Guild Wars 2

It is about time that the game fixed the downstate skills. It is a joke that even after more than a year the downstate skills are STILL so imbalanced and in cases simply don’t work. Either give everyone GOOD downstate skills (Ele, Thief) or remove the whole system.

Now we know that they can’t remove downstate as the whole game is “balanced” (like Anet even knows what that word means) having yet another mechanic that is simply NOT balanced what so ever.

So lets assume that the planets align and along with world peace, end of hunger that Anet decides that it is time they actually BALANCED the game…What would you like to be done with Downstate?

First: Remove Stealth and Stability finishing. This is insanely broken and should never have gotten into the game.

Second: Make all Downstate #2 NOT require a target that still interrupts, Stuns, Fears those in a reasonable range of the downed player. Some classes – such as Ele, Thief can keep theirs, Mesmer changed to not require a target. Guardian kept the same. Ranger, Necro, Warrior, Engineer has theres turned into a AoE skill.

Third: Make the Downstate #3 skills MUCH more balanced. Kinda think that every class having a version of Vengeance of course given new name. Change the affect to 100% rally on enemy kill BUT your tables are reset so when you use the skill you have to damage enough that someone gets downed/finished for you to be rallied – this would prevent easy rally from WvW Zerg fights.

What do you guys think?
What would you like done with downstate?

Or do you think that it is “balanced” and dont want it changed – would be interested to know what class you are as well…

First point, how would you propose we get rid of stealth and stability stomping? We obviously can’t get rid of stealth or stability as they are a very important part of the game.

Maybe if we nerf those buffs that they can’t be used against a downed player? But that would always ensuring that the downed player would get an interrupt off. That’s not going to be fun for anyone. Using the skills your class has to take down an opponent downed or not is their right (thief).

Your second point will also make downed state incredibly overwhelming. Say 3 people are downed at a point, they all chain AoE blast their foes for their teammates to come rescue them? That’d be unfair and lacks skill diversity imo.

I think out of all the issues that this game has, the down state is not the highest priority. Everyone knows each classes downed states abilities, if you’re aware you should be able to predict what your downed foe is going to do.

On the other hand, I agree that thieves, mesmers, and elementalists have some boss downed state abilities, while engineers, necros, and warriors don’t have much. Hopefully they’ll find a good way to balance them.
I play an Engineer.

Engineers can have a self-rezz when downed, necros win every 1v1 downed-duell and warrior-downed-state isn’t that bad too because they can also win many downed-state duells or they can rezz team-mates etc. Also keep in mind that ele, thief and mesmers are the 3 most squishy classes and maybe teams should be punished a little bit by their downed-state when they focus these classes first. Stability usually also has to be built for via utilities or or traits – people sacrifice other things for stability in order to be good stompers. And on the other hand there are also boon-strips to prevent stability-stomping.
I agree though that downed-state should be removed entirely in PvP or altered. Not the downed-spells but the mechanic that every player gets rezzed when an enemy player dies. This is utterly stupid and random.

Gorni.1764:

Engineers can have a self-rezz when downed, necros win every 1v1 downed-duell and warrior-downed-state isn’t that bad too because they can also win many downed-state duells or they can rezz team-mates etc. Also keep in mind that ele, thief and mesmers are the 3 most squishy classes and maybe teams should be punished a little bit by their downed-state when they focus these classes first. Stability usually also has to be built for via utilities or or traits – people sacrifice other things for stability in order to be good stompers. And on the other hand there are also boon-strips to prevent stability-stomping.
I agree though that downed-state should be removed entirely in PvP or altered. Not the downed-spells but the mechanic that every player gets rezzed when an enemy player dies. This is utterly stupid and random.

Necro wins every 1v1 downstate duel? Play against a Ranger, he will always win thanks to his pet.
You know that Eles can also selfrez (throuth it is never seen as no ele takes the skill).

I do not agree with remove from game or PvP.
I’d like this system.

I play warrior.

