Guild Wars 2

I’m going to look at this purely from a WvW viewpoint.

The ability of a couple Warriors to chase after or run away doesn’t matter. A single player escaping a fight doesn’t significantly influence the outcome of a WvW matchup. The same applies to a Warrior chasing you. Sure, it sucks if you die but again, your death didn’t matter. What matters in WvW is taking points, roaming is good fun but isn’t important when it comes to winning.

The most valuable application of Warrior mobility would be a group of them going around flipping camps and maybe taking undefended towers and the like. Even then, the same could be said about any coordinated group of the same class. So many of you are looking at the small picture and totally ignoring the larger picture. In a zerg it doesn’t matter how fast you are seeing as you can only go as fast as the zerg.

If a Warrior runs away from the fight you should just count is as a win. I said this before but a Thief/Mesmer’s ability to go stealth for a long period of time while healing up is waaaay more useful because they can still stay around the battle. When a Warrior leaves they have to run all the way back which chances are will be too late.

TL;DR: What happens on the small scale of WvW is not significant enough to balance around.

It doesn’t matter that they can freely slap yaks and hop/cap camps while evading/being nearly immune to cc? It’s fine that it would take a coordinated team of other classes to do the aprox the same? Yea… I disagree with that.

That being said though, it’s only in WvW where this matters. WvW “balance” is nearly non-existant.

Maybe www balance is non existant…but wen you see warrior zergs with warrior scout and warrior roamers you start to question if something is excessive.

Aberrant.6749:

It doesn’t matter that they can freely slap yaks and hop/cap camps while evading/being nearly immune to cc? It’s fine that it would take a coordinated team of other classes to do the aprox the same? Yea… I disagree with that.

That being said though, it’s only in WvW where this matters. WvW “balance” is nearly non-existant.

It doesn’t change the fact that in the overall picture of things most of what you named will HELP with winning but won’t be the thing that actually wins it.

Honestly, SF may not be the best WvW server out there but I don’t see an excessive number of Warriors on any of our matchups. In fact, I see scores more thieves and mesmers these days than anything else, and even then it only feels slightly above average. I’ve actually been seeing a proportionate representation of each class for the most part.

I will agree that balance in WvW means jack. The addition on armor differences and numerous buffs make some things waaaay stronger than they normally are.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Cogbyrn.7283:

LordByron.8369:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Build designed for burst mobility has high burst mobility, but also requires Condi Immunity to even work

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire

That was the absolute worst response you could have possibly countered with. But let’s roll with it:

Warrior has Sword+X/Greatsword. Warrior needs to get away from a group, or get out of a bad encounter in general. He doesn’t have condi immunity up, but he has xXx Cleansing Ire xXx_Sephiroth at his disposal. He’s in one of two places:

1. Right next to the group/person he is escaping from: he turns and uses his Burst ability to clear up to 3 of the conditions on him, freeing him up to then turn and start to run. But whoops, jeeze, many cripples/chills can be cast at range. Uh oh.

2. At a distance from the group/person: he needs to land the Burst ability to clear the conditions, so he turns and runs back into the fight. I hope he has enough time!

Neither of those situations is what a Warrior wants when trying to escape. They want to be clear of condis, and then be immune to them. The only weapon that can use Cleansing Ire when in the process of exiting that doesn’t require turning and landing an attack on an opponent in melee (or with a 3 second cast at range) is the Longbow. Word on the street is, that weapon isn’t very mobile.

It’s hard to imagine a stronger pair of blinders as to how the game actually works. I chill/immobilize Warriors who are just starting to Rush extremely often. It isn’t even difficult. It’s one of the easier reads in the game. Warrior turns his back on you, odds are he’s going to be running out. You can even sense when a fight is going against him and prepare for it.

Cleansing Ire. Almost laughed out loud in my office.

While he made a mistake, you’re still wrong. Just use your GS Spin2Win and Savage Leap. You’ve created some impressive distance by now. Now you just have to toot in your horn to clear all cripples and chills and you’re free to go. Simple as that.

^^ This. Whirlwind Attack>Rush>Savage Leap>Charge – GL keeping up. That’s considering you’re not a banner regen bunker in tPvP and use Quick Breathing – making it all the more easy to douce the meow out.

coglin.1867:

Harper.4173:

Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.

Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.

Harper.4173:

I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.

Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.

Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.
That and many others.

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

Aberrant.6749:

It doesn’t matter that they can freely slap yaks and hop/cap camps while evading/being nearly immune to cc? It’s fine that it would take a coordinated team of other classes to do the aprox the same? Yea… I disagree with that.

That being said though, it’s only in WvW where this matters. WvW “balance” is nearly non-existant.

Except for necros and guardians what class can’t slap yaks?
What coordinated team do you need to slap yaks?

Please tell me you’re joking.
I’ve been leveling my thief in WvW by doing precisely this. My thief is level 40 something. Please get a valid argument.

Harper.4173:

coglin.1867:

Harper.4173:

Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.

Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.

Harper.4173:

I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.

Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.

Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.
That and many others.

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

You have to realize what you said also means that elementalists sacrifice even more to have disengage abilities. Not only do they have to set an elite, FGS, but that also occupies their weapon slots just like a warrior. Add to that the CD and also add to that they’d have to add LF which is another utility slot gone if they want the extra distance. So not only is it a weapon skill for eles but also an elite and utilities. So in the end they’re sacrificing much more.

