Guild Wars 2

What a condescending thread this is. How dare someone not jump on the Ranger Pity-train Express, right?

Here’s the skinny. If you concern yourself with PvP then Ranger is infact not in the worst position. I know, sounds like heresy for saying it.
The last big pvp event we saw Ranger used far more, and more succesfully, then Mesmers or Engineers.

Not saying rangers dont have problems, but this stupid dogma that Rangers are the single worst at everything and need massive buffs and unconditional love is getting ridiculous, aswell as getting in the way of any sensible discussion.

Get over yourselves, you dont have it as bad as you think you do.

runeblade.7514:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bw0uz/all_the_builds_from_eu_tol_qualifier_2/

4 Mesmers
1 Ranger

Mesmers are moaning for no reason.

Also your data is only based on one bracket from EU. There are 3 other brackets and what about NA?

Check out the NA Q2 matches, I saw 3 rangers and 1 mesmer.

Terrahero.9358:

What a condescending thread this is. How dare someone not jump on the Ranger Pity-train Express, right?

Here’s the skinny. If you concern yourself with PvP then Ranger is infact not in the worst position. I know, sounds like heresy for saying it.
The last big pvp event we saw Ranger used far more, and more succesfully, then Mesmers or Engineers.

Not saying rangers dont have problems, but this stupid dogma that Rangers are the single worst at everything and need massive buffs and unconditional love is getting ridiculous, aswell as getting in the way of any sensible discussion.

Get over yourselves, you dont have it as bad as you think you do.

Get over it, mesmer doesn’t need much if any help. Only thing they need is bug fixes, rangers is in alot worse situation and the fact u mesmer main/players have nerves to come to a ranger thread and tell us u have it worse is insulting to say the least. Rangers had no place in any mode for the past 2 years, ok except that 1 month when spirit ranger was a thing but that was shot down instantly. Mesmers on the other hand had a place in pvp, pve, wvw zerg and are the top dogs of roaming. What are the rangers good at?.. oh NOTHING.

Lifestealer.4910:

Terrahero.9358:

What a condescending thread this is. How dare someone not jump on the Ranger Pity-train Express, right?

Here’s the skinny. If you concern yourself with PvP then Ranger is infact not in the worst position. I know, sounds like heresy for saying it.
The last big pvp event we saw Ranger used far more, and more succesfully, then Mesmers or Engineers.

Not saying rangers dont have problems, but this stupid dogma that Rangers are the single worst at everything and need massive buffs and unconditional love is getting ridiculous, aswell as getting in the way of any sensible discussion.

Get over yourselves, you dont have it as bad as you think you do.

Get over it, mesmer doesn’t need much if any help. Only thing they need is bug fixes, rangers is in alot worse situation and the fact u mesmer main/players have nerves to come to a ranger thread and tell us u have it worse is insulting to say the least. Rangers had no place in any mode for the past 2 years, ok except that 1 month when spirit ranger was a thing but that was shot down instantly. Mesmers on the other hand had a place in pvp, pve, wvw zerg and are the top dogs of roaming. What are the rangers good at?.. oh NOTHING.

You’re horribly misinformed, spirit ranger was a big thing.. for a long time.
Before spirit ranger every team ran a BM ranger.

Not sure why you’re trying to turn this into a competition, or bringing up the fact that Mesmer was once a solid, rounded profession…. the simple fact of the matter is that Mesmer is in a bad place atm. We’re not moaning for no reason >.>

why are we even fighting guys. yes mesmers have reached the bottom of the bottom and are barely fun to play and rangers are right down there with us. rangers need buffs too and i get that.
we both have the right to complain, cause we lack in many aspects of the game. yes ranger can pick on a single target and so can mes, but thats not the issue. the issue is that both classes cant contribute well ingroup play.

i used to love my mes in wvw, now i havent played it in over 2 months cause yeah well i like wvw zergbusting, so i went ahead and made a necro. and yes i did try ranger and i see very similar issues there. too many traits are wasted on a pet that dies in less than 10 seconds in a zergfight, mes cant use illusions nor can they shatter.
people that say mes doesnt need help, see the mes in 1v1 and roaming. yes thats about the only thing we can do. 1v1 and thats it. in a group we lack dmg, aoe dmg and even in support we are lacking and we also dont really fit into the role of the backline ganker as thats the thieves job and they do it well!
same with the ranger no role in group play, they can take down a single target, but what about a large scale fight? war outshines their bow skills by far, they dont have much group support, nor enough aoe to really be useful. so yeah i agree ranger needs help… a lot of it! but arguing here about mes needing buffs makes like no sense at all. we both are in the same boat and both need massive rework!
so can we stop the fights over who deserves buffs and who doesnt?

