Guild Wars 2

I think that Polymorph Moa skill is unbalanced and needs to be fixed, and I explain why I do so.

1. In 99% of the times it is cast it is an instant “I win” skill, since it lasts for 10 seconds and is followed with dazes, immobilizes, etc. There should NOT be an “I win” skill. Never.
Make the duration shorter, give the moa stability and condition immunity, so at least it could run away and have some chance to fight back.

2. 1200 range: It should be a 200 range max. Someone can cast it to you from above a tower, when you fight his friend at ground, without even realizing he was there.

3. It can be casted while the mesmer is in stealth. You cannot dodge a skill that you do not have an indication that is going to be used.

4. It has no counter, since while in moa form you have no utility skills. It should be stun breakable.
The thief’s elite skill “Basilisk Venom” has a duration of1.5 second and was fixed to be stun breakable, why the moa skill which has a duration of 10 seconds cannot?

I actually wouldn’t mind moa bird morph if it functioned more like basilisk venom somehow. I still don’t understand why the running distance on the moa was nerfed when the skill already allowed the mesmer to drop out of combat if all else fails. This skill shouldn’t even exist because excess control is frankly overpowered and this skill is the apex of taking control away from your opponents.

Being combined with stealth, asuras, and while hiding amongst other allies only adds to the frustration that is this skill. Most of it’s users seem to agree since it’s usage is followed with laughs, dancing, and other taunts. This is one of the few skills in the game that I can say with confidence that actually shouldn’t exist and should be removed from the game.

I actually second a range nerf and forcing it’s user out of stealth nerf limiting it’s usage to pve and desperate pvp scenarios. Being able to put an opponent out of commission for 10 seconds needs to come with some hefty risks. I think giving the moa immunities is a tad over the top kanenas even if everything should be in the favor of the player on the receiving end of this skill.

This entire skill just feels like a joke the developers came up with at the expense of the players.

although i play warrior mainly and i firmly believe that polymorph moa is well balanced, not broken, but working as intended.

1. In 99% of the times it is cast it is an instant “I win” skill, since it lasts for 10 seconds and is followed with dazes, immobilizes, etc. There should NOT be an “I win” skill. Never.
Make the duration shorter, give the moa stability and condition immunity, so at least it could run away and have some chance to fight back.

duration 10 seconds is acceptable, given the long activation time and recharge time.

this skill is never “i win” anyway. especially in 1 vs 1 situations.
against certain professions maybe but for my warrior the only times i died from it is when they have more people.

10 seconds duration is very short, and you can fight back, using the moa skills. or run away as well.

condition immunity is totally uncalled for. you were forcefully morphed into a bird, to my knowledge, moa birds are not immune to conditions.

2. 1200 range: It should be a 200 range max. Someone can cast it to you from above a tower, when you fight his friend at ground, without even realizing he was there.

200 range? this is a mesmer spell, 1,200 range is acceptable. 200 melee range is ridiculous.

3. It can be casted while the mesmer is in stealth. You cannot dodge a skill that you do not have an indication that is going to be used.

good combination. this is working as intended. some things are not meant to have counters.

4. It has no counter, since while in moa form you have no utility skills. It should be stun breakable.

nope. you got turned into a bird. accept that for 10 seconds and move on.
you realize if you have aegis you can block the moa morph.
and if the mesmer is blind, the moa morph will miss.

The thief’s elite skill “Basilisk Venom” has a duration of1.5 second and was fixed to be stun breakable, why the moa skill which has a duration of 10 seconds cannot?

because mesmers are not thieves, and thieves are not mesmers.

and lastly, you must be a necro minion master player.
moa moprh is balanced, not broken.

would you kindly please accept it and move on?
thank you.

lol, Deimos Tel Arin, man you should try harder next time!

Sarcasm and trolling is so obvious with this one !

Kanenas.4906:

lol, Deimos Tel Arin, man you should try harder next time!

Sarcasm and trolling is so obvious with this one !

what are you talking about?
i am merely voicing out my opinions regarding what you wrote.

It’s probably the weirdest skill in the game, especially for WvW. It’s both OP and pointless at the same time. I’d be interested to hear Anet’s original reasoning for this skill. I always imagined it was to provide some sort of override ability to deal with tanky builds in sPvP or to allow the Mesmer to take control when outnumbered. Sure you could use it to cheese a 1v1, but why are you even 1v1ing if your goal is to not actually fight? Although in 1v1s it’s probably not even worth taking it for the cheese unless your opponent has a tiny amount of survivability.