Gorni.1764:

Engineers can have a self-rezz when downed

…which no one takes because it’s not what you’re making it out to be and the utility that goes along with that skill is horrid since they removed the stunbreaker…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

If this is what’s keeping eng downed state the among worst downed 3 states… please remove it. No one will miss it.

STIMjim.7405:

First point, how would you propose we get rid of stealth and stability stomping? We obviously can’t get rid of stealth or stability as they are a very important part of the game.

Maybe if we nerf those buffs that they can’t be used against a downed player? But that would always ensuring that the downed player would get an interrupt off. That’s not going to be fun for anyone. Using the skills your class has to take down an opponent downed or not is their right (thief).

Your second point will also make downed state incredibly overwhelming. Say 3 people are downed at a point, they all chain AoE blast their foes for their teammates to come rescue them? That’d be unfair and lacks skill diversity imo.

I think out of all the issues that this game has, the down state is not the highest priority. Everyone knows each classes downed states abilities, if you’re aware you should be able to predict what your downed foe is going to do.

On the other hand, I agree that thieves, mesmers, and elementalists have some boss downed state abilities, while engineers, necros, and warriors don’t have much. Hopefully they’ll find a good way to balance them.
I play an Engineer.

Would it take work? Yes
Is it impossible? No

Simple fact is, both of these mean that the ONLY downstate skills that are MEANT to delay getting finished are Ele, Thief and Mesmer and Mesmer ONLY works against the Stability one.

When you have two mechanics that simply make downstate skills useless on 5 of 8 classes classes that says something, something BAD about the “balance”

Simply stopping Stability and Stealth stomping wouldn’t change the game a HUGE amount, Zerg fights would be different but in most cases you go down in a zerg fight in a position that someone is able to even try and finish you, i am guessing you would be dead anyway.

The downstate is meant to DELAY your eventual death and give you a chance, the amount of times i have nearly downed someone who have like less than 5% health only for them to stability up or go stealth to finish me knowing that had i been able to actually delay them like the skills are MEANT to do then i would have downed them and then the fight would have become a different situation.

Right, so basing the WAY thing around ONE game mode, one that is the least played out of the 3 isn’t exactly the best way to go about things. Who says they have to be knock backs?

Warrior = stun
Necro = Fear
Mesmer = Targetless teleport
Engineer = AoE Pull(?)
Ranger = Pet AoE Fear(?)

Does it matter if it lacks “skill diversity” if what is more important that the downstate skills are actually BALANCED.

Okay – Here is a scenario:

You have just been downed, your enemy has less than 5% health, you know they have already used the heal skill and so they can’t heal back up. You go to use your Downstate #2 skill in the hope you can delay them enough to down them as well…

…Oh no, they have gone stealth, making your target skill totally useless and thus them getting the kill thanks to NOT skill but simply pressing a button.

Does that sound like “skill” – Pressing ONE button for a mechanic not every class even has to be able to make the downed foes downstate skill simply useless…

Either EVERYONE should have good downstate skills or NO ONE should -So if they can’t/won’t fix the majority then they just nerf the minority which would be easier to do – Still would need to stop/fix Stealth/Stability stomping though

Muchacho.2390:

Necro wins every 1v1 downstate duel? Play against a Ranger, he will always win thanks to his pet.
You know that Eles can also selfrez (throuth it is never seen as no ele takes the skill).

or…
Thief that can port out of range and heal up
Mesmer that can port and summon a Phantasm that hits like a truck

In a right next to each other, both goes down at the same time then yeah, Necro has the upper hand against SOME classes. It does not however win “every 1v1”

Ranger Underwater downed is INSANE.

the downed state skills are meant to be like that.

warriors have highest health, heavy armor, so they have throw rocks, throw hammer as their downed skills.

nowadays i play a warrior mostly by the way.

