Guild Wars 2

I’m talking about the elementalist before all the nerfs. The original RTL, no ICD on Cleansing water etc..
This does not include bug fixes like Renewal + mist form combo.
So whats your opinion about this?

I think it would still get melted by hambow warriors.
Back in the ele meta, there wasn’t any CC heavy build.

Though, in the current meta, they could be a valid alternative to the omni-present thief.

If you’re talking triple cantrip D/D with 0 10 0 30 30, the build is already impossible as Cleansing Wave was moved into Master to compete with Soothing Disruption and Soothing Wave’s mechanics were changed to proc only on critical hit instead of on attuning to water. Even with Cleansing Water, these changes alone puts most of the condition cleanse into Cantrips rather than on attuning to Water – which makes triple cantrip ironically even more essential.

If you’re talking reverting all the nerfs to Water Magic and just bugfixes, sure. D/D might even come back as a proper bruiser; even though Stunbreak was removed from Cleansing Fire and Lightning Flash.

In this instance, I could well imagine the following matchups to be as follows:

• Hambow Warrior, or any setup bar X/Sword LB Warrior – Bad matchup. The buffs to condition cleanse would make Pin Down and X/Sword condi warrior less threatening, but the removal of stunbreaks from LF and CF makes stunlock a real danger.
• Necromancer (Condi): Makes matchup more even. The real danger would be getting Signet of Spite’d and/or Tainted Shackles from the Necro. MM Necro would still put D/D in the dumpster though. Death Nova Poison along with all the other Minion spells makes facing one in Melee a dangerous prospect with such low EHP.
• Spirit Ranger: Matchup is more even. Significant pressure can no longer be applied just with autoattacks from Shortbow if Elementalist closes. Even so, taking the Ranger down is going to be an uphill slog – just like it is with other classes.
• Condi Engi (Bomb/Nade): Confusion from Bomb Kit and Poison and Chill from Grenade Kit is a significant threat to Elementalist, to say nothing of the immense condition diversity to cover the Burning pressure from Incendiary Powder. That said, Elementalist should have just enough condition clear to be able to put Condi under significant danger. Might come down to Elites or a crucial Fire Grab. Hard matchup for Elementalist even so, but not insurmountable.
• Thief: Puts Elementalist in the dumpster. Still.
• Guardian (Bunker): outcome largely unchanged: D/D should eventually be able to get Bunker Guardian down if Ele hits the skillshots. Duel would definitely last long enough that reinforcements arrive to change the outcome though.
• Mesmer: Matchups unchanged for Shatter. For PU Mesmer, I think advantage goes to PU.
• Other Elementalists (Fresh Air S/x): Fresh Air Elementalist has the advantage in this case, both in range and in burst damage output. With Elementalist’s low EHP, it’ll still come down to skillshots, but with S/x having faster, more reliable burst, I think advantage goes the the Scepter ele.

sorrow.2364:

I think it would still get melted by hambow warriors.
Back in the ele meta, there wasn’t any CC heavy build.

Though, in the current meta, they could be a valid alternative to the omni-present thief.

Interesting opinion. So you mean people hadn’t discovered the strong builds that exist today, back then. Instead they saw the solution to nerf the elementalist to the ground.

Eviscera.9703:

Interesting opinion. So you mean people hadn’t discovered the strong builds that exist today, back then. Instead they saw the solution to nerf the elementalist to the ground.

Back in that meta, elementalists were OP. No doubt.
Point is that Necromancers were non-existent, as much as Warriors, who didn’t yet recived buff to survivability. And if I’m not wrong, neither beastmaster, trapper or spirit rangers were a thing. Neither S/D thief existed.

Pretty much anything that melted elementalists did not exist yet. Now they exist, so do the nerfs to elementalist.

8 profession 5 roles a old /d ele with no nerfs just bug fixes wouldn’t be that bad off in todays meta and wouldn’t be seen as gimping your team if you had to slot one as a replacement class. In essence it would be viable.

I still don’t think it would be one of the number 1 choices for ideal group comp but it wouldn’t be a terrible choice either like now.

Some of the builds present now weren’t possible back then or where terrible then for other classes.

The devs wanted to bring the other classes up. The players wanted Ele nerfed They went with nerf Ele. You can look it up on the Old SOTG on gw2curse on twitch it was the 3rd SOTG that it came up from Top sPvPers and the 4th SOTG they annouced the nerfs.

