Guild Wars 2

You have a few seconds before passive healing takes away all of your work, eh? And do you consider doing 2k damage a lot of work? For passive healing to negate 2k damage in, let’s say 3 seconds of block, it would require about 666 HP/s.

But if that’s all the damage you can do every 3 seconds, then you have bigger problems, or you are built to bunker/sustain, in which case Healing Signet is specifically designed to win the long sustain game, really.

Play better.

If you are arguing about healing signet not being OP…sorry….devs already said its too powerful.

No need to discuss it more…At least its now more clear you are biased on your profession.

Cogbyrn was stating that you seem to do excessively little damage, if passive healing can outheal it. Has nothing to do with Healing Signet in particular, Regeneration, Backpack Generator or the new Death Shroud healing would do the job, too.
Well, apart from being unable to reach that amount of HPS, really. And that’s assuming 2k damage in 3 seconds, which is a single 0,5s cast attack for me.

There’s just very little to say about these numbers. They’re not at all realistic. Direct-damage groups aim to bring down targets in ~0,5-1,0 seconds, and they do bring the damage to do that. The whole idea is to make defence roughly impossible, short of full on invulnerability.
So usually you have assist-trains of 5-6 people doing this. 6 is a good number, having one Guardian to block off projectiles or physically block off enemies, and 5 full damage bursters to burn down the marked target on command.

Cogbyrn.7283:

You have a few seconds before passive healing takes away all of your work, eh? And do you consider doing 2k damage a lot of work? For passive healing to negate 2k damage in, let’s say 3 seconds of block, it would require about 666 HP/s.

But if that’s all the damage you can do every 3 seconds, then you have bigger problems, or you are built to bunker/sustain, in which case Healing Signet is specifically designed to win the long sustain game, really.

Play better.

Or you’re a Ranger and ANet has designed your whole class around their auto-attack being their hardest hitting skills.

Longbow for example… not the most productive weapon when shooting a Warrior at mid range but still more DPS than every other weapon but 1h sword :/

Frightlight.3796:

You know what they could do is just make ferocity precision/crit damage because you need both anyway why not? makes it fair since condi classes can stack dire gear and have full damage output without sacrificing survival. If anet did this we could use power/ferocity/toughness or vitality gear and still get our dps output without have to sacrifice a survival stat.

So barbed precision doesn t exist nor shapshooter nor sigil of earth nor sigil of torment,… . I think this little text will enlighten you for thos who think dire is so OP:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Personally I don’t put all my eggs in one basket, and I go hybrid.

Anyway, not a lot of people have done math on the issue. What most people get is the tooltip, and that is misleading to a large degree. The tooltip assumes 2600 armor, and since the minimum is 1836, this means it can be up to 41.6% higher.

So, with that in mind, I’m going to make an arbitrary comparison between a guardian’s auto attack with his sword, and a Necromancer’s auto attack with their scepter. This is assuming a few things: Full PVT / MVT gear, exotic level gear, 300 in the relevant damage stat, and an appropriate rune/sigil. Off-hand weapon will not be considered. So, in full PVT/MVT we get the following bonuses:

Guardian:

Vitality: 698
Toughness: 698
Power: 1003 from gear + 165 from rune + 300 from stats = 1,468 Power
Runes of the Ogre bonus: 4% damage increase
Sigil of Force bonus: 5% damage increase

Total effective power: (916 + 1468) x 1.04 × 1.05 = 2603 power

Necromancer:
Vitality: 698
Toughness: 748
Malice: 1003 (from gear) + 300 (from stats) + 183 (from runes) + 83 (run undead bonus) = 1569
Total Malice with Sigil of Bursting: 1663

At 1663 condition damage, bleed does about 126 per tick, and poison does about 250 per tick. This means that the necromancer’s scepter auto chain will do 4 (126) x 2 + 4 (250) = 2008 damage over the course of 7 seconds (3 seconds to initialize the damage, 4 for the poison to tick). If you want to get technical, the motions to inflict all the damage is done in 3 seconds, so we’ll just go with that. Note that the auto attack also has a direct damage component (118 + 118 + 168), so the real total damage comes to 2,421 in 3(+4) seconds, factoring in crit chance and crit damage.

At 2603 power, the sword auto attack will do 764 × 2 +1,432 damage, or 2,960 damage in 2.5 seconds. Now, this isn’t assuming any crits, but if we factor in a 4% crit chance along with a 1.53 crit damage, we will get a further 2% increase, or about 3023 damage in 2.5 seconds.

This tooltip damage is also assuming 2600 armor. That is actually more than the necro has ATM (2584), but assuming we were fighting something like a GC mesmer, who would only have 1836 armor, then we would do 41.6% more damage, up to 4281 damage in 2.5 seconds. But, we’ll just go with the tooltip for now.

Ultimately, the guardian is doing more damage, doing it faster, doing it in power, and doing it while in heavily defensive gear. A lot of people constantly point at zerker gear, saying it is the only way to run a damage build. It really isn’t. I’ve been running a PVT guardian build in sPVP for a long time, and it does hit things quite kitten its own. One of my favorite things to do is just go around auto attacking people with the greatsword, since the combination of power + bulk means I’ll win the auto attack war. I’ve even played around with Valkyrie, which I recommend to many people, as it hits really kitten crits, and still has plenty of vitality for defense.

Those “builds” above are merely skeletons. The more modifiers you throw at it, the more things change up. But if you do throw modifiers on, you have to remember to do it to both classes: if you include trait abilities, you do it for both. If you include additional stats, you do it for both. If you include consumables, you do it for both.

