Hi guys,
i just want to start by saying that i’m not here to whine or QQ, i’m here to understand one thing:
-The difference of the warrior class between PvP and WvW
I have 4 classes i use regularly: warrior, ele, thief and mesmer.
I am 60/70% of my time in pvp, where i use all of my classes with good results, lately (2 months) i started doin some solo roaming in wvw with my mesmer and thief, succesfully most of the time, probably because the average level of player skills in wvw is way lower compared to Arenas.
But here comes my problem, i find warriors in WvW absolutely over the top, and while i almost never lose to any kind of warrior in pvp, due to their extremely predictable rotations and skill animations, even when i use my thief (my newest class),
i find them almost unkillable in WvW unless i’m using some cheesy condi build, but to be honest, i never do that.
Last day i fought over and over a warrior (and i have to admit he was not skilled at all) with my zerker DP thief (shadow arts classic roaming build). It was incredible what i was watching.
While i wasnt able to burst him down to 50% life, even chaining backstabs and other things constantly applying poison to weaken his HS etc etc… he was able to hit me for not less than 60/70% of my life with both eviscerate and earthshaker.
That was almost laughable, i knew i’d never win that match, but i wanted to stay there and try and try again, but that was impossible. I was defending myself with all the things i could, blinds, stealths, teleports etc, but with one error i was down to 30% of my life, while he was eating all of my bursts while swinging randomly his hammer.
Conclusion:
I personally think that the problem is the base statistics of the warrior class.
The base damage is too high and health too, this 2 things together make the class a bunker and a zerker at the same time.
Notice that i’m talking ONLY about WvW stats, i’m one of the few guys that dont find hambow a problem in pvp.
What do you guys think about that?
With shadow arts you were supposed to win since you can heal just as much as the warrior but without SA it’s obvious that you have to completely outplay the warrior to win.
Warrior is not that OP but its really forgiving since you can make so many mistakes, large HP pool+ healing signet + stances = face tanking all the damage without dodging unlike the thief who misses 1 dodge and lose at least 40% of his health.
.
The problem is it’s WvW there are no points you have to fight over can kite to your liking or abilities allow and even CnD off chickens.
Someone else will point out I’m sure how you mention you find them predictable in PvP but in your story you are getting hit with Eviscerate and Earthshaker 2 high damage but telegraphed skills.
Anyway it was a duel or 1v1 encounter there are no points PvP =/= WvW. WvW is a sandbox.
So your suggestion here is to essentially nerf the warrior base damage and health in WvW so you can kill them with a 6 SA D/P thief build in a 1v1. Does that really sound like a good reason to adjust warriors health and damage? Your 1v1 experience?
I run 6 SA and 6 trickery with S/D and if the warrior stays and fights I find it personally even the warrior can leave the fight when he wants but I can do the same on my thief.
What do you want to say?
Warrs are king of the ring, that’s what Anet wants them to be, deal with it.
/thread
A D/P thief should have no problems killing an axe/hammer warrior in in WvW. If you are going to run zerker in WvW don’t complain about losing 60% of your health in 1 attack chain. Thieves can do the same to a zerker warrior with a good BS chain or PW. I think you just got out played. Roaming WvW is a completely different game than PvP. Builds are different, stats are different, foods and consumables play a huge part, if you don’t adjust your play for it get ready to get owned.
The problem with WvW is that there’s so many performance enhancers. Things like food and guard stacks can allow a Warrior to cover up any weak points that exist in their build. You can run -40% condi duration food and give up Cleansing Ire for something like Last Stand or Merciless Hammer and then have room for Defy Pain in the GM slot. You can run a tanky armor set and subsidize your naturally lower DPS with guard stacks, or you can do the same thing with a more glassy set, getting tons more HP.
Every class can do that but it can help Warriors more because the whole point of them having high base stats is because they lack other forms of sustain. it works fine in PvP because there’s no food/guard stacks there. Without those buffs in WvW the Warrior isn’t really that much harder to take on than any other class. WvW is just imbalanced by nature and that’s unlikely to change. ANet doesn’t want to split the balance so it seems really unfair to nerf a class in PvP because of factors in WvW.