Some of them can use a little tuning. Ranger is completely screwed if the enemy trying to stomp them has invulnerability or stability. I’m not sure what the warrior’s is. Mesmer’s is probably the best for getting the enemy killed before they get the stomp. Thief and Elementalist’s really aren’t that good. Keep in mind that I’m speaking from the perspective of being downed while the enemy is trying to stomp, not a downed vs downed fight. They are only good for buying time or closing the gap between them and reinforcements. But then again, that’s kind of what most of them are.

actually all professions are meant to be stomped if the stomping profession has invulnerability, the mesmer.

stability can be removed, but it is not easy. not many professions can strip boons. especially if the boon is protected by many other boons on top of the stability boon.

Tom.8029:

Thief and Elementalist’s really aren’t that good. Keep in mind that I’m speaking from the perspective of being downed while the enemy is trying to stomp, not a downed vs downed fight.

Wat. Ele prevents the first stomp attempts every single time and allows you to move to a better spot to be ressed. No other class can do this. It’s hands down the strongest downed sate because of this.

Thief can only be stomped on the first attempt if you use a teleport skill that doesn’t break the stomp (ex. steal/blink). Then they also get a stealth for their #3 which prevents a 2nd stomp 100% of the time as long as you can get it off CD.

Mes can stop the first stomp every time as long as there is a target.

The rest of the classes downed states fail to stability/blind… eng/war/necro can’t even stop two stompers at the same time… eng/war can’t stop a single stomp if there is some one else standing in front of the stomper.

It’s so imbalanced that it’s redic… and it’s only 3 skills (4th is universal). How has this not been addressed in over a year outside of giving ele the strongest downed state?

If you think ele/thief “really aren’t that good” you might want to play more professions.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

actually all professions are meant to be stomped if the stomping profession has invulnerability, the mesmer.

stability can be removed, but it is not easy. not many professions can strip boons. especially if the boon is protected by many other boons on top of the stability boon.

Then they need to fix Ele/mes/thief…

What are you talking about? I said the elementalist downed state is good for closing the gap between yourself and reinforcements and for buying time. Avoiding a stomp buys time, doesn’t it??? If there is no one around to help you (reinforcements) then it isn’t good.

Like oh my god. I swear people don’t even read before responding.

Besides, after that first Vapor form, you can’t do anything for about 8 seconds except use the auto vulnerability or the immobilize. So again, the immobilize is buying you time, unless you manage to kill your enemy or they’re already close enough to stomp you. So no, it isn’t too good. Certainly not warranting a nerf.

Also, if you get immobilized while downed and then try to Vapor Form away, you won’t go anywhere and if they started the stomp just before you were in vapor form and finish it after you’re out of it, you get stomped because you were immobilized and couldn’t move.

Let’s also not forget that Elementalists, Mesmers, and Thieves all have low base health and armor. As such, they’re more likely to be put in downed state more quickly than other professions. So maybe stronger downed-state skills are justified.

Aberrant.6749:

Wat. Ele prevents the first stomp attempts every single time and allows you to move to a better spot to be ressed. No other class can do this. It’s hands down the strongest downed sate because of this.

do you remember that elementalist have lowest health pool and light armor?
no other professions have lowest health pool and light armor.
this is working as intended. do not fix.

i mainly play a warrior and i have no problem with this.

Aberrant.6749:

Thief can only be stomped on the first attempt if you use a teleport skill that doesn’t break the stomp (ex. steal/blink). Then they also get a stealth for their #3 which prevents a 2nd stomp 100% of the time as long as you can get it off CD.

as for downed thieves, i do not bother stomping them all.

i just lay down combustion shot on them, then hammer them until they bleed out. someone trying to revive them? i’ll just hammer cc them.

thieves have lowest health pool and they do seem to bleed out much faster when downed.

Tom.8029:

What are you talking about? I said the elementalist downed state is good for closing the gap between yourself and reinforcements and for buying time. Avoiding a stomp buys time, doesn’t it??? If there is no one around to help you (reinforcements) then it isn’t good.

Like oh my god. I swear people don’t even read before responding.

Besides, after that first Vapor form, you can’t do anything for about 8 seconds except use the auto vulnerability or the immobilize. So again, the immobilize is buying you time, unless you manage to kill your enemy or they’re already close enough to stomp you. So no, it isn’t too good. Certainly not warranting a nerf.

