Guild Wars 2

A lot of people already have spoken about this mechanic, keep this reclaim in anet eye and lest no stop until our voice reach the goal.

here some suggestions :
1- Stealth counter
2- no stealth combo finisher
3- 1 sec cast time to enter stealth
4- less spammable mechanic
5- break stealth upon enter battle or until damage is receive
6- increase damage on stealth players

anymore suggestions?

You posted suggestions without any concrete ways of putting them into practice.

1. How exactly would you want this to work? More items in the game along the lines of Stealth Traps or skills that cause Revealed? Blocking Stealth in its current state for more than 5 seconds with a skill would be going overboard in my opinion. Another forum goer suggested blasting or whirling in light fields should remove Stealth. That would be an interesting counterplay, but it wouldn’t be universal to all classes. Also, if more skills begin to apply Revealed, there should be a visible indicator on your character model instead of just the debuff icon.

2. I don’t think removing it entirely is the way to go. Maybe reducing the duration of the stealth offered through leaps and blasts?

3. How would this work? Is every skill that currently grants stealth going to now be a 1 second channel instead of an actual attack or utility? What happens to Cloak and Dagger? Blinding Powder?

4. Right now — depending on the weapon set — so much of a thief’s offense and defense is tied to stealth that reducing the access to it would crush certain playstyles. Look back at what happened when ANet initially changed Revealed to 4 seconds in PVE/WvW. Raising the base HP of low-tier classes could help somewhat. You wouldn’t need to rely on Stealth as much, but it would only be a bandaid.

5. Have you taken 2 steps in a battle in GW2 and not been hit? The amount of AOE and cleave in this game is ridiculous. Using things like Shadow Refuge and Mass Invis (or even just blasting smoke fields on thief/engineer) would just end in frustration and remove a large amount of tactics when deciding to disengage.

6. This could actually develop into something if balanced correctly, but I could also see it causing a lot of backlash towards thieves in WvW. Does it only apply to the caster or to allies under Stealth as well? How would Resilience of Shadows work? Maybe instead of more damage, there is a -25% debuff to movement speed? The thief trait Fleet Shadow would increase it to the base amount. This would give some extra benefit to running with access to swiftness or Traveler/Speed runes.

3 suggestions would fix the main problem everybody has with stealth (the burst, the lack of counters, and the availability).

1. You get ONE attempt per stealth for your stealth attack (Backstab, Sneak Attack, etc) to hit. If it misses, you lose it until after you exit stealth and then re-enter. This fixes the whole “spam backstab until success” thing since thieves will have one attempt at it before they have to exit stealth and try it again. Gives more risk to burst builds on thief.

2. A blocked direct attack (say from a backstab attempt or a heartseeker while in stealth) immediately pulls off stealth and puts on reveal. This gives a counter to stealth in the way of blocking attacks, something which almost every class has access to in some form.

3. Black Powder’s field is changed from Smoke to Dark field. This keeps the blinding ability the field has, but removes the easy stealth access the BP -> HS combo gave. This lowers the availability of stealth to Cloak and Dagger (easy to dodge and counter due to close range), and all the stealth utilities. This lowers the stealth spamming of thieves to requiring a target hit, something which puts them at an easier position to counter.

Of course if #3 came into play, #2 would be unnecessary due to the difficulty of keeping up stealth. Likewise if #1 and #2 came into play, #3 would be unnecessary.

Oh look, another anti-stealth thread with no reasonable suggestions.

RyuDragnier.9476:

3 suggestions

1 and 2 could actually be good ideas (assuming stealth actually needed balancing). Thief would for sure need access to more unblockable attacks as they are already getting kitten on by guards (basically immune to bas venom).

3 is terrible as it would be a ridiculously unfair nerf to the entire class for no reason. You’d just force every thief into a dodge spam s/d build.

kishter.9578:

A lot of people already have spoken about this mechanic, keep this reclaim in anet eye and lest no stop until our voice reach the goal.

here some suggestions :
1- Stealth counter
2- no stealth combo finisher
3- 1 sec cast time to enter stealth
4- less spammable mechanic
5- break stealth upon enter battle or until damage is receive
6- increase damage on stealth players

anymore suggestions?

here i give u a suggestion.

