Just curious, which builds aren’t OP and aren’t cheesy (or buttery… replace the cheese with butter! start the movement today).
This is not a thread for people to cry “PLEASE FIX BUILD X ON CLASS Y”…
This is not a thread for people to say “PLEASE NERF BUILD X ON CLASS Y”…
(there are TONS of those, look at any other post…)
I’m just purely curious which builds aren’t cheesy or OP, for every class… Try to be as specific as possible…
Generally don’t care about PvE, as majority of “OP” cries are coming from WvW and PvP… which is understandable…
But then again, knowing that this is the an internet forum… and that there’s been a lot of crying… this will most likely become a flame/cry thread…
I agree that elementalists are currently underpowered, but that untelegraphed S/D combo should be toned down. The first thing would be deleting the damage component of Lightning Flash and making it a stun breaker again. That would be a buff to elementalists while also reducing the damage of that combo.
If if still deals too much damage … it’s a tough one. I wouldn’t change Hurl, Earthquake, Static Discharce or the Arcanes … which only leaves Lightning Strike. But giving Lightning Strike a cast time would require a rework of all Scepter-Air skills – maybe not a bad idea.
I can’t wait until ANet releases the game promoted in the manifesto.
Until that, I’ll play GW2.
The first thing would be deleting the damage component of Lightning Flash and making it a stun breaker again. That would be a buff to elementalists while also reducing the damage of that combo.
Agree, the lightning flash change was a net step backwards.
Let’s face it though, changes to cantrips are the least of Ele’s worries. Glyphs, signets, and conjures all need attention a lot more than cantrips. From the PVP/WVW perspective of course.
Moreover, I’d rather see the skill floor for Ele raised, even if it comes at the cost of lowering the ceiling. The std deviation of Ele performance is larger than any other class (IMO), which is always going to mean it is impossible to balance well.
Case in point – the series of sledgehammer nerfs that took Ele from “best” PVP class to “worst” PVP class in the space of a few months.
This is a good thread I don’t think there will be a consensus at all lol. Smart thread though
Im guessing replies will be P/P thief not a build just the weapon set
Med Guards
All ranger builds
All ele
That’s all I can think of that people would say is not OP basically the easy to kill builds.
I agree that elementalists are currently underpowered, but that untelegraphed S/D combo should be toned down. The first thing would be deleting the damage component of Lightning Flash and making it a stun breaker again. That would be a buff to elementalists while also reducing the damage of that combo.
I’m not sure how I’d like it done, but I, as an ele, fully support some nerfs to the crazy burst from this one build.
I would like ele survivability buffed, yes, but that’s just not going to happen when so much damage can be done so quickly by a specific setup.
30/x/x/x/30 Berserker staff ele with brilliance, wave, shield, and one utility of choice along with any elite (nado storm is fun but I recommend trying other stuff too).
High skill requirements, rewarding, and lets you do some really neat stuff, but is not really viable, mostly because of thieves (any, and I mean any, melee thief will destroy you, though you have moderately good surivivability against one trying to use ranged attacks).
Conditions can be an issue, but not as much as you would think despite the obvious deficiency in removal. Any situation where you would die to conditions, you would die to direct damage too.
You pretty much can’t say it’s overpowered ever, but it’s awesome.
I agree that elementalists are currently underpowered, but that untelegraphed S/D combo should be toned down. The first thing would be deleting the damage component of Lightning Flash and making it a stun breaker again. That would be a buff to elementalists while also reducing the damage of that combo.
If if still deals too much damage … it’s a tough one. I wouldn’t change Hurl, Earthquake, Static Discharce or the Arcanes … which only leaves Lightning Strike. But giving Lightning Strike a cast time would require a rework of all Scepter-Air skills – maybe not a bad idea.
I dont agree on this at all, I got attacked by a ele on a sentry using S/D and i barely beated her i was left with less than 3k hp. I learned then solo eles is a force to be reckon with and thats how it should be.
That’s when its fun not when they are free kills.