Also, if you get immobilized while downed and then try to Vapor Form away, you won’t go anywhere and if they started the stomp just before you were in vapor form and finish it after you’re out of it, you get stomped because you were immobilized and couldn’t move.

Let’s also not forget that Elementalists, Mesmers, and Thieves all have low base health and armor. As such, they’re more likely to be put in downed state more quickly than other professions. So maybe stronger downed-state skills are justified.

I read your entire post bro… and quoted the part that I felt summed it up. Seems to me like you’re trying to downplay how strong these downed states are when compared to the rest.

Preventing that first stomp is by far the most important thing when you’re downed. 100% + ability to move unless you get a 3s+ long root on you is frekkin’ epic. Even the dev’s said it’s the strongest downed state when they changed it. Being able to root the ele now doesn’t change that. 100% denial for 3s is something no other class can boast.

Lower armor/HP doesn’t mean you die fast in this game.

Eles (can) have high mobility/prot uptime/regen/multiple heals.

Mesmers have a LOT of get out of jail free cards (stealth/deception/teleports/good stunbreakers/pseudo sunbreaks/high prot, aegis, regen uptimes…)

Thieves can have evades/blinds/stealth/teleports/tons of dodges.

If you’re dying fast it’s player error (build/gear/gameplay), not the class itself.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

do you remember that elementalist have lowest health pool and light armor?
no other professions have lowest health pool and light armor.
this is working as intended. do not fix.

i mainly play a warrior and i have no problem with this.

See above for why ele having low hp/armor doesn’t mean it just drops like a fly.

I play multiple classes, including ele. I find that it helps to have played the classes in question for quite a while.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

as for downed thieves, i do not bother stomping them all.

i just lay down combustion shot on them, then hammer them until they bleed out. someone trying to revive them? i’ll just hammer cc them.

thieves have lowest health pool and they do seem to bleed out much faster when downed.

Depends on what game mode. If it’s WvW and I have time, I’ll usually stomp for the points. PvP depends on the timer/what else is going on.

I gotta admit… it’s kinda fun to troll thieves and let them choose how they want to die by doing a small amount of damage then attempting a stomp over and over.

Aberrant.6749:

Tom.8029:

What are you talking about? I said the elementalist downed state is good for closing the gap between yourself and reinforcements and for buying time. Avoiding a stomp buys time, doesn’t it??? If there is no one around to help you (reinforcements) then it isn’t good.

Like oh my god. I swear people don’t even read before responding.

Besides, after that first Vapor form, you can’t do anything for about 8 seconds except use the auto vulnerability or the immobilize. So again, the immobilize is buying you time, unless you manage to kill your enemy or they’re already close enough to stomp you. So no, it isn’t too good. Certainly not warranting a nerf.

Also, if you get immobilized while downed and then try to Vapor Form away, you won’t go anywhere and if they started the stomp just before you were in vapor form and finish it after you’re out of it, you get stomped because you were immobilized and couldn’t move.

Let’s also not forget that Elementalists, Mesmers, and Thieves all have low base health and armor. As such, they’re more likely to be put in downed state more quickly than other professions. So maybe stronger downed-state skills are justified.

I read your entire post bro… and quoted the part that I felt summed it up. Seems to me like you’re trying to downplay how strong these downed states are when compared to the rest.

Preventing that first stomp is by far the most important thing when you’re downed. 100% + ability to move unless you get a 3s+ long root on you is frekkin’ epic. Even the dev’s said it’s the strongest downed state when they changed it. Being able to root the ele now doesn’t change that. 100% denial for 3s is something no other class can boast.

Lower armor/HP doesn’t mean you die fast in this game.

Eles (can) have high mobility/prot uptime/regen/multiple heals.

Mesmers have a LOT of get out of jail free cards (stealth/deception/teleports/good stunbreakers/pseudo sunbreaks/high prot, aegis, regen uptimes…)

Thieves can have evades/blinds/stealth/teleports/tons of dodges.