L2P and go play a thief if u think its op

kishter.9578:

A lot of people already have spoken about this mechanic, keep this reclaim in anet eye and lest no stop until our voice reach the goal.

here some suggestions :
1- Stealth counter
2- no stealth combo finisher
3- 1 sec cast time to enter stealth
4- less spammable mechanic
5- break stealth upon enter battle or until damage is receive
6- increase damage on stealth players

anymore suggestions?

A lot of people don’t want to learn how to counter stealth. That doesn’t mean that it needs a hard counter or any of these other things in addition to what already exists. That just means a lot of people are not willing to put in the effort and would rather complain on the forums instead.

The mechanic that lets my mes drop phants from stealth and thus effectively still deal damage while still being stealthed is kinda jacked up though… but the vast majority of the threads just cry out for a nerf to stealth that would wreck thieves (like this one).

Aberrant.6749:

kishter.9578:

A lot of people already have spoken about this mechanic, keep this reclaim in anet eye and lest no stop until our voice reach the goal.

here some suggestions :
1- Stealth counter
2- no stealth combo finisher
3- 1 sec cast time to enter stealth
4- less spammable mechanic
5- break stealth upon enter battle or until damage is receive
6- increase damage on stealth players

anymore suggestions?

A lot of people don’t want to learn how to counter stealth. That doesn’t mean that it needs a hard counter or any of these other things in addition to what already exists. That just means a lot of people are not willing to put in the effort and would rather complain on the forums instead.

The mechanic that lets my mes drop phants from stealth and thus effectively still deal damage while still being stealthed is kinda jacked up though… but the vast majority of the threads are about thieves (like this one).

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.

No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.

No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.

AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.

Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?

1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.

No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.

AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.

Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?

1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground

Depends on your class as far as how long the cd is. Eng has no problem with being able to put out AOE regularly. Aoe will at the very least limit their ability to stay on a capture point (in some cases it covers the entire point + more). Anything more isn’t necessary… unless you play WvW, and WvW is just borked altogether when it comes to balance (and stealth isn’t even close to the biggest reason why).

Being able to tell exactly where your opponent is would also kill stealth. That’s what a shadow or footsteps would do.

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.

No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.

AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.

Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?

1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground

Depends on your class as far as how long the cd is. Eng has no problem with being able to put out AOE regularly. Aoe will at the very least limit their ability to stay on a capture point (in some cases it covers the entire point + more). Anything more isn’t necessary.

Being able to tell exactly where your opponent is would also kill stealth.

At least some skill is involved. Same goes with toon animation to dodge or avoiding AoE rings on the floor, or differentiating clones from Mesmer if the toon casts or dodges. What skill other than stealth will give you a 5 players swinging mindlessly on hopes to hit a player in stealth?

People the trait line is to buff stealth not the other way around if I waste my skill points for tankiness I should have some tankiness LOGIC. If you never played thief then you have never experienced the struggle of a natural glass class.

Dear Arenanet.

As customer, gamer, and enthusiast i pretend to enjoy you game as much as i can, If i have the need to require some support or the feel to give you my feedback about some mechanic of you game to improve or to fix is my right to say it in the most respecter way.

In no way in my post i have offense personal, player or devs, so i dont know why If i created a thread asking suggestions may no be the best one, is ok another can improve and make a decent and contribution to the community, Do i have to get insulted.

l2p issue is no a issue, is just a empty response to insult and provoke. Its time to bring thief to the balance level and stop this more than a mechanic is like a exploit

Thief abuses Stealth to the point that it becomes obvious that without stealth, they do not know how to play.
Perhaps it is time that the Thief players L2P without depending on Stealth too much.