As far as the design philosophy for wars, I’m pretty sure it was recently stated by the devs and saying it has changed is also going against their current aim which so to decrease warrior regen in lieu of current issues. The dev’s have said so much in their own class descriptions and philosophies that haven’t been completely proven… yet, aka Rangers currently (ranged supremecy? lol) but it doesn’t mean that they aren’t aiming to achieve those things albeit they aren’t doing a fantastic job of it (i.e. new Ranger LB GM).

ReesesPBC.4603:

Harper.4173:

coglin.1867:

Harper.4173:

Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.

Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.

Harper.4173:

I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.

Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.

Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.
That and many others.

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

You have to realize what you said also means that elementalists sacrifice even more to have disengage abilities. Not only do they have to set an elite, FGS, but that also occupies their weapon slots just like a warrior. Add to that the CD and also add to that they’d have to add LF which is another utility slot gone if they want the extra distance. So not only is it a weapon skill for eles but also an elite and utilities. So in the end they’re sacrificing much more.

As far as the design philosophy for wars, I’m pretty sure it was recently stated by the devs and saying it has changed is also going against their current aim which so to decrease warrior regen in lieu of current issues. The dev’s have said so much in their own class descriptions and philosophies that haven’t been completely proven… yet, aka Rangers currently (ranged supremecy? lol) but it doesn’t mean that they aren’t aiming to achieve those things albeit they aren’t doing a fantastic job of it (i.e. new Ranger LB GM).

Warrior sacrifices by using weapons that cannot kill decent moving targets on their own and require a second weapon with the ability to CC or an easily dodged utility. All an Elementalist has to do is use their current best elite anyways to have the some of the best mobility in the game and its almost double the speed of a Warrior.

I understand that warriors have to use certain weapons for mobility but to say they cannot kill with them is untrue. It’s dependent on the skill of the player as well.

My comparison was this for instance:

War: Typical GS & S/Sh/Sw/A or A/Sh A/S or Hammer.

They’ll have 2 weapon sets, most likely on a 5 sec cooldown between them, that they can use for DPS alongside mobility. All the weapon mobility skills have been previously listed but Hammer burst has a decent range on it as well, compared to the lol range a guard has on hammer2. Plus they have free slots for utilities and elites and even more mobility.

Ele: Standard d/d roamer

They’ll have at the start RTL, fire3, air5 for swiftness, LF but after that they HAVE to switch to the FGS to get away. That of course doesn’t just have a 5 second CD AND it’s an elite so if they wanted to use it to burn someone down or run away they’d have to choose between either on a muuuuch longer CD meaning they’re ability to disengage is extremely hampered by time constraints.

In this comparison an ele doesn’t “just” have to use their elite, they have to sacrifice for it, which I don’t understand is so horrible for the warrior class when it can have mobility on one set and whatever they like on another compared to ele’s 120-CD-1-weaponset-get-away elite.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Harper.4173:

coglin.1867:

Harper.4173:

Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.

Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.

Harper.4173:

I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.

Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.

Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.
That and many others.

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

You have to realize what you said also means that elementalists sacrifice even more to have disengage abilities. Not only do they have to set an elite, FGS, but that also occupies their weapon slots just like a warrior. Add to that the CD and also add to that they’d have to add LF which is another utility slot gone if they want the extra distance. So not only is it a weapon skill for eles but also an elite and utilities. So in the end they’re sacrificing much more.

As far as the design philosophy for wars, I’m pretty sure it was recently stated by the devs and saying it has changed is also going against their current aim which so to decrease warrior regen in lieu of current issues. The dev’s have said so much in their own class descriptions and philosophies that haven’t been completely proven… yet, aka Rangers currently (ranged supremecy? lol) but it doesn’t mean that they aren’t aiming to achieve those things albeit they aren’t doing a fantastic job of it (i.e. new Ranger LB GM).

Yes – and if you bring up eles sacrificing that much let me bring up thieves who can 1 utility skill stealth and walk away like nothing’s happened.
Or let’s bring up mesmers who can blink and stealth and be gone.

Each class has its pros and cons. Eles can rain a LOT of damage and a well played ele is a tough target to crack. Also with the upcoming buffs to ele ( see new earth GM trait) I think we’ll be feeling less sorry for them and more for ourselves.

Decreasing warrior regen was done – we got HS nerfed. If they wanted the condi clears gone they would have changed / moved / nerfed them. They did not.

They’re trying to shave warrior off a little but the fact is that the class is around where the devs want it to be.
When the HS nerf was announced they said that they feel " warrior is in a good place " and they felt that just some things could be toned down a bit ( see HS nerf).

Harper.4173:

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Actually it very literally is about the weapons skills. I have no problem with warriors using utility skills for mobility. But being able to do so with weapons is over the top. Utilities (which really only include “bulls Rush” ) take up a resource and have longer cool downs. But you sure are argueing as if you take the stance of having it nerfed as well.

Harper.4173:

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

It is very Viable (appears you are not actually aware of that words meaning) in WvW. I am on JQ and see GS/Hammer and Hammer/Sword+War horn used very very consistently. By the way from what I can tell you are mistaking viability with player skill.