I spend alot of time reading on this game and they said before they buffed warrior and people complained that they where terrible that they have to be cautious. The warrior almost shipped according to Chap somewhat similar to what it is now. They don’t want to give Necro healing in DS because they said it use to be like that and it was unkillable which is why they haven’t given necro healing in DS.

oZii.2864:

8 profession 5 roles a old /d ele with no nerfs just bug fixes wouldn’t be that bad off in todays meta and wouldn’t be seen as gimping your team if you had to slot one as a replacement class. In essence it would be viable.

I still don’t think it would be one of the number 1 choices for ideal group comp but it wouldn’t be a terrible choice either like now.

Some of the builds present now weren’t possible back then or where terrible then for other classes.

The devs wanted to bring the other classes up. The players wanted Ele nerfed They went with nerf Ele. You can look it up on the Old SOTG on gw2curse on twitch it was the 3rd SOTG that it came up from Top sPvPers and the 4th SOTG they annouced the nerfs.

I spend alot of time reading on this game and they said before they buffed warrior and people complained that they where terrible that they have to be cautious. The warrior almost shipped according to Chap somewhat similar to what it is now. They don’t want to give Necro healing in DS because they said it use to be like that and it was unkillable which is why they haven’t given necro healing in DS.

So much this. I think the community gives the devs less credit than they are due, because some of their predictions regarding their changes have been remarkably prescient despite community attitudes. Then again, some of their changes have also been poorly thought out.

I think the key take away from the patch changes of late is that they have been coming too slowly. Changes that should be bug fixes are being coupled to feature patches, like Ranger nature spirit regen; as are number tweaks like the 8% Healing Signet nerf. The developers have shown that they are can be right, it’s just fixing their mistakes takes so long.

I run something similar to the old D/D builds. Of course my gear is 100% custom, but the only class I lose to on any basis is a dang well played necro with boon corrupt and signet of spite.

What can you do about that? Nothin.

Take it for what you will.

Of course eles never ‘lose’ in WvW; they are always turtling around their gates with mist form -_-;

ens.9854:

Of course eles never ‘lose’ in WvW; they are always turtling around their gates with mist form -_-;

Yeah some sure do. I hope that gets nerfed.

I sure don’t. I’m a dueler and a roamer. I usually have no towers to hide in.

Warriors counter dps (valks/zerker) eles due largely to destruction of the empowered, coupled with eles limited attack mitigation.

As builds emerge on other classes that shut out warriors (which is inevitable), and provided cleansing water is patched, we could see a lot more play from x/D bruiser eles.

I still play a 0/10/0/30/30 cantrip D/D slightly modified to adapt to the nerfs/balance changes. It’s all right and has fairly good mobility and condition cleansing skill – actually about on par with warrior – but you will never kill anything unless you build full on glass cannon, and if you go the other route and build bunker style you’ll still get splatted by condition builds and skilled burst damage.

Classic D/D boon duration builds also get wrecked HARD by confusion (because they’re action-intense) which is more prevalent now, and boon conversion/stealing/removal. It’s also got very limited burst options: Fire Grab and Churning Earth, both of which are telegraphed and easy to avoid.

It’s a phenomenal group support class and I have loads of fun playing it, but definitely nowhere near as competitive or meta-advantaged as it once was.

Also completely impossible in SPvP due to nerfed/unavailability of boon duration runes.

Marquis.7412:

I still play a 0/10/0/30/30 cantrip D/D slightly modified to adapt to the nerfs/balance changes. It’s all right and has fairly good mobility and condition cleansing skill – actually about on par with warrior – but you will never kill anything unless you build full on glass cannon, and if you go the other route and build bunker style you’ll still get splatted by condition builds and skilled burst damage.

Classic D/D boon duration builds also get wrecked HARD by confusion (because they’re action-intense) which is more prevalent now, and boon conversion/stealing/removal. It’s also got very limited burst options: Fire Grab and Churning Earth, both of which are telegraphed and easy to avoid.

It’s a phenomenal group support class and I have loads of fun playing it, but definitely nowhere near as competitive or meta-advantaged as it once was.

Also completely impossible in SPvP due to nerfed/unavailability of boon duration runes.

I wish our classic D/D or S/D would still be viable in spvp. Our role would be something like roaming support/dmg/small bunker. But thiefs and engis outshine us in every level for that role.