If you’re dying fast it’s player error (build/gear/gameplay), not the class itself.

Exactly. These professions have these mechanics (Mobility, protection, regeneration, stealth, etc) because they need them as a result of their lower health and lower armor to survive.

Here’s an extreme scenario. A warrior and an elementalist are both standing next to each other with armor on, the same set up (attributes) and no traits for anything like protection or regeneration any of that stuff. Then there’s an enemy between them that attacks both targets every time it hits.

Now since the warrior has heavy armor and higher health, the warrior will die after the elementalist. So tell me how armor and base health don’t affect how quickly you die. Like I’ve said, every moment in the fight matters.

An example of how armor affects the game. In heart of the mists, there are those 3 golems that you can attack to see how much damage you can inflict. There’s a Heavy, Medium, and Light armor golem. Now why would they have them if there wasn’t a notable difference in the attacks on each type of armor. The armor differences don’t mean you’ll die instantaneously, but they certainly play a role.

“If you’re dying fast it’s player error (build/gear/gameplay), not the class itself.”

So learn to deal with elementalists and their vapor form. You’re going to use any ridiculous claim to support your opinion anyway. And it is ridiculous. :P

Personally I’d just make every classes down state the same.

Every class should have the guardians #1, #2, there should be no #3, and of course everyone has #4.

Or even let people choose their down-state skills.. I dont care. As long as everyone gets the same choices.. because at the moment it is a bit annoying that you are stuck with your classes downed skills and thats that, and of course leads to imbalance. In zerg battles ele’s downed state is better than everyones by a big margin.. in 1v1s ele’s downed skills are useless but the rangers are really good. Classes like necro are the losers and dont have good downed skills anywhere.

Should just be the same.

Why don’t we just make all classes the same? Everybody should play warrior so there is no flame anymore. Everyone will be happy right?

Tom.8029:

These professions have these mechanics (Mobility, protection, regeneration, stealth, etc) because they need them as a result of their lower health and lower armor to survive.

Here’s an extreme scenario. A warrior and an elementalist are both standing next to each other with armor on, the same set up (attributes) and no traits for anything like protection or regeneration any of that stuff. Then there’s an enemy between them that attacks both targets every time it hits.

Now since the warrior has heavy armor and higher health, the warrior will die after the elementalist. So tell me how armor and base health don’t affect how quickly you die. Like I’ve said, every moment in the fight matters.

If you’re talking pure facetank ability then yes the war is superior in that regard. However… back in reality… ele has a lot more escapes/heals than the war does. While you can eat more damage as a war you can avoid and recover more on an ele.

Tom.8029:

An example of how armor affects the game. In heart of the mists, there are those 3 golems that you can attack to see how much damage you can inflict. There’s a Heavy, Medium, and Light armor golem. Now why would they have them if there wasn’t a notable difference in the attacks on each type of armor. The armor differences don’t mean you’ll die instantaneously, but they certainly play a role.

When it comes to players and not golem killing… there is a LOT more that goes into how well you’ll survive than armor type. That’s why a full glass thief (despite having lower armor) can survive better than a full glass guard…

Tom.8029:

“If you’re dying fast it’s player error (build/gear/gameplay), not the class itself.”

So learn to deal with elementalists and their vapor form. You’re going to use any ridiculous claim to support your opinion anyway. And it is ridiculous. :P

Oh I have dealt with it for months and months. Doesn’t mean it’s not the strongest downed state while others are obviously weak. That’s why they need to be balanced. Balanced =/= just deal with it lol.

Cufufalating.8479:

Personally I’d just make every classes down state the same.

Every class should have the guardians #1, #2, there should be no #3, and of course everyone has #4.

Or even let people choose their down-state skills.. I dont care. As long as everyone gets the same choices.. because at the moment it is a bit annoying that you are stuck with your classes downed skills and thats that, and of course leads to imbalance. In zerg battles ele’s downed state is better than everyones by a big margin.. in 1v1s ele’s downed skills are useless but the rangers are really good. Classes like necro are the losers and dont have good downed skills anywhere.