Lifestealer.4910:

Terrahero.9358:

What a condescending thread this is. How dare someone not jump on the Ranger Pity-train Express, right?

Here’s the skinny. If you concern yourself with PvP then Ranger is infact not in the worst position. I know, sounds like heresy for saying it.
The last big pvp event we saw Ranger used far more, and more succesfully, then Mesmers or Engineers.

Not saying rangers dont have problems, but this stupid dogma that Rangers are the single worst at everything and need massive buffs and unconditional love is getting ridiculous, aswell as getting in the way of any sensible discussion.

Get over yourselves, you dont have it as bad as you think you do.

Get over it, mesmer doesn’t need much if any help. Only thing they need is bug fixes, rangers is in alot worse situation and the fact u mesmer main/players have nerves to come to a ranger thread and tell us u have it worse is insulting to say the least. Rangers had no place in any mode for the past 2 years, ok except that 1 month when spirit ranger was a thing but that was shot down instantly. Mesmers on the other hand had a place in pvp, pve, wvw zerg and are the top dogs of roaming. What are the rangers good at?.. oh NOTHING.

Im not argueing in favor of anything. Im just sick that everytime someone dares to suggest that Ranger is not the very worst of the worst, or brings up the times Rangers have had their spot in the limelight, they gets chastised and mocked.

Just read the opening sentence of this thread.

“Earlier a mesmer had the nerve to comment on the Ranger forums claiming that they are lagging further behind every other profession, even more so than Rangers.”

Yes… the nerve of someone to not drop down on his knees and profusely apoligize for all the hardships Rangers, and only Rangers, have to endure. How dare someone suggest Rangers arent the ones who have it the toughest.

selan.8354:

why are we even fighting guys. yes mesmers have reached the bottom of the bottom and are barely fun to play and rangers are right down there with us. rangers need buffs too and i get that.
we both have the right to complain, cause we lack in many aspects of the game. yes ranger can pick on a single target and so can mes, but thats not the issue. the issue is that both classes cant contribute well ingroup play.

i used to love my mes in wvw, now i havent played it in over 2 months cause yeah well i like wvw zergbusting, so i went ahead and made a necro. and yes i did try ranger and i see very similar issues there. too many traits are wasted on a pet that dies in less than 10 seconds in a zergfight, mes cant use illusions nor can they shatter.
people that say mes doesnt need help, see the mes in 1v1 and roaming. yes thats about the only thing we can do. 1v1 and thats it. in a group we lack dmg, aoe dmg and even in support we are lacking and we also dont really fit into the role of the backline ganker as thats the thieves job and they do it well!
same with the ranger no role in group play, they can take down a single target, but what about a large scale fight? war outshines their bow skills by far, they dont have much group support, nor enough aoe to really be useful. so yeah i agree ranger needs help… a lot of it! but arguing here about mes needing buffs makes like no sense at all. we both are in the same boat and both need massive rework!
so can we stop the fights over who deserves buffs and who doesnt?

Agreed.

From what I have played as ranger, I found them very strong in 1v1 – especially against… thieves and mesmers.

And I agree their main weakness is in larger scale fights where the pet dies and they have no decent aoe for these large fights.

But you can’t pretend ranger is bad in small scale pvp, apart from pet AI being kitten.

As has been said regarding the ToL teams – every mesmer, exact same build (incredibly minor differences) – hugely influenced to be taken because of previous ToL final and winning team.
And again what does it boil down to? Bringing portal (or gtfo) and boon strip shatters. GS+Staff because they’re the only weapons that aren’t properly kittened at the moment.
And as said, if the previous ToL finals had different team compositions (ie no mesmers) then I’d guarantee seeing barely any mesmers this time either.

Edit: For the record, I’m happy ranger is getting some nice buffs. Not sure if they’re the correct buffs, but still better than no buffs.

Why are we now comparing who has the smallest kitten? I have fought on my main mesmer many rangers in WvW. There were some who destroyed me, there were other who got destroyed. I fought many rangers with my mesmer in PvP. Same there. And even when I was using my ranger and fought mesmers it could have gone either way. I rarely play PvE, so no idea there. And the 1 or 2 utilities mesmer have made them a bit more viable in a zerg. On the other hand, I always enjoyed destroying enemies and siege from a far with my ranger longbow. It can be a huge advantage when defending a tower/keep. But hey, who defends these days^^

Over all both professions have reason to complain. But to compare who is inna worse spot than the other is just silly. You cannot read this thread from the beginning to the end, without to start laughing out loud about all the “we are so much worse” complaints.

