Guild Wars 2

So we all know Dhuumfire is hated. Burning doesn’t even suit the class and all the nerfs that have come the Conditionmancer way due to this one trait is rather annoying. If you could change Dhuumfire to something else, what would you guys like to see it changed?

My idea is to keep the fact the trait is connected to Life Blast but change it to Torment and make it so that the FURTHER away you are the more stacks it gives, This way you have the choice stay close dealing better direct damage with lower Torment stacks or stay at range and deal lower direct damage but supplement that with Torment

Something like:

Wiltering Blast – Life Blast crit inflict Torment, further away from the target means more stacks. 0 – 600 Range: 3 Stacks, 5 seconds. 600+ Range: 6 Stacks, 5 seconds. 10second cool down

Then move it into Soul Reaping, I would say Master traitline as it would require the use of DeathShroud and Life Blast.

they stated on the livestream that theyre (most likely) changing dumbfire this patch to add the burning to dark shroud 1

“(most likely)” cuz they cant actually promise anything until patch day, but its just a disclaimer

watch the stream vod. twitch.tv/guildwars2

From what i have read, it is getting changed and connected to Life Blast, with that change alone it should not be a grand master trait. Will still have a 10second cooldown and the fact that Condition builds LOSE more damage with just this change…

I don’t like the proposed change at all.

It moves the burning to some low casting skill a condi necro wouldn’t ever use otherwise, which is also on Death Shroud, a tool the necro could want to save for defense and which rarely will be used exactly every 10 seconds.
Even with burn duration increased to 3sec (afaik), it sounds like a nerf to me.

It has been obvious for a really long time that Dhuumfire required a nerf. A completely unavoidable (it was going to trigger sooner or later) burn proc was bad design since the very beginning.
Getting it nerfed now, after so many compensation nerfs on bleed sources and (afaik) terror, is quite a nonsense.

I would, honestly, nerf it a bit more (make it behave as an Incendiary Ammo charge granted on leaving death shroud, so the proc gets lost if avoided and it gets some sinergy with Near to Death)
Then, I would revert some past nerfs on different skills and move Terror to Curses grandmaster, probably improved.

With a few more changes here and there, this could allow to reliably build both a Terrormancer that doesn’t use Dhuumfire and some kind of 30/-/-/-/30 Carrion hybrid which doesn’t have Terror.

The upcoming change is a really good one, with the 10 sec ICD and 10 sec ICD of DS, it gives DS a purpose for conditions other than blocking damage.

I can’t see condition Necros losing that much dps, they just need to pop in and out of DS and fire a lifeblast every time the DS cooldown is up.

Moving it into the soul tree wouldn’t be ideal. DS necros wouldn’t take it because there are much better traits to pick (and don’t take Dhumbfire anyway in spite), and condition necros wouldn’t want to spec that high in soul – while talents in spite give condition duration.

Another issue is that a lot of skills were nerfed because of dhuumfire (bleed stacks removed etc.) when there was never a problem with those bleed stacks in the first place. Now that dhuumfire is going to be rammed into the ground, all those bleed stacks and other nerfs should be reverted as well. But this is not very likely to happen. This, in fact, is my major problem with the current balancing of GW2. Just look at the elementalist. It was nerfed so hard that it became practically extict in any competitive environment. The fact that even the developers decided to undo some of those nerfs in the next patch is proof enough of the situation.

Columbo.5924:

Another issue is that a lot of skills were nerfed because of dhuumfire (bleed stacks removed etc.) when there was never a problem with those bleed stacks in the first place. Now that dhuumfire is going to be rammed into the ground, all those bleed stacks and other nerfs should be reverted as well. But this is not very likely to happen. This, in fact, is my major problem with the current balancing of GW2. Just look at the elementalist. It was nerfed so hard that it became practically extict in any competitive environment. The fact that even the developers decided to undo some of those nerfs in the next patch is proof enough of the situation.

this…………all the nerfs done to the class to account for Dhuumfire, need to be reconsidered/reverted.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

The upcoming change is a really good one, with the 10 sec ICD and 10 sec ICD of DS, it gives DS a purpose for conditions other than blocking damage.

I can’t see condition Necros losing that much dps, they just need to pop in and out of DS and fire a lifeblast every time the DS cooldown is up.

But you can’t know when enemies are going to burst you. If you go into DS for a Dhuumfire proc as soon as CD is ready, you won’t have it when, lets say, a warrior starts smashing you.
With the changes, Dhuumfire will be used whenever you enter Death Shroud for different reasons (mitigating a burst, using a fear, …), which would probably happen less often than every 10 seconds.
Life Blast can also be avoided and has a whole second cast time. The skill hits really kitten power builds, but for a rabid condi necro, with arguably low life force generation, even with the bonus power from Spite and a high crit chance from precision I’m not sure at all on about 2k burning bonus damage being worth the investment.
The trait looks great for some kind of hybrid build, but no as appealing for Terrormancers as it is currently. It’s not, however, like condi necros could give it up after so many nerfs applied to other condition sources.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

The upcoming change is a really good one, with the 10 sec ICD and 10 sec ICD of DS, it gives DS a purpose for conditions other than blocking damage.