Harper.4173:

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

No it isn’t. But that is my opinion. Your welcome to yours. I am simply suggesting that any warrior utility have no need of being nerfed so I am leaving them out of the discussion. Your arguments promote nerfing utility skills that speed the warrior up.

Harper.4173:

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

So what your saying is, since you actually do not know, you refuse my challenge to share with us how other professions are do mobile.

Harper.4173:

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

It is not obvious. What it does offer evidence of, is that when warriors were considered under powered, in the buffing process, they over shot it a bit. Stop trying to out think common sense.

Harper.4173:

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.

The game isn’t even remotely grind. At all. I have never ground anything out in the game. I run WvW with my guild, do the occasion PvE. If your doing something over and over as a grind, it is because you chose to do so for your choice of purposes. To fling blame for your choice of purposes just shows a lack of ability to accept the responsibility of your own actions. As far as the loot you refer to. I Have a full set of exotics of every stat combination at my fingertips any time I want the the badges I have earned as I played like normal. Not only are your arguments here head scratchily illogical, they are irrelevant to balance.

Harper.4173:

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

No, I play a warrior on oft occasion, and I do not use those mobility weapons, and I am never a sitting duck. I find it a lacking argument to suggest that simply because you have to run from fights or die as a “sitting duck” that you assume the rest of us are stagnant at that same lesser skill level.

Many professions have no mobility in weapons skills at all, and I am having no difficulty feeling like a sitting duck on them, and they don’t have near the defenses, damage, and control combinations of my warrior.

Your perspective is as mine, a subjective. The difference is, I have the ability to understand that. Takes a unrealistic ego to suggest your or my view is other then what it is.

Coglin.

1) GS Hammer + Hammer S/ WH are not the troll builds that combine both S+WH+GS. Those builds are somewhat viable but they’re not OP. They don’t have the insane moblility people are going on about. I was referring to the troll GS + WH +S.

2)I’m not suggesting warrior utility slots should be nerfed – I’m explaining to you that everything you do in this game uses up a resource – not only using utility skills but also using weapon skills.
By having that GS instead of a longbow you’ve lost a bit of efficiency. By having a S +W H you don’t get to have an axe and make use of eviscerate.

Don’t tell me that in a fight where nobody has to move around and you don’t have to chase or run a warrior that has a Hammer and a Axe + Shied will be worse off than a warrior that has a Hammer and a GS.

3)Like I said – disregading weapon skills mesmers can blink and stealth, thieves can stealath, rangers can use GS, eles can use FGS, Engis have builds that are incredibly hard to catch and kill that are somewhat akin to the decap engi of sPVP. Guardians and necros I’ll admit have a harder time disengaging.

4)This game is grindy – and the fact that you don’t know it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
If you want a legendary, or ascended gear – you’ll have to grind for it. Sorry to break your bubble but that’s the way it is.
You’re choosing to play the game in a way that doesn’t require grind – that’s ok – but you’re not playing ALL of it.
If you want to play this game entirely and benefit from all they’ve put in the game ( high-end skins, ascended armor, legendary weapons) you will have to grind. There is no way around it.

5)The changes I’m referring to and you’re not understanding that are the changes that were brought to the defense line – cleansing ire, dogged march – the changes you’re saying to against their philosophy of warrior which would be he’s very weak to conditions.

It’s not the weapon skills – it’s these changes that made warrior viable – and as I understood you felt these changes went against their original design. I was explaining why these changes took place.

Thiefs being able to reset fights, whenever they want.
Some BS like that can really say only a person, who has never plyed a Thief for a single second at all.

If you need to burnout first all of initiative, just to be able to follow a Warriro as good as possible, then you have for at least 6 seconds not by your weapon skills any stealth to prevent being bursted down, unless you waste directly your precious utility skills, what results then just into another sacrifice of something, that could save your butt against the Op warrior for quite some time until the recharge time went by.

Fact is, Thieves are by definition supposted to be the fastest class of all. AND THEY ARE NOT

Anet has finally to significantly nerf the Healing Signet, 8% is laughable when you look at it, how many additional regeneratinos per second a player can stack up on that plus the warrior having a trait, that increases those regenerations per second, if they have maximum adrenaline.
A wariror, that uses maximum stacked up self regen and gets somehow also regen boons, is just unstopable and the manifestation of GOD MODE.

Even Elementalists can outrun thiefs, if they switch quickly between the right elemental attunements usign the right weapons
All pvp related eles just run around basically with either a scepter or dagger build, staff is just crap for anything pvp related, as its better for support or siege situations in WvW like nuking defense away with meteor shower …

Burning Speed – 15s 600 Range
RTL – 20s Hit/40s not hit, 1200 Range (launches on hit)
Magnetic Grasp/Leap – 12s 900 Range (thinking on an Ele, who is chasing someone, thats the whole point of discussion, if you can get outrunned/catched too easy)
Lightning Flash – 40s – 900 Range
FGS – Fiery Whirl – 5s!! – 900 Range !!!!!!!
FGS – Fiery Rush – 10s – 900 Range

Calculating everythign together, an Ele can spam this through in a matter of say 6 seconds and get all together a range of 5400 range