ITT

“My class is the worst and should be prioritised over everyone else blah blah blah”

@OP, No idea why they are moaning. They want the best of both worlds and even after all their “class breaking nerfs” they can still be played well. The majority of their complaints come from bugs relating to their core skills which I can understand, but when they ask for full out buffs on skills that don’t need them its questionable and often laughable.

Even more so, when you list their strengths almost always someone replies with, “Yeah and that’s all we got” and then go on about how they need more. ><

NinjaEd.3946:

@OP, No idea why they are moaning. They want the best of both worlds and even after all their “class breaking nerfs” they can still be played well. The majority of their complaints come from bugs relating to their core skills which I can understand, but when they ask for full out buffs on skills that don’t need them its questionable and often laughable.

Even more so, when you list their strengths almost always someone replies with, “Yeah and that’s all we got” and then go on about how they need more. ><

It’s quite simple.

Wider variety of useful builds reduced to very small variety in useful builds due to inane nerfs, breaking of skills and “bug fixes”. Even these so called useful builds have very limited use in the different game modes.

From my point of view all I want to see is more useful build variety – both in weapons, utilities and traits. What is wrong with asking for this?

Lifestealer.4910:

Get over it, mesmer doesn’t need much if any help. Only thing they need is bug fixes, rangers is in alot worse situation and the fact u mesmer main/players have nerves to come to a ranger thread and tell us u have it worse is insulting to say the least.

“He started it!”

Get over it. You aren’t 5 any more, don’t fight like you are.
Rangers need buffs. They’re getting them, fine.
Mesmers are only good at 1v1, a completely meaningless and actively discouraged format of PvP. Fine, nerf it, it doesn’t matter, but can we please stop ignoring this giant load of issues we got everywhere else just because we happen to Moa you in 1v1? Where you could have won trivially by not fighting 1v1 but instead working on winning?

Mesmers are totally not broken in any way, shape, or form, unlike rangers.

I love my unbuggy iWarden.

(But seriously, both classes need help.)

Mesmer bugs are a myth. After existing forever, they are now a feature of the profession.

Also, all high-end tPvP mesmers play shatter, nerf shatter! Nerf it in PvE too, as you always do. Noone cares anymore though…

NinjaEd.3946:

@OP, No idea why they are moaning. They want the best of both worlds and even after all their “class breaking nerfs” they can still be played well. The majority of their complaints come from bugs relating to their core skills which I can understand, but when they ask for full out buffs on skills that don’t need them its questionable and often laughable.

Even more so, when you list their strengths almost always someone replies with, “Yeah and that’s all we got” and then go on about how they need more. ><

I’d like to know when someone asked for additional buffs. What the majority is asking for is fixing bugs and repair useless/broken traits. The only time I see mesmers ask for buffs is when they say nerf this and that and give us this instead, so we can have more than one build.

The mesmer prof is no where near as bad as many make it out to be. Though the most recent sword fix is pretty annoying.

The moment watchwork portal device works in all modes, the mesmer class itself will be obsolete, i know this even though i never played mesmer beyond level 23

how much their bugs can call rangers ? could even 1? or 5?
every mesmer can call 30+

Prysin.8542:

The moment watchwork portal device works in all modes, the mesmer class itself will be obsolete, i know this even though i never played mesmer beyond level 23

It’s sad when people like you think all Mesmer is capable of is porting. What’s even more sad is that there are a lot of people like you spreading these sob stories. Mesmer is not drowning in misery, it’s just the overreactions to the little stuff like the ileap update as if that was the issue with ileap.

Ask for bug fixes and trait merges, quit whining because you can’t spot the retaliation boon and mysteriously down yourself or that null field isn’t good enough. Its amusing to look at for only so long when Mesmer’s believe they aren’t viable in any part of the game.

So wait is this a thread where mesmers and rangers are trying to debate who is WORSE off?

That’s just depressing.

I mean, you guys aren’t Warriors at Launch level… :P

Just kidding, but in all honestly, it’s faint but I have hopes from the ready-ups and the next balance patch that you guys will be better off.

vincecontix.1264:

The mesmer prof is no where near as bad as many make it out to be. Though the most recent sword fix is pretty annoying.