Nobody insulted you, afaict. If they did, you can report the post.
In the last Ready Up they said they felt that thief was where they wanted it to be, so don’t expect any major changes. If you have problems playing against them, ask for advice. Starting a thread to ask for major game changes is not likely to be productive.

Only one thing needs to change and that’s if the hit is negated in anyway then revealed is still applied. Skills with charges behave this way already in a sense. There is no reason other classes have to time burst skills around blocks and thieves can try until it lands. With mesmers casting a phantasm, since it is technically an attack, should also apply revealed.

Besides that it really is a matter of learning.

Stealth is really fine. Maybe shadow arts needs some nerfing, but the main problem is counter play to entering stealth. CnD you can block/evade/invuln/blind the attack to prevent them from entering stealth which is a good balance.

I don’t know much about mesmer stealthing so I won’t comment on it, but for thief the only real problems I see are:

Shadow arts possibly being a little too strong, but if you take shadow arts you lose a lot of offense that you could have from trickery or another line.

Free stealths from black powder → heartseeker combo, which doesn’t have much of the traditional counterplay like an attack such as CnD has. I know you can interrupt heartseeker, but it is extremely difficult to do it quickly because of blackpowder being a self combo (you get blinded by the bullet, even if you aren’t in the aoe). So you have to clear the blind then cast your stun, which is usually not quick enough before heartseeker goes through.

kishter.9578:

Thief abuses Stealth to the point that it becomes obvious that without stealth, they do not know how to play.
Perhaps it is time that the Thief players L2P without depending on Stealth too much.

If you think a thief that knows how to use stealth properly is tough to fight, just wait until you fight a good S/D thief. If Anet ever does give in to players like you who want stealth nerfed into the ground, then you’re going to regret forcing good thief players to go S/D build routes instead. It’s going to be more of us destroying you, just instead of avoiding your attacks in stealth, we’ll do it all right in front of your face and make you feel even more helpless.

My friend showed me this comic that I think sums up a lot of the threads on the forum here… lol..

We need a solution now for turret engi!!
We need a solution now for decap engi!!
We need a solution now for warrior stunt chain!
We need a solution now for warrior pasive healing!!
We need a solution now for warrior s/s lb condi spec!!!
We need a solution now for necros fear chain!!
We need a solution now for power minion necro!!!
We need a solution now for necro linch burst!!
We need a solution now for PU mesmer!!
We need a solution now for DPS Guardian!!
We need a solution now for Gurdians contant blocks!!!
We need a solution now for Might stack ele!!!
We need a solution now for ranger bear bow!!
We need a solution now for spirit ranger!!!

and i could go on and on and on and on . . .

You are complaining (probably for WvW since SPVP stealth is a bad thing to play) basically for a profession that is good 1v1 against new people that has is not even close to be good in what is supposes to be good in WvW . . . . zerg friend.

Man i will give the solution you seek . . . L2P.

I personally feel Stealth is designed poorly in this game, but this crusade against it does the game a disservice.

No marching on Jerusalem screaming “God wills it!”. Threads have already been created where Stealth is being discussed, so any perceptions/opinions can be dropped into those.

The kicker is that I don’t think we “need” a solution for Stealth. I just think the mechanic could be more fun for both players and allow the better Thieves to shine brighter. I have higher aspirations for classes like Thief that are designed to rely more on mobility and reflexes to allow skill to shine through, and it just seems too lenient to me at the moment.

EDIT – And out of curiosity, if S/D is so vastly superior to a Dagger/Backstab-oriented build and will result in a lot more Thieves killing people, why is it still mostly absent from the WvW scene? I actually have a lot more fun fighting S/D Thieves, personally.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Aberrant.6749:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.

Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.

No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.

AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.

Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?

1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground

Depends on your class as far as how long the cd is. Eng has no problem with being able to put out AOE regularly. Aoe will at the very least limit their ability to stay on a capture point (in some cases it covers the entire point + more). Anything more isn’t necessary.

Being able to tell exactly where your opponent is would also kill stealth.

