers completely and just give classes new base stats and/or stat scaling. Why the hell am I wearing medium armor when I could still run like a speed-demon with heavy appearance?

LordByron.8369:

killahmayne.9518:

Sword+Warhorn/GS warriors are exceptional at running and killing upleveled baddies/first time WVW’ers.

There you go.

Well should i tell you how to use mobility?
What about taking a far target and putting it into combat because you havethe best mobility in game, so your party mates can catch you fast, costantly having the freedom to choose numeric advantage fights?

Most warriors do that...because they seems to like 4VS1 a lot.
This ended up being the mirror discussion about thieves....

And i still don t get why elementalist that has nothing, is denied any form of mobility while profession having everything have the best in game.

Most mobility warriors I have seen tend to roam solo, but that is besides the point because arguing whether they like to roam solo or 4vs1 alot is a moot argument. In WvW it seems like everybody likes to 4v1 or have the advantage.

What is the counter to not being caught 4vs1? Don’t roam alone. Or at least roam near a decent sized party or be a part of the party. Or be close to your own keep or supply camp. If you get caught 4vs1 it is your fault, and if you roam alone you have pretty much accepted the fact that you are fighting those type of battles, the hell lol it’s the life you chose. If you find yourself running from a mobility warrior and you are out of combat, just waypoint. If he is alone just kill him or at least scare him off. They are pretty much your wannabe thief except more tankier and not nearly as much killing power.

I run a GS warrior, with no - condition duration food/runes, no 25% movement speed, no zerker stance and 75% uptime on swiftness. I roam alone many times and sometimes in groups of two. I have come to peace with the fact that thieves, elementalists, gs rangers and most warriors will likely catch up to me if I disengage.

Point is, even if you have average mobility and disengage, if you are smart and have map awareness, know the positioning of some of your servermates, use terrain to your advantage, that a good player should be able to avoid getting caught in those situations most of the time just as you argued that a "good mobility warrior should be able to bring somebody in combat for their partymates to kill" . The exact opposite of what you said is true.

Rangers, Warriors, Thieves, Elementalists, Engineers, Mesmers all have that ability if they are smart to disengage and avoid outnumbered situations and they don’t even need to sacrifice a whole lot, they can do so at will. Even Guardians can do so, although they have to sacrifice a bit more. Necros, well, lets say they are very limited in that aspect and have to burn a utility to disengage.

Roaming is a strategy, not an official game mode. The warrior using sword/wh/gs does so with a strategy in mind. He is utilizing himself as a distraction and bait, perhaps engaging in fights then pulling out in order to lure people into their own zergs, or just to simply thin out a zerg’s numbers by having people chase him. Or perhaps like you mentioned to be able to catch unsuspecting stragglers for your party to kill. Trolling is a strategy too believe it or not. Anybody who is really angry at this warrior’s ability to disengage is likely to be stupid enough to fall for his tactics.

I don’t care for it or get upset because I know what their tactics are, and I know how to counter those tactics, whether I am playing a Warrior, or a Mesmer or any other class. If this build had a lot of killing power, then perhaps the complaining is justified. But this build has zero CC other than Flurry and what is equipped in their utility bar. That is literally all you need to worry about. Flurry is easy to avoid. I’m sorry but I just don’t know how this build is killing anybody in a 1v1.

Sure, mobility needs to be tweaked slightly in this game, I don’t refute that. However, at that point it becomes more of an overall mobility issue not a warrior issue. And in my opinion it is far from OP because of the tradeoffs involved and the tactics that can be used to counter the objective of such a mobility warrior. I don’t get why people complain about one Warrior mobility build when clearly a thief is 3x worse.

A thief can actually kill you very quickly without you seeing it coming, can have extremely high mobility regardless of the weapon set and disengage a lot better because they have stealth, and are difficult to kill because of their mechanics.

Honestly if my objective was to hit and run, troll, distract, bait and actually kill people, I would play a thief over a sword/wh/gs warrior any day of the week.