Ofc. But then, neither are Rangers, Necros, Warriors, etc etc as far from where they need to be as people on this forum would have you think. :P

NinjaEd.3946:

Prysin.8542:

The moment watchwork portal device works in all modes, the mesmer class itself will be obsolete, i know this even though i never played mesmer beyond level 23

It’s sad when people like you think all Mesmer is capable of is porting. What’s even more sad is that there are a lot of people like you spreading these sob stories. Mesmer is not drowning in misery, it’s just the overreactions to the little stuff like the ileap update as if that was the issue with ileap.

Ask for bug fixes and trait merges, quit whining because you can’t spot the retaliation boon and mysteriously down yourself or that null field isn’t good enough. Its amusing to look at for only so long when Mesmer’s believe they aren’t viable in any part of the game.

Please explain all the viable build diversity available to us in the different game modes (stuff that actually works and is not either hard countered by something in pvp/wvw or totally replaceable by something in pve), because obviously I can’t see it.

I’m sure it was very annoying having a player moan about Mesmers on a Ranger themed thread, but why spread the misery here? You should have quarantined that nonsense on the thread you came from. Implement basic forum quarantine protocols

I can only guess that the ‘moaning’ is now part of the community strategy as if allow them to dodge the bullet when the developers wanted to change how Deceptive Evasion was going to work a few month ago.

Can some RP guild please make a theatrical adaptation of this thread a la West Side Story? A wealthy Mesmer from Divinity’s Reach meets a Ranger from Bloodtide Coast…

The thread doesnt bring anything important to the table but useless discussion about what profession (Ranger or Mesmer) is more useless than the other, even when there are truth (and exaggerate complains) in both sides and very well written arguments.

Feaduin.7603:

Can some RP guild please make a theatrical adaptation of this thread a la West Side Story? A wealthy Mesmer from Divinity’s Reach meets a Ranger from Bloodtide Coast…

Haha!

But seriously, I don’t see the need for any arguments in this thread.

Rangers need buffs in different departments – they should be getting something good, even if things need to be changed in the future.

Mesmers need bug fixes and yes some buffs (ie glamour confusion at least made playable for wvw) in different departments – whether the next patch actually brings in some of these remains to be seen…

Anton.1769:

how much their bugs can call rangers ? could even 1? or 5?
every mesmer can call 30+

ranger bugs?

Spirit actives x 5
Search and rescue
Entangle not working
Every F2 skill bugging out (since there is pretty much one unique skill pr pet, that surmounts to 38 skills, thus 38 bugs)
Pet Controls F1
Pet Controls F3
oh oh oh almost forgot…. pet traits not functioning properly in all settings(2-3 bugs there)
Then there was Shortbow 3 bugging out and sending you in random directions
GS 3 not moving you (rare one)
LB 3
LB 2 animation getting stuck, preventing other attacks being used unless you swap weapons

There are more, i just cant remember all of em.

All I can see in this post is a mesmer group mad because they’re losing their xp nodes with the next ranger patch. And most of you agree that thief > mesmer.
Well, guess what, rangers CAN’T do a thing against thieves either. The only way we can outplay a thief is if he is the worst thief ever. But, guess again what, we’re outplayed by MESMERS and every other class in the game.

Facts:
1) You have a viable build, more or less, but still you can do good. If you can’t win, you ALWAYS can kite even outnumbered and survive if you play your cards right. Rangers can’t. We have on LB 1 skill for stealth (worthless), on SB skill 3 (a joke for disengage), torch-axe-horn (escape? I don’t think so). We have 2 skills to disengange, 3 on GS which doesn’t work if your enemy is following just you (he’ll get you, sooner or later) and “no target, 2, spin, 2” manouver on sword wich means you have to use sword and you have to be good doing that. And even so, usually you need to do one more spin and play a right LR with another spin more. Yeah, that easy to scape =)

2) Rangers have 0 builds beside sPvP spirit wich is not what most people think of or want from a ranger (a DPS class acting as a low cond dealer and tank home holder… what?)

3) Rangers are a DPS “all in” class. We can’t disengage, we need to kill the enemy or die. Hey if you ask me, I would prefer survivability but at least ArNt is now giving us some dps to at least have a chance.

Lets be clear. If you want to ask for stuff, ask for ArNt to fix the bugs and to balance thieves. The word ranger shouldn’t be on those topics.

Someday.3650:

All I can see in this post is a mesmer group mad because they’re losing their xp nodes with the next ranger patch. And most of you agree that thiefs > mesmers.
Well, guess what, rangers CAN’T do a thing against thiefs either. The only way we can outplay a thief is if he is the worst thief ever. But, guess again what, we’re outplayed by MESMERS and every other class in the game.

