Guild Wars 2

This class is just a bit to strong at basically everything right now.
Coming from a WvW perspective they can do everything and they do it well.
They are among the best at Zerging every zerg need them. The are among the best at roaming and you could argue they are actually the best at it, because if a warrior and thief fight over a camp, sentry, or tower Warriors have the advantage because a thief and mesmers cannot contest these points in stealth.

They very easy to play and have no weakness am I missing something?

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

Warriors can be pretty tough to deal with. THe problem I have with them, (I play some warrior in spvp) is that they can do everything at once. With a warrior you can have 2.8k armor with 7k+ eviscerates, along with healing signet and overall tankiness. Basically they’re very tanky with high damage.

As a guard the only thing that frustrates me is the Warriors ability to turn tail and run… you’re freakin warriors, get back here and fight!

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

Did you even watch thoses videos none of them are that impressive at all and lot of them from last year. Thief is running pd condi build which is not good for group play all single target dps and no burst. That mesmer shatter build is cloth low hp no armor limited condi removal and no mobility many weakness.

Didn’t watch all of ele but he was doing 1v1 he had low hp and dmg was no where near warrior level + its alot hard to play. Ranger is running regen build takes days to kill anything mobility not as good as war that type of build don’t bring much to a group, it a tank with very limit support.

That engi build has less mobility less damage and takes way more effort to play why bother?Didnt watch the last two video 5 of them weren’t so good. Guard and Necro don’t have the moblitity of Warrior so the are not really a good roaming option.

Those videos are just from roaming perspective Warrior is also Top tier in Zergs easy to play no weakness overshadows all other classes.

Harkan.9017:

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

Forget the video then, Warrior has great survivability, great mobility don’t give that excuse warrior with good mobility is only good for running coz thats not true if they have a gs or sword equip they have can have good mobility. They are also very easy to play and they are overshadowing many other professions.

Again, you’re still basing this on WvW where mobility and zerging is king. Do I even need to mention it’s an imbalanced game mode and not designed around 1v1? WvW has access to food and higher stat caps which further pushes build optimization of not just Warriors, but any class that wants to roam in general. You won’t ever see a Warrior in sPvP with -60% Condi reduction, 3k+ armor, 2.5k+ power, 60% Crit Chance, and 200% Crit Damage. Guardian, Warriors, Ele, and Necros overshadow many professions in a WvW zerg. Just cuz Warriors have the kit to function inside and outside of a zerg doesn’t mean they’re OP. It just means other classes don’t have the same functionality and need viable builds outside of roaming.

A Warrior with GS + Sword/X is not just not viable in a tPvP scenario. Thieves do what that particular Warrior build does, but 10x better.

conti.5187:

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

Did you even watch thoses videos none of them are that impressive at all and lot of them from last year. Thief is running pd condi build which is not good for group play all single target dps and no burst. That mesmer shatter build is cloth low hp no armor limited condi removal and no mobility many weakness.

Didn’t watch all of ele but he was doing 1v1 he had low hp and dmg was no where near warrior level + its alot hard to play. Ranger is running regen build takes days to kill anything mobility not as good as war that type of build don’t bring much to a group, it a tank with very limit support.

That engi build has less mobility less damage and takes way more effort to play why bother?Didnt watch the last two video 5 of them weren’t so good. Guard and Necro don’t have the moblitity of Warrior so the are not really a good roaming option.

Those videos are just from roaming perspective Warrior is also Top tier in Zergs easy to play no weakness overshadows all other classes.

Well you linked warrior roaming video to show warrior is OPed so I linked that of other professions.

Only Necro and ranger videos are from last year. Here is this years video from a quick youtube search:

Necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI71XVnKWwE
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDTvnOiSMX0

You also keep mention low HP, seriously do you play this game? You do realize different class has different defensive mechanism right? Ele + Guardian can have low HP due to defensive boons, mesmer and theft can have low HP due to stealth.

Regarding these videos, yes some are more impressive than others, but these are also by no means the most impressive of them all. But regardless, they show more wins than loses, which makes my point, these video are edited and pre-selected to show off. It does not represent the entire class.

The warrior video you show also does not represent the class. For one its GS + AXE, its very single target and definitely not good for the group. I tried that by the way, and I don’t meet nearly the success as the player in that video. If anything it just show case that the player is good.

Regarding whether or not they are good in a zerg…. Its not like there is a size limit. If you make a Mesmer and decide to join them I am sure they will be happy to have you regardless of your class. As for why there are more warrior and Guardian than other professions? IMO, that speaks more about their ease of play than their OPness.

In PVE, it is always shown that in top level play, warrior does medium damage, there is no need for more than 1 warrior per group for offensive support that’s it. It is far from being OPed as well.