It all just comes back to that imbalance of the disengage abilities per class alongside their other pros/cons. What people are complaining about is that yes warriors can disengage but they can also be just as consciously aware of their surroundings like anyone else but on top of that they have ease of disengagement with the synergies in their easy to access trait lines coupled with utilities further strengthened by weapon abilities.

So they have good traits, weapon abilities, and utilities to disengage at less of a sacrifice then other classes on top of the fact that their disengage abilities are arguable better and on shorter CD.

this profession needs to be erased and redesigned

chris.6583:

this profession needs to be erased and redesigned

Of course it has to be. Precisely because you said so.
Must be true.

I’m getting real tired of this attitude. One of the best balanced classes in the game is not going to get reworked. If anything other classes will be brought up.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Doggie.3184:

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Dark Souls logic belongs in Dark Souls. If you want a Dark Souls experience, play Dark Souls. Not an MMO, unless it is Dark Souls Online or something.

The answer to balance considerations isn’t “do what a game I like that is in no way similar does”. That’s insane, like all arguments about “realism” in a fantastical video game.

This is the reason why we can’t have nice things.

Aridia.3042:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Doggie.3184:

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Dark Souls logic belongs in Dark Souls. If you want a Dark Souls experience, play Dark Souls. Not an MMO, unless it is Dark Souls Online or something.

The answer to balance considerations isn’t “do what a game I like that is in no way similar does”. That’s insane, like all arguments about “realism” in a fantastical video game.

This is the reason why we can’t have nice things.

You could either be agreeing with me, or commenting that my stance is detrimental to the improvement of Guild Wars 2. I have a suspicion you’re being snarky against me, but without proof, I’ll just let your ambiguity simmer at a low boil.

To clarify, I’m not saying Dark Souls isn’t a well-designed game. You just can’t shoehorn mechanics from one game into another just because you like the first. GW2 isn’t a medieval combat simulator.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Aridia.3042:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Doggie.3184:

It’s so weird how the class with the HEAVIEST ARMOR somehow moves faster than everyone else in the game. .-. Guardian is the other Heavy class and he definitely moves like he is. They’re pretty slow. Why is Warrior so crazy fast with all that weight?

Need to throw some Dark Souls logic into this game when it comes to armor. .-.
Heavy = slower and fat-rolls. XD

Dark Souls logic belongs in Dark Souls. If you want a Dark Souls experience, play Dark Souls. Not an MMO, unless it is Dark Souls Online or something.

The answer to balance considerations isn’t “do what a game I like that is in no way similar does”. That’s insane, like all arguments about “realism” in a fantastical video game.

This is the reason why we can’t have nice things.

You could either be agreeing with me, or commenting that my stance is detrimental to the improvement of Guild Wars 2. I have a suspicion you’re being snarky against me, but without proof, I’ll just let your ambiguity simmer at a low boil.

To clarify, I’m not saying Dark Souls isn’t a well-designed game. You just can’t shoehorn mechanics from one game into another just because you like the first. GW2 isn’t a medieval combat simulator.

You don’t need to be a simulator to have checks and balances. That’s what’s missing from this game.

As pointed out by numerous people, the design choices in this game are arbitrary which is what makes it LOL bad. You seem to think one class having highest armor/hp/def/gap closer/range and melee is for good balance; I don’t. You have to ask yourself, why shouldn’t you want all those? There’s no downside to having them, if that’s the case, it’s not balanced. Look at something like ele. Lowest armor and HP but there’s no benefit to it. They don’t dodge more often, they don’t dodge faster, they don’t regen faster either. This is where Dark Souls spanks this game, as choices matter, even down to equipment weight.

If they want proper balance in this game, first thing they should do is make equipment weight affect regen and dodge speed like DS. Then you’d actually have something meaningful to balance against.

If you don’t like the fundamental design choices made by the game and established since release, what are you doing here? You are free to enjoy design decisions for other games that make every little choice as meaningful as possible, but when you try to list benefits and you lump “armor” and “def” together, you’re just reaching for excuses to blame the game. Like most people.