A D/P thief should have no problems killing an axe/hammer warrior in in WvW. If you are going to run zerker in WvW don’t complain about losing 60% of your health in 1 attack chain. Thieves can do the same to a zerker warrior with a good BS chain or PW. I think you just got out played. Roaming WvW is a completely different game than PvP. Builds are different, stats are different, foods and consumables play a huge part, if you don’t adjust your play for it get ready to get owned.
Thank all the guys for the feedback ^^
My issue here is different and i think you didnt understand, the problem is that the warrior was probably running soldier gear or a mix of stats, of course he was not zerker, but he was outdamaging me.
I dont have any problem to admit when players outskill me, especially when i lose to my thief, a class i started using 2 weeks ago and leveled only with tomes, but in that case it was just not a even fight.
The problem is it’s WvW there are no points you have to fight over can kite to your liking or abilities allow and even CnD off chickens.
Someone else will point out I’m sure how you mention you find them predictable in PvP but in your story you are getting hit with Eviscerate and Earthshaker 2 high damage but telegraphed skills.
Anyway it was a duel or 1v1 encounter there are no points PvP =/= WvW. WvW is a sandbox.
So your suggestion here is to essentially nerf the warrior base damage and health in WvW so you can kill them with a 6 SA D/P thief build in a 1v1. Does that really sound like a good reason to adjust warriors health and damage? Your 1v1 experience?
I run 6 SA and 6 trickery with S/D and if the warrior stays and fights I find it personally even the warrior can leave the fight when he wants but I can do the same on my thief.
Yeah i was espressing my opinion based on a 1v1 lost with a class i’m new at using, that is wrong.
I probably got shocked but how un-even the fight was from the start O.O
As you said i could have runned away any time during the fight, i just wanted to stay there and fight to understand what i was doin wrong.
The problem here is that while i was running a 2-6-6-0-0 almost full zerk build i was constantly outdamaged by a semi bunker warrior.
As for getting hitted by the F1 skills, i was fighting for 10 minutes against this war, and at some point you always run out of Stun Breakers and cant dodge/blind, and when the enemy class can use the F1 every 7-10 seconds, before or after he will hit you.
What kind of suggestion could you give me against this fights?
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…
so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
A lot of people still think that adrenal health ticks 360 every second. It’s every 3 seconds. So 120 every second if you never use your adrenaline. Average 50 hps during a fight sounds about right.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.
Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
(edited by Julie Yann.5379)
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
A lot of people still think that adrenal health ticks 360 every second. It’s every 3 seconds. So 120 every second if you never use your adrenaline. Average 50 hps during a fight sounds about right.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Soldier warrior can still crit 8k-10k eviscerate because of the high base damage and multipliers from traits.
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
A lot of people still think that adrenal health ticks 360 every second. It’s every 3 seconds. So 120 every second if you never use your adrenaline. Average 50 hps during a fight sounds about right.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Soldier warrior can still crit 8k-10k eviscerate because of the high base damage and multipliers from traits.
You’re only going to hit those numbers on a really glassy foe. Soldier’s has no Ferocity, on anyone with a decent amount of toughness it’s going to be around 4-6k if the Warrior wants to have some actual sustain in their build. I’m not going to count things like Guard Stacks and other Buffs because that’s not the class’s fault and they’re also available to anyone with the time/money.
We really need to stop exaggerating when it comes to ANY class. In the last several days I’ve seen exaggerations on the damage, weapon swaps, healing per second (Adrenal Health is every THREE SECONDS people, and most wars only have full adren for MAYBE one tic), and several other things. If you’re going to say something about a class, go to the wiki and read up on what you’re talking about.
Zerker thief, problem one,
Second one if it a HS war use poison, watch out for cc
Zerker thief, problem one,
Second one if it a HS war use poison, watch out for cc
and learn to manage your blinds properly. Well placed blinds will shut down pretty much any build not using a longbow.
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
A lot of people still think that adrenal health ticks 360 every second. It’s every 3 seconds. So 120 every second if you never use your adrenaline. Average 50 hps during a fight sounds about right.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Soldier warrior can still crit 8k-10k eviscerate because of the high base damage and multipliers from traits.