Unless you want Anet to balance the game based on low level play otherwise warrior is far from needing a nerf.

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

I don’t recall him saying “everything I’m about to say is based on this one video”… I really don’t see how your reply deals with the substance of his post. Warriors are needed in zergs, they share that status with only one other class (guard). They’re also very strong in roaming, 1v1s, pve, and spvp… The only class that shares that general degree of viability is Guardian. The difference being is Guardian is harder to play, has less passive play, and has obvious weaknesses (low hp, low mobility, extreme vulnerability to boon stripping etc…).

Arius.7031:

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

I don’t recall him saying “everything I’m about to say is based on this one video”… I really don’t see how your reply deals with the substance of his post. Warriors are needed in zergs, they share that status with only one other class (guard). They’re also very strong in roaming, 1v1s, pve, and spvp… The only class that shares that general degree of viability is Guardian. The difference being is Guardian is harder to play, has less passive play, and has obvious weaknesses (low hp, low mobility, extreme vulnerability to boon stripping etc…).

What no? I got 3.7k hours on my warrior and around 400 on my guardian. With proper support builds, I think guardian is easier to play than a warrior and gives more reward (talking about loot). Only place where warrior is easier is for roaming, but that is because of other reasons (mobility issues).

If we look at GvGs, eles are almost the most important. Most healing comes from blasting waterfields. That is why both teams has thiefs/mesmer hunting down these eles as the melee train (guardians/warriors) will go down without eles. In zergs, most play guardian because of the easy tagging.

In PvE, warrior and guardian have very equal damage and survivability and both are equally easy to play. Tons of blocks and blinds definitely makes up for the low health on the guardian.

For roaming, warriors actually are mediocre. Well in 1vs1s to be more precise. Only warriors that might be to strong are condi warriors, but again this is because how condis work in WvW. Thiefs/mesmers/condi necros/engis and even good rangers/eles should all kill warriors. Only reason why warriors are often selected for roaming is because they are good nub stompers and are very mobile. Mobility is key in roaming.

Healing signet is just something frustrating to fight against as it seems that he doesn’t lose health, but there is no difference to a guardian/ele/engi/ranger keep dropping to 3k health and healing himself back to full. Remember that if you are dropping the warriors health, he doesn’t have anything anymore. He pretty much has no heal, only thing he can do is run away aka reset the fight. But thiefs/mesmers do this too with stealth.

No, warriors aren’t OP. Again only thing we can argue about are condi warriors in WvW. But power warriors are easy to counter/shut down. When you know their rotations and skill animations, they wont be able to touch you anymore.

bigmonto.4215:

Oh man don’t be naive, its a edited video with the selected best footage. Every single profession has these.

Just to prove my point: here is a 5 min of looking through this forum. Every single one of them with 1vX and impressive looking

ele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GieXgGnX1Bs&feature=youtu.be
eng: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOx0xjkaDg
guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSls3ORlJRM
mesmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56od0juDdY
Ranger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
necro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzyVTFM7uSc
thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiWNhK6LS4

So now what nerf everyone?

I want to note that the Ranger video in particular was made during the time when BM bunker was un-nerfed. So presently, Ranger is nerfed already.

A video of a zerker warrior running down noobs doesnt prove anything other than they are good at cutting down players who dont know how to deal with them.

I’ve never had problems dealing with warriors when roaming on my ranger or mesmer, and I’m not even a great mesmer.

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now.

The entire Warrior profession was a joke in this game for around one and half years. You can deal with six months of a mediocre profession.

Every profession can kill a Warrior if the player is competent enough. Warrior is still not the best profession by any stretch of the imagination in any faucet of the game you care to mention.

Just because they are popular and easy to play doesn’t make them good or overpowered. It just means the general skill level of the community has sunken to new lows.

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

would you kindly stop spewing ridiculous nonsense like that already?
warriors are already in line.

get over it already?

Vanthian.9267:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now.

The entire Warrior profession was a joke in this game for around one and half years. You can deal with six months of a mediocre profession.

Every profession can kill a Warrior if the player is competent enough. Warrior is still not the best profession by any stretch of the imagination in any faucet of the game you care to mention.

Just because they are popular and easy to play doesn’t make them good or overpowered. It just means the general skill level of the community has sunken to new lows.

Because a profession was UP for a while doesn’t therefor make it ok for it to be too strong now. Wars have been too strong for ~1 year now. Even the dev’s laughed at how warriors were too strong in a livestream.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

would you kindly stop spewing ridiculous nonsense like that already?
warriors are already in line.

get over it already?

That’s why you commonly see 2x war in tournament teams. Totally balanced.

Aberrant.6749:

Vanthian.9267:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now.