At least some skill is involved. Same goes with toon animation to dodge or avoiding AoE rings on the floor, or differentiating clones from Mesmer if the toon casts or dodges. What skill other than stealth will give you a 5 players swinging mindlessly on hopes to hit a player in stealth?

If you understand what the theif is trying to do and what would be best for that thief at that time you’ll know (about) where he is.

If you were able to tell where he was there would be far less skill involved.

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

^lol

Remove all other things from all other classes that increase damage while under whichever special effect then.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

^lol

Remove all other things from all other classes that increase damage while under whichever special effect then.

Like what other things from all other classes? (Even though I never mentioned a particular class in my post).

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

SUGGESTION IMPLIMENTED!

There never was any.

Zacchary.6183:

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

SUGGESTION IMPLIMENTED!

There never was any.

100% crit from stealth does increase your damage (unless you have 100% crit naturally). But yea… it’s still not much.

8. 100% critical change when stealth, 100% critical damage received when you remain in stealth.

Aberrant.6749:

Zacchary.6183:

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

SUGGESTION IMPLIMENTED!

There never was any.

100% crit from stealth does increase your damage (unless you have 100% crit naturally). But yea… it’s still not much.

Lol Sir was right I was talking about thieves.

Hidden Killer
Revealed Training
Backstab

to name a few.

In fact I would say it should be impossible to crit when attacking from stealth. Or at least have your natural crit chance halved.

Thieves are so op that 45% of the game is guardians 40% warriors and 0,2-1% is thieves plz nerf theivess qq so they can never ever kill a player again!!

I doubt stealth bothers anyone in PvE and people should be able to play their thief how they enjoy.
When it comes to sPvP, the few changes made a stealth thief’s life a lot harder than it used to be. But that is simply because you either want to take down somebody that actually gains from every second the ring stay’s his teams color or knows that the thief’s final objective is the capture of the ring which does put some pressure on the thief.
In WvW, it is far from being the case, they come try to kill you, run away, reset & re-engage until they wear you out or that you get somewhere safe as a keep, because you have no chance of killing them alone.
The other day a mesmer was waiting dead in lord’s room and it took 30 ppl way too long to find and kill the thief waiting to res that player. And anet, that was far from “fun”.

Edit: we finally only got him using a stupid stealth trap, for 30 ppl to kill 1 player requiring a stealth trap = broken

LostBalloon.6423:

I doubt stealth bothers anyone in PvE and people should be able to play their thief how they enjoy.
When it comes to sPvP, the few changes made a stealth thief’s life a lot harder than it used to be. But that is simply because you either want to take down somebody that actually gains from every second the ring stay’s his teams color or knows that the thief’s final objective is the capture of the ring which does put some pressure on the thief.
In WvW, it is far from being the case, they come try to kill you, run away, reset & re-engage until they wear you out or that you get somewhere safe as a keep, because you have no chance of killing them alone.
The other day a mesmer was waiting dead in lord’s room and it took 30 ppl way too long to find and kill the thief waiting to res that player. And anet, that was far from “fun”.

Edit: we finally only got him using a stupid stealth trap, for 30 ppl to kill 1 player requiring a stealth trap = broken

I agree. Currently, in tpvp, conquest mode puts stealth in a disadvantage which is ironic for a mechanic with no hard counters in this game. But in wvw, it’s another story. The fact that it’s the only spammable skill in this game with 0 hard counter is absurd! If 3v3 arena becomes the norm in the near futur… god, I don’t want to imagine the amount of pu mesmer and thief fotm rerolls…. Hell, I’ll be one of them.

LostBalloon.6423:

Edit: we finally only got him using a stupid stealth trap, for 30 ppl to kill 1 player requiring a stealth trap = broken

The problem was actually that you tried to use 30 people to counter 1 Thief. How many of those 30 understand what to do against Thieves in a small-scale situation? I’d honestly say it might be 3. Maybe. The other 27 are CnD fodder.