A thief with Shortbow can use use within 6 seconds
3 times Infiltrators Arrow * 900 = 2700 Range, considerign your build has nothign that improves significant faster initiative gain
Or like 6-7 times Heartseeker * 450 = 2700-3150 Range
Shadow Step – 50s – 1200 Range
Infiltrators Signet – 30s – 900 Range
Shadow Trap (only if you got your foe to run into it) kitten - Max Range 10000
However, who really uses this to catch a Warrior/Ele in the middle of a hectic combat?, lets be realistic – no one, other utilities are way to important, like Shadow Refuge, Signet of Shadows for constant 25% movement speed increase ect. and one of the other mentioned above or both would be needed to be able to catch a Warrior or Ele at all)

Add all of this together and a Thief would be able to make a range within 6 seconds of perhaps 4800 to 5250 maximum.
Means the Ele makes in most of the cases like 600 to 150 Range more!! within 6 seconds.
Now the Warrior

Whirlwind Attack – 10s – 450 Range
Rush – 20s – 1200 Range
Savage Leap – 8s – 600 Range
Bulls Charge – 40s – 600 Range
= 2850 Range

Seems on first look much lesser but do not forget, that Warrios have all of the damage blocks and CC cures for the moments where its needed to endure more than long enough so that their skills can easily recharge past 6 seconds to repeat the whole chain and if they do it, it doubles nearly their range when the Warrior smartly changes between his weapons.

In that time, are Thiefs still waiting on the Initiative regenration, while having not any super condition removal at hand to stop CCs, which also affect massively their maximum range of heartseekers…
While Eles are waiting for their recharge times too, which are significantly longer, as those of the warrior skills, if they don#t run around with FGS at the moment.

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

They are the fastest.

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

They are the fastest.

Errr, no? Warrior has more mobility with shorter cooldowns and a 100% swiftness uptime. The ranger reaches non of those.

Nothing will be done about them because of how VERY bias the Devs are. It is that simple.

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.

Please explain to me how this doesn’t apply? I’m on NA servers.

killahmayne.9518:

I find it highly contradictory that people complain about gap closing and opening yet Warrior is the only class that they complain about as if they are the only class that can do this.

This is very, very true. Warriors don’t have the best mobility, they just have great mobility, great offenses and good defenses. Singling out just the mobility doesn’t make sense. The real problem, even in this thread, appears to be Healing Signet. Warrior’s mobility hasnt been touched since launch, but buff HS and suddenly everything is good about warriors. Mind you, for a long time warriors were bottom tier, and the most important differences between then and now are healing signet and stance buffs.

I reckon the best mobility is as follows:
Ele has the best, due to Fiery GS, D/D skills and lightning flash
Then warrior, if gs+s/wh + bulls charge (decent, yet not great setup for actual combat)
Then ranger (also gs+s/wh. Hornet sting and monarch leap both in the right direction isnt hard lol) and thief.

I’m fine with these rankings.

Also necro has the best vertical mobility. Can fall as long and from as high as he wants without dying

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.

Please explain to me how this doesn’t apply? I’m on NA servers.

You can add all the leapdistances and cooldowns together and say “Yeah, the ranger should be faster”, but this simply does not work out. I’ve played my ranger for over 1,5k hours now and my warrior for 800 hours. And the warrior is faster in simply everything. In killing mobs as in running.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

killahmayne.9518:

I find it highly contradictory that people complain about gap closing and opening yet Warrior is the only class that they complain about as if they are the only class that can do this.

This is very, very true. Warriors don’t have the best mobility, they just have great mobility, great offenses and good defenses. Singling out just the mobility doesn’t make sense. The real problem, even in this thread, appears to be Healing Signet. Warrior’s mobility hasnt been touched since launch, but buff HS and suddenly everything is good about warriors. Mind you, for a long time warriors were bottom tier, and the most important differences between then and now are healing signet and stance buffs.

I reckon the best mobility is as follows:
Ele has the best, due to Fiery GS, D/D skills and lightning flash
Then warrior, if gs+s/wh + bulls charge (decent, yet not great setup for actual combat)
Then ranger (also gs+s/wh. Hornet sting and monarch leap both in the right direction isnt hard lol) and thief.

I’m fine with these rankings.

Also necro has the best vertical mobility. Can fall as long and from as high as he wants without dying

You’re a little out of date. Necros can’t fall infinite distances anymore, it got changed months ago. D/D Eles got also nerfed. Also, while I agree that a bunnyhopping thief can be as anoying as a running warrior, this is sort of what thiefs do. A warrior on the other hand is not meant to run away as he pleases.

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

Its not so much about the range and number of leaps that warriors have (although that is a part of it), but more about Dogged March and Mobile Strikes. Other classes can move fast too.. even a GS + S+WH ranger is hard to catch.. but the kicker is if they are caught in immobilise its a big problem for them. Warriors, on the other hand, and very very hard to slow down, even if you try to coutnerplay them correctly.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

So you use FGS to run away? Good joke. Also the warrior is meant to be the fastest class in game? Ontop of his survivability, toughness, damage, buff and debuff potential? Really, get your facts straight.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

glaphen.5230:

So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.

A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.

An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.

A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.

So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.

Ranger wins over anything in sustained while a Thief would win in burst if built for it.