You’re only going to hit those numbers on a really glassy foe. Soldier’s has no Ferocity, on anyone with a decent amount of toughness it’s going to be around 4-6k if the Warrior wants to have some actual sustain in their build. I’m not going to count things like Guard Stacks and other Buffs because that’s not the class’s fault and they’re also available to anyone with the time/money.
We really need to stop exaggerating when it comes to ANY class. In the last several days I’ve seen exaggerations on the damage, weapon swaps, healing per second (Adrenal Health is every THREE SECONDS people, and most wars only have full adren for MAYBE one tic), and several other things. If you’re going to say something about a class, go to the wiki and read up on what you’re talking about.
You can even test it yourself in PvP, go take soldier amulet with intel sigil , Axe/sword longbow with 25 stacks of might you crit way more than 8k on a glass thief.
The thing is thief is the only class in the game that is forced to go full glass to deal damage which makes it very high risk unlike warrior/necro who can abuse crit chance and damage from traits/sigils/runes while being tanky as kitten.
As I said its not OP but the thief has to be very skilled to out -play a warrior without shadow arts.
We can’t have an objective debate about Warriors balance as long as Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing are ticking away for over 600 HPS. That’s just ridiculous. It turns every Block, every immunity and every evade into a 1-4k heal.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Yes, other things are probably OP too but nothing comes close to the passive healing. And until we see it nerfed/changed we can’t really objectively kitten other imbalances.
HAHAHa! You must be living in 2013 i think?
Because i and almost all warriors get around 360-370 from HS these days.. And lets say you have always 50% adrenaline (full adrenaline is never using CI so 50% is much more reality) thats another 50 health per second…so its around 410-420
but ofc still people think its 600+ hps…
A lot of people still think that adrenal health ticks 360 every second. It’s every 3 seconds. So 120 every second if you never use your adrenaline. Average 50 hps during a fight sounds about right.
This smells like Soldiers+Sigil of Intelligence to me.
Normally not OP, but hilariously overpowered on warriors because of Evis having such huge base damage.Soldiers gives pretty crappy crit damage. Looks more like a Valk/Cav mix or a Cav/Zerk mix + sigil of intelligence.
Soldier warrior can still crit 8k-10k eviscerate because of the high base damage and multipliers from traits.
You’re only going to hit those numbers on a really glassy foe. Soldier’s has no Ferocity, on anyone with a decent amount of toughness it’s going to be around 4-6k if the Warrior wants to have some actual sustain in their build. I’m not going to count things like Guard Stacks and other Buffs because that’s not the class’s fault and they’re also available to anyone with the time/money.
We really need to stop exaggerating when it comes to ANY class. In the last several days I’ve seen exaggerations on the damage, weapon swaps, healing per second (Adrenal Health is every THREE SECONDS people, and most wars only have full adren for MAYBE one tic), and several other things. If you’re going to say something about a class, go to the wiki and read up on what you’re talking about.
You can even test it yourself in PvP, go take soldier amulet with intel sigil , Axe/sword longbow with 25 stacks of might you crit way more than 8k on a glass thief.
The thing is thief is the only class in the game that is forced to go full glass to deal damage which makes it very high risk unlike warrior/necro who can abuse crit chance and damage from traits/sigils/runes while being tanky as kitten.
As I said its not OP but the thief has to be very skilled to out -play a warrior without shadow arts.
I run axe all the time and even with 25 stacks of might you’d be lucky to hit that high on someone who’s not glass. People keeps saying they see people running around with that amount constantly, which is total exaggeration unless your whole team is using blast finishers in which case teamwork OP. If I’m fighting a Thief I think I’d actually try to keep my Might stacks low if they’re S/D because all I’m going to do is run the risk of giving THEM my might. In fact, I’d imagine this meta is a boon-stealing Thief’s paradise which is why we see S/D so much.
Not to mention outside of the 3 crits on swap every 9 seconds Soldier DPS is rather low (less crit chance even with Fury). It’ll kill you but not fast, while Thief can take a target out much faster and just evade/teleport away if things go south.
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