How is ele UP again? They strike me as a class with great survivability and good damage through normal and condition means regardless of build variation for d/d.
They strike me as one of the most solid class’s in the game right now not looking at the lack of build diversity(needs more weapons).
How is ele UP again? They strike me as a class with great survivability and good damage through normal and condition means regardless of build variation for d/d.
They strike me as one of the most solid class’s in the game right now not looking at the lack of build diversity(needs more weapons).
1) Make an ele.
2) Go into sPvP, grab one of the more polished builds, play several matches (with different groups, playing with the same people shows nothing).
3) Then, you may go on here and say that they have great survivability and are not underpowered.
4) Alternately, get one to level 80 and try to WvW outside of a zerg, but that takes a lot longer.
1) Shatter Mesmers (still relatively common but have been nerfed constantly since launch)
2) Lock-Down Mesmers (very rare, although some lockdown elements are woven into some builds)
3) Mantra Mesmers (non-existent, Mantra are still really cumbersome)
4) Signet Mesmers (non-existent, Signets are horrible compared to other classes)
5) Glamour Mesmers (non-existent, got a double nerf-bat six months ago, never recovered)
Hell…. any Mesmer at serious tPvP level is UP and not really desired these days.
The only Mesmer that might be construed as somewhat OP is some forms of PU Mesmers, and then only when faced by people who have little clue on how to deal with them (i.e. don’t spam kill the clones, don’t hit scepter and get a torment when he tries to block you, don’t stand there like a muppet and let his conditions eat you up, etc).
Edit… with the stealth bug that got introduced in the new patch, also render phantasm Mesmers no longer viable.
@pmnt, you just said elementalists are underpowered yet you want to nerf elementalists even more.
I just don’t want to read whining about ele just because there is one 10 skill combo that blows every utility and has a cooldown of forty-five seconds. That that combo is untelegraphed is a valid complain, no matter how bad the current state of the ele is. I’d rather tone down that spike (rework of LF + scpeter skills) and buff everything else than leave ele in its current state because of one gimmicky combo.
Edit: 45 → forty-five, because kitten .
I can’t wait until ANet releases the game promoted in the manifesto.
Until that, I’ll play GW2.
There’s a reason why nobody uses eles anymore no matter how “OP” people claim them to be. S/D burst eles are the real zerkers of the game. Kill fast and die fast. The build has no natural survivability like clones and stealth nor does it have HP and Armor to make up for it.
We can all agree that the burst can’t be telegraphed easily but if you do, he’ll have to wait a long time to be able to burst someone again. What you need to do is to initiate before they do.
Another reason why you don’t see eles in sPVP are on the other threads: Thieves. The other thread is full of good information (and some bad) so check it out.
BTW I still believe that Thief is not OP, their stealth mechanic is.
Power engies are pretty balanced, be it a HGH rifle spec of a bomb kit/FT/TK spec or something. Or a static discharge spec, even though it “can” one shot people if youre glass and blow every utility at the same time, just like s/d eles, but neither of those seem OP since you are dead if you dont one shot your target, which makes more sense than other classes also being able to one shot people but still managing to survive anything in the same spec.
Condi engies are close to balance but it still seems too easy to apply condis without a lot of effort just by spamming grenades and pistol 2+3 while keeping a lot of survivability, but someone with more experience recently with those specs might disagree.
if you are playing a class and build and before a fight you do not know if you win or lose. That’s not OP.
If you know you win regardless of the other class or build or skill than you are OP. If you know you lose than the other guy is OP.
Roughly describes what’s OP and what’s not OP…
The goal of this thread is to generate a list of everything that’s not OP…
It seems it VERY EASY to generate a list of what’s OP (look at other posts)…
This thread would be great debate but people can’t sit back and say whats OP so if there really isn’t much OP in the game is everything balanced? People would argue it isn’t for sure and describe everything that is “broken” but could they provide builds that are balanced for other professions?