Lol, stop theorycrafting dude, that doesn’t apply to the game, not by a long shot.
But if you don’t believe me, we can do a race. I bet my warrior wins. If you’re on EU servers, just say it, I’m up for a race.

Please explain to me how this doesn’t apply? I’m on NA servers.

You can add all the leapdistances and cooldowns together and say “Yeah, the ranger should be faster”, but this simply does not work out. I’ve played my ranger badly for over 1,5k hours now and my warrior for 800 hours. And the warrior is faster in simply everything. In killing mobs as in running.

I fixed it for you.
If it’s better on paper then it should be better in game as well. If that’s not the case for you then I suggest you look at the only difference between the theorycrafting and the actual result in game : Yourself. The player. That’s where the issues are.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

So you use FGS to run away? Good joke. Also the warrior is meant to be the fastest class in game? Ontop of his survivability, toughness, damage, buff and debuff potential? Really, get your facts straight.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

You do realize that’s exactly the case right?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/warrior/

Harper.4173:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Do you even Spectral Walk, bro?

also even with D/D’s -300 range on RtL and increased cooldown, ele is still fastest. Dat Fiery GS.
I also disagree that warriors ‘arent mean to’. That’s too subjective. After all don’t warriors have the strongest muscles and the strongest legs? :P

I also find your skill as a ranger dubious. Surely after 1.5k hrs you have mastered sword #2 to equally rival warriors sword #2? Only (!!) if the warrior equips bulls charge can he solidly outrun ranger.

So you use FGS to run away? Good joke. Also the warrior is meant to be the fastest class in game? Ontop of his survivability, toughness, damage, buff and debuff potential? Really, get your facts straight.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

You do realize that’s exactly the case right?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/warrior/

…

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

Nice try.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Simon.3794:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

They are the fastest.

Errr, no? Warrior has more mobility with shorter cooldowns and a 100% swiftness uptime. The ranger reaches non of those.

i love how you are arguing with a thief who probably has more thief experience then you will ever have, please learn to read.

fastest, most thieves mobilities are instant cast 900 range, while warriors single mobility need atleast 1 second of cast time. shorter cd only means he can long run, eventually surpass thieves in a long period of running time, like running for more then 1 mins non stop, only if he gear for mobility too.

while most meta thieves build have almost the same speed and mobile range. No matter how “fast” warriors are at long duration running, it’s useless, in pvp setup, a thief will always get to any point from home point way faster then warrior. Sure if you are just a wvwer “pro” who uses a fighting build and want to chase a “no good fighting” “good for long duration running” only war. please tell me a way to stop a thief from resetting “run away or stealth” in wvw, lets not mention these builds are also “good for fighting”. i know, cool story.

W.T.F…. Ranger… Ranger =/= Thief… I’ve never talked about the thief, where the heck do you think I’m mentioning the thief???

my bad, my head is all over those thieves who keeps complaining about warrior mobility every day, just read one few minuts ago in warrior section, which was ridiculous, i can not post repeatedly, so i’ll just edit this post,

tho my point still stands, which counters this thread’s whole idea and belief.

Simon.3794:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

glaphen.5230:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

You know who is supposed to be the fastest class in game? It’s the ranger, the skirmisher. By definition, the ranger has no burst but sustained damage.
Now this is very bad if the ranger gets outrunned by other classes. They can get bursted down easily because everyone is able to catch up to them. On the same note, ranger can’t kill anyone because they can run away.
So, following this logic, all classes should have less mobility than the ranger.

They are the fastest.

Errr, no? Warrior has more mobility with shorter cooldowns and a 100% swiftness uptime. The ranger reaches non of those.

i love how you are arguing with a thief who probably has more thief experience then you will ever have, please learn to read.

fastest, most thieves mobilities are instant cast 900 range, while warriors single mobility need atleast 1 second of cast time. shorter cd only means he can long run, eventually surpass thieves in a long period of running time, like running for more then 1 mins non stop, only if he gear for mobility too.

while most meta thieves build have almost the same speed and mobile range. No matter how “fast” warriors are at long duration running, it’s useless, in pvp setup, a thief will always get to any point from home point way faster then warrior. Sure if you are just a wvwer “pro” who uses a fighting build and want to chase a “no good fighting” “good for long duration running” only war. please tell me a way to stop a thief from resetting “run away or stealth” in wvw, lets not mention these builds are also “good for fighting”. i know, cool story.

Please, I’ve never argued about the thief. Just read my statement. I’m talking about the ranger, and as you should know, the ranger isn’t the thief.

Harper.4173:

1) GS Hammer + Hammer S/ WH are not the troll builds that combine both S+WH+GS. Those builds are somewhat viable but they’re not OP. They don’t have the insane moblility people are going on about. I was referring to the troll GS + WH +S.

You appear to confuse me with “other people”. I do not care what you think a troll build is, or what other people are complaining about. I Play all professions and leveled them to max and thus have my own opinions and thoughts. Learning about other professions might serve you well too.

Harper.4173:

2)I’m not suggesting warrior utility slots should be nerfed – I’m explaining to you that everything you do in this game uses up a resource – not only using utility skills but also using weapon skills.
By having that GS instead of a longbow you’ve lost a bit of efficiency. By having a S +W H you don’t get to have an axe and make use of eviscerate.