Facts:
1) You have a viable build, more or less, but still you can do good. If you can’t win, you ALWAYS can kite even outnumbered and survive if you play your cards right. Rangers can’t. We have on LB 1 skill for stealth (worthless), on SB skill 3 (a joke for disengage), torch-axe-horn (escape? I don’t think so). We have 2 skills to disengange, 3 on GS which doesn’t work if your enemy is following just you (he’ll get you, sooner or later) and “no target, 2, spin, 2” manouver on sword wich means you have to use sword and you have to be good doing that. And even so, usually you need to do one more spin and play a right LR with another spin more. Yeah, that easy to scape =)

2) Rangers have 0 builds beside sPvP spirit wich is not what most people think of or want from a ranger (a DPS class acting as a low cond dealer and tank home holder… what?)

3) Rangers are a DPS “all in” class. We can’t disengage, we need to kill the enemy or die. Hey if you ask me, I would prefer survivability but at least ArNt is now giving us some of dps to at least have a chance.

Lets be clear. If you want to ask for stuff, ask for ArNt to fix the bugs and to balance thieves. The word ranger shouldn’t be on those topics.

What on Earth? Most comments from mesmers I can see are supportive about ranger buffs. At least I certainly am.

I found GS+Sw/D and a certain trait setup (can’t remember now – I deleted my ranger because I’m not keen on having alts) to be very good vs thieves (and mesmers) as well as escaping. I found it incredibly easy to engage and disengage with that weapon set and build. Biggest weakness I found was mediocre burst damage, even with decent use of a pet. Granted the lack of range (lol) damage with that build makes it a bit of a gimmick! Still found it good and fun though.

Anyway that’s beside the point – the point is can we stop bickering at each other. Can ranger mains accept that mesmers do need fixes and buffs and stop playing the victims, as if because you think ranger is the worst means nobody else has the right to ask for buffs and bug fixes? Can some mesmers be patient for the Skill Bar notes before criticising ranger buffs?

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

The mesmer prof is no where near as bad as many make it out to be. Though the most recent sword fix is pretty annoying.

Ofc. But then, neither are Rangers, Necros, Warriors, etc etc as far from where they need to be as people on this forum would have you think. :P

Let me rephrase that, mesmers a perfectly viable prof atm across most areas of the game.

Someday.3650:

All I can see in this post is a mesmer group mad because they’re losing their xp nodes with the next ranger patch. And most of you agree that thief > mesmer.
Well, guess what, rangers CAN’T do a thing against thieves either. The only way we can outplay a thief is if he is the worst thief ever. But, guess again what, we’re outplayed by MESMERS and every other class in the game.

Facts:
1) You have a viable build, more or less, but still you can do good. If you can’t win, you ALWAYS can kite even outnumbered and survive if you play your cards right. Rangers can’t. We have on LB 1 skill for stealth (worthless), on SB skill 3 (a joke for disengage), torch-axe-horn (escape? I don’t think so). We have 2 skills to disengange, 3 on GS which doesn’t work if your enemy is following just you (he’ll get you, sooner or later) and “no target, 2, spin, 2” manouver on sword wich means you have to use sword and you have to be good doing that. And even so, usually you need to do one more spin and play a right LR with another spin more. Yeah, that easy to scape =)

2) Rangers have 0 builds beside sPvP spirit wich is not what most people think of or want from a ranger (a DPS class acting as a low cond dealer and tank home holder… what?)

3) Rangers are a DPS “all in” class. We can’t disengage, we need to kill the enemy or die. Hey if you ask me, I would prefer survivability but at least ArNt is now giving us some dps to at least have a chance.

Lets be clear. If you want to ask for stuff, ask for ArNt to fix the bugs and to balance thieves. The word ranger shouldn’t be on those topics.

Dunno which game you are playing, but i have little issues disengaging even while in full glassbow build. Seriously, ranger has probably the easiest time of all dealing with thieves, just gotta know how they play and what to expect.

Mesmers are the third easiest things to kill after warriors and necromancers. They got so poor healing, that if they do not portal away or stealth away, they wipe pretty fast. Distortion can be nasty to deal with, especially with reflect trait, but short of that – no worries.

Prysin.8542:

Anton.1769:

how much their bugs can call rangers ? could even 1? or 5?
every mesmer can call 30+

ranger bugs?