If the Thief wasn’t D/D, then it should have been easy to pick the Thief out of his BP. Only the person the Thief targets gets blinded, so any Necro in the vicinity should have Feared him before Heartseeker finishes.

The other day, we had a Thief in our keep CnDing off of walls. I caught him with a fear while he was mid CnD against another wall after about 20 seconds, then he died. What exactly was “way too long” for 30 people?

Some minor coordination is all it takes, but you aren’t going to coordinate 30 frustrated people, and Thief thrives on frustration. I bet after 10 seconds everyone was frustrated about the Thief class, when they should have been frustrated at themselves.

I almost can’t believe I’m defending Thieves/Stealth, but too many people are approaching this from a “Thieves frustrate me and I don’t deserve to be frustrated” perspective and not a “I think this mechanic could be designed better” perspective.

Cogbyrn.7283:

LostBalloon.6423:

Edit: we finally only got him using a stupid stealth trap, for 30 ppl to kill 1 player requiring a stealth trap = broken

The problem was actually that you tried to use 30 people to counter 1 Thief. How many of those 30 understand what to do against Thieves in a small-scale situation? I’d honestly say it might be 3. Maybe. The other 27 are CnD fodder.

If the Thief wasn’t D/D, then it should have been easy to pick the Thief out of his BP. Only the person the Thief targets gets blinded, so any Necro in the vicinity should have Feared him before Heartseeker finishes.

The other day, we had a Thief in our keep CnDing off of walls. I caught him with a fear while he was mid CnD against another wall after about 20 seconds, then he died. What exactly was “way too long” for 30 people?

Some minor coordination is all it takes, but you aren’t going to coordinate 30 frustrated people, and Thief thrives on frustration. I bet after 10 seconds everyone was frustrated about the Thief class, when they should have been frustrated at themselves.

I almost can’t believe I’m defending Thieves/Stealth, but too many people are approaching this from a “Thieves frustrate me and I don’t deserve to be frustrated” perspective and not a “I think this mechanic could be designed better” perspective.

Regardless, if anet doesn’t want to add any hard counters, then stealth should be a NON-SPAMMABLE tool only used to reset a fight and/or runway and/or gaining an advantage in the opener.

Shadow refuge is the perfect example of how stealth should be : Counterable with aoe cc, long cd, long duration, and encourage high skill level play and timing from both thief, and his opponent.

However, weapon skills/combo fields that give stealth is so abundant that whenever thief feels he might lose the fight, spamming stealth comes into play to the point where they just play an attrition game often won by the thief. Now don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think thief were designed to be such a monster in attrition fight… This is probably why anet sticks with conquest -Not the only reason, but probably one of them nonetheless-, and doesn’t want to introduce any 3v3 deathmatch.

Obviously, making any significant nerf to stealth would have to come with some significant buffs. Maybe make some trait not so kitten dependant to stealth might be a good start. Almost their whole trait line rely on it… surviviability wise.

Johje Holan.4607:

Aberrant.6749:

Zacchary.6183:

Johje Holan.4607:

7. Remove all traits and skills and anything else that increases damage when attacking from stealth.

SUGGESTION IMPLIMENTED!

There never was any.

100% crit from stealth does increase your damage (unless you have 100% crit naturally). But yea… it’s still not much.

Lol Sir was right I was talking about thieves.

Hidden Killer
Revealed Training
Backstab

to name a few.

In fact I would say it should be impossible to crit when attacking from stealth. Or at least have your natural crit chance halved.

He’s saying that there is nothing that increases damage when attacking from stealth. Hidden Killer only guarantees a critical. If you were going to crit anyways, you would have done the same damage. Revealed Training is applied when you’re revealed, not when you’re in stealth. Backstab doesn’t increase in damage when you’re in stealth since you can’t normally perform it outside of stealth.