The entire Warrior profession was a joke in this game for around one and half years. You can deal with six months of a mediocre profession.

Every profession can kill a Warrior if the player is competent enough. Warrior is still not the best profession by any stretch of the imagination in any faucet of the game you care to mention.

Just because they are popular and easy to play doesn’t make them good or overpowered. It just means the general skill level of the community has sunken to new lows.

Because a profession was UP for a while doesn’t therefor make it ok for it to be too strong now. Wars have been too strong for ~1 year now. Even the dev’s laughed at how warriors were too strong in a livestream.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

would you kindly stop spewing ridiculous nonsense like that already?
warriors are already in line.

get over it already?

That’s why you commonly see 2x war in tournament teams. Totally balanced.

yup, warriors are balanced now.
warrior haters please stop spewing nonsense already.

Aberrant.6749:

That’s why you commonly see 2x war in tournament teams. Totally balanced.

Basing this on one NA tournament? You really think we have enough top level teams to represent what is OP or not?

EU ToL winners had 1 Warrior and it wasn’t even the oh so OP Hambow everyone keeps crying about. If you watched their interview, they will tell you exactly how they feel about 2+ Warrior teams.

Arius.7031:

I don’t recall him saying “everything I’m about to say is based on this one video”… I really don’t see how your reply deals with the substance of his post. Warriors are needed in zergs, they share that status with only one other class (guard). They’re also very strong in roaming, 1v1s, pve, and spvp… The only class that shares that general degree of viability is Guardian. The difference being is Guardian is harder to play, has less passive play, and has obvious weaknesses (low hp, low mobility, extreme vulnerability to boon stripping etc…).

The OP try to use the video to prove his point. I discredit his proof, hence weaken his argument. Sounds reasonable to me.

As for your counter argument MiLkZz.4789 says it better. In fact I would argue that warrior is not even needed in a zerg. Everything brought by the warrior can be countered easily or provided by another profession. Shout Guardians are much more needed for their aoe conditional cleanse + aoe stability. And coming from playing a Guardian, its is by far easier to play than warrior in a zerg, since everything you do to yourself automatically goes out to your team, I call that pretty passive. But what about the other issue you claim Guardians have.

Shout Guardian (for zerging):
Low health: not really, usually 16k to 20k+, access to a lot of regen, protection, and ageis, I tank much better as a guardian than I ever was as warrior with similar gear.
low mobility: It has constant up time on swiftness, and usually at least 1 gap closer.
vulnerability to boon stripping: to some degree, but in a zerg, its not a huge deal.

Meditation Guardian (for roaming, 1v1):
Low health: yes, but it doesn’t depend on it, it has a lot of self healing + blind.
low mobility: No, most uses traveler rune, and 3 gap closer when engaging, but only 1 with running away, but I would consider it average.
vulnerability to boon stripping: It doesn’t depend on boon.

Aberrant.6749:

Vanthian.9267:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now.

The entire Warrior profession was a joke in this game for around one and half years. You can deal with six months of a mediocre profession.

Every profession can kill a Warrior if the player is competent enough. Warrior is still not the best profession by any stretch of the imagination in any faucet of the game you care to mention.

Just because they are popular and easy to play doesn’t make them good or overpowered. It just means the general skill level of the community has sunken to new lows.

Because a profession was UP for a while doesn’t therefor make it ok for it to be too strong now. Wars have been too strong for ~1 year now. Even the dev’s laughed at how warriors were too strong in a livestream.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.

That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.

However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.

would you kindly stop spewing ridiculous nonsense like that already?
warriors are already in line.

get over it already?

That’s why you commonly see 2x war in tournament teams. Totally balanced.

Actually,

In the Recent TOL

teams without a guardian were more likely to lose ( and irc the team without a guardian lost pretty kitten bad)

By that logic, Guardians are OP, because they were the most represented in both the NA and EU ToL with most teams going with up to two guardians.

Bottom line.
Guardians are OP because of their over representation
They need to be toned down.

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

It would be fine if Guardians were the ideal for what all other professions should strive to be relative to their respective roles. In other words, Guardians are likely in the best spot of all the professions to what they are suppose to do and what they do in game.

So pretty much, let’s get the rest of the professions there. I believe that’s what Arenanet intended to explain from the Ready-Up today.

Sykper.6583:

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

It would be fine if Guardians were the ideal for what all other professions should strive to be relative to their respective roles. In other words, Guardians are likely in the best spot of all the professions to what they are suppose to do and what they do in game.

So pretty much, let’s get the rest of the professions there. I believe that’s what Arenanet intended to explain from the Ready-Up today.

…and the warrior isn’t?