I can’t see condition Necros losing that much dps, they just need to pop in and out of DS and fire a lifeblast every time the DS cooldown is up.

Moving it into the soul tree wouldn’t be ideal. DS necros wouldn’t take it because there are much better traits to pick (and don’t take Dhumbfire anyway in spite), and condition necros wouldn’t want to spec that high in soul – while talents in spite give condition duration.

I wouldn’t take it in Spite but if it was moved to Soul Reaping Master i would i reckon. Currently it loses out to Close to Death for Power builds but moving it to Soul Reaping Master would give the option of going more defensive or losing a bit of defense and taking Dhuumfire for that extra damage.

Columbo.5924:

Another issue is that a lot of skills were nerfed because of dhuumfire (bleed stacks removed etc.) when there was never a problem with those bleed stacks in the first place. Now that dhuumfire is going to be rammed into the ground, all those bleed stacks and other nerfs should be reverted as well. But this is not very likely to happen. This, in fact, is my major problem with the current balancing of GW2. Just look at the elementalist. It was nerfed so hard that it became practically extict in any competitive environment. The fact that even the developers decided to undo some of those nerfs in the next patch is proof enough of the situation.

I agree with the nerfs that Dhuumfire has already seen, in my opinion this counts as a nerf as well. That takes JUST Dhuumfire being nerfed 3 times since introduction and what about all the nerfs to all the other skills?

You can bet none of them will be removed either. This IS a nerf to Conditionmancers as they would be required to stay LONGER in a DS which removes all condition damage they can do, sure adds a fear, Immbo and Torment – the question is, will the damage of Dhuumfire be enough to counter the loss of damage from not using condition based attacks? Personally, i dont think it will.

Dhuumfire was a bad design idea. It was completely overpowered when it was first implemented.

Currently it’s powerful, but not out of line given the state of Necromancers.

With the next patch, it will be completely useless.

From bad-OP to bad-UP. It’s still a bad idea.

Again, just like Healing Signet, I can only imagine the reason why it still exists is because some balance developer is too proud to admit they made an egregious error.

It’s another example of where the knowledgeable player base was right and the developers were wrong.

Yep, when you consider all the nerfs that have happened to Necromancer due to this ONE trait, a trait that MANY Necromancers from the start said they didn’t want and would be too powerful it was ignored, then all the complaints started and so did the round after round of nerfs.

I like the idea of a condition attached to Life Blast, i just don’t think it should be Burning and i don’t think it should be a Grandmaster Trait.

Another option they could have chosen:

What could have been interesting, though would take work on several of the weapons. Replace Dhuumfire with a trait that would mean Life Blasts inflict the condition your Auto attack has…

Axe = Vul
Scepter = Bleeding
Dagger = Poison*
Staff = Torment*

The changes would need to possibly see slight adjustments to the auto attacks of Dagger and Staff to accommodate the new conditions. The conditions inflicted with Life Blast would have the same duration as the Auto Attack counter parts.

So Vul would be 2 stacks for 9 seconds, Bleeding would be 1 stack 5 1/4 seconds. Poison i would say about 5seconds would be about right and Torment would be 1 stack 4 seconds duration

I agree with you OP. Sounds like a solid change to me.
One thing tho. I would want it so it only applies a couple stacks per hit, with a shorter cooldown. Some thing like:
2 stacks 5 seconds 5 sec cd at 600- range
3 stacks 5 seconds 5 sec cd at 600+ range
This would promote hybridmancers as well as keep the “condi bomb” situation under control. I’m not saying you do, but many people underestimate how powerful torment is.

I think the dhuumfire change is good in isolation. I would like to see nerfs to all the condi immunity and to lyssa though to compensate. Then the game can be less spammy and more skill based. Dhuumfire change is a step in the right direction provided things like berserker stance and longbow cleansing ire (bugged so it procs even when it hits nobody) and lyysa runes are also hit

Stand The Wall.6987:

I agree with you OP. Sounds like a solid change to me.
One thing tho. I would want it so it only applies a couple stacks per hit, with a shorter cooldown. Some thing like:
2 stacks 5 seconds 5 sec cd at 600- range
3 stacks 5 seconds 5 sec cd at 600+ range
This would promote hybridmancers as well as keep the “condi bomb” situation under control. I’m not saying you do, but many people underestimate how powerful torment is.

The problem with that – the damage would be less than that of current Dhuumfire. With 3 stacks for 5 seconds that would be about 480 damage if the target doesnt move, increasing to about 900 damage if they are just getting Dhuumfire currently is 984 damage (WvW)

Maybe make it 3 stacks in Closer range, 4 stacks at 600+ range and increase the cool down to say 7 seconds. Remember having a cool down of 5 seconds and having it proc on crit would pretty much be Perma Torment.

But maybe the number of stacks for 600+ range could be lowered a bit. I would sday 3 stacks for Under 600 range and 4-5 stacks for 600+ range, the cool down would NEVER get reduced to 5 seconds with a duration of 5 seconds, i think this way it would be better.

This trait moving to Soul Reaping Master would also serve to up the cost a bit due to the fact that in i8ts current location condition builds would still go 30/30 gaining BOTH 300condition damage as well as the 30% duration. This way they would have to pick either damage or duration, not both.