LostBalloon.6423:

I doubt stealth bothers anyone in PvE and people should be able to play their thief how they enjoy.
When it comes to sPvP, the few changes made a stealth thief’s life a lot harder than it used to be. But that is simply because you either want to take down somebody that actually gains from every second the ring stay’s his teams color or knows that the thief’s final objective is the capture of the ring which does put some pressure on the thief.
In WvW, it is far from being the case, they come try to kill you, run away, reset & re-engage until they wear you out or that you get somewhere safe as a keep, because you have no chance of killing them alone.
The other day a mesmer was waiting dead in lord’s room and it took 30 ppl way too long to find and kill the thief waiting to res that player. And anet, that was far from “fun”.

Edit: we finally only got him using a stupid stealth trap, for 30 ppl to kill 1 player requiring a stealth trap = broken

I wonder if anyone ever understands that perhaps being slippery and sneaky was probably part of the thief’s design? Maybe that’s the reason they’re called thieves? Here’s the main description from the gw2 site:

“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”

godz raiden.2631:

kishter.9578:

Thief abuses Stealth to the point that it becomes obvious that without stealth, they do not know how to play.
Perhaps it is time that the Thief players L2P without depending on Stealth too much.

If you think a thief that knows how to use stealth properly is tough to fight, just wait until you fight a good S/D thief. If Anet ever does give in to players like you who want stealth nerfed into the ground, then you’re going to regret forcing good thief players to go S/D build routes instead. It’s going to be more of us destroying you, just instead of avoiding your attacks in stealth, we’ll do it all right in front of your face and make you feel even more helpless.

S/D is not as great as the community and users claim it is still heavy initiative costing depending on who you are fighting. Stealth gets team pressure of you in team battles since they can’t see you as soon as I see S/D thief you’re my first target if you can stealth like me let the struggle begin.
I feel like everyone posting on this thread or any stealth related ones forgot that thief is supposed to easily engage and disengage. The best of doing it you ask? = stealth. If you feel like stealth gets rewarded too much that’s why it’s almost a base mechanism since I don’t think that high of Steal unless they make it more interesting.
The only close to reliable way to disengage is SB but no weapon should be enforced for the class to work properly. There is no solution to stealth it’s almost the same as adrenaline or death pool. It’s the class role based on the game not me.

Honestly I see the nerf stealth threads mute. I use to main a thief before I went onto an elementalist. Thieves are fine and after maining a thief since head start it’s very easy to counter a thief in stealth. You just need to observe your opponent and decide when to make your move. I crush thieves on my elementalist, if they stealth typically wait a second then ether port, block, or use a skill that will put distance from where you’re at or use one that negates melee damage. This prevents the thief from landing his most potent skill. Yeah he can retry again but it’s your duty through active play to prevent him from getting the advantage and getting into stealth or landing that skill.

If you see a thief will dual pistols, he’s not a threat and even if he runs venom share with thief guild and pirate runes to do a mass condition bomb, just wait for the venoms to be used then cleanse. No more conditions then and the venoms have a long recharge along with the thieves guild. And P/P has no stealth outside of a weapon swap/utilities and he can only really spam #3 or auto attack.

Shortbow is used more for distance and running away then fighting with thieves typically. Ether let him spam his evade and his initiative is out then close the gap or keep the gap closed the whole time.

Sword/dagger is tricky and is normally more on an evade build. You’ll have to read and observe your opponent’s attack pattern and when he busts out those evades and time it right. Rarely will these thieves use stealth and if he does, like before put distance or use a skill that negates melee skills. The next feat is countering the thieves gap closing with #2. Watch where he ported from with it and drag the fight back to where he originally used it. No gap closing needed and puts him/her in more danger if they decide to disengage.

Sword/pistol is easy. Avoid the pistol whips, and the blinding powder. If you need keep some gap to prevent those.

If you see a thief use shadow refuge, then ether unload some AoE or auto attack and watch to see if you hit the second skill in the auto chain, if a thief uses shadow refuge they are trying to disengage because they’re low on health or the fight is mute. Chances are it’s because he’s low on health and just a few simple attack will down him and then it’s about making sure he can’t resurrect himself. All you gotta do when he’s downed is land an attack on him while he’s in stealth so bandage won’t work and you negate his regeneration in stealth if he has it traited so.