Lalangamena.3694:

in every other normal MMO or game in the genre,
the crit rating usually varies between 5% to ~30%, when it is very hard to reach 30% to crit.
usually most of the classes being somewhere between 15% to 25% to crit.
there are skills or effects that allow the crit to be higher 50% or even 100% but these are only for a short time/next attack etc.
this allows the game to be tactically deep, when you have to chose skills and face the consequences of being interrupted/blocked etc.

the ability to easily reach 100% crit in GW2 is broken beyond repair.

now about critical damage.
in every other normal MMO, critical damage is 150% in general, but some classes have skills or traits that increase the damage to 200% ( damage * 2)
GW2 is the only MMO that you could reach higher percentage unbuffed.
150% base +30% traits +62% from gear = 232% damage before food and banner. 257% after food and banner

the damage scaling is insane.
critical should be capped on 30% + 20% fury, no more than 50%.
critical damage should be ‘balanced’ even more, it shouldn’t be above 200% unbuffed under any circumstance.

I agree with this, except this standard practice will never be introduced into gw2. Why?
Its too late, it would require a compete overhaul of reworking class skills due to some classes requiring lots of crit dmg and crit % in order to do decent dmg, and I don’t see Anet doing all that work just to rescale crit/crit dmg. Its too bad this standard practice was not introduced into the beginning of the game, we’d have a lot more interesting armor/weapon stat combos out there then :p

Grim – this standard practice exists in other games. This game is not trying to be those games. stop trying to make gw2 into what you feel it should be.

Atherakhia.4086:

Cogbyrn.7283:

You have a few seconds before passive healing takes away all of your work, eh? And do you consider doing 2k damage a lot of work? For passive healing to negate 2k damage in, let’s say 3 seconds of block, it would require about 666 HP/s.

But if that’s all the damage you can do every 3 seconds, then you have bigger problems, or you are built to bunker/sustain, in which case Healing Signet is specifically designed to win the long sustain game, really.

Play better.

Or you’re a Ranger and ANet has designed your whole class around their auto-attack being their hardest hitting skills.

Longbow for example… not the most productive weapon when shooting a Warrior at mid range but still more DPS than every other weapon but 1h sword :/

I had a Longbow/GS Ranger legitimately surprise me the other day by using Hunter’s Shot, then swapping to GS and Mauling me from Stealth without me seeing it coming. I was standing around outside of DS waiting for him to I don’t know, Longbow auto out of stealth or something like Rangers always seem to do. Instead. he Mauled me and Slice’d me for roughly 7.5-8k damage in a split second. I was legitimately impressed, and it was another case of “Why do I never see these kinds of things done by Rangers more often?”.

So I don’t know. The more I see good players do really interesting things with Rangers, the more skeptical I get about the community. I can understand that the pet’s AI is terrible. I’m sure it is, and I’m sure it has a bunch of drawbacks. But it seems like Rangers think they should be able to keep their Longbow out forever, use the knock-back when an enemy gets, close, use #2, then spam #1 (and maybe use #5) to kill somebody.

So please don’t try to appeal to my “Ranger pity” side, because it’s currently being waterboarded in an attempt to get more information about combos Rangers can actually do.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Atherakhia.4086:

Cogbyrn.7283:

You have a few seconds before passive healing takes away all of your work, eh? And do you consider doing 2k damage a lot of work? For passive healing to negate 2k damage in, let’s say 3 seconds of block, it would require about 666 HP/s.

But if that’s all the damage you can do every 3 seconds, then you have bigger problems, or you are built to bunker/sustain, in which case Healing Signet is specifically designed to win the long sustain game, really.

Play better.

Or you’re a Ranger and ANet has designed your whole class around their auto-attack being their hardest hitting skills.

Longbow for example… not the most productive weapon when shooting a Warrior at mid range but still more DPS than every other weapon but 1h sword :/

I had a Longbow/GS Ranger legitimately surprise me the other day by using Hunter’s Shot, then swapping to GS and Mauling me from Stealth without me seeing it coming. I was standing around outside of DS waiting for him to I don’t know, Longbow auto out of stealth or something like Rangers always seem to do. Instead. he Mauled me and Slice’d me for roughly 7.5-8k damage in a split second. I was legitimately impressed, and it was another case of “Why do I never see these kinds of things done by Rangers more often?”.

So I don’t know. The more I see good players do really interesting things with Rangers, the more skeptical I get about the community. I can understand that the pet’s AI is terrible. I’m sure it is, and I’m sure it has a bunch of drawbacks. But it seems like Rangers think they should be able to keep their Longbow out forever, use the knock-back when an enemy gets, close, use #2, then spam #1 (and maybe use #5) to kill somebody.

So please don’t try to appeal to my “Ranger pity” side, because it’s currently being waterboarded in an attempt to get more information about combos Rangers can actually do.

But did he actually kill you?

Atherakhia.4086:

But did he actually kill you?

The fact that he did something I hadn’t seen before didn’t mean he played the rest of the fight well. He didn’t end up killing me, but Death Shroud is pretty imbalanced in a 1v1 scenario, and I don’t know how much experience people have 1v1ing Powermancers either.

I’m not saying Rangers are fine, but I don’t pity the class.

LarzoSk.5412:

We want lower Ferocity ratio !

The second you said …“WE”…You lost all credibility. The fact that you even assume you can speak for the rest of us shows you think your special and your reasoning for what you want (IE your entire OP) are irrational in my opinion.

Particularly after there were thousands of post demanding this change and you refer to it as if they did it for other reasons. You are arguing out of an absolute knowledge of the situation, and it is not helping your expression of your view in the least.
(edit: somehow I hit quote on the wrong post at first.)