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

Just question, if guardians are really, under radar and they actually decide to nerf Guardian’s ability to bunker well where does that leave the class? Is it worth breaking a class that really isn’t broken just so other classes can feel optimal in a place where they’re supposed to excel? There are classes that have the obviously superior roles that a guardian cannot fill. Warriors fill the CC and damage role much better than a guardian can. Thief has very high mobility to point cap and kill/burst squishy targets, Engies utility and AoE. Ele Support and strong AoE/control. Mesmers/Necro boon manipulation (Necro condition/debuff/AoE/Control)

Guardians are balanced since they sacrifice in order to excel in a specific field, such as DPS spec (meditations)leaves you in a very squishy state with only small burst heals and very little to no boon access(weak against CC). Bunker specs a losses a huge chunk of their damage in order to live longer and better support teammates with support weapons and shouts.

Top Tpvp scene is perfect logic to nerf something. Every team using a -insert profession here-? Nerf it because it’s always seen in that area of play and all other game modes. It must be OP.

Lucentfir.7430:

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

Just question, if guardians are really, under radar and they actually decide to nerf Guardian’s ability to bunker well where does that leave the class? Is it worth breaking a class that really isn’t broken just so other classes can feel optimal in a place where they’re supposed to excel? There are classes that have the obviously superior roles that a guardian cannot fill. Warriors fill the CC and damage role much better than a guardian can. Thief has very high mobility to point cap and kill/burst squishy targets, Engies utility and AoE. Ele Support and strong AoE/control. Mesmers/Necro boon manipulation (Necro condition/debuff/AoE/Control)

Guardians are balanced since they sacrifice in order to excel in a specific field, such as DPS spec (meditations)leaves you in a very squishy state with only small burst heals and very little to no boon access(weak against CC). Bunker specs a losses a huge chunk of their damage in order to live longer and better support teammates with support weapons and shouts.

Top Tpvp scene is perfect logic to nerf something. Every team using a -insert profession here-? Nerf it because it’s always seen in that area of play and all other game modes. It must be OP.

But that goes against what this thread is about?

You know,

nerfing things because of over-representation…

We cant have that.. I here by declare you a guardian fanboy and anything you say is biased

/satire

We getting the message yet people or do i need to go all Edgar Allen Poe in this piece?

Julie Yann.5379:

Sykper.6583:

Dee Jay.2460:

That deduction would be entirely correct.

There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.

People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.

So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.

It would be fine if Guardians were the ideal for what all other professions should strive to be relative to their respective roles. In other words, Guardians are likely in the best spot of all the professions to what they are suppose to do and what they do in game.

So pretty much, let’s get the rest of the professions there. I believe that’s what Arenanet intended to explain from the Ready-Up today.

…and the warrior isn’t?

Nope. The disguise of being powerful, a warrior is clearly not in any good state at all. Forced dedication across all competitive builds in any PvP environment into one trait-line (take a wild guess), singular viable heal with other lackluster heals (one themed about utilizing adrenaline properly but fails to actually do its job), and all sorts of clunky skills…

Literally the only role they do well enough in is in PvE, being reliable middle-tier DPS with an essential unique buff called Banners that can really help out the party. But when you really put them under a microscope, the only thing that has changed from them since launch is that instead of being too weak because of a lack of useful skills, is that they are too strong because of a lack of useful skills aside from the meta.

But hey whatever.

just my 2cents i didnt read the other comments but through personal experience I can live with the damage numbers the warrior can deal I win some lose some ( I do lose more than win against warriors in general). My issue is their mobility, most warriors had the same thing in common it takes quite a while to get them to low health at which point they usain bolt away from the fight then when their cooldowns are back come back to chase you. As for me once a warrior uses their ridiculous mobility to retreat I know theres no point in chasing them. First of all, I’ll never catch them (power necromancer) and second the they will often regen their health back along with refreshed cooldowns as they outrun me everytime. I personally want to see something done about their high mobility, I dont mind their damage numbers.

This is still an mmoRPG. In which a Warrior, in a war zone, should be the most predominant character making up the combat zone. It simply makes no sense at all to have it any other way. And, even with that said, a Warrior can still get wrecked by other professions mixed in.

I mean, I’m strong but I don’t think im OP. Please no nurf me plox.

conti.5187:

Harkan.9017:

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

Forget the video then, Warrior has great survivability, great mobility don’t give that excuse warrior with good mobility is only good for running coz thats not true if they have a gs or sword equip they have can have good mobility. They are also very easy to play and they are overshadowing many other professions.

warriors are overshadowing no profession but noobs.
if you really want to talk about overshadowing, thief overshadow mesmer is the way to say it.

As an sPvPer, the only thing that could use adjusting on a Warrior is Pindown and Impale. Those two skills deal way to much damage for their own good.