I enjoy the fundamental design of this game and want to help improve it by providing feedback. You seem to just want to drag discussions down into a mire, or take the game back to the drawing board and turn it into something it isn’t.

I just don’t know why you’re here. Like a jilted lover just looking for some sort of emotional recompense that you’ll never truly receive, especially from forums.

Harper.4173:

chris.6583:

this profession needs to be erased and redesigned

Of course it has to be. Precisely because you said so.
Must be true.

I’m getting real tired of this attitude. One of the best balanced classes in the game is not going to get reworked. If anything other classes will be brought up.

lol, it was a joke, and if warrior is balanced must be another joke

Aridia.3042:

You seem to think one class having highest armor/hp/def/gap closer/range and melee is for good balance; I don’t.

Cogbryn never claimed this.
Just wanted to point that out.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If you don’t like the fundamental design choices made by the game and established since release, what are you doing here? You are free to enjoy design decisions for other games that make every little choice as meaningful as possible, but when you try to list benefits and you lump “armor” and “def” together, you’re just reaching for excuses to blame the game. Like most people.

I enjoy the fundamental design of this game and want to help improve it by providing feedback. You seem to just want to drag discussions down into a mire, or take the game back to the drawing board and turn it into something it isn’t.

I just don’t know why you’re here. Like a jilted lover just looking for some sort of emotional recompense that you’ll never truly receive, especially from forums.

Again, this is the reason why we can’t have nice things.

killahmayne.9518:

I have come to peace with the fact that thieves, elementalists, gs rangers and most warriors will likely catch up to me if I disengage.
.

You hsould compare GS mobility to elementalist CD…..
That is more than enough to flee.

I totally agree with you op, Thumps Up!.

LordByron.8369:

killahmayne.9518:

I have come to peace with the fact that thieves, elementalists, gs rangers and most warriors will likely catch up to me if I disengage.
.

You hsould compare GS mobility to elementalist CD…..
That is more than enough to flee.

Ride the Lightning, Burning Speed and Teleport?

Let see
Whirlwind attack cd 10 for 450 is comparable to burning speed (even if i d argue swiftness impact less burning speed)
Bladetrail on 15 seconds beats 2,5 times ride the lightning on 40 sec CD and only 250 more range (nobody gets hit by RTL long range) and have the same range assuming swiftness (conditions and CC are extremely hard to apply to warriors).

UTILITIES:
Are you comparing a single weapon warrior without utilities and not build for speed with the best speed build ele has?

So the least mobile warrior is still MORE mobile compared to the most mobile ele.

LordByron.8369:

Let see
Whirlwind attack cd 10 for 450 is comparable to burning speed (even if i d argue swiftness impact less burning speed)
Bladetrail on 15 seconds beats 2,5 times ride the lightning on 40 sec CD and only 250 more range (nobody gets hit by RTL long range) and have the same range assuming swiftness (conditions and CC are extremely hard to apply to warriors).

UTILITIES:
Are you comparing a single weapon warrior without utilities and not build for speed with the best speed build ele has?

So the least mobile warrior is still MORE mobile compared to the most mobile ele.

Fiery Whirl
Range: 900
5 second cooldown

Whirlwind Attack
Range: 450
10 second cooldown

Fiery Rush
Range: 900
10 second cooldown

Rush
Range: 1,200
20 second cooldown

Even with the 20% trait that no Warrior build usually has Fiery Greatsword is far faster. Fiery Greatsword is the best Elementalist elite by far so you have no excuse to not have it while roaming and if you plan on Meteor Shower glitching just switch to Tornado before the fight.

I already told you…
An ele with a FGS in hand can t fight anything but a PVE boss near a wall…
And its 180 CD so no…..

(to fight you ele needs to drop the sword and sacrifice the elite… while casting the same you already get a nice advantage….)

And that is an elite….

P.S. and once again no… reaper of grenth and glyph of elementals are way better for “fighting”.
The FGS is only used to escape or to catch your zerg….

I do not feel utility skill are relevant because they take up a resource. In this case the resource is limited utility slots. I think the problem is with the great sword itself.