I use it often in WvW for specific functions:

- Quickly and efficiently cleansing towers/keeps of Thieves and Mesmers.
- Overwriting other transformations (Plague form, Tornado)
- Reducing enemy numbers when outnumbered, usually specifically targeting an enemy who is most likely to cause problems (condi necro, Guardian).
- Stealthing into zergs, turning an enemy Commander into a Moa and then leaving, just because I can.

I suppose by slotting Moa you’re already gimping yourself a little by not using Timewarp or Mass invis which provide far more reliable functionality.

It’s a funny skill and can be really entertaining to use, but I wouldn’t exactly be upset if it suddenly vanished and was replaced with something else

I’m sadly with Deimos on this one… I play a condi bunker thief, and when i get turned into a Moa I personally feel insulted. They think they can just pull that crap? “oh i’m losing, better turn this chump into a Moa” Well when i get turned into a Moa i think, “kitten it, ima Moa now, lets kick some kittening kitten ”

I think the skill is ridiculously underpowered. Why?

First, it hits a single target. I fail to see the point, unless we’re facing 50 Mesmers against 50 other people. Taking 4-5 people out of an enemy team hardly matters, considering we could have 20-25 people having 10 seconds of quickness instead.

Second, it has a very lengthy CD. For a very similar CD, again, I could get not only a 5-player 10 seconds Quickness, I would also get a wide-area combo field.

Third, it gives people the ability to run away rather efficiently. So not only do I fail to make a dent in the enemy team, I also allow that person to simply run away from the incoming damage. Well… done.

Really, what’s the point of this skill? Yes, it’s nice in 1v1 PvP, but 1v1 PvP isn’t supported by the game (or even the genre), so what does it matter?

I would say make it shorter-range, 600 or so, but make it AoE. 180 or so radius, 5 targets cap.

Kanenas.4906:

I think that Polymorph Moa skill is unbalanced and needs to be fixed, and I explain why I do so.

1. In 99% of the times it is cast it is an instant “I win” skill, since it lasts for 10 seconds and is followed with dazes, immobilizes, etc. There should NOT be an “I win” skill. Never.
Make the duration shorter, give the moa stability and condition immunity, so at least it could run away and have some chance to fight back.

2. 1200 range: It should be a 200 range max. Someone can cast it to you from above a tower, when you fight his friend at ground, without even realizing he was there.

3. It can be casted while the mesmer is in stealth. You cannot dodge a skill that you do not have an indication that is going to be used.

4. It has no counter, since while in moa form you have no utility skills. It should be stun breakable.
The thief’s elite skill “Basilisk Venom” has a duration of1.5 second and was fixed to be stun breakable, why the moa skill which has a duration of 10 seconds cannot?

1. Instant I Win button? Wut. If you’re morphed, you can still dodge AND got the evade/runaway/whatever skill. That’s plenty of opportunity to get some distance. Condition immunity and stability would literally be buffing the enemy. Why would any skill do that?

2. The range is fine – why? Cause you need LoS. More distance also means more LoS problems. Also, Mesmer isn’t a melee class. The long cast time + very obvious animation + 200 range would make the skill impossible to use, thinking of all the CC coming from melee classes these days. Mesmer doesn’t have that much stability, you know. Just because someone trolled you (why would you even engage a 1v1 near a keep while other enemies are watching you) doesn’t mean the skill needs to be ruined for everyone.

3. Same for backstab. It can be blocked, it can be evaded. You can’t expect the Mesmer to do nothing while in stealth. If you’re fighting a thief, you are also expecting an attack and preparing for that. Count how long the enemy is stealthed, dodge/block.

4. It can be blocked, it can be evaded. It’s a single target spell that will go on a full three minute cooldown if it misses (high risk/reward for the Mesmer). Talking about Basilisk venom, you’re comparing Moa to a skill which has 45 seconds cooldown and can be traited to have an even shorter one (36 seconds). Of course the venom duration isn’t that long. And why would Moa Morph be stun breakable? It isn’t a stun. As I said, you can still run away or dodge. Give me a 36 second cooldown on Moa and we’ll talk again lol.

So you consider what practically equals to a 10 second unbreakable daze a balanced skill?

And no you cannot run. A mesmer will immobilize or daze you after the polymorph.

Also if backstab had a 1200 range you could compare the 2 skills.

Oh moa is awesome, every time i get turned into moa its like a minigame! Peck the mesmer to death!

Kanenas.4906:

So you consider what practically equals to a 10 second unbreakable daze a balanced skill?

And no you cannot run. A mesmer will immobilize or daze you after the polymorph.