The only trickery set up is a well played P/D thief. But just outplay him as above and as long as you manage your skills and health you’ll outlast him and beat him.

If you’re doing WvWvW roaming, then expect thieves to get away unless you duel there. There’s a lot of directions he can go and critters to stealth off of. A thief that runs, lost. Even though you don’t get loot for his defeat, consider it a show of skill that you beat him. But chances are you would only get a spike for his death and not a precursor so really don’t worry about the loot.

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. It was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Thief is soft already want to know hard counters having to go in SA and/or Acrobatics,having useless pvp weapon set P/P,S/P, rely on burst condi or crit if we try to make it a long fight we lose, no thief survives without having some kind of stealth other than S/D users who still have SR, more people in battle the lesser you matter unless you use stealth….
So let’s see what are my options to play maybe try popular S/D build mmm it seem hambow famous to me nah I’ll go P/D just for fun since D/… doesn’t work for me because I die too fast without stealth….
It’s so great having so much options isn’t it?!!!

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Thief is soft already want to know hard counters having to go in SA and/or Acrobatics,having useless pvp weapon set P/P,S/P, rely on burst condi or crit if we try to make it a long fight we lose, no thief survives without having some kind of stealth other than S/D users who still have SR, more people in battle the lesser you matter unless you use stealth….
So let’s see what are my options to play maybe try popular S/D build mmm it seem hambow famous to me nah I’ll go P/D just for fun since D/… doesn’t work for me because I die too fast without stealth….
It’s so great having so much options isn’t it?!!!

Poplolita.2638:

Obviously, making any significant nerf to stealth would have to come with some significant buffs. Maybe make some trait not so kitten dependant to stealth might be a good start. Almost their whole trait line rely on it… surviviability wise.

;) Also, s/d thief is incredible, almost perfectly balanced if it wasn’t for that spam evade, but anyway, you should try it! I did, and it felt like amazing!

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Thief is soft already want to know hard counters having to go in SA and/or Acrobatics,having useless pvp weapon set P/P,S/P, rely on burst condi or crit if we try to make it a long fight we lose, no thief survives without having some kind of stealth other than S/D users who still have SR, more people in battle the lesser you matter unless you use stealth….
So let’s see what are my options to play maybe try popular S/D build mmm it seem hambow famous to me nah I’ll go P/D just for fun since D/… doesn’t work for me because I die too fast without stealth….
It’s so great having so much options isn’t it?!!!

Poplolita.2638:

Obviously, making any significant nerf to stealth would have to come with some significant buffs. Maybe make some trait not so kitten dependant to stealth might be a good start. Almost their whole trait line rely on it… surviviability wise.

;)

Would like to let go of stealth for a while but nothing is here yet so I will be using it to the max till something can replace it. Let’s see how the devs handle this request. I only use condition builds in pvp.

LostBalloon.6423:

The other day a mesmer was waiting dead in lord’s room and it took 30 ppl way too long to find and kill the thief waiting to res that player. And anet, that was far from “fun”.

That was stupid, one would have been enough, you don’t have to find him, sooner or later he’ll try to rezz the mesmer so all you have to do is watch it’s corpse. When he starts to rezz, sound the alarm.

Don’t blame the mechanics for bad player decisions.

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Your right soft counter =/= hard counter but it is still a counter which by your own admission then stealth has viable counters. If they were to add hard counters, would need to remove soft counters and buff non stealth ALOT to balance. However, none of that needs to be done, since stealth has counters

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Honestly I see the nerf stealth threads mute. I use to main a thief before I went onto an elementalist. Thieves are fine and after maining a thief since head start it’s very easy to counter a thief in stealth. You just need to observe your opponent and decide when to make your move. I crush thieves on my elementalist, if they stealth typically wait a second then ether port, block, or use a skill that will put distance from where you’re at or use one that negates melee damage. This prevents the thief from landing his most potent skill. Yeah he can retry again but it’s your duty through active play to prevent him from getting the advantage and getting into stealth or landing that skill.