As I see it, a weapon skill that offers mobility of this nature simply should require a targeting component. Whirling attack requires a direction ground target, so I see no problem with it. I feel the problem lies in skills like “rush”. As I see it, the simple solution is to require weapon skills such as rush to have a target in range to function. If they target a creature outside of the scope of battle with another player for example, their mobility is limited, because they will be limited to in combat movement speed, and and limit the direction they can us it. As well, if there is not a creature outside of the scope of the player to player battle, they cannot use it.

I actually really appreciate that GW2 gives players the freedom to use mobility skills flexibly to adapt to situations. Like Savage Leaping over a gap, etc. It really adds good flavor to the dynamic flow of both fighting and simply traveling around the in-game world.

I’d rather watch a Warrior escape every once in a while than sacrifice the freedom the current system provides.

LordByron.8369:

I already told you…
An ele with a FGS in hand can t fight anything but a PVE boss near a wall…
And its 180 CD so no…..

(to fight you ele needs to drop the sword and sacrifice the elite… while casting the same you already get a nice advantage….)

And that is an elite….

P.S. and once again no… reaper of grenth and glyph of elementals are way better for “fighting”.
The FGS is only used to escape or to catch your zerg….

Why can’t I move faster than a Warrior taking mobility skills by taking no mobility skills. Terrible mods.

No one has mentioned that if a thief tries to catch up with a warrior – he probably will. BUT when he does, he will likely have zero initiative while the warrior has multiple abilities on two weapon sets available.

It’s happened to me more than a couple times. I have a hard time backing off, but it’s not a winnable fight. Thief mobility comes at a direct cost of damage ability. Even traited for more initiative, 2 infiltrator’s arrows are enough to leave you with not even enough for one cloak and dagger. No switching to another weapon set – doesn’t matter because have no initiative.

My warrior is level 67, mostly PvE, and it’s just sad. Mismatched gear, multiple levels behind, no thought put into points, and he sits there and face-rolls champions while afk. My level 80 full ascended thief can’t do that.

Warrior design is just stupid. Anyone who disagrees has either not played another class or hasn’t played a warrior.

Kincaidia.3192:

No one has mentioned that if a thief tries to catch up with a warrior – he probably will. BUT when he does, he will likely have zero initiative while the warrior has multiple abilities on two weapon sets available.

It’s happened to me more than a couple times. I have a hard time backing off, but it’s not a winnable fight. Thief mobility comes at a direct cost of damage ability. Even traited for more initiative, 2 infiltrator’s arrows are enough to leave you with not even enough for one cloak and dagger. No switching to another weapon set – doesn’t matter because have no initiative.

My warrior is level 67, mostly PvE, and it’s just sad. Mismatched gear, multiple levels behind, no thought put into points, and he sits there and face-rolls champions while afk. My level 80 full ascended thief can’t do that.

Warrior design is just stupid. Anyone who disagrees has either not played another class or hasn’t played a warrior.

I’ve played both warrior and other classes – including thief.
If you want sad i’ll tell you sad- a level 40 something thief in WvW cannot die unless he wants to or is not even bothering. That’s how strong stealth and some of the mechanics of the class are.

The warrior mobility would be fine if not for their absurd defenses. But yeah, something has got to give here and the sooner ANet gets that one class can’t and shouldn’t have everything the better for the game as a whole. Are you warriors really happy with playing a crutch class?

So let’s see….. the Q.Q brigade got hambow and warrior sustain nerfed over the past few patches, but it’s not enough. Now, you want to nerf the most mobile weaponset at the warrior’s disposal….. cuz you can’t deal ?

Did you even think about the fact that warriors NEED mobility since our primary mode of attack is… melee damage ?

i’ve played the melandru mobile strikes greatsword swordmain warrior with leek&poultry. And it’s a build that’s adapted to roaming and choosing your fights, not maximal damage. Because when you’re roaming, you HAVE to choose your fights, otherwise you’re just a free bag for the gankers. And even with anticondifood, get in range of a necro or engy with the 7 icenades and you’re in real trouble.