Power engies are pretty balanced, be it a HGH rifle spec of a bomb kit/FT/TK spec or something. Or a static discharge spec, even though it “can” one shot people if youre glass and blow every utility at the same time, just like s/d eles, but neither of those seem OP since you are dead if you dont one shot your target, which makes more sense than other classes also being able to one shot people but still managing to survive anything in the same spec.
Condi engies are close to balance but it still seems too easy to apply condis without a lot of effort just by spamming grenades and pistol 2+3 while keeping a lot of survivability, but someone with more experience recently with those specs might disagree.
Bunker engis are crazy easy to play. The other specs are ok.
Power engies are pretty balanced, be it a HGH rifle spec of a bomb kit/FT/TK spec or something. Or a static discharge spec, even though it “can” one shot people if youre glass and blow every utility at the same time, just like s/d eles, but neither of those seem OP since you are dead if you dont one shot your target, which makes more sense than other classes also being able to one shot people but still managing to survive anything in the same spec.
Condi engies are close to balance but it still seems too easy to apply condis without a lot of effort just by spamming grenades and pistol 2+3 while keeping a lot of survivability, but someone with more experience recently with those specs might disagree.
Bunker engis are crazy easy to play. The other specs are ok.
Passive immunities like Automated Response are a silly bad mechanic across all professions. And I wouldn’t mind taking away some of Grenade Kits prowess if it meant distributing it amongst the other Kits, or hell Gadgets or Turrets. As for Static Discharge. let me tell you, this build can be very challenging/rewarding but is very risky if not impossible to play competitively in high-end PvP. (Try beating a Minion Necromancer when your Supply Crate is down without running.)
All in all, However incomplete the Engineer is, its in a fragile but decent spot right now that could really only use improvements to a vast amount of broken/unused traits/skills/mechanics to solidify their viability. —- But sadly, this isn’t just an Engineer only dilemma.
vi·a·ble [vahy-uh-buhl]
adjective
-Having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.
Veteran of The Mists & Professional Engineer
Dingo King-Hound King-Coyoti King-Thylacine King-Hyena King
So… So far:
Med Guardians
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles
They don’t have to be UP, just not OP…
Seems like a pretty short list so far…
Melee spirit rangers are certainly OP.
Eles need buffs with the exception of meteor shower which needs a damage nerf and a red ring for the attack.
But it doesn’t need a damage nerf. Assuming you’re talking about high-damage builds, the amount of risk that accompanies using the skill makes it have to deal high damage.
On top of that, it’s really, really easy to move out of the AoE.
Sure you can hit crazy numbers in zergs, but who can’t?
But it doesn’t need a damage nerf. Assuming you’re talking about high-damage builds, the amount of risk that accompanies using the skill makes it have to deal high damage.
On top of that, it’s really, really easy to move out of the AoE.
Sure you can hit crazy numbers in zergs, but who can’t?
Sometimes that doesn’t justify for some builds…. for some odd reasons… o well
BUMP, let’s see what’s not OP people! Or is everything OP because you lose to it?
Healing necromancer (decent bunker, but heals and support are terrible even in full healing build) Lifesteal necromancer (lifesteal is too weak to make a full build out of it; conflicts with Death Shroud; Signet of Vampirism is a joke) Condition guardian (burning does not stack so why bother) Mantra mesmer (awkward and slow to charge up in combat) Confusion-stacking mesmer (takes a lot of effort to stack up; easily cleared off like bleeds)
Some mechanics are unwieldy or impossible to make a decent build with, but parts of them can be used in other builds. I, for one, use mantras on my mesmer in PvE whenever I don’t need my focus (so I can put on the mantra healing trait).
Any useful build = OP
Any useless build = UP
That’s what it looks like when people call builds op.
I never asked what’s specifically only for UP. I’m asking what’s not OP, meaning UP and balanced, or another category that i dont know of… And you’re being very general too…
Engineers are one of the most balanced classes. They have a large number of builds all of which are fairly “in the middle” of effectiveness. Decap engineer being the exception but that is a one trick pony build.
Rangers are UP and therefore not really balanced as you would put it.