Spirit actives x 5
Search and rescue
Entangle not working
Every F2 skill bugging out (since there is pretty much one unique skill pr pet, that surmounts to 38 skills, thus 38 bugs)
Pet Controls F1
Pet Controls F3
oh oh oh almost forgot…. pet traits not functioning properly in all settings(2-3 bugs there)
Then there was Shortbow 3 bugging out and sending you in random directions
GS 3 not moving you (rare one)
LB 3
LB 2 animation getting stuck, preventing other attacks being used unless you swap weapons

There are more, i just cant remember all of em.

If we’re going to do this…

Band-aid “Bugs” (Issues never addressed or band-aids never removed/fixed):
Temporal Curtain (not the ICD)
Shatter ICD
Unable to spawn clones while holding bundle, transformed, otherwise unable to use weapon skills (used to spawn weaponless Scepter clones). Decoy, Mirror Images, and Deceptive Evasion will all be wasted when used. – x3
Chaos Armor lasts 5 seconds (no matter what) and, because of ICD nerf, is the worst aura in a non-1v1 scenario.

Skill Bugs:
Phantasms don’t attack when spawned, most notable with Warden, accounts for all Phantasms – x10
Mage can’t aim
Sword3 doesn’t know how to walk.
Arcane Thievery gets LoS fail when LoS is clearly available.
Rubberbanded Blinks (Blink, Phase Retreat, Swap) – x3
Underwater Phantasms can run on land – have no land attack – x2
Underwater Clones can run on land – have no land attack – x2
Terrestrial Phantasms can run into water – have no water attack – x8
Terrestrial Clones can run into water – have no water attack – x4
Distortion can take upwards of 4 seconds for the Illusion to die even though they interrupted their action – leaves both Illusion and Mesmer vulnerable for no reason.
Phantasmal Warden, untraited, destroys almost all projectiles.
Temporal Curtain traited has little to no vertical axis, making it only usable when placed directly on target or ally unless target actually shoots from hands. If placed on ally, does not guarantee reflect.

General Problems:
Mimic has a 25s cooldown to let us shoot an auto attack. Can “absorb” ridiculous shots like Kill Shot… if we can survive the hit (not going to happen unless we’re fighting a VPT Warrior).
Invulnerability and Reflect do not allow absorbtion of shots. – x2
Mimic requires stability to absorb cc’ing projectiles.
Disenchanter spawns close to target (within melee range, in most cases)
Defender spawns close to Mesmer (within melee range, in most cases)
Scepter auto attack chain has ridiculous aftercast delays in conjunction with slow overall strike speed (2s for chain cast time isn’t reflected in actual gameplay)
Portal and Veil exist. – x2
Illusion of Life, outside of PvP, has little to no use other than to reposition a dead body.
Casting sword3 causes all (previous and new) sword3 clones to leap at your target, regardless of their initial targets.

Total bugs: Before going too deep into traits (only touched Warden traiting) 52

Note: Most of these bugs directly affect and are harmful to Mesmer growth, diversity, and playstyle. Some are just quirky and only apply in niche scenario’s (underwater/terrestrial).

Want me to continue with traits?

vincecontix.1264:

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

The mesmer prof is no where near as bad as many make it out to be. Though the most recent sword fix is pretty annoying.

Ofc. But then, neither are Rangers, Necros, Warriors, etc etc as far from where they need to be as people on this forum would have you think. :P

Let me rephrase that, mesmers a perfectly viable prof atm across most areas of the game.

How many different builds, trait choices, weapon selection – stuff that actually works and is not either hard countered by something in pvp/wvw or always better to replace by something else in pve? Or I suppose you could say every class is perfectly useable across most areas of the game, even necros in pve and rangers in large scale wvw, just some better than others.

I count shatter (fixed weapon set, just over that line of “viability”) in pvp, and PU (power/condi/hybrid) in wvw roaming.

For example, glamour confusion really needs to be restored as a build – given confusion is nerfed anyway and most people run -condi duration food in wvw anyway. Restoring this build would be a good thing for diversity and give people who want that aoe ability on a mesmer that opportunity.

That’s just one example – another could be making sword/focus useable again – at the moment it is totally not worth using compared to other choices.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2byvzs/all_the_builds_from_na_tol_qualifier_2/

1 mesmer NA ToL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bw0uz/all_the_builds_from_eu_tol_qualifier_2/

Several (4) Mesmers in EU ToL

Assorted fun facts
EU: Every team has a Guardian; Every team has a Warrior; Every team has a Thief
NA: Warrior is used 8 times out of 6 teams (Found in all but one team)
EU: 30 people → 1 Ranger, 1 Necro =o
NA: Engie used in 3/6 teams; Necro used in 3/6 teams
EU: Every team has an Ele or Engi

Lots of other interesting things, just pulled a few

I want to be sure I understand this thread.

this is what I’m taking away from it:

My profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession.