So? You don’t mind comparing utility skills of other professions to the warrior greatsword. You claimed “Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.” and I challenged you to prove that now for a third time and you continue to ignore it. Because you will learn that other professions lose slots for stun breakers, condition cleansing, or damage, in order to slot a mobility skill, that warriors have in weapons.

SO now you are arguing that warriors deserve your preference of damage+cc efficiency, hp efficiency, armor/toughness efficiency, and mobility efficiency. Brilliant stance to take. That angle will surely win everyone over.

Harper.4173:

Don’t tell me that in a fight where nobody has to move around and you don’t have to chase or run a warrior that has a Hammer and a Axe + Shied will be worse off than a warrior that has a Hammer and a GS.

What does any of that have to do with say, engineer, necro, guardian, or ranger……….. inability for mobility compared to warrior?

Harper.4173:

3)Like I said – disregading weapon skills mesmers can blink and stealth, thieves can stealath, rangers can use GS, eles can use FGS, Engis have builds that are incredibly hard to catch and kill that are somewhat akin to the decap engi of sPVP. Guardians and necros I’ll admit have a harder time disengaging.

Wait what? Your comparing your basic weapon skills to elites, like fiery great sword? What does stealth have to do with mobility (read the thread title)? Oh please, tell me what the engineer can use for mobility? You do not even know do you??? I bet any reply to this you use, you will have to look up, then I will have to correct you. They have to use a utility slot just to have a weapons swap, after that, “rocket boots” is their only mobility skill. How many slots would they have for a cleanse? How many slots would they have for CC?? How many slots would they have for a stun breaker??? It is not so much that you arguments (in this case in particular) are unreasonable, but they are also extremely uneducated.

Harper.4173:

4)This game is grindy – and the fact that you don’t know it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
If you want a legendary, or ascended gear – you’ll have to grind for it. Sorry to break your bubble but that’s the way it is.
You’re choosing to play the game in a way that doesn’t require grind – that’s ok – but you’re not playing ALL of it.
If you want to play this game entirely and benefit from all they’ve put in the game ( high-end skins, ascended armor, legendary weapons) you will have to grind. There is no way around it.

Your really pushing off topic here, but legendary (all 3) took me no grinding. I stored stuff as I earned it. Literally once a precurser dropped, all I had to do was go to the mystic forge and done. You really lack the ability to understand choices. YOU may chose to grind to get it fast or to buy it with gold. I simply let my game play itself earn it. Don’t call other players liars simply because you CHOSE to grind due to your impatience. BTW how many legendaries do you have?

Harper.4173:

5)The changes I’m referring to and you’re not understanding that are the changes that were brought to the defense line – cleansing ire, dogged march – the changes you’re saying to against their philosophy of warrior which would be he’s very weak to conditions.

Interesting. You promote ignoring a philosophy when it benefits your preferred main profession, but stand sternly against it for other professions. Again sir, I say Brilliant.

Not really sure how else to say that Ranger is faster than Warrior and far more deadly with the same set.

glaphen.5230:

Not really sure how else to say that Ranger is faster than Warrior and far more deadly with the same set.

Curiously enough I’ve never, ever died to a sword/warhorn greatsword ranger. And in addition, warrior is still faster.

Mobility skills should just be changed to get double the cooldown if they did not hit anything, just like the change to Ele’s RTL.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Mobility skills should just be changed to get double the cooldown if they did not hit anything, just like the change to Ele’s RTL.

That’d make too much sense. You need to think of some complex roundabout way to accomplish the same thing and then give compensation in the much need form of 1k toughness on stun break. Right guys?

… Guys?

coglin.1867:

So? You don’t mind comparing utility skills of other professions to the warrior greatsword. You claimed “Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.” and I challenged you to prove that now for a third time and you continue to ignore it. Because you will learn that other professions lose slots for stun breakers, condition cleansing, or damage, in order to slot a mobility skill, that warriors have in weapons.

I did reply to that point explaining how classes can disengage – you must have ignored it.

You lose stun breakers by using utility skills to disengage – wow.
Having a weapon that has built in mobility means that your weapon is less competent at dealing damage / applying CC. So yes – even in this case there’s a trade-off.

GS for example – great for moving around, but poor damage unless you land 100b which requires not only a set-up crutch skill to be sacrificed in order for you to have a chance to land it ( sacrificing a utility skill like you said ) but also for your opponent to be terrible to eat it all.

coglin.1867:

Wait what? Your comparing your basic weapon skills to elites, like fiery great sword? What does stealth have to do with mobility (read the thread title)? Oh please, tell me what the engineer can use for mobility? You do not even know do you??? I bet any reply to this you use, you will have to look up, then I will have to correct you. They have to use a utility slot just to have a weapons swap, after that, “rocket boots” is their only mobility skill. How many slots would they have for a cleanse? How many slots would they have for CC?? How many slots would they have for a stun breaker??? It is not so much that you arguments (in this case in particular) are unreasonable, but they are also extremely uneducated.