Pindown – Reduce recharge time to 15 seconds, reduce casting time to 1/4th second, reduce bleeding duration to 3 seconds and now cripples target foe for 5 seconds. Apply 2 seconds of immobilize if target foe is more than 600 range away.
Fixed.

Impale – Reduce torment duration to 5 seconds, applying a single stack of torment 4 more times over Impales 5 second duration, Rip’s now deals bonus damage for each stack of Torment.
Fixed.

Oh, while we are at it.
Arcing Arrow – Damage and radius is reduced by 50%. Range increased by 500, now has an additional effect: damage and radius is increased by 10% for each 100 range the arrow passes.
For the fun lulz.

Oh and change Berserker Stance and Endure Pain, but one step at a time…

The title of this topic is really funny. Nobody noticed?

Fix one thing with warrior: Do not allow them to cap or contest points when under the effects of “endure pain”

Warrior Weaknesses
Low condition removal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD9Tvfk1pjk&t=70m33s
No evades
No Protection – mitigated by high HPs
Low Mobility
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD9Tvfk1pjk&t=71m41s
Don’t have as much of a response to enemy boons.
Class mechanic – Adrenaline.
Can be overwhelmed by conditions if their defences expire.

I would like to add my voice to the “Warriors are OP” side of things. Arenanet acknowledge that warrior mobility is too high at the moment, but there’s probably more to it than that.

Cleansing Ire kinda negates the “low condition removal/can be overwhelmed by conditions” weaknesses on its own.

Adrenaline as a weakness…lol! There’s nothing a Warrior has to do to keep his adrenaline up. He just fights and it happens. Necromancers and Mesmers, now they have resource management as a weakness. Warriors? Yeah right.

Came on to post this very thing. My problem with warr.s is they ARE the best at everything. Best weapon selection, Best armor class, Best HP. pool, Best mobility, Best dps. Best zerg. class, Best HP. regen. maybe or not maybe not Best roaming class but come on. Now some things are obvious for a warr. class like heavy armor but all together they have everything but stealth. Now having said that I think the regen and mobility needs a change for sure, idk how many times warr.s have just run away when they get low, just to come back 20sec. later after cool downs and regen make them full again. As a class with no speed boost, but one, and no stability, its impossible to kill a warr. unless I can spike and get lucky. Ive also been in WvW and had Warr.s with so much regen. I cant harm them. even with 3200 power and a 60%+ crit chance. (just came from WvW where a signet warr. was fighting us 9 v 1 and still got away after about 30sec. of fighting)

holly lyn.2173:

Came on to post this very thing. My problem with warr.s is they ARE the best at everything. Best weapon selection, Best armor class, Best HP. pool, Best mobility, Best dps. Best zerg. class, Best HP. regen. maybe or not maybe not Best roaming class but come on. Now some things are obvious for a warr. class like heavy armor but all together they have everything but stealth. Now having said that I think the regen and mobility needs a change for sure, idk how many times warr.s have just run away when they get low, just to come back 20sec. later after cool downs and regen make them full again. As a class with no speed boost, but one, and no stability, its impossible to kill a warr. unless I can spike and get lucky. Ive also been in WvW and had Warr.s with so much regen. I cant harm them. even with 3200 power and a 60%+ crit chance. (just came from WvW where a signet warr. was fighting us 9 v 1 and still got away after about 30sec. of fighting)

That was a bit hard to read, but oh boy was it all gold.

No, we don’t have everything. We don’t have protection outside of runes that no warrior uses anyways. Any class that has access to protection can neglect the same amount or more damage than warrior can. We don’t have teleports either, we have leaps and mobility skills, but they are affected by mobility impaires. We don’t have a lot of other stuff either, not gonna put them all here though. Let’s keep moving.

Now, lets consentrate here for a sec. You have 3200 power? Thats pretty dam high if you ask me. And you are saying you can’t deal over 600 dps to the warrior with that amount of power? Are you hitting him once every 10 seconds or what?

And last, but not least. 9 people couldn’t kill a signet warrior in 30 seconds? What were you doing? Trying to talk him to death perhaps?

Nerf Healing Signet = problem solved

Warrior isn’t op. It’s just too easy to master, but surely not the best profession when it’s mastered.

They can facetank pretty much 3 times of what other professions can and then die the moment they can’t facetank anymore. Warrior summed up in a nutshell.

conti.5187:

Harkan.9017:

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

Forget the video then, Warrior has great survivability, great mobility don’t give that excuse warrior with good mobility is only good for running coz thats not true if they have a gs or sword equip they have can have good mobility. They are also very easy to play and they are overshadowing many other professions.