Could it be possible that it’s what you’re looking for ? free warriors bags with a side of QQ ? i betcha you’re the type that goes " GET BACK HERE YOU! me and my friends want to gank you!"

Kaga.7629:

So let’s see….. the Q.Q brigade got hambow and warrior sustain nerfed over the past few patches, but it’s not enough. Now, you want to nerf the most mobile weaponset at the warrior’s disposal….. cuz you can’t deal ?

Did you even think about the fact that warriors NEED mobility since our primary mode of attack is… melee damage ?

i’ve played the melandru mobile strikes greatsword swordmain warrior with leek&poultry. And it’s a build that’s adapted to roaming and choosing your fights, not maximal damage. Because when you’re roaming, you HAVE to choose your fights, otherwise you’re just a free bag for the gankers. And even with anticondifood, get in range of a necro or engy with the 7 icenades and you’re in real trouble.

Could it be possible that it’s what you’re looking for ? free warriors bags with a side of QQ ? i betcha you’re the type that goes " GET BACK HERE YOU! me and my friends want to gank you!"

A) They are literally refereed to by devs as gap closers, not gap makers.

B) Anets Balance Philosophy and Professional opinions, posted by Jonathan Sharp list where warriors are intended to thrive and mobility is not one of them. To the contrary it list that “They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions” , mobile strikes and dogged march, that contradict this.

C) The profession with the highest HP pool, Highest defense availability (armor+toughness) is over reaching to also have the ability to escape so easily. If you pick your fights so well my friend, why do you feel you need such easy mobility and escape options? Your argument contradicts itself on this point.

Personally I have leveled all 8 professions to 80, primarily in WvW. I have my own experiences with my warrior in comparison to my other professions. I hardly call applied logic and common sense comparison “Q Q” as you put it. You warriors didn’t mind Q Q ing all over the forums to nerf eles mobility or engineers grenade damage. It is fine to complain about the other professions but the second it is your main you all of the sudden take issue and speak in derogatory terms.

coglin.1867:

Kaga.7629:

So let’s see….. the Q.Q brigade got hambow and warrior sustain nerfed over the past few patches, but it’s not enough. Now, you want to nerf the most mobile weaponset at the warrior’s disposal….. cuz you can’t deal ?

Did you even think about the fact that warriors NEED mobility since our primary mode of attack is… melee damage ?

i’ve played the melandru mobile strikes greatsword swordmain warrior with leek&poultry. And it’s a build that’s adapted to roaming and choosing your fights, not maximal damage. Because when you’re roaming, you HAVE to choose your fights, otherwise you’re just a free bag for the gankers. And even with anticondifood, get in range of a necro or engy with the 7 icenades and you’re in real trouble.

Could it be possible that it’s what you’re looking for ? free warriors bags with a side of QQ ? i betcha you’re the type that goes " GET BACK HERE YOU! me and my friends want to gank you!"

A) They are literally refereed to by devs as gap closers, not gap makers.

B) Anets Balance Philosophy and Professional opinions, posted by Jonathan Sharp list where warriors are intended to thrive and mobility is not one of them. To the contrary it list that “They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions” , mobile strikes and dogged march, that contradict this.

C) The profession with the highest HP pool, Highest defense availability (armor+toughness) is over reaching to also have the ability to escape so easily. If you pick your fights so well my friend, why do you feel you need such easy mobility and escape options? Your argument contradicts itself on this point.

Personally I have leveled all 8 professions to 80, primarily in WvW. I have my own experiences with my warrior in comparison to my other professions. I hardly call applied logic and common sense comparison “Q Q” as you put it. You warriors didn’t mind Q Q ing all over the forums to nerf eles mobility or engineers grenade damage. It is fine to complain about the other professions but the second it is your main you all of the sudden take issue and speak in derogatory terms.

Everything you said is spot on, not that it matters much since Anet has repeatedly stated in the past that they wont nerf warriors by too much because “They are in good spot”, and they don’t want to buff other classes to the warrior’s level at all because of “Power Creep”. Both quoted phrases are phrases that Anet uses WAY too often to describe balance in this game.