It’s about how other class mechanics circumvent the need for extreme mobility since stealth for example allows you to disengage and reset fights on a whim.

coglin.1867:

Your really pushing off topic here, but legendary (all 3) took me no grinding. I stored stuff as I earned it. Literally once a precurser dropped, all I had to do was go to the mystic forge and done. You really lack the ability to understand choices. YOU may chose to grind to get it fast or to buy it with gold. I simply let my game play itself earn it. Don’t call other players liars simply because you CHOSE to grind due to your impatience. BTW how many legendaries do you have?

How much exactly do you play per day? Some people don’t have the luxury to casually play 8 hours or more and just earn the stuff “casually”.

If you can play a lot – sure – you’ll make gold without grinding – but if you don’t – and can play 1-2 hours per day on average – you will have to grind for it.

Also you got incredibly lucky with the precursor drops – keep in mind the majority of players never got one. There are multiple threads across the forum where people have said this over and over.

I have one legendary.

You only listed thief and stealth and mesmer and stealth neither of which have anything to do with mobility. Nor have you mentioned other professions.

I have only had one precursor drop. Otherwise I made intelligent investments to make purxhases.

glad to see you admit you made the choice to grind and that is not mandatory.

I tend to play about 3-4 hrs a night around 10 days a month after the kids go to bed. Maybe 2 hrs more on the 2 nights before I rotate from days to nights (such is the life of an engineer who works rotating swing shifts)

None of which has to do with the fact that you are unaware of the limitations of other professions, and how your demanding to remain unreasonably over powered when it comes to the other professions.

Harper.4173:

Orpheal.8263:

So basicalyl Thieves are from all classes in regard of moveability, just the 3rd place, when they are supposed to be the 1st place, because moveability is a thieve’s core concept and not that of a warrior or elemetalist, whose core concepts lie alot more on damage dealing and support, but not moveability >.>

You’re so dead wrong.
Stealth is your core concept. STEALTH.

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Source : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

OMG, your so a genius dude ! Really..

Ever thought about it for a single second, that Stealth is just only a part of the Thieves moveability in regard of positioning to get a tactical advantage out of it in a battle.
But I’m speaking here about the simple raw moveability, the speed in which a class can get just from A to B and in regard of that point being viewed, thiefs are just outright slow as a snail compared to skilled Warriors and Elementalists that know how to use their Weapon Switch and Element attunements in the right way to spam through their quick movement skills non stop, together with usign the right build of traits to reduce cool down times for their weapons.

Thieves simply are slower in a set amount of time and that is fact, because its also alot harder for a thief to get outside of battle, if you just don’t have stealth long enough at your disposal to get far enough away to reset the combat, what is very oftenly for eles and warriors a easy moment to dash far away becoming this way uncatchable, while you are waiting on that ur kittenign stupid movement speed to finally normalize again to get a chance at catching the coward up

Balanced would it be, if Thieves would be by inherent immune to that stupid movement speed reduction when beign hit (which reduces also the maximum range of our heartseekers as it gets affected by everything, that reduces our movement speed, like chill/cripple plus anet should fix finalle that stupid range reducement from heartseekers, while having Quickness that reduces the range of heartseekers by 50%, what is a kind of bug that hasn’t been fixed until today
if it would would correctly, a heartseeker under quickness’ animation would be just 50% quicker with the exact range of 450 and not 225.

However, I appologize, if I may have used the term “core” at the wrong moment/position to have maybe cause through this confusion about what I am speaking. English isn’t my first language, so such a kind of confusions can happen naturally.

PS: I’m not fine with the rankings, in regard of just simple speed for moveability to get from A to B or in regard of chasing someone, it should look like this:

1) Thief
2) Elementalist
3) Engineer
4) Ranger
5) Warrior
6) Mesmer
7) Necromancer
8) Guardian

That row would be just logical and balanced.

Currently it feels more personally to me like this:

1) Warrior
2) Elementalist
3) Thief
4) Ranger
5) Mesmer
6) Engineer
7) Necromancer
8) Guardian

And I find this row of rankings how it feels like now is not correct.
Thiefs are the most reliant of all classes on their positioning, because make 1 mistake and your basically ending up being dead, if you have not stealth at your hand or a dodge roll.
Thats why moveability and being the fastest of all is being so important for them, because Thiefs have the most poorest base health, the most poorest condition removals and the most poorest access to stability as also NO normal access to boons like Protection.
A Warriror has the just the highest hp, the biggest defense and skilsl to block all incoming damage even when being attacked from behind!!!! and god mode health regen… they DON’T need to be also the best mobile class also on top of all this to have just the best survivability in this game.
This makes them just overpowered and that is a fact, if you Warrior Fanbois want to see the truth, or not. I know, truth can hurt sometimes …
Warriors currently simply are too perfect in too many things. Period

Current sustained mobility over 60 seconds is,
1)Ranger
2)Elementalist
3)Warrior
4)Thief
5)Engineer
6)Guardian
7)Mesmer
8)Necromancer

Current burst is,
1)Thief
2)Elementalist
3)Warrior-ahead of Ranger by 150 for the first 6 seconds
4)Ranger
5)Engineer
6)Guardian
7)Mesmer
8)Necromancer

Mesmer is the fastest burst with a 5000 range portal or a Necromancer with a cliff or Spectral Walk plus Flesh Wurm. A Thief built for it could possibly catch up to both though.