If you see a thief will dual pistols, he’s not a threat and even if he runs venom share with thief guild and pirate runes to do a mass condition bomb, just wait for the venoms to be used then cleanse. No more conditions then and the venoms have a long recharge along with the thieves guild. And P/P has no stealth outside of a weapon swap/utilities and he can only really spam #3 or auto attack.

Shortbow is used more for distance and running away then fighting with thieves typically. Ether let him spam his evade and his initiative is out then close the gap or keep the gap closed the whole time.

Sword/dagger is tricky and is normally more on an evade build. You’ll have to read and observe your opponent’s attack pattern and when he busts out those evades and time it right. Rarely will these thieves use stealth and if he does, like before put distance or use a skill that negates melee skills. The next feat is countering the thieves gap closing with #2. Watch where he ported from with it and drag the fight back to where he originally used it. No gap closing needed and puts him/her in more danger if they decide to disengage.

Sword/pistol is easy. Avoid the pistol whips, and the blinding powder. If you need keep some gap to prevent those.

If you see a thief use shadow refuge, then ether unload some AoE or auto attack and watch to see if you hit the second skill in the auto chain, if a thief uses shadow refuge they are trying to disengage because they’re low on health or the fight is mute. Chances are it’s because he’s low on health and just a few simple attack will down him and then it’s about making sure he can’t resurrect himself. All you gotta do when he’s downed is land an attack on him while he’s in stealth so bandage won’t work and you negate his regeneration in stealth if he has it traited so.

The only trickery set up is a well played P/D thief. But just outplay him as above and as long as you manage your skills and health you’ll outlast him and beat him.

If you’re doing WvWvW roaming, then expect thieves to get away unless you duel there. There’s a lot of directions he can go and critters to stealth off of. A thief that runs, lost. Even though you don’t get loot for his defeat, consider it a show of skill that you beat him. But chances are you would only get a spike for his death and not a precursor so really don’t worry about the loot.

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

So, Xter gave a lengthy tutorial on how he wins from thieves and you pick out some barely related detail to argue on about, neglecting all the useful and interesting stuff he wrote.

Shemsu.8721:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Sagat.3285:

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

Yes because every style can be countered but not from all professions.

Ah so now there is a “but”. I was just my way to tell you your analogy doesn’t work. And it still don’t.

What do you mean? Corruption necro counter boon ele better than any other professions the same way good Turret/Rifle Engi counter stealth with CC. Certain professions and builds will do better or worse in some situations what’s wrong with that? Are you supposed to handle perfectly everything with any build on any class?

It’s a hardcounter, what you were describing with stealth were soft counters. Soft counters =/= hardcounters

Your right soft counter =/= hard counter but it is still a counter which by your own admission then stealth has viable counters. If they were to add hard counters, would need to remove soft counters and buff non stealth ALOT to balance. However, none of that needs to be done, since stealth has counters

This is getting redundant… I’m just going to copy/past other people post at this point.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Although these are effective means of mitigating a thief’s frontloaded attacks, they can still not be considered specific counters against stealth since I could also use these techniques against other classes that do not utilize stealth.

And pre-emptive usage of these actions if you are aware that a thief is nearby is still playing by the thief’s rules and relies mostly on luck or on the thief’s mistake or lack of experience. I would wait in the shadows if I am a thief until those defensive cooldowns expire and I can happily HS spam on you after a few backstab hits afterwards. Meanwhile, you swing your weapons aimlessly here and there hoping to see a downed thief pop somewhere.

What I want to see is more access to skills like Sic-em for other classes. Skills that limit the ability to stealth or the duration of stealth or reveal stealthed players in an area but at the cost of utilities with cooldowns and such just like how people bring stunbreaks for stuns and CC.