Also if backstab had a 1200 range you could compare the 2 skills.

You started comparing those skills, not me. That’s why I was referring to it. And yes, you can. The daze after the Morph isn’t instant, you know.

Yes, it is quite balanced. As I said above and Carighan below me, it’s a single target spell with 3 minuten cooldown.

Kanenas.4906:

So you consider what practically equals to a 10 second unbreakable daze a balanced skill?

On a 180s cooldown.
Affecting a single target.

Learn to evade the enemy attacks. It’s not that bad to be moaed you have 2 free evade rolls and a great evade Skill. Moa is only strong when you can CC the Enemy to hell afterwards.

And I would insta switch Moa for Basilisk Venom so much better than Moa. Really low CD, not 1 sec cast time, the Enemy is sunned and cannot evade and I can trait it.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Kanenas.4906:

So you consider what practically equals to a 10 second unbreakable daze a balanced skill?

And no you cannot run. A mesmer will immobilize or daze you after the polymorph.

Also if backstab had a 1200 range you could compare the 2 skills.

You started comparing those skills, not me. And yes, you can. The daze after the Morph isn’t instant, you know.

Yes, it is quite balanced. As I said above and Carighan below me, it’s a single target spell with 3 minuten cooldown.

I compared basilisk with moa saying that basilisk started as unbreakable and fixed nothing else nothing more. Of course you can have your opinion and I respect it whatever it is, but do not say things that are not true.

So the Mesmer Elite should have the drawbacks of both Venom and Polymorph?
As I said – sure, make it stun breakable. Lower the duration if necessary. But I want that 36 second cooldown as well. You can’t just take one aspect of those skills and compare it. The Venom is stunbreakable and has lower duration because in the time where the Moa is on cooldown, you can use Basilisk Venom up to 5 times (5×36 seconds). That’s 7,5 seconds of complete immobilization of the enemy, or forcing the enemy to blow 5 stun breakers. How does that sound?

;-)

I agree. Make moa 1.5 second duration/breakable and make it to have not 36, 20 second CD. Deal?

Why don’t we just copy Basilisk Venom over to Mesmer, rename it to Butterfly Venom and dye it purple?

So, I take it you have no more arguments then? OK

Kanenas.4906:

Also if backstab had a 1200 range you could compare the 2 skills.

Steal + Long Reach Trait and you got a 1500 range.

You still haven’t answered how you can consider such a negligible skill as Moa overpowered in the first place, Kanenas.

I mean, make an argument. You say it’s too strong, why is it too strong? There are so many so game-changing (when stacked) elites, with Moa being far away from them. But I’m open to being educated, why is it too strong in your opinion?
It affects but a single target, so it seems meaningless by default.
(Before you compare Basilisk Venom, that is a PvE Elite. It can be used to break boss scripting, because few enemies are immune to it despite being immune to all other CC. It’s only “bearable” in balance because of that, without that functionality it’d be pretty meh, too.)

swordbreaker.5189:

Kanenas.4906:

Also if backstab had a 1200 range you could compare the 2 skills.

Steal + Long Reach Trait and you got a 1500 range.

Indeed you have. You have a good way to reveal your self before backstab since mug will proc first. There is no backstab build that could take long reach before mug, but this is an other story.

Also you compare a combo of skill plus a trait (a skill to stealth you + steal + backstab + long reach) with a single skill….How fair it is?

Carighan, I explain why at the OP, please read it, since it seems you did not.

Kanenas.4906:

So, I take it you have no more arguments then? OK

I already posted probably all arguments there are why your suggestions are unreasonable in my posts above, others did as well. If that isn’t enough for you, alright. If you keep ignoring everyone here and telling me I have no arguments, that’s fine as well. But don’t expect anyone here to be constructive anymore if you just ignore everything. That is just disrespectful.

Your ideas are horrible, since each class works different in this game and has different mechanics. If you want every class to be the same, you are probably playing the wrong game. I honestly thought you were jokinig with your previous post, that’s why did that as well.

Anyways. I’m out, since there isn’t much more to be said. If you’re looking for arguments, read the responses you got.

As long as it either does or does not kill minions/spirits/elementals/pets on a consistent basis, I don’t mind it, and I’ve frequently had it used on me to cancel Plague or Lich. The only issue I see at the moment is how it affects summons differently for different profrssions.

Kanenas.4906:

Carighan, I explain why at the OP, please read it, since it seems you did not.

That post explains why you personally want to see it nerfed.
It’s different from why we should agree with you that the skill is overpowered.