So far:
Med Guardians
Condition guardian
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles (zerker)
Healing necromancer
Lifesteal necromancer
Mantra mesmer
Confusion-staking mesmer
Engineers (power)
So… So far:
Med Guardians
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles
They don’t have to be UP, just not OP…
Seems like a pretty short list so far…
Melee spirit rangers are certainly OP.
Eles need buffs with the exception of meteor shower which needs a damage nerf and a red ring for the attack.
But it doesn’t need a damage nerf. Assuming you’re talking about high-damage builds, the amount of risk that accompanies using the skill makes it have to deal high damage.
On top of that, it’s really, really easy to move out of the AoE.
Sure you can hit crazy numbers in zergs, but who can’t?
It needs a red circle AND a damage nerf. The reason for the red circle is that you can’t dodge what you don’t see. You already take a good hit before you realize it is cast. Remember that most fights are not 1v1 and so you aren’t sitting there watching the ele cast it. Every other AOE skill has a circle and this should as well.
The damage is too high, at least in PvP. AOE should be weaker across the board, and this is just one example. Ele should have some of their single target skills buffed instead.
So far:
Med Guardians
Condition guardian
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles (zerker)
Healing necromancer
Lifesteal necromancer
Mantra mesmer
Confusion-staking mesmer
Engineers
Engineers? No no no. Do you not see all the threads about decap engis or bunker engis? They are insanely strong right now and easy to play.
So far:
Med Guardians
Condition guardian
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles (zerker)
Healing necromancer
Lifesteal necromancer
Mantra mesmer
Confusion-staking mesmer
Engineers
Engineers? No no no. Do you not see all the threads about decap engis or bunker engis? They are insanely strong right now and easy to play.
1) Shatter Mesmers (still relatively common but have been nerfed constantly since launch)
2) Lock-Down Mesmers (very rare, although some lockdown elements are woven into some builds)
3) Mantra Mesmers (non-existent, Mantra are still really cumbersome)
4) Signet Mesmers (non-existent, Signets are horrible compared to other classes)
5) Glamour Mesmers (non-existent, got a double nerf-bat six months ago, never recovered)
Hell…. any Mesmer at serious tPvP level is UP and not really desired these days.
The only Mesmer that might be construed as somewhat OP is some forms of PU Mesmers, and then only when faced by people who have little clue on how to deal with them (i.e. don’t spam kill the clones, don’t hit scepter and get a torment when he tries to block you, don’t stand there like a muppet and let his conditions eat you up, etc).
Edit… with the stealth bug that got introduced in the new patch, also render phantasm Mesmers no longer viable.
yep true. the problem is our ai. this bug we had showed how ai is a mesmers core and thats the reason why we lack so much in tpvp and wvw. in wvw we lack aoe dmg since glamour nerf. i seriously tried every build out there. i got 6 different armor sets with different runes and none of them makes me more than a veilbot. i am running high toughness power pu atm so i can veil the guild and can survive the cc spam. thats it. the ones killing are the war,guardians and eles. u really dont need more than 1 mes.
i want my class to be reworked
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
There is literally only one thing about rangers that is OP: the downed/underwater downed pet heal. If you are fighting a ranger and somehow manage to get downed along with them, you may as well just alt f4/log out/etc because you’re not winning that fight.
If you think about it, there is nothing really OP in terms of zerker stuff besides thief. It’s only OP because of stealth. stealth doesn’t have anything to do with armor or trinkets so they are still able to deal out massive damage while being invisible for most of the fight, which is total bs.
All other zerker builds for other classes besides MAYBE mesmer have like a 99% chance of getting one shot due to not being able to hide in stealth. Zerker ranger, guardian, engi, etc etc. All of these classes do ridiculous damage but it isn’t OP because the sacrifice of armor for damage can actually get them killed whereas a thief can reset the fights over and over.
Decap Engineer would be the only OP build out of dozens of engineer builds and only for sPvP. Engineer is pretty much the standard of being balanced (outside this one obscure build).