@Orpheal.8263 – the numbers matter – not what it feels like.
Plus – you’re not focusing on the core aspect – you said that mobility was supposed to be the thief’s core deal. That was wrong and I corrected you. Your core mechanic is stealth. Not mobility. That’s the ranger, and maybe warrior.

Harper.4173:

@Orpheal.8263 – the numbers matter – not what it feels like.
Plus – you’re not focusing on the core aspect – you said that mobility was supposed to be the thief’s core deal. That was wrong and I corrected you. Your core mechanic is stealth. Not mobility. That’s the ranger, and maybe warrior.

“Steal” is the thief’s professional mechanic. Multiple professions can stealth, either with direct stealth skills or by creating a smoke field or combo-ing off of anothers smoke field.

Steal is the professional mechanic.
Initiative is their core mechanic.
Stealth is a game mechanic.

Interestingly enough, mobility is not an intended mechanic of any kind for warriors. (segwaying back on topic since you cannot appear to stay on topic)

Now read the balancing philosophies posted by Jonathan Sharp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Thief

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

it does not say warriors and mobility, it stated thieves and mobility.

Warriors are literally intended to be designed to be weak to chill, immobilize, and cripple, possibly as well as poison.

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

I hate to inconvenience you with such things as facts and stuff like developer and game designer statements, Harper, but you keep trying to blow smoke at us and tell us what is what, when you truly do not know for yourself. Even though this isn’t the first time I have linked actual facts and information to you in this very thread. You seem to keep trying to out talk common sense because you refuse to admit your repeated inaccurate claims might just be, well, inaccurate.

Pretty sure Mobile Strikes has been in since launch at least.

@coglin and others

I keep seeing the old profession definitions dragged out time and time again. Let’s be honest and admit that they no longer mean anything. ANet decided that having a class that is so weak to what was at the time (and still is) a major part of the meta wasn’t what they wanted so they changed it. Warrior was totally and completely inadequate for around a year because at best they could charge in and try to kill a target before dying themselves. That definition of Warrior is outdated, although you overlooked one that does back up the mobility.

From the GW2.com Warrior profession page

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

Now if that doesn’t perfectly describe Warrior’s current state I don’t know what does. Oh, there’s also this from the wiki

Greatsword — Sweeping, brutal attacks which carry the greatsword’s momentum from foe to foe.

Sword — Quick and mobile, with many opportunities to cause bleeding.

Sooooooo…yes there are plenty of official sources citing Warrior’s mobility.

As a little added bonus here’s the Thief’s page on the website

“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”

That blog post is from December 2012, here we are in 2014 and these definition are what they have posted on the official website. I would consider those to be more true to the design philosophy since most of them are accurate.

I’m thankful that ANet only gives in to a few forum “suggestions” because if they listened to all the threads here Warriors would have less mobility, less sustain, less condition mitigation, and finally less damage. Many aren’t interested in balance, they just Warrior to be the free kill it used to be.

BurrTheKing.8571:

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

A. My information was more recent then yours. Not to mention, your linking a PR department advertisement quote and I am quoting the Design Leader.

B Attacking speed and recast speed does not mean mobility. Context my friend, context. It specifically states “in battle” not “to run like a scared child” which is what many are defending the ability to do here, or “mobility around the map”, it says "in battle.

coglin.1867:

BurrTheKing.8571:

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

A. My information was more recent then yours. Not to mention, your linking a PR department advertisement quote and I am quoting the Design Leader.

B Attacking speed and recast speed does not mean mobility. Context my friend, context. It specifically states “in battle” not “to run like a scared child” which is what many are defending the ability to do here, or “mobility around the map”, it says "in battle.

And Thieves are supposed to use their Stealth to set up attacks, not to run away and hide like a scared child.

You’re link IS more outdated because they clearly changed their vision or the Warrior because they made it more resilient to conditions. If that vision was still the same they would have never added Dogged March and Cleansing Ire in addition to changing Zerker Stance. But you know what’s even more interesting? Even with the changes Warrior wasn’t viable until the Healing buffs.

The promotional material is more accurate than that blog post because Warrior’s are indeed more dangerous the longer the fight drags on. It’s obvious that after that post Mr. Sharp changed his vision for the Warrior class and made them able to counter the then-meta Necro condi spam. It’s just a natural side effect that the gap losers are going to also be useable to escape. Making it require a target would be a HUGE step back. That’s the kind of systems that old MMOs use and it takes away from the freedom of the game. Next thing you know people are going to demand that all Warrior skills require you to target them.

BurrTheKing.8571:

And Thieves are supposed to use their Stealth to set up attacks, not to run away and hide like a scared child.

Is that what stealth is designed for? Do you have any proof of this or are you simply representing your opinion as fact? All I know is I linked dev quotes stating that it is a fact that thieves are intended to have more mobility then Warriors. Unless you have an actual dev quote or a fact, or even reasonable evidence, all your doing is spinning your wheels.

Honestly, this angle of “I have no actual facts or evidence, but your wrong cause I said so” argument just works against you, as well as removes your credibility in general.

I mean the facts and evidence are all there that make this entire “thief” angle of a warriors argument a bit laughable if you ask me. It is as if the warrior community would rather try to out smart common sense rather then offer a reasonable solution.