Also very easy to counter too, unless it’s a shout condi bunker war. Still they tend to die to something that can out-heal, condi remove constantly and out damage it.

The Primary.6371:

conti.5187:

Harkan.9017:

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

Forget the video then, Warrior has great survivability, great mobility don’t give that excuse warrior with good mobility is only good for running coz thats not true if they have a gs or sword equip they have can have good mobility. They are also very easy to play and they are overshadowing many other professions.

Also very easy to counter too, unless it’s a shout condi bunker war. Still they tend to die to something that can out-heal, condi remove constantly and out damage it.

That is umm… the short explanation how to counter every build.

MiLkZz.4789:

What no? I got 3.7k hours on my warrior and around 400 on my guardian. With proper support builds, I think guardian is easier to play than a warrior and gives more reward (talking about loot). Only place where warrior is easier is for roaming, but that is because of other reasons (mobility issues).

Beats me experience of about 1,500 on Guardian and 500 on warrior, but I think I’m qualified to make judgments as well. Warrior tanking is very passive (generally speaking), so to tank you literally dodge watch you can and wait for healing sig to heal you up. Guard tanking is active, it’s achieved through carefully timed blinds, aegis, protection, regen, management of virtue passives, and blocks (focus 5 and heals). Since Guardian has very low hp, if you don’t manage these you’ll die very quick (especially without protection). Another thing to consider is, when running in groups, Warriors are almost always paired up with guards/eles and therefore will generally have protection like Guardians do.

If we look at GvGs, eles are almost the most important. Most healing comes from blasting waterfields. That is why both teams has thiefs/mesmer hunting down these eles as the melee train (guardians/warriors) will go down without eles. In zergs, most play guardian because of the easy tagging.

No Warriors and Guardians are the most important, which is why in 15v15s they generally constitute 50%+ of all people present…

In PvE, warrior and guardian have very equal damage and survivability and both are equally easy to play. Tons of blocks and blinds definitely makes up for the low health on the guardian.

Agreed, I never said Guardian was easier in every conceivable way. I mean in general, and especially in WvW (as I almost exclusively WvW).

For roaming, warriors actually are mediocre. Well in 1vs1s to be more precise.

You’ve never ran with top notch warriors clearly… A mostly zerk war with axe/shield+hammer or gs can be very deadly in a duel. GS is nice because 3 hits kitten a short cooldown + evade, has gap closers/cripples for comboing into a surprise eviscerate or cc (shield 4, bulls charge etc…). Even with all the tells a warrior has, there is only a limited number of dodges a player can do. The key is to making them waste their stam and then it’s game over. Again, good warriors are very strong in 1v1s. More importantly, they have build diversity there. Guardians have almost 0 build diversity and are one of the weakest classes in 1v1s (there are top notch guards that are good, but it’s not as easy as say mesmer or engineer).

Only warriors that might be to strong are condi warriors, but again this is because how condis work in WvW. Thiefs/mesmers/condi necros/engis and even good rangers/eles should all kill warriors. Only reason why warriors are often selected for roaming is because they are good nub stompers and are very mobile. Mobility is key in roaming.

Actually warrior is one of the top notch classes for anti-condi builds simply because of the ability to cleanse routinely and totally negate condis (via berserker’s stance). So a condi war in theory should beta an equally skill condi engi because engis generally lack condi removal/stun breakers (which are both needed against a lot of condi builds).

Healing signet is just something frustrating to fight against as it seems that he doesn’t lose health, but there is no difference to a guardian/ele/engi/ranger keep dropping to 3k health and healing himself back to full. Remember that if you are dropping the warriors health, he doesn’t have anything anymore. He pretty much has no heal, only thing he can do is run away aka reset the fight. But thiefs/mesmers do this too with stealth.

The condi warriors you mention often have heals on shouts traited actually, though I agree with you in principal. I’m not personally complaining about healing sig as I actually think it’s really easily counter by regularly applying poison (I bring sigil of doom on my ele and the sylvari wolf to apply as much as I can).

No, warriors aren’t OP. Again only thing we can argue about are condi warriors in WvW. But power warriors are easy to counter/shut down. When you know their rotations and skill animations, they wont be able to touch you anymore.

Name 1 class in the game that, when played by a true master, can’t beat another class? You can’t. When a person says something’s op, they’re not saying it’s the best at something/can’t be beat… They’re generally saying it yields more capability for less effort. It’s easier to be good on a warrior than it is on, say, a ranger. It’s easier to be great on a warrior than it is on, say, an Elementalist. This is the heart of the issue.