Harper.4173:

I’ve played both warrior and other classes – including thief.
If you want sad i’ll tell you sad- a level 40 something thief in WvW cannot die unless he wants to or is not even bothering. That’s how strong stealth and some of the mechanics of the class are.

Agreed. But that level 40 thief abusing stealth is not going to put a dent in anyone. Nor is he going to keep up with a warrior, and should he catch him it will be same outcome as a dog catching a car.

Warriors need mobility if they’re melee’ing. But those should be offensive skills to get close to a target, not defensive. That’s what the argument here. These are the skills with the official descriptions:

Whirlwind Attack should require a target
Whirl in a target’s direction, slashing foes along your path

Rush should require a target
Charge and strike your foe

Bull’s Charge should require a target
Charge your foe and knock down fleeing foes.

Savage leap should require a target
Lunge at your foe and strike them with your sword

I’ll even throw you a bone and say that Heart Seeker should function the same way:
Heart Seeker
Leap and strike your foe. The less health your target has, the more damage you cause.

Most Guardian skills already work this way

Judge’s Intervention
Teleport to your target and burn nearby foes.

Merciful Intervention
Teleport to the nearest ally with the lowest health and create a healing area around them.

They require a target, and if they didn’t, they would be considered broken.

coglin.1867:

A) They are literally refereed to by devs as gap closers, not gap makers.

Strawman argument. We’re talking about mobility here. Good try.

coglin.1867:

B) Anets Balance Philosophy and Professional opinions, posted by Jonathan Sharp list where warriors are intended to thrive and mobility is not one of them. To the contrary it list that “They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions” , mobile strikes and dogged march, that contradict this.

Oh, so turn back the clock 6 months back to when warriors had one viable build with cleanse (soldier rune shoutheals) , undo all the boosts, kitten warriors, get your free bags here? I dont think so. Don’t even try quoting stuff from the dark ages of guild wars 2 ( most probably out of context too). The game has been out for more than a year . Things change. The game evolves. DEAL WITH IT.

coglin.1867:

C) The profession with the highest HP pool, Highest defense availability (armor+toughness) is over reaching to also have the ability to escape so easily. If you pick your fights so well my friend, why do you feel you need such easy mobility and escape options? Your argument contradicts itself on this point.

You’re going about it totally backwards. It’s not like ALL warriors can do this… you have to build and get specific weapons and utilities to get this mobility… which ALLOWS you to choose your fights. It doesn’t happen automagically.

As a solo roamer, you get caught up by a posse and you’re done. So the mobility setup is so you don’t go across the map to get farmed in 4.3 seconds by a 5 man ganksquad. Hence choosing your battles : you use your movement to not get farmed. And reset fights every now and then when things aren’t going your way. If thieves can disengage, why can’t warriors? Just let him run and go gank someone else. Accept the stalemate.

coglin.1867:

You warriors didn’t mind Q Q ing all over the forums to nerf eles mobility or engineers grenade damage. It is fine to complain about the other professions but the second it is your main you all of the sudden take issue and speak in derogatory terms.

Read my history. Try to find me kittening on other profession’s forums. I double dare you.

Kincaidia.3192:

Harper.4173:

I’ve played both warrior and other classes – including thief.
If you want sad i’ll tell you sad- a level 40 something thief in WvW cannot die unless he wants to or is not even bothering. That’s how strong stealth and some of the mechanics of the class are.

Agreed. But that level 40 thief abusing stealth is not going to put a dent in anyone. Nor is he going to keep up with a warrior, and should he catch him it will be same outcome as a dog catching a car.

Warriors need mobility if they’re melee’ing. But those should be offensive skills to get close to a target, not defensive. That’s what the argument here. These are the skills with the official descriptions:

Whirlwind Attack should require a target
Whirl in a target’s direction, slashing foes along your path

Rush should require a target
Charge and strike your foe

Bull’s Charge should require a target
Charge your foe and knock down fleeing foes.