Did I get that right.

Brega.6920:

I want to be sure I understand this thread.

this is what I’m taking away from it:

My profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession.

Did I get that right.

Bullseye.

What a waste of time and energy.
Ranger fixes won’t help Mesmer problems, Mesmer fixes won’t help Ranger problems.
Both classes need fixing, period. Stop acting like Divas.

Brega.6920:

I want to be sure I understand this thread.

this is what I’m taking away from it:

My profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession.

Did I get that right.

Actually no – there are a fair number of different posts in support of bug fixes and buffs for both, and some good posts on what needs to be achieved and what the weaknesses are.

Some people like to play the victim – mostly rangers from what I can see – and can’t see other classes can be deserving of buffs and bug fixes.

I am fully in support of fixes and buffs for both.

Mesmers are in a bad position when it comes to kittened up skills/traits and build variety – heaven forbid any mesmer dares to ask for buffs/fixes to bring back some variety in builds and weapon use – it seems some people don’t like this to be discussed. It’s not as if a warrior asking for healing signet to do 5k hp/s or something crazy…

This thread represents what I dislike about rangers. Their forum is so toxic. And now here, they can’t even tolerate another class complaining about its own problems. Please keep it in the ranger forum.

Curunen.8729:

Mesmers are in a bad position when it comes to kittened up skills/traits and build variety – heaven forbid any mesmer dares to ask for buffs/fixes to bring back some variety in builds and weapon use – it seems some people don’t like this to be discussed. It’s not as if a warrior asking for healing signet to do 5k hp/s or something crazy…

Talking about Healing Signet, I actually have to say thank you to Anet for nerfing the hp/s on it. It brings it more inline with other heals and makes it less easy to just afk attack as a Warrior (I have a Warrior level 80 who, before the nerf, was able to ignore stuff for a lot longer than currently, of course since I play Mesmer, ignoring stuff isn’t my specialty).

However, I thought about this and I came up confused. There are two sides to the coin.

Side 1: Signet of the Ether heals every 3 seconds.
Because it heals every 3 seconds, it should heal for more because there’s a longer interval. While you do have more time to get 3 Illusions out/replace the ones that die, you also can’t entirely control your cooldowns so getting 3 up isn’t always viable. In addition to that, it does require more than just not being used to gain effectiveness, therefore it should heal more per second than Healing Signet.
Let’s pretend, for a moment, that the signet dealt damage instead. If the Warrior Signet dealt 390 damage every second and the Mesmer Signet dealt 1000 damage every three seconds IF 3 Illusions are up, would that really be “fair”? (I’ll go into the reasons why it’s not, but think about it.)
Reason 1: SotE should heal more because it takes more effort.
Reason 2: SotE should heal more because it has a longer interval.

Side 2: Warriors have a lot more health.
Because of this, Warriors actually have a weaker heal, percentage-wise, than Mesmers. It’s only fair that they get more healing per second because it makes up for the health difference. In addition to that, Warriors are made to have access to more direct damage and therefore having easier access to more direct healing goes inline with that.
Reason 1: SoH should heal more because Warriors have a bigger health pool to heal.
Reason 2: SoH should heal more because it fits more inline with how the Warrior exists (not in an RP idea, but in gameplay).

However, looking at the coin as a whole:
The health difference isn’t that significant in most types of play, and if it is, then it’s a fundamental flaw since the number gap in terms of defense in this game is supposed to be inline with mechanics, which Mesmer is sorely lacking (defensive mechanics, unless we play PU, but PU with SotE? Really?). In fact, the difference in health pools is 3290 health, before traits and gear (although Warriors can easily slot in 7% Pow→Vit).

1000 HP/3S is:
1.8% HP/S – Warrior
2.2% HP/S – Mesmer

The additional 56_ hp/s effectively translates into:
0.3% HP/S.

Bringing the current Warrior HP/S to:
2.1% HP/S (With SoH)

There is a difference of 0.09% (truncated) differenciating these two HP/S.