Arius.7031:

Beats me experience of about 1,500 on Guardian and 500 on warrior, but I think I’m qualified to make judgments as well. Warrior tanking is very passive (generally speaking), so to tank you literally dodge watch you can and wait for healing sig to heal you up. Guard tanking is active, it’s achieved through carefully timed blinds, aegis, protection, regen, management of virtue passives, and blocks (focus 5 and heals). Since Guardian has very low hp, if you don’t manage these you’ll die very quick (especially without protection). Another thing to consider is, when running in groups, Warriors are almost always paired up with guards/eles and therefore will generally have protection like Guardians do.

This is only true for meditation Guardians, which I agree is hard to play, but it is one of the top dueling/roaming builds, they can completely destroy a warrior.

For AH and shout (Honor + Virtues) Guardians this is not true. I thought most of the group oriented Guardian are of these types. You get heals by dodging + buffing yourself and others and by doing nothing (virtue) . You give everyone else boon by pressing the shout. I don’t think this is harder to play than warrior.

Arius.7031:

When a person says something’s op, they’re not saying it’s the best at something/can’t be beat… They’re generally saying it yields more capability for less effort.

But you can see how this might be a problem right? Different people play at different skill levels. To a low level player Warrior is consider OPed, because its attack are direct and its affect easily understood. But because its animation are obvious, and dodge-able by a seasoned player, warrior is ok at the higher level of play. In fact its effort required are the same if not more than that of other classes, since he will need to anticipate his opponent’s avoidance, and will have a difficult time avoid classes with less than obvious attacks. So the question is who should Anet be listening to?

If Anet listening to most people commenting here then ele and eng should be the most Oped class and will dominated tPvP and no other class will really be able to compete. If Anet listen to the top-tier players then its basically saying a classes “it’s the best at something/can’t be beat” and should be nerfed. And you have to agree warrior is not that class.

Another thing, popularly should never be the judge of OPness. People like them for different reasons, warrior fits the macho man ideal of the western culture, it will always be one of the favor. Take a game like street fighter (which overall consider pretty balanced), more people will still play as Ryu and Ken even if they are not the best.

bigmonto.4215:

This is only true for meditation Guardians, which I agree is hard to play, but it is one of the top dueling/roaming builds, they can completely destroy a warrior.

For AH and shout (Honor + Virtues) Guardians this is not true. I thought most of the group oriented Guardian are of these types. You get heals by dodging + buffing yourself and others and by doing nothing (virtue) . You give everyone else boon by pressing the shout. I don’t think this is harder to play than warrior.

First off, even AH shout guardians have more active play than warriors by a large margin. Even on boon duration builds, even with save yourselves, you have to time your protection/regeneration correctly in order to survive well. Protection is useless at times, and useful at others, and Guardians do not have perma protection. Without protection, Guardian is a warrior with 1/2 the hp. You’re right on the meditation guard bit, and meditation Guardian CAN destroy a warrior, but warrior is just as capable of destroying meditation guard.

But you can see how this might be a problem right? Different people play at different skill levels. To a low level player Warrior is consider OPed, because its attack are direct and its affect easily understood. But because its animation are obvious, and dodge-able by a seasoned player, warrior is ok at the higher level of play. In fact its effort required are the same if not more than that of other classes, since he will need to anticipate his opponent’s avoidance, and will have a difficult time avoid classes with less than obvious attacks. So the question is who should Anet be listening to?

Having very telegraphed attacks does not make something balanced… High level duelists will tell you the same. You can only dodge so often, and sometimes you have to dodge the non super hard hitting abilties (e.g. dodging a bulls charge) leaving you vulnerable to harder hitting ones. There are only so many dodges, so having telegraphed attacks isn’t always a crippling factor. Another thing to mention is a war can get a ton of damage in other wars. This includes combos (e.g. knockdown/stun then eviscerate, immob then hundred blades, axe auto attack, gs 3 etc…).

Warrior has more than just telegraphed attacks in order to supplement it’s attack. Have you ever considered, for example, using 1h sword just to immob (with f1, it has no tell as immob is applied instantly at the start of the attack) and then swapping (before the f1 finishes) to GS to hundred blades? You have to think in terms of combos. If I dodge shield 4, then bulls charge, how do I dodge an eviscerate? Only on certain classes will certain class mechanics save me, and then the warrior has another weaponset…

If Anet listening to most people commenting here then ele and eng should be the most Oped class and will dominated tPvP and no other class will really be able to compete. If Anet listen to the top-tier players then its basically saying a classes “it’s the best at something/can’t be beat” and should be nerfed. And you have to agree warrior is not that class.