Should just be the same.

Gorni.1764:

Why don’t we just make all classes the same? Everybody should play warrior so there is no flame anymore. Everyone will be happy right?

I like them being different, but I would like them to also be better balanced.

You could put different spins on each while it still having the same overall function. Say if eng #2 used rocket boots that blew you backwards… that would be very close to ele #2 in effect, but have a very eng flare to it (just an example).

I very much like the idea of downstate, I like the mechanic, and I like the depth it adds to play, but it could probably use a good tweeking (but then again when has anything not?). Right now if favors zerkers in the fact that despite their low health it takes the same ammount of time to kill them, That and ya know, if you manage to finish some1 else off BOOM insta heal. People have to much health while downed, it actualy kinda makes me cry that ill never get to see an assasination because its quicker to knock a person down than it is to actualy finish them off (assuming we’re seeing some radical thief on thief action).

Edit: and lets not forget that the only support moves that help downed players are the support moves that the downed players themselves use (Ex, guardians heal). I mean really…comon…seriously?! I pump out 1000 AoE HP a second and your telling me I cant raise my buddies from the dead just by looking at them? Comooooooon

Double Edit: And it completely prevents 1 shots. I mean like REAL oneshots. Because no matter the damage it doesnt bleed over into downed state damage. Comooooooooon

Cufufalating.8479:

Personally I’d just make every classes down state the same.

Every class should have the guardians #1, #2, there should be no #3, and of course everyone has #4.

Or even let people choose their down-state skills.. I dont care. As long as everyone gets the same choices.. because at the moment it is a bit annoying that you are stuck with your classes downed skills and thats that, and of course leads to imbalance. In zerg battles ele’s downed state is better than everyones by a big margin.. in 1v1s ele’s downed skills are useless but the rangers are really good. Classes like necro are the losers and dont have good downed skills anywhere.

Should just be the same.

That is an interesting idea, have a basic list of Skills that everyone can choose from, this way it wont be so insanely unbalanced.

I think If everyone had Ele downstate #2 (or equivalent) aka immunity to stomping for x number of seconds and Warrior Downstate #3 it would sort a lot of the issues out.

Rather than just having AoE Fear, Stun, Knockback or anything a skill that just makes it so that you are immune to stomps for x number of seconds (ele) and having Vengeance as skill #3 it would be pretty solid.

For Vengeance – Your damage and “tagging” would all be reset the moment that you use the skill. So you could just wait and hope that someone you tagged dies and you get a rally or you rally yourself and hope that you tag someone who dies – this effect would have 100% chance to rally you seeing as how the “tag” sheets or what ever it is that they use would have been reset on you using the skill.

Necro downstate is simply laughable. Sure other classes have iffy Downstate skill #2 but they counter that by having semidecent 3rd skills such as Engineers with the knockback, what does Necro get? a useless Poison field that barely deals any damage and is again made useless by – Stealth, Blind, Invul.

Eng’s #2 is worse than necro’s #2 though… necro’s fear can’t be body blocked and moves the target away which delays the first stomp more (eng pull has the shortest cc time of all similar downed skills). I would put their downed states on par with each other for horridness.

Aberrant.6749:

Eng’s #2 is worse than necro’s #2 though… necro’s fear can’t be body blocked and moves the target away which delays the first stomp more (eng pull has the shortest cc time of all similar downed skills). I would put their downed states on par with each other for horridness.