So, the current HP/S is actually roughly the same HP/S, assuming a Mesmer always has 3 Illusions out. Of course, if the Mesmer had it up 100 of the time, it would be ridiculous with all our evades and slippery, but at the same time, it takes a lot of effort to keep up with someone else, and it’s a skill that we slot to USE. Leaving it up is simply luxury most of the time.

The problem, I think, lies in the fact that the Warrior Signet is punishes players for using it, whereas the Mesmer Signet punishes players for not using it (unless they have 3 Phantasms out that won’t die… which typically involves using the Signet at least once).

There is very little tradeoff for either of these Signets (when slotted, they are slotted for one thing and one thing only) and they are BOTH harmful.

vincecontix.1264:

Let me rephrase that, mesmers a perfectly viable prof atm across most areas of the game.

So is everyone else. Well, assuming that we use the same loose definition of “perfectly viable” you do, but I genuinely agree with that. Despite all the moaning, overall the balance issues in GW2 are surprisingly small compared to other MMOs I’ve played in the past… 18 years.

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

Lifestealer.4910:

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

So did you do any PvP with/against Mesmers?
Because I think no one argued anything but that we struggle in WvW/PvP/PvE. Duelling != PvP. Well, in the literal sense it is ofc player-versus-player, but the game doesn’t support it so its an entirely meaningless way of doing combat.

Lifestealer.4910:

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

Did you try putting more than one condition on the Mesmer, or using any AOE spell whatsoever. Or standing on terrain slightly higher then what the Mesmer is on so none of his shatters or leaps can reach you. Needz moar countaplay.

Neptune.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

Did you try putting more than one condition on the Mesmer, or using any AOE spell whatsoever. Or standing on terrain slightly higher then what the Mesmer is on so none of his shatters or leaps can reach you. Needz moar countaplay.

i did in fact put conditions but most mesmers in duel server traits for condi clears and it was on open field for most of the duels so its fair.

Lifestealer.4910:

Neptune.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

Did you try putting more than one condition on the Mesmer, or using any AOE spell whatsoever. Or standing on terrain slightly higher then what the Mesmer is on so none of his shatters or leaps can reach you. Needz moar countaplay.

i did in fact put conditions but most mesmers in duel server traits for condi clears and it was on open field for most of the duels so its fair.

Show me this artificially made up situation working in favour of the mesmer (avoiding his major bugs) in any real PvP/WvW situation. Even in PvE this won’t happen, and there you can most of the time choose where things will happen.

So what you say is, the mesmer is fine, as long as you manage to somehow create an artificial environment of bug-limited space…

Lifestealer.4910:

Neptune.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.

You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.

Did you try putting more than one condition on the Mesmer, or using any AOE spell whatsoever. Or standing on terrain slightly higher then what the Mesmer is on so none of his shatters or leaps can reach you. Needz moar countaplay.

i did in fact put conditions but most mesmers in duel server traits for condi clears and it was on open field for most of the duels so its fair.

Ahh in that case you misunderstand why Mesmers are moaning. We are not viable in any supported game mode (Dueling is not a supported game mode in which the devs balance around). Nobody is denying that a Mesmer has a couple of very strong 1v1 builds, but they are not viable anywhere outside of 1v1’s and roaming. (Don’t mention Veil and Portal, this thread has already done enough circles)

Brega.6920:

I want to be sure I understand this thread.

this is what I’m taking away from it:

My profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession.

Did I get that right.

Yep, exactly this is happening in this thread. There are some reasoned complaints and originally it was only about mesmers. But soon rangers hopped on and the battle for the smallest whatever began.

The simple fact of the matter is, Rangers have sucked since beta – that’s 2 years of no buffs, no nice additions to the profession and pure neglect.

Mesmers still don’t actually suck like Rangers do, they just have a lot of problems, and these problems have only existed for a limited number of months.

The CDI polling thread a few months ago for “which profession is most in need of help?” – Rangers topped the thread by a huge margin. Mesmers weren’t even in the top 3.

Heretofor, Rangers are worse off. Not sure how Mesmers think they can be put in the same boat as Rangers when these facts are so clear. And yes, this thread has become a “who is worse off than who” thread. Even if Mesmers were to become as sucky as Rangers, we have been in this situation far, far longer.

Bryzy.2719:

The CDI polling thread a few months ago for “which profession is most in need of help?” – Rangers topped the thread by a huge margin. Mesmers weren’t even in the top 3.

… Which may have something to do with the fact there are probably 10x rangers over mesmers just because of unicorn bow.

Mesmer problems have existed since launch. The only reason a Ranger is slightly worse off is because he cannot blow up his worthless pet.