See, the problem here is that you’re complaining about something on one really uses (the skill is horrendously rare to be seen), because it’s too weak. Yes, too weak. That’s the reason it’s so rarely taken. It enrages the target – as probably evident from your post – but it doesn’t win you the game.

Even between Mesmers, the advice usually is to use it to troll someone who is annoying you, but to not use it for anything serious. TW and MI are always superior to use.

So you got a pretty high wall to work against in your argument.
Mesmers tell each other not to use it, because it’s too weak. If it were too strong, wouldn’t we be using it instead? And most importantly, tell newbie mesmers to use it in PvP? Yeah well, we’re not. We’re doing the exact opposite. :P

Ah, remember the good old days when Moa lasted 30 seconds?

tetrodoxin.2134:

Kanenas.4906:

So, I take it you have no more arguments then? OK

I already posted probably all arguments there are why your suggestions are unreasonable in my posts above, others did as well. If that isn’t enough for you, alright. If you keep ignoring everyone here and telling me I have no arguments, that’s fine as well. But don’t expect anyone here to be constructive anymore if you just ignore everything. That is just disrespectful.

Your ideas are horrible, since each class works different in this game and has different mechanics. If you want every class to be the same, you are probably playing the wrong game. I honestly thought you were jokinig with your previous post, that’s why did that as well.

Anyways. I’m out, since there isn’t much more to be said. If you’re looking for arguments, read the responses you got.

A second time you put in my mouth things I did not say, and this is what is disrespectful.

Where did I say you have no argument? I told you have no more arguments after your last post, when you talked about butterflies etc.

Then you present your ideas as mine and then say I want all skills the same?? “As I said – sure, make it stun breakable. Lower the duration if necessary. But I want that 36 second cooldown as well.” Who said it? you or me?

Carighan I agree with your last post. As Simonoly wrote some posts above, Moa is at the same time an OP and pointless skill.

Wow, you know Mesmer’s eaten a few too many nerfs when folk begin to call Moa OP.
Take it from a guy that’s rocked Mesmer since Day -1: That skill is the least thing to worry about, RE: Mesmer Elites. Considering how many Mesmer abilities are focused
around “group” utility, most Mes players aren’t going to kitten themselves by using Moa. Hell, as previously stated, Mesmers on the local forum usually advise new players
to only use Moa as a quick troll attempt, and even then, only if you’re a heavy roamer.

Don’t get me wrong. The effect it has on Minionmancers is pretty freaking brutal, and that’s about the only aspect we could comfortably call overpowered. I have no idea how that snuck through into the finished skill, tbh.

Honestly, (and I’d think I’m not alone in this mindset), I’d rather that skill be removed
from the game entire. Not because it’s necessarily OP (except versus those poor Minionmancers), but because a physical transformation Elite Skill does NOT fit
the class. Mesmers deal with mental manipulation, and some time/space wackiness.
How does Polymorph sneak in there? It. Freaking. Doesn’t. >_<

My main problem with this elite is that there’s no easy way to practice playing in Moa form… so every time I get transformed, it’s a few seconds of panic as I try to read a tooltip or remember what Moa4 is supposed to do.. and by then I’m long dead anyway.

Hmm, the whole point of the moa form is to nerf the enemies ability to attack or use skills of any sort. In turn I think CC immunity would be wonderful. TH\hat would turn it into a “Chase the chicken” kinda thing instead of simply nuking it.

P.S. of course any kinda nerf to the elite should put it on a lower CD….

P.P.S. Oh yeah I just wana see more chickens, can you blame me?

u can have moa and i take one of your elites instead,deal? i only use moa if i wanna troll in wvw. other than that i think its a useless skill. if anet removes it i wont be complaining at all… oh and take the mantras with too u anet.

op sounds like he plays:
1. a thief who couldnt stealth while moa’d
or
2. a minion master whos minions got fizzled

im betting its the thief, since he knows so much about basilisk venom and mug / long reach.

i laugh and start spamming 12345 and the offending mesmer withers under the wrath of a big bird. being moa’d is an admission by the mesmer that he doesnt know how to fight against you and win. and hes giving you equivalent power packed into 5 fewer keystrokes. the last thing you should do is panic.

so wait you can actualy kill him while in moa form XD?

kyubi.3620:

so wait you can actualy kill him while in moa form XD?

yeah u can. people just tend to panic and run like a headless chicken, i turn around and keep attacking. i still got all my power so my moa hits u hard.

The #5 “flee” should not have been nerfed. If anything, it should last longer than it originally did. It should force the player to bail, not a free kill.