Yeah but Engi downstate #3 is better than Necro downstate #3

In my opinion Downstate Skills (2 and 3 are in this order)

Downstate #2:

Thief
Ele
mesmer
Guardian

= Warrior
= Engineer
= Ranger
= Necro

Downstate #3:

Thief
Warrior
Mesmer
Engineer
Ranger
Ele
Necro

Downstate #2 Thief, Ele and Mesmer are by far the strongest, Guardian follows thanks to it being an AoE the rest are just terrible Guardian still suffers the same issues as the others but at least they can use it – Fear for example is useless against Stealth and Stability

Downstate #3 I think again Thief is top, yay for MORE stealth -.- Warrior is very strong in the right situations and Mesmer one can deal some serious damage Engineer follows with a ASoE Knockback, not amazing thanks to stealth and stability but still very useful at times. Under water Ranger pet heal is simply insane and most likely broken but on land, i dunno Rangers never seem to last long enough in downstate to actually use it, i have seen it ONCE and that was under water. Ele comes next as it is useful if they are not on top of you, damage is kinda low and it has no use if they are standing on top of you. Necro at the bottom the Damge is terrible and the poison is useless.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

…
…Oh no, they have gone stealth, making your target skill totally useless and thus them getting the kill thanks to NOT skill but simply pressing a button.

Does that sound like “skill” – Pressing ONE button for a mechanic not every class even has to be able to make the downed foes downstate skill simply useless…

Either EVERYONE should have good downstate skills or NO ONE should -So if they can’t/won’t fix the majority then they just nerf the minority which would be easier to do – Still would need to stop/fix Stealth/Stability stomping though

sounds like skill for em. knowing when to press a button and press them is skill. every downstate is actual good. the only problem is they are for different situations!

hooma.9642:

sounds like skill for em. knowing when to press a button and press them is skill. every downstate is actual good. the only problem is they are for different situations!

Sorry but you are wrong. when ONLY 3 of classes can guarantee a stomp fails, Well 2 seeing as Mesmer fails at Stealth classes as well that says something about the “balance” Otherwise they would ALL be balanced.

“Different situations” Sorry but this is wrong as well. The above goes the same for ALL modes – PvE, S/TPvP and WvW. Thief, Ele Mesmer are still at the top of downstates – why? Because they can 100% GUARANTEE a stomp fails as stated Mesmer has issues with Stealth but no problems with Stability.

Now think about Ranger, Warrior, Engineer and Necro -Blinds, Stealth, Stability ALL make there Downstate #2 the skill that is meant to DELAY you getting stomped. Hell i ahve had times where Engineer and Necro Downstate #2 fail even without the above

either EVERY class should have a GOOD downstate – or No class should, its that simple.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

hooma.9642:

sounds like skill for em. knowing when to press a button and press them is skill. every downstate is actual good. the only problem is they are for different situations!

Sorry but you are wrong. when ONLY 3 of classes can guarantee a stomp fails, Well 2 seeing as Mesmer fails at Stealth classes as well that says something about the “balance” Otherwise they would ALL be balanced.

“Different situations” Sorry but this is wrong as well. The above goes the same for ALL modes – PvE, S/TPvP and WvW. Thief, Ele Mesmer are still at the top of downstates – why? Because they can 100% GUARANTEE a stomp fails as stated Mesmer has issues with Stealth but no problems with Stability.

Now think about Ranger, Warrior, Engineer and Necro -Blinds, Stealth, Stability ALL make there Downstate #2 the skill that is meant to DELAY you getting stomped. Hell i ahve had times where Engineer and Necro Downstate #2 fail even without the above

either EVERY class should have a GOOD downstate – or No class should, its that simple.

wrong! only ele can deny the stomp through mistform. if u cant stomp a thief or mesmer in first try then its a l2p sorry dude.
how i said all class have a good downstate and for every downstate except ele exist a counter. some downstates are for small fights some for larger engagements. thats what i mean with situations. 1vs2 or 2vs2 …..

as sidenode. if u cant stomp why not dps the body? its faster!

honestly that complains are old and invalid. esp cause downstate is considered as teamaction and not last string in a duell.

edit: and i will not tell u how u do it. there are enough old threads already.

Basically what people are complaining about the Elementalist downed skill, is that their free kill is harder to kill while downed, than while alive

Sarcasm might be present.

hooma.9642:

wrong! only ele can deny the stomp through mistform. if u cant stomp a thief or mesmer in first try then its a l2p sorry dude.