Savage leap should require a target
Lunge at your foe and strike them with your sword

I’ll even throw you a bone and say that Heart Seeker should function the same way:
Heart Seeker
Leap and strike your foe. The less health your target has, the more damage you cause.

Most Guardian skills already work this way

Judge’s Intervention
Teleport to your target and burn nearby foes.

Merciful Intervention
Teleport to the nearest ally with the lowest health and create a healing area around them.

They require a target, and if they didn’t, they would be considered broken.

this is one of the most broken comment i’ve ever seen in this forum, whos how much a wvw zergling knows about this game.

I see mobility on the warrior as a problem because it counters the only effective way to counter some of their more common builds which is bursting hard while avoiding their cc. The amount of skills necessary to deal damage while avoiding theirs with minimal opportunities for him to heal are astronomical. You can’t pace yourself because he will out heal you nor can you burst him hard putting yourself on too much CD for when he temporarily retreats. I can only see classes that attack with large advantages such as mesmers (damage while stealthed and aegis, protection, and regeneration while visible + non projectile ranged attacks) and thieves (high burst damage from stealth, decent poison access, good mobility, and no weapon cool downs) doing extremely well pacing a fight.

Stability is a waste of time since it is normally on large cd’s and warriors mobility with limited competition allows them to wait it out. Defensive conditions are useless at the start of the fight which depending on the class puts you on a defensive for 8-10 seconds with no guarantee of him sticking around afterwards if he didn’t severly cripple you during that time. I feel like the best ability to fight a warrior which allows you to deal damage while pacing the fight is honestly the block and counter abilities but those are on some of the worst weapons the game has ever seen (mesmer scepter, Guardian mace, and greatsword ranger all of which are imo).

The only kind of good warriors that can possible die are the ones that are tied to an objective or have far too much pride to run (this is also the case with thieves).

Kaga.7629:

Strawman argument. We’re talking about mobility here. Good try.

Interesting, I stated literal facts, and you call that “strawman”??? That doesn’t seem like a very solid argument, but I guess your just grasping at straws (see what I did there?)

Kaga.7629:

Oh, so turn back the clock 6 months back to when warriors had one viable build with cleanse (soldier rune shoutheals) , undo all the boosts, kitten warriors, get your free bags here? I dont think so. Don’t even try quoting stuff from the dark ages of guild wars 2 ( most probably out of context too). The game has been out for more than a year . Things change. The game evolves. DEAL WITH IT.

I don’t follow you here. What does any of that have to do with mobility? I guess when no logical argument is avaliable you feel an illogical one is the proper path???

Kaga.7629:

You’re going about it totally backwards. It’s not like ALL warriors can do this… you have to build and get specific weapons and utilities to get this mobility… which ALLOWS you to choose your fights. It doesn’t happen automagically.

All you have to do is arm a greatsword. That is not building for anything. I literally suggested one small change to one skill, and your making a very strong effort to bury my listed facts and logic in a pill of “illogical”……You wouldn’t happen to be a lawyer or politician would you???

Kaga.7629:

As a solo roamer, you get caught up by a posse and you’re done. So the mobility setup is so you don’t go across the map to get farmed in 4.3 seconds by a 5 man ganksquad. Hence choosing your battles : you use your movement to not get farmed. And reset fights every now and then when things aren’t going your way. If thieves can disengage, why can’t warriors? Just let him run and go gank someone else. Accept the stalemate.

Wait….. what? Your most logical defense is that if a full group or more runs across you that you might die? How quaint. You actually believe your preferred profession should be balanced against an entire group. Well, let me ask you this. What are the other professions with less Hp or less base armor , or both, who all have less mobility supposed to do?? Why do you deem those of us listing facts, logic, and common sense “Q Q ing” as you accuse us, but your illogical comparisons and unreasonable replies are supposed to be taken seriously??

Kaga.7629:

Read my history. Try to find me kittening on other profession’s forums. I double dare you.

Thank you for offering support for my argument in this one single line. You have no experience with other professions, but attack anyone else who opposes you sense of balance. You sir, should either become a comedian or run for congress. I applaud your ability to make a sane mans head spin.