Well, Warrior does have things about it that should be nerfed though. Specifically, mobility, it’s broken/stupid that the heavy/berserker class, the most naturally tanky class in the game, can run away faster than any light armor/medium armor classes. Another thing to look into is changing the dynamic of how warrior works, making it less passive and more active. Make healing sig something like “berserker’s signet”, every time you do actual damage (not condition damage) you gain 500 hp on a 1s cd. Potentially, this gives warrior more survivability but makes it so he has to engage and fight instead of kiting with GS. The only kiters then could be lb/rifle wars, and those 2 sets have 0 mobility and would have to rely on cc (making it a more interesting match).

honestly it’s the fact that they can just become immune to damage and conditions along with insane regen and CC… granted a lot of styles for them require high skill but there are also plenty of easy-win no-skill builds that will take a crap on anyone who doesn’t have a much higher level of skill then them.

Arius.7031:

First off, even AH shout guardians have more active play than warriors by a large margin. Even on boon duration builds, even with save yourselves, you have to time your protection/regeneration correctly in order to survive well. Protection is useless at times, and useful at others, and Guardians do not have perma protection. Without protection, Guardian is a warrior with 1/2 the hp. You’re right on the meditation guard bit, and meditation Guardian CAN destroy a warrior, but warrior is just as capable of destroying meditation guard.

….

See that’s the point, a AH + shout guardian is still pretty decent play at the lower level. You can spam shout, dodging randomly and will still help the team and do relatively well. Of course to maximize the effectiveness of each skill requires practice and timing. This is the same thing with warrior. A warrior at the low level can spam hammer attacks in the general direction of a target, and do relatively well. But at the higher level that’s not going to work. You also need timing, positioning, and observation to land your hammer attacks.

Yes there are limit number of dodges, but dodge is not the only thing that counter warriors, blind + blocks, kiting, conditional cleanse, stun breaks… all works. If you are immob by sw f1, can’t you cleanse that immob? Can’t you bring up your protection on the 100 blade, or your block on the final strike, or evis? For other professions, you can stun or daze or interrupt the 100b? Of course at low level of play, they can’t, they either didn’t know GS/sw warrior will try to land that 100b or just not reacting fast enough. And a higher level warrior will have to watch out for all these things as well, not just dodges.

And yes there are certain things can be changed for the warrior. This is true for every single class out there. Not sure if mobility is one of them, since only GS is really more mobile than others, and its no where compare to stealth classes at running away. If anything Guardian need more soft CCs. I also don’t agree on we should change how warrior works, passive heal is only very small part of it. Warrior aren’t that passive in combat in terms of positioning, and movement, and if you factor in combo and cancel, its more active than many other classes. I do agree that it should buff warrior’s other heals, so warriors actually have an option for active heal.

/closethread warriors have been getting nerfs the last 3 patches. If you think warrior is OP then you haven’t face/played a thief.

I’m copy/pasting what I posted in the Ready Up post because it’s relevant.

This “Warrior is best at every” crap is really getting to be annoying. Warrior is decent at several things,but it is FAR from the “best” at everything.

• Ele, Thief, and even Guardian can have higher DPS

• Guardian, Ele, and Engi can have better sustain

• Guardians and Eles offer better group support

• Necromancers and Engis have better AoE Conditions

• You could argue that in PvP Engis have better CC since the pushbacks are much more valuable than stuns and knockdowns.

• [EDIT] Thief has superior mobility

I also see people acting like Warrior can do everything in one build, which in nonsense. Hambow is predictable and its most damaging attacks avoidable. Celestial Axebow has little to no way to deny a stomp. Skullcracker is vulnerable to condi overload once Zerker Stance is up. Condi Warrior is shut down by any build/team with decent cleanse and again lacks stomp denial. All of the Warrior meta builds have gaping holes just waiting to be exploited.

The fact that we still have people complaining about Warrior when Celestial Eles and Engis exist is mind boggling. Let;s not forget the major weakness in most all Warrior builds that they left out, massive telegraphs. Basically every single heavy hitter has a big neon sign letting you know it’s coming. It’s not the classes fault that there’s a race race of chibi rat people that have difficult to see animations. It’s also not the classes fault that some rune sets make some builds stronger than they were.

————————

To add on from that, heavy armor is not that much stronger than medium or light. Protection is much more valuable, or being able to just not take damage in the first place. That ties in with the health pool, compared to other classes Warrior generally has to just eat the attacks that come their way. They can’t stealth, teleport, use Aegis, spam evades (1 skill on GS), or consistently block (Mace and Shield only with 1 short on on offhand sword), nor do they have large amounts of blind (1 on LB with a fairly long CD). They have no real invulnerability skills like Elixir S or Mist Form, they have skills that reduce ONE type of damage to 0, but the attacks themselves still connect.

If you’re only going to point out the strengths of a class, you’re not actually being objective about it. You can’t just say “Warrior does X, Y, and Z better” without acknowledging what they CAN’T do.

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).