Other than using stealth against Mesmer which 5 of the ther classes suffer same problem – how do you stop them from targeting you and pressing a button that teleports them and stealths from? Of course this skill is like useless most of the time thanks to it being a TERRIBLE teleport and its “randomness” always seems to make you teleport right next to yourself. That being said it CAN work and it DOES work (when you are lucky) to stop a stomp.

Same question for Thief, How do you stop it from using it’s AoE teleport and dodging the stomp? seeing as it can port ANYWHERE in range

I Am Dansker.7105:

Basically what people are complaining about the Elementalist downed skill, is that their free kill is harder to kill while downed, than while alive

Sarcasm might be present.

Sarcasm very much wasted seeing as it has NOTHING to do with that what so ever. This is from a DOWNED perspective

I thought of an interesting rework of the Downed penalty to reduce the impact on zerg fights.
Instead of reducing the hp when downed, it should reduce the max hp of the character.
So downing someone 2 times will mean, he only has about half his original hp any any backstab/treb shot/eviscerate can oneshot him from “full” hp.
The Revive orbs do something similar, so why not apply the same principle to downed?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Aberrant.6749:

Eng’s #2 is worse than necro’s #2 though… necro’s fear can’t be body blocked and moves the target away which delays the first stomp more (eng pull has the shortest cc time of all similar downed skills). I would put their downed states on par with each other for horridness.

Yeah but Engi downstate #3 is better than Necro downstate #3

In my opinion Downstate Skills (2 and 3 are in this order)

Downstate #2:

Thief
Ele
mesmer
Guardian

= Warrior
= Engineer
= Ranger
= Necro

Downstate #3:

Thief
Warrior
Mesmer
Engineer
Ranger
Ele
Necro

Downstate #2 Thief, Ele and Mesmer are by far the strongest, Guardian follows thanks to it being an AoE the rest are just terrible Guardian still suffers the same issues as the others but at least they can use it – Fear for example is useless against Stealth and Stability

Downstate #3 I think again Thief is top, yay for MORE stealth -.- Warrior is very strong in the right situations and Mesmer one can deal some serious damage Engineer follows with a ASoE Knockback, not amazing thanks to stealth and stability but still very useful at times. Under water Ranger pet heal is simply insane and most likely broken but on land, i dunno Rangers never seem to last long enough in downstate to actually use it, i have seen it ONCE and that was under water. Ele comes next as it is useful if they are not on top of you, damage is kinda low and it has no use if they are standing on top of you. Necro at the bottom the Damge is terrible and the poison is useless.

Ranger #2 > the others in the =‘s IMO as it’s an AOE… to me it’s on par with guardian.

Agreed eng downed #3 is better than necro #3… but tbh… in either case it doesn’t really matter because the eng’s #2 cc’s for such a short time it’s more likely you’ll have even less total time in the downed state than a necro.

The #2’s are critical to keeping you alive longer. If the #2 fails you’re toast right off the bat. Eng’s #3 isn’t so amazing to warrant the total rubbish that is the #2… nor is necro’s #2 so amazing to justify the rubbish #3.

One could argue that war’s #3 is good enough to balance their poor #2… but even that’s a stretch imo.

We’re comparing rubbish to rubbish… both are still rubbish in the end.

hooma.9642:

wrong! only ele can deny the stomp through mistform. if u cant stomp a thief or mesmer in first try then its a l2p sorry dude.

That’s totally dependent on what class you’re playing. Not all classes get a teleport that doesn’t interrupt your stomp animation… With mesmer not everyone has access to stealth… and any target around will do… it doesn’t need to be the stomper himself.

…thus not “l2p” if you’re on one of those classes…

Downed state/rallying is a PVE and PVP noob feature that doesn’t belong in a competitive PVP game. It should be disabled in PVP zones.

At the very least non-guard mobs (like random boars etc.) shouldn’t rally in WvW…

The rally problems are not nearly as bad in sPvP as it is in WvW imo…